Edmunds Inside Line has dropped some cash for spy photos for Honda's new Prius-fighting dedicated hybrid model. And it seems that IL and Honda are in the same boat: they've both dropped good money on something that looks identical to a Prius. Go ahead and follow the link for actual photos, or you can just feast you eyes on any image online of a current Prius, because you're basically getting the same thing either way. KGP photography caught the forthcoming Honda Hybrid undergoing hot weather tests in California's Death Valley, going head-to-head with Honda's Civic Hybrid and a current Prius. They say the new Honda is larger than a Prius and will be a global model, though its name and performance details remain under wraps. Expect its finalized looks to be very close to the fuel-cell FCX Clarity, itself something of a dead ringer for the Prius. It's obvious that Honda wants a model that screams "saving the planet" as it drives by. Still, one can't help wondering whether a hybrid Fit (the standard version of which faces high demand from eco-types) wouldn't have achieved a similar statement with a more flexible package and more familial resemblance.
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Anyone think this will come out the door at 17k or less?
The exact size compared to the Prius could be deceptive. One thing is clear; it’s got the four-bolt wheels that come from the Fit chassis, unlike the five-bolt wheels on Civics and the Prius. I believe it is Fit-based, but may be stretched a bit for better aerodynamics.
Robstar, $17k? Not in the current overheated market. I think Honda will position it delicately under the Prius, but probably not by that much.
“Robstar Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Anyone think this will come out the door at 17k or less?”
HAHAHA!! That had me grinning from ear to ear.
Paul Niedermeyer – I believe it is Fit-based, but may be stretched a bit for better aerodynamics.
Probably right, but unfortunate. The added length/weight will likely kill whatever fun-to-drive character carried over from the Fit. I’d peg $23k-$25k.
It makes perfect sense. Detroit needs to swallow their pride and just copy Toyota for now. There was a time when GM was the leader and others followed, That time is not now. The Prius is real it is a success and it doesn’t matter that there are some that hate it. The ones that love it are not buying Detroit products. Kudos to Honda for not doing “the not invented here syndrome”.
Kudos to Honda! Competition is good. I am also glad that practical hatches are coming back.
So this is the Fit hybrid they’ve been talking about? Or just based on it?
while i agree that many people buy the prius because it *now* screams “saving the planet,” that’s just a side benefit. it looks like it does because it’s as aerodynamic as a passenger- and cargo-accomodating vehicle can be (unless someone figures out some wacky miracle shape). with convergent evolution of car design, expect more of this shape as manufacturers seek efficiency.
and, yeah, a smug shape probably won’t hurt sales any.
i’m super excited for a fit-sized, prius-shaped highway cruiser. i don’t do city driving, so the hybrid bit is worthless to me, but i’d love some high-speed areo effeciency.
Citroen was doing this shape back in 1970
http://www.landcrab.net/graphics/citroen_gs.jpg
Form follows function.
Again, the hybrid system DOES help you on the highway. It allows you to get away with a Geo Metro-sized gas engine without spending the 30 seconds it would take to accelerate a midsize car up to highway speed with nothing but that motor.
The car beats everybody else on the highway, after all. Everybody forgets that.
Sticker price will be irrelevant. Honda could price it at five bucks and the dealer will add a “market value adjustment” to bring the price to whatever the market will bear. Toyota and Honda dealers are more prosperous than Fort Knox nowadays.
The local Hyundai dealer is adding a cool five grand to the MSRP for a Genesis. The car’s nice, but is it THAT nice?
Has Toyota been doing that? Cause they I just bought a Fit and they didn’t do that to me, even though they are pretty hard to find too these days.
They’re going to sell a gajillion of those, especially if they can build them as fast or faster than Toyota can currently build the Prius.
What size is this thing? Per the article:
“Expected to be smaller than the current Honda Civic and Accord hybrids” followed by,
“the new Honda Hybrid’s overall size looks larger than Toyota’s popular Prius”
Well, the Prius is arguably a mid-sized car, so where does this fit (no pun intended) in the lineup?
I’ve read the Fit hybrid will be out in 2010 and also that it’ll be later.
I’d like to think that the Prius was descended from the Honda Insight, but whatev’s.
where’s that cr-z they were teasing us with a while back? i’d take that over a prius clone.
toxicroach Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Has Toyota been doing that? Cause they I just bought a Fit and they didn’t do that to me, even though they are pretty hard to find too these days.
Whether through training or the agrremetns they have with the dealers, Toyota seems to do a pretty good job of keeping dealer greed in check. Wehn the xB first came out, it was second only ot the Prius in fewest days on the lot, yet I didn’t see any dealer price hikes. It’s pretty much the same for the Prius. Toyota says that the MSRP they put on the vehicle allows a good profit for the dealer and that should be enough. However, don’t expect to bargain the price down any.
@NICKNICK about highway speeds and hybrid fuel efficiency
All numbers are EPA 2008 hwy only
First lets compare hybrid vs non hybrid
Camry manual or auto = 31
Camry hybrid = 34
Civic manual = 34
Civic auto = 36
Civic hybrid = 45
In the case of the Camry the engine size is the same, maybe they make it up in transmission gearing.
In the case of the Civic the non hybrid gets a 1.8 liter 4 cyl engine, the hybrid gets a 1.3 liter 4 cyl engine. 1.8 vs 1.3 is a noticeable difference in my book.
anyway comparing the 2008 EPA hwy numbers for anything I could find non hybrid above 30 MPG or so vs the usual suspects we have
Prius 45
Civic Hybrid 45
Smart fortwo 41 (coupe or convertible)
Mini Cooper manual 37
Corolla manual 37
Civic auto 36
Yaris manual 36
Corolla auto 35
Yaris auto 35
Fit (either) 34
Civic manual 34
Mini Cooper auto 34
Matrix manual 33
Matrix auto 31
Hopefully that makes it obvious how much the hybrid gains you even in highway driving.
Anyway, that’s not a Honda caught testing. I don’t know what Edmunds is thinking.
Geez, you’re not kidding — what an utter Prius copy!
It sure doesn’t seem to be “bigger than Prius” in terms of interior room — look at the people sitting in the thing. It doesn’t look like it’s giving them boatloads of room around them. At the very least, it appears to have a higher seating position than Prius. Which would be very anti-Honda-ish….
I know sub $17k might sound silly to alot of you, but my main rides are an 18mpg car (winter use only, almost paid off) and a 38-48mpg motorcycle (paid off). Since I basically only use the car in the winter, and I don’t use it daily in any season, any hybrid would have to come out EXTREMELY cheap for it to save me $ (or gas would have to skyrocket).
Ah well, maybe I shouldn’t be in the market for a car?
That really does look a lot like the FCX Clarity. Who knows, maybe this hybrid will just be called the Clarity, without the “FCX” designation.
looks like a 4-door insight to me ;)
and the Volt by GM is no where in sight…
You are 100% sure it’s a Honda?
@Wunsch: agreed, the styling is a dead ringer, spinning the 360 degree view below to compare the two vehicles. The FCX Clarity is a bit larger than a Prius at 190″ long, 72″ wide, though.
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/exterior-360-view.aspx
Fellas, I think Edmunds and you have all been fooled.
That’s NOT a Honda. It’s a black Prius with a new hood, new doors, and a new hatch. Look at the windshield rake, the angle of the B-pillar, and the angle of the hatch pillar.
Just like I can recognize the face of my own mother or my friends and acquaintences, I don’t have to measure those roof angles to recognize that it’s a Prius!
Now, the question in my mind is WHO’S Prius is it…Toyota’s, or Honda’s?
Could it be a 2010 Toyota? Or could it be a Honda-purchased and modded Prius; maybe in a pre-design phase, or maybe in a battery technology test of some sort?
It wouldn’t be the first time a manufacturer bought a competitor’s car and tore it apart or used it as a test platform for new technology.
Tnink about it, the Prius form-factor is successful. The Prius frame has a low drag coefficient, it already has a place for batteries, and a ready-made pathway for electrical wiring, as well as an engine bay that has the room for a hybrid ICE-Electric drive.
I don’t think this is a next generation Toyota Prius. For one thing, why would Toyota change wheel bolt patterns? As others have said, there are not many shapes which meet the aerodynamic and packaging considerations of a Prius class vehicle, and the market expects a Prius contender to look like … a Prius. Japanese companies have long made clone products when it suits them.
Having Toyota and Honda duke it out for sales of this class of vehicle will be great for the consumer. Too bad about all those other automakers who aren’t even playing in the game.
ZoomZoom, You’re not looking carefully enough. It is a Honda. Wheels, compare the front of the car with the front of the Civic hybrid – very similar. The rear quarter has Clarity written all over it, and the rear door shape and cut-out is all different from the Prius. As several have said, a very good aerodynamic shape tends to follow certain lines.
I can’t see it, fellas. It’s easy to change door, fender, and quarter panel cutouts. Not so easy to change the skeleton. And this skeleton is EXACTLY the same.
What about my other suggestion? Could it be a Prius purchased and chopped up by Honda techs for a battery, engine, and wind test, maybe not even planned for production?
Haha, or maybe a hoax. Quick, somebody get on this and check Snopes!
Maybe I am way off base but I think it would be possibe to make a decent car that gets 45 mpg
without the expense and weight of batteries. If so
it would certainly be a lot more fun to drive.
In my opinion, and i am certainly no auto engineer,
the hybrid is designed to scream save the planet
more than to save gas.
I can see where regenerative braking saves energy.
I would like to see a car that uses batteries and
a motor for just this purpose – no other generator
or big bank of batteries on board.
Am I nuts?
I dunno morbz, but I’d assume that if Toyota could have made a non-hybrid midsize that got 45 on the highway they would have. Or someone would have. I mean hell my Fit gets less than that, and its lighter.
Make mine electric so I don’t have to buy anymore fuel. I’m ready to kick the habit.
I’ve got my current ride running E85(cheaper) till I switch to electric.
Speaking of E85, I wonder if Ford’s new EcoBoost engines will be tuned to run higher boost pressures when E85 is in the tank and lower pressures with plain old gasoline? The only advantage of E85 is it’s naturally high octane rating and subsequent resistance to pre-detonation. A real flex-fuel vehicle might be able to take some advantage of that fact. Current flex-fuel vehicles get horrible economy when running E85 thanks to the fuel’s low energy density. A portion of that can be gotten back, in theory, with very high compression ratios. Variable physical compression ratios are hard to do, but varying the turbocharger parameters is much easier.
Don’t forget the Jetta TDI that gets 41mpg Highway. The EPA numbers tend to skew a bit low on oil burners.
“I can see where regenerative braking saves energy.
I would like to see a car that uses batteries and
a motor for just this purpose – no other generator
or big bank of batteries on board.”
Some BMWs have “Brake Energy Regeneration” along with auto start-stop.
RedStapler, as they do on hybrids. Before I left on this business trip, my tank mileage on the new Prius was 53.6 – mostly highway.
That car looks as much Honda…some giveaways include the 4-lug wheels, the grill’s emblem shape (4 sided, wider on top than bottom), shape of the headlights and grill are similiar to the new Accord but just not as overwrought, and the rear quarter-panel shape as well as the license plate surround are very similiar to previous Hondas…especially the new FCX. In fact, after this comment I googled the FCX and this car looks like a 7/8-scale version of the HCX.
I wonder if they’ll call this the HCX.
Dang, it is about as ugly as the Prius.
It is definitely a Honda. As others noted, the shape of the badge, also there is a Honda emblem on the front passenger window (lower left corner), and the wiper blades are from a company I previously worked for which doesn’t supply to Toyota.
Maybe I am way off base but I think it would be possibe to make a decent car that gets 45 mpg
without the expense and weight of batteries.
Can’t be done. It is not possible to build a car with modern safety equipment and adequate power that could get 45 mpg and decent performance from a conventional engine.
The only solutions would involve far less power or less weight. That’s a no go, either way.
Peeps curious about any 45mpg non-hybrids might be interested in the Alfa Mito and Fiat 500, both of which are making their way to our shores:
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-alfa9-2008jul09,0,1320097.story
I think the Alfa’s dead sexy. I’m definitely going to take a look.