In 2002, my friend Patrick threw a glass ashtray at me in a bar in Boston. “Berzerkowitz!,” he barked, celebrating the successful hit right in the middle of my forehead. That’s how he said hi. The next morning, once he sobered up, and my face still hurt like a sonofabitch, we went for a ride in the car he rented for the weekend. “It’s the most generic car I have ever driven,” Pat told me from the driver’s seat of a Hyundai XG350L.
That was when entry level-luxury Infinitis, Acuras, and Lexuses were front wheel drive, and packed just north of 200 horsepower. It didn’t matter that the Hyundai’s wood trim was horrible or that the seats were dirty pleather. It was a Hyundai, and nobody was going to take it seriously even if, on paper, it toed-up with the competition for close to ten grand less.
And now that Hyundai’s overall rep has transitioned from punch line to resolute not-that-bad-ness, the Korean bra
nd will again try to sell you a cut-price luxury car in the form of the Genesis, a name that reveals a marketing department with way too much power and/or a blinding amount of engineering arrogance. The problem is that neither the arrogance nor the marketing department has done a very good job.
The Genesis looks like a luxury car. I think. It’s big, it has luxury car lines. As it should, thanks to a rear wheel-drive (RWD) chassis and RWD proportions. But what’s stopping the Genesis from looking like an Infiniti M35? A Lexus GS? An E-Class? An Acura I-forget-the-letters? Nothing at all. Nothing makes it any different, either. There isn’t even a logo on the front—just a Merc-Benzian chrome grill. Usually, people looking for a safe luxury buy don’t just want the look; they want the badge and the brand. Hence the reason Lexus does so well, in spite of selling Lexuses.
There’s very little in the appearance, inside or out, that gives away the Genesis’ ruse as a big luxury car. The fit
and finish of the interior is top shelf. The materials, including a leather-covered dash with de rigeur exposed stitching looks contemporary—even beautiful. Gadgets and toys abound although such niceties have never attracted me to any car. Only some very tacky, shit-class wood trim on the doors reminds that you’re in a Hyundai, which is supposed to be a knock off of “better” cars.
The Genesis doesn’t drive as you’d suppose. With Hyundai’s (probably self-perpetuated) reputation of knocking-off Toyotas (so to speak), I was expecting nothing short of a cushy, neo-Cadillac ride. But it’s not. Isolating, yes, and extremely quiet. But the Genesis’ suspension is more Germanic sportster than Japanese recliner. Steering feedback, brisk handling and tight turning capabilities combine to make this a surprisingly sharp drive.
Pistonheads are all abuzz about the Korean’s V8 (a review for which you’ll have to wait). Meanwhile, the Genesis’ destined-to-be-default 3.8-liter V6 is rated at some 290 horsepower. That makes for some quick acceleration from a standstill. But like so many of these “overboosted” V6 engines shooting for high horsepower bragging rights, the 3700lb four-door runs out of puff once in motion (i.e., 264 lb·ft of torque at 4,500 rpm). It would certainly be an error to call the Genesis V6 a slow car, but it ain’t quick neither.
Hyundai’s Super Bowl ads said it offered the size and power of a 7-Series for the price of a 3-Series. If we all bought cars on paper descriptions, that might be an enticing argument. But when push comes to your bank account, how in good faith can you choose the V6 Genesis over one of its stellar competitors? Because it’s bigger? Or because it might be a few grand less to buy?
Even with a fairly strong residual estimate (around 50 percent), you’re going to take an acid rain shower when resale time comes. And Hyundai’s “aggressive” 24 month lease program—$399/month with about $2200 down—is barely better than a deal on a nicely loaded Benz C300. And unlike the Mercedes, which reeks of permanence in its badge and solid construction, I cannot come up with a way to call the Genesis interesting.
I’m sure the 375 horsepower V8 will liven things up when it goes on sale next month (though I’d rather forego the luxury, get a Pontiac G8 GT, and pocket several thousand bucks). But in the meantime, Hyundai has reprised its role as the firm that can build the most generic car on the road. Just like the XG350 that my ashtray-throwing friend lambasted, this is without doubt Hyundai’s best car yet. But it’s not special. Without the right or indeed any luxury brand logo, it will make for a tough sell. And a questionable buy.
Nice work Justin, the badge issue really is the crux of this cars problem. Like VW with the Phaeton, even if the product is good, it’s not easy breaking into the luxury segemnt.
No Stars?
Anyway, my IT manager has ordered one of these in black on black. He says he was pretty impressed with it when he test drove it. Should get it this week. Got him out of his Crown Vic.
I’d like to think that intended demographic for this are those that would rather buy an Avalon than a G35 if you know what I mean. And given the choice between this and an Avalon…I’ll eat mildly spicy Kimchi instead of a sushi roll sans wasabi.
Hyundai sells their cars with hood badges in Korea, next time I am over there I should get a badge for my car.
I have owned a XG350 for 4 years and I am very happy with it. I got a large comfortable car with loads of standard features for a fraction of the price of the competition. I don’t see it’s shortcomings as issues to be concerned about because I paid 21K for it new rather than 27-35K for something else.
What’s funny about the XG350 is the reviewers all hated it and lambasted the car but every owner I met in the past 4 years is very happy with the car. Either we are all disillusioned or maybe we know it was a good car for the money, and a better deal than most. It’s rare to see someone actually praise their car and be excited about owning it years later. I wonder why?
The Azera was a nice step up for Hyundai but the price increase over the XG350 put it in competition with too many other cars. The Genesis comes out at a time of auto frugality that will slow sales a bit. Maybe if they make a hybrid version?
I think the big three in Japan should worry about Hyundai more than European companies taking sales from their mainstays. Better warranties and satisfied customers make for repeat sales.
seems more editorial than review…
though, i guess that’s ok… – i was just hoping for more…
as for the actual car itself, i’m under the impression that the combination of SIZE and luxury (along with RWD) is supposed to be its selling point…
thus, comparing to a [relatively] tiny c-class or the like, may only be appropriate for a small percentage of buyers…
I have owned two Hyundais that have been near flawless and one Mercedes that I would seriously like to forget.
I have owned both Mercedes and BMW and, while they were great driving cars, their reliability was terrible.
The Mercedes cost the most and was, with doubt, the worst car I have ever owned. Four trips to the dealer just to get the AC working! I have a list as long as my arm of failed components on that car, including a split dashboard on a car that was garaged. The best thing I could say for Mercedes was that they did stand behind their warranty.
The BMW was better, but still had too many small failures.
I don’t care about badges and I’m not out to impress anyone. I simply want a car that works without having a dealer next door.
Can’t say I ever saw anything special about the looks of the M35. As for the C-Class and G8: different oranges to this car’s apple. Either you need the size and/or sporty feel, or you don’t.
The closest comparison to this car in terms of price, performance, and feel might be the Chysler 300. After that, the Infiniti M.
I’d like to get a quick read on initial reliability. If you know someone who buys one, please send them here:
http://www.truedelta.com/reliability.php
I think the car is a huge leap forward for the brand. Cars like this, and the new Gensis will make people take another serious look at Hyundai as an option. The 97.99% of people who buy this car will go to and from work and on occasional road trips. This car will do it with flying colors.
I’d drive this over a C-class anyday, but I have a bias against Mercedes..
As far as the reviews I’ve read are concerned, this looks to be a huge leap forward for Hyundai. Especially when you look back at what they’ve been through over the past 20 years. However, I think they need to work on some of their other offerings, notably, the Elantra. Maybe some of the suspension magic worked into the Genesis will trickle down to that car.
I think this car will do well for people who aren’t buying to brag about badges. It’s a nice, quiet and comfortable car that can take backroads when needed although not in the same vein as a 5 Series.
Well-written review, although it seems as if you did not want to like this car from the beginning.
@DFT-3:
Quite the opposite actually. I was hoping it would be a real genuine luxury car alternative. Instead Hyundai just built a regular luxury car, outstanding in no ways.
Justin, you have to start somewhere. I think perhaps we are holding the bar a little too high for Hyundai’s first venture into this segment. I would gladly purchase this vehicle if I wanted a simple luxury car.
RoweAS
I would gladly purchase this vehicle if I wanted a simple luxury car.
Isn’t a “simple luxury car” an oxymoron these days?
RF, I love you man, but you really shouldn’t snipe over that one. But then again, I’m not a real Modo, I’m a Quasimodo ; )
With RWD, this Hyundai should at least avoid the V6 Sonata’s FWD problems of massive torque steer and wheelspin on takeoff. A rented sample I had a while back was supremely generic without other major vices. An Accent I had as another rental a few years earlier had a speedo cable that screamed bloody murder at speeds over 15 mph. I think it was trying to tell me something …
I’ll give the big “H” a high five for this. Bland luxury has always had a niche in this country. GM has been selling such for years (but selling less and less). As a competitor for loaded Camry’s and Accords Genesis might make it’s case too. Combine this with American’s love of a bargain and they should steal some of the General’s business if not the Japanese makes. Also, I’ll second it’s a good start and a platform they can build on. The down side is it’s not a good market right now for a large V8 (or even V6) sedan. Not a car I want but a car with that might work out for them. I do think it would have been better to provide a car like this a bit more down market. I guess we’ll see.
You still couldn’t convince me to buy a Hyundai.
I’m with Justin, gimme the G8 and I’ll throw the extra cash in my IRA (which is suffering right now).
Unless you’re upstate NY or Santa Monica, I just don’t get the whole badge snobbery thing. Even then, if you get shit for driving a reliable, comfortable, FUN whip that’s as enjoyable at 7/10ths as the the guy driving the car with the Roundel or peace sign on the hood, maybe you should lighten up or get some new homeys.
I would have been a Gen 2 Lincoln LS buyer, but in Ford’s infinite wisdom, they dropped it like a sack of potatoes in favor of… an MK something or other.
I don’t need no stinkin’ badges.
JB,
It is outstanding in one way – price.
Realistically, without serious shortcomings, it should be seen as a value leader. For people who want a big, luxurious car, but don’t want to pay for status, it seems a good buy from your review.
I am not surprised at hearing that someone switched from a crown vic to one of these. I see how it could appeal in many of the same ways. If it were body on frame, they would have a shot at the taxi market.
I would hope that by “raising the bar” Hyundai will force other manufacturers to begin to create more unique vehicles. I’m so bored with the obsession with making a vehicle that’s “perfect”. A simple review for a simply boring car. Makes me wanna put on my anti-microbial mask, pull down the sun visor, and join the faceless invasion. All this car needs is a box of Queenex™ peeking out the rear window.
This is why we accuse car reviewers of judging cars by their badge, giving BMW’s a free pass, etc. Don’t feel like you need to tell us what our brand preferences are, we can decide that for ourselves and turn to you for information about the car itself. You say it drives well, is well finished but has bad wood trim, is only adequately powered, and the of the review is mostly editorial in nature. And it costs about the same to lease as a car one and a half sizes smaller.
I look forward to learning more about the car if you test the V8 version.
@Landcrusher:
It’s outstanding in price? At $36,000? Or $39k to get one with navigation? Maybe if you see it as a 5-Series competitor, but even Hyundai doesn’t claim that.
@Carlismo:
I’m not judging it by its badge. Frankly I couldn’t care less – although dealing with the Hyundai dealers in the NY area would make me want to shoot myself. And ME giving BMW a free pass? You’re joking, right?
Shoppers, however, will care about the badge. Only the kind of person that posts on TTAC will say “I don’t care if it’s a Hyundai, I’ll pay $36,000 for it.”
As for me, I’m judging it as what it is: a completely generic experience. I don’t mean generic as in it has no logo on the hood (though it doesn’t). I mean Generic in that it is just a $30-something car, average in every way.
I would have run through the “details” of how it drives in the review, but it would have been the most boring, consumer reports writeup you’ve ever seen:
The handling is solid and there is a reasonable amount of grip. It’s not a blast to drive, and when you finally break the rear tires it’s not exciting. The suspension is fairly flat in corners, probably comparable to a Chrysler 300C. It has more steering feedback than a Toyota Avalon, less feedback than a Pontiac G8.
The seats are comfortable enough, not as much as the Ford Flex but far better than a rock hard BMW seat. It runs quietly, not as quiet as a Lexus but far more than a Chrysler 300. The quality of the leather is decent, not rubbery or plasticky, but also not as nice as other cars.
The Lexicon stereo is on par with the upgraded stereos in other $30-$40k cars. Nice sound quality, even at louder volumes and when tested with reference CD of Rolling Stones, Vivaldi, Charlie Parker, Pink Floyd, and Star Wars theme.
The visibility is ok, though the rear headrests block the view out the back. Ingress and egress is about average, with the back seat on par with other large sedans (Chrysler 300, Avalon, Pontiac G8, Nissan Maxima, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus).
I’m happy to tell you anything else, but I’m afraid it will be more of the same.
The “flying vagina” grill makes me think of sex…with flying vaginas.
Has anyone seen the Sonata ad where they have the car rotating on a giant turntable, then the turntable gets stuck? Worst. Car. Commercial. Ever. Such astounding self-pwnage that basically says:
1. Hyundai’s cars are too anonymous to be recognizable
2. Hyundai can’t even build a turntable without mechanical glitches.
The brand still has a ways to go to convince us they can build a credible “luxury” car.
I agree with Justin: Gimme the G8 GT with all the fixins instead.
Justin,
Okay, how do you compare it to a fully loaded Accord at 30k? Or what do you think ARE the proper competitors?
I thought this thing WAS supposed to be a reduced price 7, not a 5.
My, my lots of “I don’t care about the badge” types round these parts. Maybe the claims are all true, but SOMEONE (or many someones) is responsible for the low residual value on cars without prestigious nameplates.
This is the part that confuses me about the Genesis (and maybe the V8 with a sportier suspension would clear this up) – Who cares that the Genesis is RWD if the ride and drive dynamics are pure squishy Avalon/Lexus ES? Anyone who seeks out a ‘rear-drive car’ for drivability issues is not going to ever be happy with the handling of this car. Anyone who wants a car with this kind of floating luxo-feel is not going to care which set of wheels are connected to the motor.
Is Hyundai, who has seemed very smart in the last decade, starting to chase status in a non-productive way? Even if the Genesis is wildly successful, isn’t it just working them into a market niche that is killing off many of the non-top-tier companies (yo, Oldsmobuick) in it?
Your friend is not so nice.
@Landcrusher:
The Accord is actually more fun to drive, but in my opinion cannot compete in terms of the interior, exterior, etc. The Genesis is far superior. Mileage is of course a bit different, what, about 21/30 for the Accord V6 and 17/25 for this Genesis? But you know, so what. I don’t so much care – I’m sure others probably do.
Then again, a loaded Accord for $30k has the equipment you need to spend $39,000 to get on a Genesis.
The Genesis certainly can’t hold a candle to the 7-Series. The 5-Series makes for an interesting matchup. I’d take the Genesis, even if the prices were the same, because I think the 5-Series is a mess outside and the driving experience is not to my liking at all.
Ultimately, I think people usually shop on the basis of what they can afford first. That’s just my own theory, but I think people will look at whatever they like in their price bracket – that’s why before buying my VW GTI, I cross shopped a Mercury Milan, a Ford Explorer, Nissan Xterra, and Dodge Charger.
Justin, I would like to thank you for writing a great review, and having the cojones for writing what you exactly feel and not what the Hyundai fanboys want you to write.
The idea that the Genesis is a generic, boring inside and out luxery car with a somewhat questionable argument for value just makes them squirm.
Justin:
true enough…
for mere transportation in a nice, large, comfy package, the accord EX-L 4 cylinder would do a more than adequate job…
with sat-nav and an automatic for 28k…
RF- It’s unfortunate there are no “simple luxury cars” anymore
Justin- good review, like almost all other cars I think the Genesis’ success will be based on reliability and a little bit on what Consumer Reports thinks of it. It could grab the MKS/DTS/300 Limited buyer looking for a bargain or the Avalon/Maxima buyer looking for something different.
I really don’t think being RWD is all that much of an advantage but I guess some people do.
How does this compare to the MKS?
I’d probably get a Merc C300 also but I’d be OK with a smaller car.
To rockit: I’ve got to question the notion that ripping on a Hyundai earns the writer a commendation for courageously resisting peer pressure.
As for the car, I’ve inspected the inside of every car in the Accord/Camry class in a lot of detail. The Genesis’ appointments are a good two classes up from any of them. One of the prerequisites for a luxury sedan is – who’d have guessed? – luxury. On that count, the Genesis delivers. And as soon as the novelty’s worn off and the thing is selling for thousands under list, its price advantage over anything truly comparable will scream out even louder.
I wish I were doing as well as all the posters who consider price irrelevant in car comparisons. Anyone who thinks the Lexus ES measures up to the Genesis should read the ES review on this site. Then name me anything else within $5,000 of this car that measures up across the board in the luxury attributes of room, ride, materials, equipment level, smoothness and power. I’ve got a feeling it’ll be a pretty short discussion.
Does this make me a Hyundai “fanboy”? For the record, I own a Nissan, a Honda and no Hyundais. But if wanting to have a nice car and still keep some of my money makes me someone else’s idea of a chump, guilty as charged.
Justin,
That gives me a much better idea what to expect. Also, I agree on economic cross shopping, good point.
I have had thoughts of buying a loaded G8 for my mom who drives only about 3k a year. The idea being that I would possibly have a low mileage classic in 20 years or so when she hangs up her keys. It may be the last pontiac of it’s kind.
The problem is that her ’89 Maxima has a rotting interior due to her parking it in a sunny lot all day. I decided the G8 would do know better, and abandoned the idea. When I save up the funds, I may have to ask the best and brightest.
Great review.
This car sounds like the one Buick / Lexus should be making. Maybe Hyundai is correct in thinking the market for an O.K. all-around car is being neglected by everyone (G35 to hard, IS350 to hard, C-Class to small, 3-series to expensive w/ options and small, CTS-to hard, Buick FWD, Acura FWD and to hard, etc.)
Wait does Lexus make the ES anymore? The Genesis seems to be a RWD Lexus ES…
the only reason hyundai didnt put a badge on the grill is cuz they want people to think and wonder “wow, wat kind of car is that”? beause if you notice,kia does the same thing with their wanna b amanti. its all about perception people. but overal i dont think this is going to sell. i just checked some dealers in my area (southern cali) and they are charging 38-40k. maybe even more. they are crazy
Personally the H logo is pathetic anyway. It would class down the car. It seems as if you were looking in a lava lamp stoned and said that’s it there the logo! I am glad they kept it off. Buzz on.
So we don’t want you to know it’s a Hyundai? Oldsmobile tried that. The only place it said Olds was on the radio cassette slot. Bigger question is if most cars didn’t have badges or we swaped badges would people know on some of the less distinctive ad. I totally agree that the brand is still an issue – The price of a 3 series for a Hyundai?
And one last thing Berkowitz, If my uncle Lenny Berkowitz (real guy) was in a bar and he friend through an ashtray at him,his wife would have said “don’t fight, play nice.”
A quick check shows that the base Genesis will go for something over 32k and a loaded Accord is a little over 30k. I’ve not broken down the options but I see the Accord has a Nav system for example. However, for the bland near luxury buyer the rear wheel drive and less spastic cabin of the Genesis might score a few points. Maybe the lower line Acuras are more so the competition?
You mention the price for $36,000 ++ for this car. I’m sure that’s true (MSPR), but what will these eventually sell for in the ‘Real World’. Say in a couple months after release? Like every other Hyundia, I’m betting there will be deep deep discounts. In other words, I’m betting these will compete with large cars in the high 20’s/low 30’s. A loaded Accord/Camrey, Avalon, Chrysler 300, Acura TL, Buick Lucerne, and maybe a couple discounted Lincolns. This is where you have to ask the question, “Is it better than these?” Right or wrong, very few people that want a BMW, Merc., Audi, Lexus will take a look at this car. And it ‘will be’ priced much, much lower. (i.e. – See what you can get a Sonota for compared to MSRP)
Justin,
You actually considered buying a Chrysler product at some point? I almost fell over when I read that. :-)
@npbheights:
HA! I hate the interior and the image, but I love the Charger. Hemi and old Benz platform, and you can even get the SRT style seats with the road and track package (at least that’s what it was called when i was shopping for it).
Oh and then there are the Chrysler dealers. Which might be worse than Hyundai. I’m not sure. Race to the bottom.
I give kudos to Justin for the mopar lust. I’ve considered the Charger/Magnum myself for some of the same reasons he stated.
For the home market, this is so there is a domestic luxury car for Korean execs.
For everyone else, it is a nice Buick. No style, bland anonymity that is banal if anything. I’d get an M35 over this any day of the week.
Oh, this replaces the Equus? Makes sense.
I continue to be amazed at Hyundai’s ability to continuously upgrade their products. 15 years ago, who would have guessed that Hyundai are building products to rival a 5 series. I love the way they have integrated elements from both mercedes and infiniti in this current semi-lux model.
This, by the way, is a totally unfair comparison: 39k for a large, handsome Hyundai with 290 hp, compared to about 51k for a comparably equipped, 230hp 528i?
This is a no contest comparison. If I’ve learned anything from Louis Vuitton, it’s that most people are very happy with a knockoff that looks and functions pretty close to the original for a fraction of the price.
Compare this car to any non-premium brand’s flagship and it doesn’t look like that much of a value anymore. I haven’t driven either, but it’s pricing is on par with the Maxima, which also has a nice interior and a 290-hp engine. Or compare it to an Avalon? The sense of value will disappear.
Personally, luxury cars are about how they make you feel. I’d feel like a penny-pinching poser, not a smart financially-savvy person, driving the Genesis.
If you’re not rich, drive an Avalon or something, not this S-class wannabe. It’s much cooler not to pretend.
Thank you for highlighting that the lease deal on this car isn’t very good. $399/mo w/ $2k down? You can (and I just did) lease a 328 w/ sport package or a C300 for $420-450 w/ ~ $3,500 down. Would you rather pay the extra 30 bucks a month for a Bimmer or a Hyundai?
There is a huge market for a docile luxury car. Buick sold millions of them through the 1970’s and Lexus sold millions of them in the 1990’s and 2000’s. I would say this competes with ES300 but without the extra cost Lexus badge. For those who prefer to keep our net worth private,this would be a good choice. For that reason, I was surprised that the Phaeton didn’t sell. After all,there are a lot of people who prefer not to ‘show’
Sorry, but this will have a good run for maybe a year and that’s it.
Between Honda getting shellacked for their anonymous hybrids, to everyone I can recall from VW to Infiniti getting pushed to the side for innocuous luxury cars, this 1st gen nee-ostentatious Hyundai has no long-term chance in hell.
Whether it’s got a Q or an XG in the name doesn’t matter. The question remains whether the car in question is dressed to impress. Bland homologations simply don’t work.
Looks utterly generic and has a smidge of usual Hyundai ugliness in it as well.
The Klingon Forehead grille is dorky.
“the badge issue really is the crux of this cars problem”. No it’s not. It’s the generic sameness to most newer cars. Nothing different or unique. Hyundai has been getting better by aping Toyota (especially interiors, but going upmarket(sort of)to compete with the class leaders is going to be stretch. I have an ’08 Chrysler 300C AWD that’s in it’s 4th yr. of production and still looks distinctive. This type of car is where Hyundai will find it’s competition.
I think it’s a really elegant looking car. Like a W124 300E, it’s nice and understated. But no Stick means I’m not interested.
Generic sameness and nothing new or unique generally sells better than “different”
Different usually equals “strange” or “ugly”
The badge is the issue. If this were a Lexus, Mercedes, Acura, Audi etc, there would be no argument that it would do well.
I have an ‘08 Chrysler 300C AWD that’s in it’s 4th yr. of production and still looks distinctive. This type of car is where Hyundai will find its competition.”
Sorry, but after four years of production, I still think that the 300C (and just about all current Chrysler products) are plug ugly.
If the Genesis is bland, then I’ll take bland.
I may be in the minority, but I hate this car. In my opinion, only strivers who desire a MB S-class knockoff would drive this car. It’s the perfect national symbol for those in our country who want the very best, but can only afford the Walmart version.
I don’t consider myself a badge snob (and have a string of Fords to prove it), but $36K for a Hyundai? Come on. This is why Nissan created Infiniti, and Honda created Acura, and Toyota created Lexus: nobody was going to pay that kind of price for that kind of car. There are times when adding a brand is appropriate. This is one of them.
boredlawstudent- you hate this car? Are you saying that this car shouldn’t exist and if anyone you knew bought one you would refuse to be acquainted with them?
I wonder if a new brand would be even possible these days. Acura, Lexus and Infiniti were created in the 80s before the internet let everyone know who owns what and exactly what’s in a car years before it ever goes on sale. Nowadays we decide whether or not a car is any good before it’s ever produced. (Volt)
Justin Berkowitz: Oh and then there are the Chrysler dealers. Which might be worse than Hyundai. I’m not sure. Race to the bottom.
Dealers are hit and miss. My Chrysler dealer is above average in both sales and service. Our Toyota dealer is more of a pain in the a$$.
The Genesis sounds like it will be a great value for someone buying it used.
I agree with Justin on this car. Reading about it and seeing one in person I was left severely underwhelmed. Don’t get me wrong – it’s definitely a nice car. I just have a hard time getting my head around who would buy one.
For low to mid 30s the only appeal this car has over a G35, C300, CTS, IS or 3-series is its sheer size. It’s for the buyer who can afford an entry luxury car but really wants the 7-Series and who either doesn’t care about brand names or will think the Genesis is “just as good”.
I am a buyer who considers value important. My friends ask me all the time why I traded a Mercedes for an Infiniti. I tell them at my price point the “Nissan” was just a better value. Maybe Hyundai can pull off the same thinking.
Boredlawstudent, “In my opinion, only strivers who desire a MB S-class knockoff would drive this car. It’s the perfect national symbol for those in our country who want the very best, but can only afford the Walmart version”
How about the opposite. I see far too many people who buy the real deal that are mortgaged up to their eyeballs or lease a MB or a BMW etc when they should be driving the cheaper knockoff. There are plenty of people that are simply frugal and in many cases wealthy (and they often got that way by being frugal) that would buy this car. I think you could make a case or a counter argument that BMW is the national symbol of people who want the very best and should be shopping at Walmart.
Hyundai has largely established themselves by appealing to value shoppers. I know plenty of rich people that own Hyundais. The people who you are talking about wouldn’t be caught dead in this car even though they probably should buy it over the real deal.
Not for nothing but the Hyundau brand does sit higher on the automotive food chain than Pontiac, Chysler, Mitsubishi, Mercury, or even Buick today.
Personally If I were to care what people would say or think about the car I was drving I would definitely choose a Hyundai over any of those brands. All of these half-a$$ lack-luster brands want to sell folks cars priced above $30,000!
Unlike Hyundai NONE of these brands have any proper feeder products like the Sonota and Santa Fe.
Unlike a 300c the Genesis dose not appear to be worthless without the v8.
Compared to the G8 the Hyundai has class were the G8 looks like it was designed to appeal to a Nascar wannabe.
For folks cross shopping the Genesis with any of the FWD competition the feel of a RWD car WILL HAVE A VERY NOTICABLE A DIFFERENCE(advantage for many)!
Paradoxically, a C-class benz is one of the worst cars you could drive IF you care what people think. Today the C-class is the poster-child automobile for the wannabe rich posser crowd that can’t afford a “real” Benz. I don’t know about Justin, but the HORRIBLE reputation of the C-class is legendary! It is a cheap feeling, nasty little car designed and marketed to folks that shop for the badge and are not concerned about real quality.
@ShermanLin:
Re: the C-Class
Have you driven the new one? Seriously, it’s like night and day with the old C-Class.
In any event, I was just tossing out an example in terms of entry luxury cars in the article to illustrate that Hyundai’s self-titled “aggressive” lease program is totally average for the field.
In terms of these near-luxury or entry-luxury cars, I think everybody has some they really like and some they really do not. For this car, the biggest advantages it offers are (1) a V8 for under $40k and (2) space.
Interesting review and comments.
I do see a few knocks on Hyundai quality, but those must be old memories. I have 112,000 on my 2002 Elantra and it’s been the most reliable car I’ve ever owned. And my dealer has been very good too. I still can’t believe I bought that thing for just over $12,000 when new.
Of course now I’m looking at Chargers.
Reading the comments here, I’d say that Hyundai is the new brand of choice for “early adopters”… people who have arrived but don’t need a hood ornament to show it.
I know 2 people that own XG350s, and one with an Azera. All of them are fairly wealthy Seattle software entrepreneurs who could afford any car they wanted – but they don’t care about cars, they don’t want to spend money on cars, and they never ever want to deal with car repairs. They want a quiet and absolutely reliable transportation appliance that will drive them from home to the cube farm, past the grade school, them back home, with the minimum of fuss and effort. They all love their Hyundias – and for them, even a Azure is a better car than any unreliable German luxury sedan – or image and ego drenched Lexus. If the reliability is as good as current Hyundia offerings, I think the excellent interior of the Genesis will slowly pull in more and more generic luxury buyers until Hyundia is an accepted (if perhaps not celebrated) member of the upwardly mobile automobile world.
Hyundai will probably have to do what Toyota did, and create their own luxury brand before something like the Genesis will be taken seriously. But I’ve got to hand it to them, they really put a lot of effort into the Genesis. Give them a few more years and they’ll be up there with Honda.
http://www.buyingadvice.com/
This car is an enthusiast’s worst nightmare; even a luxury enthusiast.
Why would anyone pay mid 30s for a Hyundai, let alone even remotely close to 40k, when there are superior cars for just a few grand more? I could name them, but it would take a while.
This is the perfect car for the person who wants to announce loudly that “I’m too dumb to have sprung for the M35, Audi A6 or Pontiac G8, and let me know if you’d like to buy this from me for 33% of the price I paid in two years.”
Y-A-W-N.
The interior on the 23kish Malibu is more exciting and better kit, and the exterior looks like a cut and paste of at least 4 different models.
C’mon Korea, do you have a creative brain cell in the cranium?
This is the future of Buick, I guess. But Buick doesn’t have unfixable suspension noise, while even Buick has less suspension slop, and no electrical gremlins.
No thanks. I’d rather take a Hyundai Snoozata at 1/2 the price, where at least I’d only lose 50% of my resale value by year two of ownership.
ohsnap- I’m pretty sure that the M35 and A6 are over $40K and approaching $50K. The G35 and A4 are closer in price but are tiny cars.
I’d get the Azera, same quality as the Genesis with the added benefit of extra interior space due to FWD
Ohsnap, percentages don’t put food on the table; dollars do. Do the math and you’ll see that the Genesis is bound to cost less depreciation than any comparable Audi or Infiniti. As for Hyundai percentages in general, I can tell you that my 2008 Santa Fe came with a guaranteed five-year residual of 42%.
Have any of you naysayers driven the new Genesis? I have and let me tell you for the “average” person(not a NASCAR driver) this car handles beautifully. I have an Azera and Sonata replacing a long line of Acura TL’s and I have never been happier. I foresee one problem with the Genesis and that is some dealers are adding on upwards of $6,000 because they think that the lack of supply will support the price gouging. I warned my dealer that this would come back to haunt them. I will be interested in about a year.
You can take this to the bank: These cars will be heavily discounted within 12 months.
Hyundai simply doesn’t have the dealer support, lacks the white glove treatment luxury car buyers expect, and badge image is still quite important in any segment above 30k.
Also, this car has been panned extensively in Korea (as it’s been for sale there longer), and was declared a distant also-ran to the usual German suspects in terms of driving dynamics. It has numb on center steering feel, soft and sloppy cornering, and will soon be playing 2nd string to the new powertrain offerings of the next gen of BMWs, Audis and Mercs that are soon to be released.
But if you’re in a gambling mood, and feeling truly adventurous, go ahead and pay anywhere near MSRP, let alone above it, to be able to brag about how you paid sticker for the first 33k+ Hyundai Lexus slayer. Hell, go all out and pay the 40k for the V8 version.
If you’re in a gambling mood, go ahead and pay the extra $20,000 for a BMW hood ornament, additional 0.02g of lateral acceleration, and mortgage-backed maintenance program. It was a bad investment in the 1990s when Lexus was first banging on the door, and it may be even worse this time around. Hyundai’s rise in quality and efficiency is unprecedented, and perfectly timed for the current economic climate. Get used to it :)
don, my sentiments exactly. There are people who have a serious case of badge snobbery and can’t let go of the 80’s image of the Excel. Unless one is a driver of high performance cars and takes them to their limit then judging a sedan that is in the luxury or near luxury category is totally different. My Azera performs exactly as I would want it to. I don’t race it to the outer limits and have no intention to. The Genesis is luxurious, handles well, and is what it is supposed to be, a luxury sedan that is not going to the drag strip. As I said before, if you haven’t driven the car then how do you criticise?
don and don? :)
Guys, don’t forget the cost of excellence. You are correct that the Hyundai is a better value. However, don’t get caught up in the “badge snobbery” thing. Until Hyundai makes a better car at a lower price, you should try to keep the rhetoric less abrasive.
As items like cars get near the top of luxury, design, and engineering, they do not follow a linear price change. Instead the curve moves steeper.
IOW. If you want a 10% better car than a Lexus, it might cost you 25% more. If you want a 10% better car than a Aston Martin, it might cost you 100% more. I just made those numbers up, but I hope you get the point.
The good news is that there are folks who are willing to pay a million dollars for a really cool car. We all benefit from that in many ways. Don’t knock it.
Hi Landcrusher. I agree with much of what you say, and don’t knock anyone who chooses Lexus or BMW. I do, however take exception to people who make comments about “dumb” Hyundai buyers. That is far more abrasive than anything I have said here… although the day isn’t over yet :)
More and more Hyundais (ie: 2009 Sonata, Santa Fe) are being ranked among the best in their class despite a leading price; exactly what you suggest is needed for the company to prove itself. But the luxury class is a tough nut to crack. Until Hyundai can offer a car that floats on air and cures erectile dysfunction, it is probably smarter to target 96% of a Lexus at 69% of the price. I say “probably” because nobody really knows at this point… all we have is a bunch of armchair speculating going on.
I have driven the Genesis. Why would anyone assume I didn’t before commenting as forcefully as I did?
The car is okay. They did a nice job with fit and finish, even though I remarked that the interior design is bland and uninspiring.
It also is quiet from what I could discern from a ‘restricted’ test drive (dealer actually had the balls to tell me 15 miles was the limit for the test drive – big turn off right there).
However, I purposefully drove over the roughest patch of roadway I knew of near the dealership, and hit every pothole I could, and the car does not handle too many suspension inputs at once all that well – certainly not as well any of the cars Hyundai ‘benchmarked’ that I have driven or driven in.
The base price of 33k comes fairly loaded, but c’mon, you have to move up to 36k to get nav?
Like I said, this car is not inexpensive. Hyundai is really pushing the envelope here by presenting this car as a ‘value proposition’ when the price hovers near the 40k mark optioned with features one expects in this class. In fact, you can easily top 40k with the V8 without trying.
Then, there’s the ultimate rub: Dealers marking the car up over MSRP. Are you kidding me? What is this, a Nissan GT-R or Corvette ZR1?
The fundamental problem with this car is that it does nothing exceptional. It is plain vanilla. Comparisons to Lexus back in ’89 are woefully misplaced. That car was quieter, more comfortable, more reliable and more logical than the Teutonic competition that cost upwards of 3x as much.
With a spread between it and similarly equipped competitors such as the Lexi and Infinitis of the world as narrow as 5k, Hyundai should have hit a grand slam, and they didn’t.
They hit a soft single.
As for folks who make extreme statements like calling Hyundai buyers dumb, I am trying to ignore them, and doing better everyday.
There are simply some statements (and authors) that aren’t worthy of comment.
ohsnap,
I had the Genesis for over an hour and drove it exactly the way I or my wife would drive it. We are not racers, hot-rodders, nor do we drive a car to the outer limits. I have driven and owned a goodly number of higher performance cars along with my Acura TL’s. The point being made is that this car may and will appeal to a certain niche who will be happy and satisfied. This isn’t about to compete with a Porsche, Corvette, or the likes. As for competing with the Lexus, the ES is still a gussied up Camry no matter how you paint it. The LS is another story. I have driven an Infiniti G series and Genesis is competitive, in my mind. The Mercedes have had full black circles over at Consumer Reports for reliability or lack thereof. The bottom line is that the Genesis is more than mere transportation. Hyundai is making quantum leaps when it comes to value and reliability and the cars are not so bad looking either. I just got back from my dealer’s service department and they said that marking up the car is a big, big mistake that will come back and haunt them. Like I said previously, I will be a more interested looker next year when my beloved Azzy is 3 years old and the Genesis has been around awhile.
I test drove the new Genesis models, as well as a Mercedes E550 for comparison, at today’s Drive Hyundai Genesis event in DC.
My wife and I are Acura drivers, for the record.
The V6 Genesis offers much on paper, as does the V8 model. The generous track the Hyundai folks provided in the parking lot of RFK stadium was probably more than most folks there had ever seen – complete with water “hazards”, well laid-out curves, a partial decreasing-axis loop, a pothole test, loose dirt, and a 0-60 run. Consequently, most folks’ speeds through switchbacks, emergency avoidance runs, and straightaways rarely topped 35mph (there were several radar signs that you could watch as folks lapped; I hit 47 in the V6 and 45 in the V8, not counting the 0-60 runs)).
I made sure to give the new Hyundais a fair trial. With essentially no limitations on speed or level of aggressive maneuvering (and years of cutting my teeth on mountain roads in upstate NY – both in bad and good weather) I found that, generally speaking, the V6 offered slightly sprightlier performance. But that doesn’t mean either was a wonder.
The V6 was smooth-revving and quiet, but cushy – offering indistinct road feel at the helm and too much body lean, nosedive, and squat under conditions that would generate them. The transmission was smooth, and willingly sacrificed sporty performance in favor of “luxurious tact” whenever tramped.
Despite being rear-drive cars, the V6 lacked balance through the twisties: never engendering fear of a loss of control even when pushed, but far from inspiring confidence. During the emergency avoidance sweeps, I swear that the steering lagged my inputs: a swift turn to the left resulted in a heavy force necessitated to turn; the return move to the original lane required so much less force that it was easy to swing the car too far because I anticipated a strong movement needed. I didn’t care for this disconnect at all.
The interior, as some might have noticed, is even a more obvious mish-mash of other vehicles’ interiors than I thought prior to the test: there’s a BMW iDrive knob, an oft-included electroluminescent gauge package, an Acura RL steering wheel, Infiniti G35 satnav cowling, Benz pillar vents, and a Caddy CTS gear selector – and tons of other layout elements seemingly directly lifted from some other vehicles and deposited, after subtle alterations, in the Genesis cabin. The seats were supportive and very adjustable, but not as embracing as they could have been. And there were plenty of other electrical goodies – all included in the bevy of 6- and 8-cylinder models that were available to thrash, er, test (the rearview camera was among the least distorted and most useful I’ve seen – especially on a gorgeous 8-inch LCD).
The V8 engine was a force to be reckoned with: powerful acceleration, whisper quiet dispatch, and heaps of torque. But it was, unfortunately, banal. The steering in this model offered much less connection between driver and car – inputs were wishes, not directives. The transmission shifted more smoother, but it offered even less liveliness than that in the V6 (I assume the large dose of torque required programmatic map changes from that of the V6, if not mechanical design changes). In neither test did I use the brakes much (save during the ABS/EBD test portion). However, I didn’t appreciate the sometimes foggy upshifts on gradual straightaways, as well as hard downshifts as I rounded sharp lefts – I’m pretty certain said occurrence would have surprised folks as much as whatever they were trying to “avoid”. Oh- and a note to manufacturers: if your vehicle is supposed to offer any semblance of performance beyond a 1960s cruiser in the twisties, *do not* integrate wood into the wheel directly where my hands fall during switchback turns: talk about slippery…Finally, the V8’s driver’s seat just wasn’t right for me (130lbs). It was firmer than that of the V6, but much less comfortable, with inadequate bolsters and overabundant glute- and hamstring-support.
Upon leaving, I remarked to my friend that the vast majority of folks who buy these aspirant-luxury cars (whose prices were listed at $40k and $42k on various wall displays and in some literature) would be well-served by what they bought. But I would like to change my conclusion, in part. I *do* believe they would be well-served, provided that the Genesis’ reliability observes the upward Hyundai trend, and provided that the folks buying them really do want nothing more than an appliance. However, with so much discussion in this forum of ego, aspiration, “keeping up with the Jonses”, et al, I do *not* believe that as many folks would be pleased with these cars if they only shopped these cars as sort of a self-deprecating declaration of “I don’t care about luxury, brand, and sportiness…well, I sort of do, but definitely don’t want you to think that I do…”
Of course, there will be variations on the prices, packages stuffed onto these chassis, and incentives. But having (enjoyed?) driven countless vehicles bookended by a Chevy Nova and an SL, I can say that I didn’t like either car enough to experience a comfortable fit within the bounds of performance, price, quality, and value. Hyundai’s improving, but far from creating something I crave: its Genesis simply hasn’t got a soul.
Soul or not, the Genesis offers something that almost no other manufacturer can, a quiet ride at 80 mph. In fact, at 70 mph, the measurements are around 63 db, which is equivalent to the S-class, and Cl-Class. I can’t find anything else that touches these numbers. Go try the new Acura RL, for example, and just listen without the radio on. Even with noise canceling, the RL has continuous noise on the highway. The Lexus LS is supposed to be so quiet, but look at the newest motor trend long term testing. It’s noisy on the highway, which I confirmed in my own testing. It just seems that we take this stuff for granted but I believe it says a lot for the structural integrity of the vehicle. In other words, how well is it built! If this was so easy to do, and inexpensive, why do not most manufacturers just see to it that their cars are quiet! It is my impression that constant noise while driving, even with sensory adaptation (you may not notice it after awhile), is a leading cause of driver fatigue. Just my 2 cents.
The Lexus LS was noisier by comparison only because of its aggressive tires.
Yes, tires matter a lot in terms of producing road noise.
The Genesis is a very poor imitation of the Lexus LS by almost any metric.
To the person who stated that this is more of an editorial than a review…Good, it’s about time. I’m tired of reading reviews of cars where they don’t really give us any insight beyond the figures and no personal opinions. I still wouldn’t purchase the Genesis if all comparable vehicles were $10,000 more. I guess I might reconsider if the only other option was riding the bus. I think Hyundai’s reliability is GREATLY overstated in these posts. And I know for a fact that the resale value on these vehicles is terrible. I did enjoy how they were able to articulate that there really is no reason to not like the Genesis, other than the fact that it’s a generic representation of what a real car should be.
One more thing let’s not forget, this is a Hyundai that can be configured with options to approach a price of $40,000…and the 4.6 can go over $40K. yikes.
My wife and I bought a 3.8L Genesis last month, mainly because we are from Korea and Hyundai sells Genesis about a few thousand dollars cheaper in the States than Korea. After spending in the States for one year, we plan to ship our car back to Korea.
We drove from L.A. to Houston and it already has 6000 miles on it. So far we LOVE this car! I drove other luxury cars like a Lexus and a 5-series BMW before. Not counting the brand image, I would buy a Genesis over a 5 BMW (maybe not a Lexus) even if a 5-BMW and a Genesis are the same price.
Hyundai had bad images due to the fact that they introduced cheap and not-dependable cars in the late 80’s and early 90’s. I strongly believe that things are now different, as their cars these days are much more reliable.
I respect opinions of those who have doubts about Genesis and Hyundai. It will be interesting to see how Genesis competes with other big named cars in one or two years. I wouldn’t be surprised if Genesis will be still around and doing well. O.K. I am biased!
I want to remind people that Samsung and LG products were not considered seriously in not so many years ago and now they were considered to be among the best in electronic appliances. I feel that Hyundai tries its best to follow up what Samsung and LG have accomplished, even though I think it is a lot tougher in automobile industry.
In conclusion, I would recommend a Genesis to anybody who wants to be happy with a luxury car under 40K and not worrying about what others say.
I’m as guilty of brand-idolatry as the next guy, but there comes a time when one needs to grow up and show some objectivity.
Unfortunately, most reading this forum know little or nothing about Hyundai, except that they’re the guys who sold the cheap Jap knock-offs starting in the mid-80s.
While Hyndai is the fifth largest auto maker in the world, they’re not even primarily a car company. Their shipbuilding operations dwarf their auto business, and their largest business isn’t manufacturing at all. It’s being the world’s premier engineering consultant!
Hyundai produced cheap, boring cars because that’s what their target market bought. You had the world’s best engineers designing and building intentionally mediocre cars. US buyers didn’t catch on, and rightly so.
Make no mistake; the Genesis is unquestionably the finest luxury car priced under $80,000; and it’s priced at only half that. In a few years, as the market catches on (grows up?), Hyundai will be making the highest quality automobiles on the planet, bar none! (Right now, they’re at #3) Hopefully, there’ll be enough mature folks around to buy them.
rcdruty said:
“Make no mistake; the Genesis is unquestionably the finest luxury car priced under $80,000; and it’s priced at only half that.
Put the crack pipe down.
Surely you jest?
If you believe your own dribble, you’ll be estatic when you can buy a two year old Genesis that MSRP’d for about 36k for 16k w/around 27,000 miles on it (or less).
Three letters for this car – BMW – when it comes to dynamic engineering, fuel efficiency, performance, and style, BMW are the experts. With the next generation BMW’s bio diesel engines and hydrogen engines I don’t see anyone keeping them down from the top. They have the backing and years and history. I prefer a proven success track and history and with Hyundai I don’t know much, they are a fairly new company. They are in the segment with Lexus and Lexus has them beat hands down. Performance and engineering wise they can’t hold a candle to BMW! After all they copied them, the back of that thing mimics a 5 series and the front mimics Mercedes S Class. Be original if you are gonna run with the big boys. Sorry the Genesis is not the best performance luxury sedan under 100k. The best would be a BMW 550i or an even more ferocious M5. After BMW, Audi, and Lexus I think Hyundai has its place. It certainly is better than any American Sedan but to compare it to BMW or Audi is irrelevant!
You make a good point about the quality of BMW. Besides the obviously advanced engineering, how do BMW and Mercedes achieve such consistently high quality? It is primarily the result of automation in their production processes. So, who designed and built the machines that build Mercedes and BMW automobiles? Hyundai; that’s who!
I just looked at a 2011 Genesis with the 290 HP V-6 and it is definitley nicer overall than my base model four year old Avalon. However the Avalon has 123,000 trouble free miles on it; taken me reliably all over the Eastern US with highway mileage nearly 30 mpg and a comfortable, if not luxurious interior to carry my large butt.
I fit the Japanese Buick demographic at 63, but have always loved cars. I checked out the nicely styled new Sonata but it is pointed marketing wise at the Camry, I want a larger, quieter car for lots of highway mileage until I retire in 2 to 3 years.