Why would anyone gloat about The Great American SUV's spectacular fall from grace? Why wouldn't they? As for San Francisco Chronicler Mark Morford's gleeful epitaph, the main question here is, "Dude! What took you so long?" Whatever your take on the topic, you gotta admit MM dances on the SUV's grave with pugnacious panache. "Who didn't note the beginning of the end when, five years ago, the world's worst consumer vehicle ever took its place as the poster child for all that went wrong with the condescending American ethos, the oil-sucking war-drunk Bush-mauled mind-set? Ah, the Hummer H2. Has any consumer product embodied our misguided arrogance better? The ridiculous scale, the horrible handling, the contemptible road manners, the false machismo, the Cro-Magnon design, the ability to traverse 60-degree rockslides in a hurricane even though all you ever really needed to do was run over those little concrete bumps in the Wal-Mart parking lot. Dude! Righteous!" And here's the really scary part: Detroit Free Press' Matt Helms' po-faced, mea culpa response. Has Motown's mauling put it into a terminal funk?
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
MM does not heart Detroit:
Detroit is about as nimble and innovative as a brick.
I will miss both the Hummer and Dick Cheney. I like the fact that I have a choice in what I drive, even if it isn’t practical or “what I really need”.
I also like the fact that we haven’t had any terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11, so I really will miss President Bush and Vice President Cheney.
After reading the entire article in the chronicle, I’d say Mark was being charitable.
To me the proof of the SUV’s downfall came almost 7 years ago when I crossed a short, unpaved section of road (the paving had been removed for some utility work or something) and the guy in the jacked up Escalade behind me WENT AROUND IT.
They just can’t die soon enough.
If Detroit had fought with product, you know CARS, rather than lobbyists and light-truck shaped loopholes, they wouldn’t be as completely fscked as they are now. In any other industry the BOD’s would have sacked the entire executive staff by now.
As for choice Tex, all we’ve had offered to us from Detroit are trucks of various seating arrangements for the past 15 years. No hatchbacks, no small sedans, no sports cars, no small Diesels, no reasonably priced economy cars, no station wagons. For those we have HAD to turn to Germany, Japan, and Korea. Sure, they’ve tossed out one or two of a couple of those categories, but seriously we all know Detroit bet the whole damn farm on SUVs and they’ve lost.
I won’t even touch the political side of you comment for fear of taking this whole thread down the toilet.
–chuck
TexasAg03:
I also like the fact that we haven’t had any terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11, so I really will miss President Bush and Vice President Cheney.
Weren’t Dubya & Cheney in power on 09/11/01???
Texas,
Don’t forget they were the ones in charge WHEN the 9/11 attack happened.
Just because it hasn’t happened since then doesn’t change the fact they were in charge when it did happen – mapping the oil fields of Iraq no less.
And if a politician can’t create good policies that survive beyond their terms, they don’t need to be in office (see Rick Wagonner for ineffective leadership and policies that need changed right now. Wait, needed changed 5 years ago at the latest).
i can remember when the H2 first came out a local paving company bought 3 or 4 as a company vehicle. on the side was nice vinyl ad for the company and what not. I saw one in a packing lot and asked the driver “isnt it because of your company (paving) that we dont need to drive H2’s? ” he was kinda stuck in thought for a minute, then came back with something about a tax break.
the H1 was cool because if you drove one you were making all kinds of compromises. Its the lotus elise of SUV’s. you have to be committed to drive one regularly. the H2 is more like the M3, its able to do the job, its just not as hard edged as it could be and their for not as cool. and if you drive either most people will think your manhood is small.
Ah, politics.
Bringing out the best in people since 4000 B.C.
TexasAg03:
I will miss both the Hummer and Dick Cheney. I like the fact that I have a choice in what I drive, even if it isn’t practical or “what I really need”.
Indeed. As Wesley Snipes said in the movie Demolition Man: “You can’t take away people’s right to be a******s!”
I think it is a mistake to get rid of Hummer. GM has an iconic brand.They just need to “right size” the vehicle and the division.
Texas:
There also haven’t been any alien invasions but I don’t think Bush can take credit for that.
Texas, you can thank Bush and Cheney for the fact that we didn’t prepare for the skyrocketing demand for oil ahead of time. And for the thousands of dollars you’ve had to pay to fund the Iraq war, which hasn’t done a thing to make all of us safer from future 9-11s. And for the fact that 9-11 happened in the first place, and when Bush became pres, he refused to heed Pres Clinton’s warnings about OBL. (The mother of a dear friend of mine was killed in one of the trade towers.)
Great column by MM.
“wrong with the condescending American ethos, the oil-sucking war-drunk Bush-mauled mind-set”
I don’t like SUVs, but I can think that a particular car is a bad idea without hating the USA and everyone in it.
In the immortal words of Robun Williams, a man’s brain only has enough blood to run his penis or his brain.
If one is working, the other cannot.
Same with writers humor.
If his comdedy is working, his common sense is not.
RF…why did this have to hit so low and attack DC?
I mean, come on now…many of us like your writing and your commitment, but stay away from the stupid political humor.
Its pretty weak.
I mean, do you actually prefer having Al Gore in as VP?
Now he IS a person with real commitments!
REALLY????
Now that’s an inconvenient bit of news to me.
Obviuosly my spelling is not working as well when I am writing!
Though you can find a lot of justifiably negative things to say about the Hummer brand, it embodies an American ideal of being able to choose even what is not popular or socially acceptable. This goes for cars, religion, hobbies, politics, and all sorts of other facets of life.
At the risk of picking sides, I do wish that people and especially journalists would refrain from placing all of the blame for the ills in the world on single figure-heads such as Hummers and Dick Cheney. Finding the answers to problems is not that simple.
All this said, I do think that cutting Hummer is appropriate for GM and I won’t miss it too much. I’m a Jeep guy, anyway.
If you don’t like SUV’s, don’t buy one. I don’t own one, but I also don’t own a lot of things you might own that I consider a huge waste of money.
With all the self-righteousness out there right now, I’m thinking of buying one.
Talk about being countercultural!
You can always tell a thought-less liberal because if the conversation on any topic lasts more than a few seconds, Bush/Cheney somehow comes up, and somehow it is all their fault.
@Robert Schwartz:
I don’t like SUVs, but I can think that a particular car is a bad idea without hating the USA and everyone in it.
The H2 isn’t merely a car, it’s a symbol of some of the worst excesses in American culture. I think one can criticize those excesses without “hating the USA and everyone in it.” Does loving your country mean you have to love every moron and arrogant, ignorant blowhard in it?
TexasAg03 :
July 31st, 2008 at 11:38 am
I will miss both the Hummer and Dick Cheney. I like the fact that I have a choice in what I drive, even if it isn’t practical or “what I really need”.
I also like the fact that we haven’t had any terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11, so I really will miss President Bush and Vice President Cheney.
The way I look at it, 9/11 took place on Bush and Cheney’s watch. Then that tragic event was hijacked by a scruple less team of con men to get us into Iraq.
The Hummer phenomenon is symbolic of our imperial hubris.
Hummer embodies american fit and finish. Just look at those immense gaps between hood and grille, or fenders and bumpers.And texture of those plastics. It embodies looks over contents. How can such a car weight so much? probably many Americans and rich Russians get flashed by the chrome abundancy and have no idea what the leaf springs down there mean…
Pity that Clinton didn’t steal Ross Perot’s idea of deficit reduction via a 50-cent gas tax back in ’93 when gas was only a buck.
The SUV craze would never have taken hold in the face of a guaranteed 50% increase in the price of gas.
Both parties have let us down, on most issues.
Could I attempt to steer this in a bit more constructive direction?
We all know that cars (motor vehicles) are about more than transportaion – otherwise 97 % of us would be drving a Fit/Yaris.
I’m old enough to remember when a rugged outdoorsy image could be had by driving a simple 4cyl 4wd vehicle like the original IH Scout, or Willys CJ. Maybe we could get back to that ? Not everyone who bought one actually needed one – there were posers back in the day – though perhaps not nearly so many.
I don’t like Shrub or Cheney, but if I’m not mistaken Slick Willy was getting a bj in the oval office when GM decided to buy Hummer and dress it in civies.
To chuckgoolsbee- That would be a neat trick since 7 years ago the Escalade did not exist.
I too will miss Dick Cheney and the Hummer. Everyone will miss Dick if the BO gets elected. You know, they guy with the funny name who doesn’t look like the other presidents? THe guy who says this race is not about race, but brings it up all the time?
Right, two people (Pres,VP) run the entire country? So both congress and the senate dont have any involvement at all. Please leave the tired, one-sided, class envy articles off TTAC.
The Hummer is just a bigger Jeep for people who like that sort of thing.
Like or hate it, it’s iconic.
And the fact that GM washed another iconic and profitable brand down the toilet along with all of the brand-loyal followers speaks larger volumes about GM than it does about what Hummer represents.
Does the Sequoia represent everything wrong with Toyota? Or does the Avalon represent everything wrong with the US? That kind of thinking is too simplistic and simply unAmerican in my book.
A spade is a spade, no matter whose political party is in power or what the current fashion trends are.
Orian:
“Texas,
Don’t forget they were the ones in charge WHEN the 9/11 attack happened.”
Yea man, and don’t forget that Roosevelt was in charge WHEN the 12/7 attack happened. (Hey, pssst! Pearl Harbor was an inside job, don’t ya’ know?).
TonyTiger:
The Escalade has been in production since 1999.
Weren’t Dubya & Cheney in power on 09/11/01???
Yes, they had been in office less than eight months. I would argue that this was not enough time to correct the problems created by the separation of the various intelligence agencies by the Clinton administration.
Also, I would remind you that Clinton had a chance to get Bin Laden and did not.
Texas, you can thank Bush and Cheney for the fact that we didn’t prepare for the skyrocketing demand for oil ahead of time.
They have tried to pass legislation for more drilling and other plans and the Democrats have blocked them every time. Therefore, I can thank the Democrats for not being prepared for the oil demand and for their continued efforts in blocking the plans to get more of our own oil.
And for the thousands of dollars you’ve had to pay to fund the Iraq war, which hasn’t done a thing to make all of us safer from future 9-11s.
I believe what is really happening in Iraq, not what Pelosi, CNN, CBS, et. al. would have us believe.
And for the fact that 9-11 happened in the first place, and when Bush became pres, he refused to heed Pres Clinton’s warnings about OBL. (The mother of a dear friend of mine was killed in one of the trade towers.)
See my comment above. Clinton had the chance to get Bin Laden and didn’t. I am terribly sorry for everyone who died on 9/11, but blaming someone who had been in office less than eight months is silly.
I don’t like SUVs, but I can think that a particular car is a bad idea without hating the USA and everyone in it.
Agreed. I don’t care for the Prius, but if someone wants one, more power to them (no pun intended).
I find it funny how people who live some big cities never complain about the carbon footprint of the trucks used to ship in their cheese, wine, and yoga mats.
That’s the mantra though. When you creating a mass hysteria of hatred, you have to pick one symbol and focus solely on it. Ignore all other problems because if SUV’s go away, the birds will sing, and flowers will bloom. Then it’s on to the next trend. What ever happened to the Nuclear Waste movement? I miss them.
You know what I love about neo-cons? The hypocracy.
Can you imagine the hue and cry from the right wing if President Al Gore (you know, the one that actually was elected) had ignored a PDB in August that said “Bin Laden determined to attack US with hijacked airliners.”??
But since it happened on “their guy’s” watch, they’ll give him a pass, cuz he’s only been prexy for 8 months…
Personal responsibility, my ass.
willbodine
Thumbs up!
chuckgoolsbee:
If Detroit had fought with product, you know CARS, rather than lobbyists and light-truck shaped loopholes, they wouldn’t be as completely fscked as they are now. In any other industry the BOD’s would have sacked the entire executive staff by now.
Yes, Detroit’s product sucked, but (and I have a lengthy essay written about this that I plan on sharing at an opportune time) at least in the case of GM, product wasn’t its downfall. Structural uncompetitiveness (too many brands, too many dealers, too many union obligations) was GM’s downfall. They could have made the best small cars on the planet and would be in the same hole they’re in now. Maybe deeper.
As for choice Tex, all we’ve had offered to us from Detroit are trucks of various seating arrangements for the past 15 years. No hatchbacks,
Malibu Maxx
no small sedans,
Focus, Contour, Escort, Cavalier, Cobalt, Neon, S-series
no sports cars,
Corvette, Viper, Camaro, Mustang, FordGT, SRT4, CobaltSS Turbo…
no small Diesels,
Japan and Korea didn’t give us any, either.
no reasonably priced economy cars,
Cavalier, Aveo, S-Series, Focus, Neon
no station wagons.
Taurus (-2006), Focus (-2007), Magnum (-2008), Malibu Maxx (sort of, -2007). Japan and Korea stopped selling wagons eons ago because Americans weren’t buying them.
Saw a Hummer yesterday that was a rolling billboard for Pizza Hut. Completely covered with logos and pizza images. My first thought was “They use Hummers to deliver pizzas?!?”
Then I realized if one wants an eye-catching rolling billboard, a Hummer is a good choice. Kind of an off-road capable Oscar Meyer Wienermobile.
Let’s not let the political obsessives distract us. There’s a time and place for most everything.
I’m not a big fan of either SUV’s or Mr. Bush, but you can’t blame the Bush-Cheney cabal for people who bought 1998 Explorers or Suburbans.
Come on, folks, people bought these because fuel was cheap, and given their druthers, many Americans will drive Tiger tanks if given half a chance.
They aren’t rejecting SUV’s or falling love with the planet, they just can’t afford $4+ gas. It was stupid for Detroit to not have a product for these people to buy if the market changed. Putting all of one’s eggs in a single basket is never a good idea.
“Texas, you can thank Bush and Cheney for the fact that we didn’t prepare for the skyrocketing demand for oil ahead of time.”
“They have tried to pass legislation for more drilling and other plans and the Democrats have blocked them every time. Therefore, I can thank the Democrats for not being prepared for the oil demand and for their continued efforts in blocking the plans to get more of our own oil.”
I have to agree. I don’t think that Republicans are disagreeing that we need to develop alternative enrgy sources but the Democrats refusal to drill and opposition to nuclear is approaching something of a religious furvor for them. I just heard Congress adjourned for 5 weeks without any agreement on tackling the high cost of gas. Hey it’s convention time don’t ya’ know! But we have ethanol subsidies, yea!
revolver – I stand corrected, thank you. I’m surprised at the date because I recall reading a story about Caddy after the Navigator came out (1998, right?) The head of Caddy said, paraphrasing “Cadillac is a luxury car company. Hell will freeze over before we’ll build a truck.” Hell froze a lot sooner than I thought.
I also checked kbb for 2001 Escalade value – and there is no escalade listed for 2001??? So I assumed 2002 was it’s first year. Mea culpa to chuck as well.
Easy mistake to make as there were no 2001 Escalades, they went from 2000 to 2002.
As a final thought…because I feel like my string was pulled to get me emotionally involved with a headline…Let’s be clear:
It EASY for any auto company to be successful IF they only do ONE thing.
In the case of US mfgrs, I do agree that they were caught with to many larger vs smaller choices.
But, they do/DID offer to us the stronger vehicles needed to run our economy and country.
If we had to depend upon Nissan or Honda or Mazda to provide the heavy duty trucks, we would have none.
It’s not the fault of Ford and GM that every teenager wanted to be a cowboy and got himself a hat and a truck.
You build what they will buy.
Meanwhile, the others kept their smaller focus and did well in their niches.
It was easy.
They didn’t have to supply the trucks.
But come on…the consumer did an about face, leaving the mnfgr with lots of inventory.
And the niche mfgrs were there with their little cars…and everybody talks about their foresight.
Come on.
OK.
So they should have had a better plan should the market turn, and we did see it eventually coming.
But who ever thought oil would go from 80 a barrel to 140 in a few month ?
Don’t tell me you did.
If you do…your a damned liar.
And show me the money you made from your big investment in this knowledge
The whole anti-SUV craze is mostly just folks taking an opportunity to be self-righteous.
Breaking News: In a free society, people have the right to be stupid. Or not. They have every right to buy the vehicle they want, be it a Prius, a Hummer H2, or a Lamborghini Reventon. In the great scheme of things, all the H2’s sold won’t make a dime’s worth of difference in the amount of oil we use.
More Breaking News: Auto companies react to the market. When everyone wanted a truck or SUV, they built ’em. Now they don’t, and they aren’t.
More Breaking News: No one forced anybody to buy an SUV. If you didn’t want one, Rick Wagoner wasn’t sending the brownshirts to your house.
More Breaking News: Toyota not only build the Prius, but the Land Cruiser, LX 570 and Sequoia. Where are the protests?
Detroit gorged on the truck/SUV craze, neglected their car development, and now they’re paying the price. That’s how it works.
I hate conservatives. They’re self-centered, self-righteous, self-serving, hypocritical bastards who gladly support any policy that props up their own gluttonous, decadent lifestyle, the rest of humanity be damned. They always feel entitled to their own vices, but seem to want to legislate everyone else’s. And then have the gall to trumpet their own mental and logical superiority because of it.
I also hate liberals. They’re whiny, over-sensitive crybabies who are utterly disconnected from reality, who believe everyone on earth is entitled to a comfortable life without having to work or struggle to earn anything. They think Americans are pure evil, despite our society’s unbridled opportunities for success for all of the poor oppressed they claim to want to help. And then they have the gall to trumpet their moral superiority and greatness of “compassion” because of it.
A plague on both your houses.
“Weren’t Dubya & Cheney in power on 09/11/01???”
I also believe a democrate house and senate were in power when gas got this high, mortgage crisis hit, and economy hit the fan…
The same congress gave fannie mae and freddie mac HUGE checks
The same congress hasn’t done anything to help gas prices
as a matter of fact, they havn’t done anything…
Either a bunch of people here work for Halliburton and are cashing big fat checks or they’re not as smart as… awww screw it. i don’t want to get banned over Dick.
Zarba – You make excellent points. Unfortunately, this is no longer a free society when it comes to many things, including choices in automobiles and even light bulbs. Mainly due to our “friends”, the democrats. Now, they are talking about re-instituting the oxymoronic “fariness doctrine” which will take away your freedom to listen to, watch or even blog what u like, unless someone else broadcasts or blogs the exact opposite to make it “fair”. They are truly the new Leninists.
TexasAg03: “I am terribly sorry for everyone who died on 9/11, but blaming someone who had been in office less than eight months is silly.”
I agree! But when is this administration’s start date? Is it OK if I start holding them responsible for all of their many ineptitudes, say, beginning in October of 2001? Does that work for you?
man, this news entry was a can ‘o worms. all the ugly is coming out. ignorance is bliss i guess.
Bush & Cheney, what a team!
They singlehandedly brought down the “greatest country on Earth” to its knees in just 7 short years. This will certainly go down as one of the greatest political feats in the history of mankind.
nevermind
@windsword
…opposition to nuclear…
I forgot about nuclear power. I wonder how much oil we could save if nuclear sources provided, say, 25% of our energy needs.
That sounds like an interesting research project…
They singlehandedly brought down the “greatest country on Earth” to its knees in just 7 short years.
I don’t believe for a minute that we have been “brought to our knees”. I think that’s what liberals hoped would happen under Bush and it’s what many are saying, but I don’t think it’s true.
Not for nothing, but 9/11 took years to plan……under Clinton’s watch (the economic downturn back then also started late summer of 2000). Anyhoo, I always thought that the Hummer was ugly. Like the obnoxious curves of the Pontiac Aztek. I’m a car guy anyway.
Will I miss the Hummer brand? No. Do I care if people buy them? No. It’s their preference. I mean really, it’s only a heaver version of the Tahoe, and no one was making a big political deal about that. The market has spoken.
President Bush and V. President Cheney: We are to blame for them and (!) the Clinton s. We are witnessing the demise of a Republic to strait Corporatism. Watch/read the corporate news all you want, it doesn’t change the facts.
You may miss Dick Cheney; however, he may not miss you. So be sure you have your bullet-proof vest handy.
It probably did take years to plan, flarn. That globalhawk is complicated, I hear. I’m not against anyone having a hummer. Looking ridiculous has become commonplace. Heck, bring back leisure suits for all I care.
You may miss Dick Cheney; however, he may not miss you. So be sure you have your bullet-proof vest handy.
As long as I’m not an idiot and don’t walk in front of him while he’s hunting, I’ll be fine…
Heck, bring back leisure suits for all I care.
Or at least “Leisure Suit Larry”.
Heck, bring back leisure suits for all I care.
Or at least “Leisure Suit Larry”.
:) In the Land of the Lounge Lizards!
I’m going to miss Hummers. This is going to seriously impact my ability to responsibly despise people before ever talking to them. :( Oh well, I can still look for confederate flags.
Axel :
hatchbacks: Malibu Maxx
small sedans: Focus, Contour, Escort, Cavalier, Cobalt, Neon, S-series
sports cars: Corvette, Viper, Camaro, Mustang, FordGT, SRT4, CobaltSS Turbo…
small Diesels: Japan and Korea didn’t give us any, either.
reasonably priced economy cars: Cavalier, Aveo, S-Series, Focus, Neon
station wagons: Taurus (-2006), Focus (-2007), Magnum (-2008), Malibu Maxx (sort of, -2007). Japan and Korea stopped selling wagons eons ago because Americans weren’t buying them.
I think the key point is “offerings that didn’t suck.” :) There are some decent cars on that list, but it’s pretty obvious which the average American is going to pick between a Camry and a Taurus.
Of 23 cars on that list, there’s maybe 2 I would drive and none I would purchase. I mean, Neon? Aveo? Magnum? Cavalier and Cobalt on the same list is shocking, let alone as examples that GM was providing competent entries to fight the imports? Guh.
Why couldn’t it be a two-edged problem? I agree that GM branding is ludicrous, but in all probability it’s both: the scant selection of cars that GM did provide were competing with other GM cars under different brandnames.
Maybe I’m a horrible human being, but I want to live in a strong country with imperial ambition. And the resources and capabilities to achive it’s goals.
My ancetsors did not understand the concepts of private property ownership or sweeping decimating military power. I do and I like them.
yournamehere : Construction companies get a tax break on vehicles with a GVWR over 5000lbs. The H2 weighs more than that to begin with, so it automatically qualifies. Since you can write off depreciation and gas, it equals a LOT of tax writeoffs.
morbo : “All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo!”
lewissalem :
July 31st, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I find it funny how people who live some big cities never complain about the carbon footprint of the trucks used to ship in their cheese, wine, and yoga mats.
—————————-
That might be because those trucks have a tremendous amount of actual utility in towing cheese, wine, and yoga mats. And many other goods too, ‘Made in France’ or not. Hummers and (insert SUV name here) don’t.
Oh, and some of you folks (primarily the OP) really need to learn how to take a joke. The SFGate columnist doesn’t care for Dick Cheney, nor the job he’s doing. Many people do care for the man and his work, and despite their innate stupidity, there was ultimately no need to get into any political potshotting.
Excellent title. Thanks for the laugh.
I find it funny how people who live some big cities never complain about the carbon footprint of the trucks used to ship in their cheese, wine, and yoga mats.
That is because most of us drive out to the suburbs to buy all of those things!
Whenever anyone ever uses the phase: “In a free society I have the right to do ……..” You know they are on the end of a loosing arguement!
So many Americans hate the Hummer brand because it does make us look COLLECTIVELY stupid as a society/ country.
Come on, what exactly do you think of when you see someone driving one of these silly things especially in Yellow?
Quite simply the Hummmer is the opitime of what a childish, immature adult would find “cool”. For America the Hummer H2 makes outsiders look at us and say “You guys need to get a life already!”
I think it’s pretty much an empirical fact that a large majority of Americans won’t miss Dick Cheney.
And the Hummer H2 is a symbol of our collective delusion and failure over the past seven years. Good riddance to both.
ra_pro:
“Bush & Cheney, what a team!
They singlehandedly brought down the “greatest country on Earth” to its knees in just 7 short years. This will certainly go down as one of the greatest political feats in the history of mankind.”
Uh, that would be Carter & Mondale. You have to remember that your lifetime is not the history of the world.
Carter and Mondale only served for 4 years!
And at least Carter left something for Reagan to work with!
Re: Bush: All right everyone, this is a car blog, let’s talk ’bout cars. The Hummer is an SUV that was too big in my opinion to be of use either off-road or on. The H2 and H3 were either too big or too weak. Reliability was terrible on both. The original was designed to take mines and explosions. It was more a tank than a genuine off-road vehicle. Sure it had great ground clearance and all, but if you really wanted a Rubicon eater, the Wrangler was always the better choice.
That’s why the Hummer sucks. If you want an off-roader, generally the Wrangler’s a better choice in my opinion. If you want a tough vehicle an F-150 would probably be a better option, in Lariat trim if you want luxury. If you want a vehicle to drive into a warzone (i.e. Miami or Detroit when it’s at war against Toyota City) you buy a Hummer. That’s my opinion. Any thoughts?
zenith
Very early on in the Clinton administration, he proposed a BTU tax on fossil fuels. Very sensible idea. We would be in a far better place now if that had happened. The proposal was promptly swatted down.
As to whomever expressed the sentiment that he liked the USA to be the planetary bully, a call bullshit! We would be far better off emulating Switzerland rather than the Roman Empire. Empires historically self destruct from within, and rarely have truly democratic forms of government.
As long as I’m getting taxed, if I could choose, I’d have my taxes, and my share of the utterly irresponsible and crippling national debt go to the welfare of the people (primarily infrastructure and health care), not warfare and military bases in over 100 countries on the planet.
How come militarists think of security and protection to be one dimensional? I want to protection all right, protection from
catastrophic health expenses, economic ruin from “free market” excesses, environmental destruction, monopolistic business that limit my choices, and many more “Protection” is multi-dimensional.
The current right wing is a collection of ignorant simpletons, brainwashed by the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh
That being said, yes, freedom of choice. Drive a Hummer, I would request that the Hummer should conform to crash compatibility standard so you won’t take my head off in my corolla with your bumper when you collide with me.
The Hummer represents more than a big SUV to lots of people that goes to politics too — but even a good leftie like me figures if that’s what you want to drive and you can afford the gas go for it. Just don’t run me down. If it’s unsafe to other drivers or eats too much gas then you should lobby your congress person for a regulation.
If you see one and get angry I guess I can understand but let me point you to the Southpark where they all bought hybrids, and the city was overcome with “smug” (not smog)
I’m shocked, shocked, I tell you, to see that a writer for the San Francisco Chronicle made a joke criticizing Hummers and a Republican vice president.
That’s just so, so original.
It seems that many writers on the left don’t understand the difference between satire and self-parody.
Just remember Mr. Morford, my bicycle is morally superior to your Prius.
If we condemn Hummer along with the rest of the bandwagon, we just risk tossing ourselves into the green camp which despises all things that produce carbon dioxide (aside from Al Gore’s mouth). Hummer (H2) got introduced as a goofy macho truck that no one really took seriously from the git-go, but damn if it didn’t sell like hotcakes. The people got what they wanted, now we’ve decided that the people don’t want that anymore – and we’ll damn everyone to hell who disagrees.
SUVs are not killing the earth. Gas is not that expensive, relatively. An SUV can be useful and (gasp!) fun in the right hands. Why can’t we just leave buyers alone, even if we feel they are making the wrong choice? I don’t go out yelling at Hyundai Accent owner’s for buying a dreary beige econocrapbox when they should have bought a used Corolla (even though I want to). So let’s leave Hummer to die in peace – we get it, it’s an anachronism in today’s market, now shut up.
Robert,
When are you going to start a San Fran Chron death watch or a New York Times death watch?
It would be interesting to start a death pool and see how many people think that mainstream media daily newspapers in big cities will survive the Detroit auto mfgs.
Detroit may have the problem of not having the vehicles people want to buy now. With the right products you can reverse a bad customer impression (cf. Hyundai).
But with big city newspapers, nobody wants to subscribe or advertise. They are truly buggy whip manufacturers.
Well let me be the first to step to the front of the stupid line. I bought a used 2000 Suburban in early 2002 I paid about 20k for it with 30k miles on it.
That was 100k miles ago. Know whats broken on it? The radio knob. Yep thats it, I’ve done brakes and hoses and belt and of course plenty of oil changes.
I LOVE my suburban, with the flowmaster exhaust and K&N fipk I get close to 20 on the highway hauling the family of five. My volvo 940 wagon only gets about 24mpg and I can tell you that merging is much easier in the Sub.
This car does everything I ask it to very well and his given me fantastic service and reliability for what I consider to be a very reasonable cost. The extra hundred bucks a month in gas is not worth the car payment on something else at this point…
OH! almost forgot the best part was a few years ago when I would get all the SUV’s are killing the world leaflets under my wipers. I could be parked next to a siverado or an F350 monster and they wouldn’t get one. Cracked me up…
@JTParts
It’s a shame GM doesn’t produce a small car with that kind of quality. I had a first gen Saturn. Had they kept with the original concept (the practical person’s sporty car) and improved the car (the engine was junk) I probably would still be driving one. I have an Accord, which I love.
Kinda reminds me of a bumper sticker on a pickup truck with Pennsylvania plates:
“Dick Cheney…..before he di**s you…”
Strangely enough, the sticker was placed right next to the driver’s NRA Lifetime membership sticker…
Go figure…
re: “I’m going to miss the Hummer in the same way I’ll miss Dick Cheney”
does this have anything to do with hunting quail?
[cuz the big dick doesn’t miss]
re: “RF…why did this have to hit so low and attack DC?…many of us like your writing and your commitment, but stay away from the stupid political humor.”
ppellico / July 31st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
have no fear, robert – most of the rest of the world sees things as you do. you have aligned yourself on the right side of this issue.
Gas comes from enemy states.
So. Lets increase gas pig surcharge. A lot. Say,
(100% of pretax vehicle price x (actual liters/km – 5 liters/km) / 5 liters/km).
Call it the patriot tax or maybe war on terror tax, whichever works in red focus groups.
Cheney enables enemy states. “Conservation is not a valid public policy.” And he is the one with the brains.
you can thank Bush and Cheney for the fact that we didn’t prepare for the skyrocketing demand for oil ahead of time.
Oil demand isn’t “skyrocketing,” unless you misrepresent global demand increasing 1 – 2% by that term.
And for the thousands of dollars you’ve had to pay to fund the Iraq war, which hasn’t done a thing to make all of us safer from future 9-11s. And for the fact that 9-11 happened in the first place, and when Bush became pres, he refused to heed Pres Clinton’s warnings about OBL.
I say the following as a registered Democrat: No one knows what the Iraq campaign prevented. One thing it did disprove is OBL’s belief that America can’t commit to a sustained fight. I suspect that the Iraq War, which was won quickly by the way, and the Iraq Occupation, which was utterly ham-handed for too long before gaining traction, will be judged more positively in a few to several decades than is popular thinking now. As for 9/11’s occurrence, the Clinton administration was clearly at fault for its anemic, flat-footed response to the ’93 WTC, ’97 Khobar Towers and ’00 Cole bombings. Clinton’s unserious foreign policy and nearly complete lack of security planning were primary elements of risk leading to 9/11.
Hummer is a distinctive and profitable brand for GM that could perform for the long term. The H3 and variants were steps in the right direction for them. The targeting of the H2 by the hate-American-excess crowd was disingenuous. One can easily drive various Jeeps into same or worse fuel economy. Many high performance sports and luxury GTs will do no better in real-world driving. So, it’s tough to see around on the freeway — so are models from the entire category.
Carbon footprint? Where’s the accounting for mega-diesel combustion to ship heavy cars from Asia and Europe to North America? The Prius adherents ignore the global carbon trail and pollution left by extraction, international shipping, processing and more shipping of nickel to find its way into batteries and then automobiles that get…you guessed it…shipped again to our shores.
I’ve not owned an SUV, unless you count a couple of distant Jeeps (CJ & Wrangler). I have owned a couple of pickups and will get one again for its eminent utility.
I’m not a customer for any current Hummer, but I do like choice in the market. I really liked the small H3-based concept pickup from a few years ago with the single cab and the side door into the bed. In any case, all the caterwauling about trucks would seem more objective and sincere if we heard equal criticism of Lambos, Ferraris, Porsche Turbos, Mercedes AMGs, BMW M5s and dreadnought Seven Series, Veyons, piggy AWD Audis. And what about RX-8s and Subie turbos that barely turn in 15mpg in the real world?
Phil
I see my post was deleted. I want to re-iterate the fact that anthrax was sent to Tom Daschle’s office after 9-11. Hate to be political on a car site but the author started it.
people say that you can’t blame Bush for 9/11 because he was only in office for eight months. not true. he was president for eight months but only in office for about four months. the rest of the time he was golfing, running, holding ranch etc etc.
The Luigiian: “That’s why the Hummer sucks. If you want an off-roader, generally the Wrangler’s a better choice in my opinion. If you want a tough vehicle an F-150 would probably be a better option, in Lariat trim if you want luxury.”Yeah, that’s the reason the Hummer gets slammed all the time and is such an easy target. It doesn’t do just one thing badly, it does a lot of things really badly. In fact, the only thing it does really well is present a weak facade of false US bravado and machismo to the world, sort of like Bush himself. IOW, the automotive world’s equivalent of ‘The Ugly American’.
Funny to see the comment about Carter and Mondale “leaving something for Reagan”.
Nothing of the sort happened. Carter was the worst US President of modern times. He actually enabled the current political climate in Iran, with whom I believe we surely will be forced to go to war sometime in the next one or two Presidential terms.
Carter hurt our friends and helped our enemies. I’m left to wonder why he hasn’t been found guilty of Treason?
But beyond that, I blame Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. Nixon for the obvious reasons, but also Ford because Ford’s pardon of Nixon allowed Carter to be elected. Ford should not have stepped in. In doing so, he showed the world that there is an elite class that lives above the law, even in the United States. As a result, he lost his re-election bid to Carter.
re: “I suspect that the Iraq War…will be judged more positively in a few to several decades than is popular thinking now.”
Phil Ressler / July 31st, 2008 at 10:45 pm
how can you possibly conclude that illegally initiating a pre-emptive war-of-choice, under false premises, against an innocent people, primarily for the purpose of stealing their natural resources and manipulating their government for our own imperial objectives, will somehow be judged more positively in a few decades? especially once you take into consideration all of the lives lost and/or shattered and all of the treasure squandered?
how would you feel if any other country did the same thing to us?
re: “…I’m a horrible human being…I want to live in a strong country with imperial ambition…the resources and capabilities to achive it’s goals…sweeping decimating military power…I like them.”
morbo / July 31st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
?
If we are stealing natural resources why am i paying 4.21 a gallon to fill up my car?(haha, congress doing nothing has something to do with that probably)
The rest of that post is wrong. Just wrong.
I have a couple questions though…
How many more innocent AMERICANS would have needed to be killed for you to decide going to war was ok?
No one answered my earlier post. Here it is agian.
“Weren’t Dubya & Cheney in power on 09/11/01???”
I also believe a democrate house and senate were in power when gas got this high, mortgage crisis hit, and economy hit the fan…
The same congress gave fannie mae and freddie mac HUGE checks
The same congress hasn’t done anything to help gas prices
as a matter of fact, they havn’t done anything…at lleast dubya and cheney did SOMETHING(the correct ssomething actually)
@philipwitak
O.K., I was going to stay out of this but your last comment was just too much:
how can you possibly conclude that illegally initiating a pre-emptive war-of-choice, under false premises
Illegal?
How about more than a dozen UN Security Council resolutions, culminating in 1441, which clearly indicated that Iraq had to cooperate and comply or face consequences?
How about regieme change in Iraq being official U.S. policy since 1998 (under Clinton)?
How about congressional authorization of use of force to enact the above mentioned regieme change?
Illegal my a$$!
against an innocent people
Sorry pal, the war was against Hussein’s dictatorship, not against the Iraqi people.
primarily for the purpose of stealing their natural resources
Since we’re “stealing” all that oil, that must be why the price of crude is still only $45/bbl… Right?
manipulating their government for our own imperial objectives
Setting up a democratic system of government which is now, quite rightly, pushing to have U.S. forces out of thier country doesn’t really seem to be that great for our “imperialist objectives”. The Iranian Shah (you know, the one that Carter abandoned, allowing the radical muslim mullahs to take power) was what you get when the U.S. manipulates a government. It’s called ‘history’. Learn it…
how would you feel if any other country did the same thing to us?
You mean freed us from a tyrranical crazy person who fancied himself the modern Nebuchadnezzar? I guess I’d feel pretty good about it.
——————
I feel better, but I thought this website was “The Truth About Cars”… not “Random (and easily de-bunked) Bullshit About Politics”.
how can you possibly conclude that illegally initiating a pre-emptive war-of-choice, under false premises, against an innocent people, primarily for the purpose of stealing their natural resources and manipulating their government for our own imperial objectives, will somehow be judged more positively in a few decades? especially once you take into consideration all of the lives lost and/or shattered and all of the treasure squandered?
Congress approved the war, so I don’t see how it was illegal. The war was not against “innocent people” it was against Saddam Hussein and his terrorist friends (yes, there were links between Saddam and the terrorists).
If by “imperial objectives” you mean setting a country free from a murderous dictator so that they now vote in elections, then yes.
how would you feel if any other country did the same thing to us?
If we were living under someone like Saddam, who loved nothing more than filling mass graves, then I would be grateful.
how can you possibly conclude that illegally initiating a pre-emptive war-of-choice, under false premises, against an innocent people, primarily for the purpose of stealing their natural resources and manipulating their government for our own imperial objectives, will somehow be judged more positively in a few decades? especially once you take into consideration all of the lives lost and/or shattered and all of the treasure squandered?
how would you feel if any other country did the same thing to us?
“International Law” and law within a country’s domain aren’t the same thing. The “illegal” nature of the Iraq invasion won’t be much of a factor in the eventual historical judgment of the consequences. As for false premises, we did not go to war in Iraq for WMDs. This was simply the argument the Bush administration chose to use publicly, in part because Bush didn’t have the confidence to sell the real reason, and in part because there was sufficient common belief of Iraqi possession of WMDs to be a credible reason at the time. It was a lamentable mistake to use this as cover for other, more sound reasons.
The best proof that the invasion of Iraq was not undertaken to “steal their natural resources” is that we’ve done no such thing since. More to the point, we’re going to leave in time and we’re actively helping them build up their own military and are transferring security responsibility to them. No oil or other resource has been stolen by the US in this endeavor, nor will it be. If we had gone there to steal oil, we could have used our military to secure a few prime oil-producing regions and left the rest of the country to sort itself out. We didn’t do that.
The Iraq invasion was also not an imperial undertaking, nor does the United States behave as an imperial power would. We certainly try to maintain a sphere of order in the world, but the long-term occupation behavior of imperialism just isn’t sustained by the American record.
Notwithstanding the high value of individual lives, history doesn’t judge wars good or bad, nor the conduct of specific combatants, on the body count. Saddam Hussein was killing hundreds of thousands of his people at will. What apalled people in Dafur or Somalia, was overlooked in Iraq. Why is that? The Iraq War had an infinitesimal body count on our side. The Iraq Occupation’s body count by US forces has been small or moderate by historical standards, while the civilian casualties suffered by Iraqis has unfortunately reflected the consequences of guerrilla and terror tactics willfully conducted amongst the civilian population.
The American conduct of the occupation and suppressing the insurgency has involved many excesses and expensive mistakes, but no war is perfectly executed. Our campaign in Iraq will be judged by the consequences over an extended period of time. We’re too close to it to know, at the moment.
Phil
just to set the record straight.
re: “If we are stealing natural resources why am i paying 4.21 a gallon to fill up my car?”
Bugawho / August 1st, 2008 at 5:10 am
you are apparently assuming that getting control of iraqi oil would make it cheaper for americans. that would be wrong. the world’s oil companies are not achieving record profits by keeping the retail cost as low as possible for consumers, they are profiting at these historical levels by keeping costs as high as the market will bear.
and it is essential to note this: “june 20, 2008 exxon/mobil, british petroleum, shell and total set to sign deal with baghdad …the major oil companies have been eager to go back to Iraq…”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/ middle-east/oil-giants-return-to-iraq-851036.html
in the eyes of cowboy george and the big dick, that is ‘mission accomplished.’
re: “How many more innocent AMERICANS would have needed to be killed for you to decide going to war was ok?
Bugawho / August 1st, 2008 at 5:10 am
i have no problem whatsoever with any country’s right to retaliate after they have been attacked – that would be an act of self-defense and entirely justfied, as long as the attacked country didn’t provoke the attack in the first place and as long as the country attacked retaliates against the actual perpetrators of the original attack. as almost everybody knows – whether they are willing to admit it or not – iraq had nothing to do – repeat, nothing to do – with the 9/11 attacks against the united states.
re: “…Illegal? How about more than a dozen UN Security Council resolutions…How about regieme change in Iraq being official U.S. policy since 1998…How about congressional authorization of use of force to enact the above mentioned regieme change?
ret / August 1st, 2008 at 10:26 am
still illegal, even despite the three, rather weak ‘justifications’ you site. and immoral, too. waging war against sovereign nations and innocent people – that have done you no harm – simply because you want to and/or you are able to do so, is illegal.
re: “Sorry pal, the war was against Hussein’s dictatorship, not against the Iraqi people.”
try telling that to the tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have suffered and /or died – or were they just some sort of collateral damage? and once again: “Hussein’s dictatorship” had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks on the united states.
but even so, according to your misguided sense of logic, if we had the right to eradicate “Hussein’s dictatorship” because we did not like it or agree with it, then it follows that other countries would have that same sort of right to wage war against united states and destroy the bush administration if they didn’t happen to like and/or agree with it – yes? no?.
re: “You mean freed us from a tyrranical crazy person…I guess I’d feel pretty good about it.”
ret / August 1st, 2008 at 10:26 am
me too. 20 january 2009 can’t come soon enough. and by the way, you are not any pal of mine.
re: “‘International Law’ and law within a country’s domain aren’t the same thing.”
Phil Ressler / August 1st, 2008 at 10:43 am
agreed. so which would you think prevails in this case? did we launch an unprovoked attack against one of our own united states – or against a sovereign country?
re: “As for false premises, we did not go to war in Iraq for WMDs. This was simply the argument the Bush administration chose to use publicly, in part because Bush didn’t have the confidence to sell the real reason, and in part because there was sufficient common belief of Iraqi possession of WMDs to be a credible reason at the time.”
Phil Ressler / August 1st, 2008 at 10:43 am
quite a lot is now known about all of the false premises bush and cheney employed. they began with the realization that americans would be seeking retaliation for the 9/11 attacks, not with the threat of wmds. then it quickly became wmds. and then regime change. etc. etc. et al.
and each time the facts cast reasonable doubt or successfully refuted their claims, bush, cheney and their trusted band of neocon thugs introduced a new reason for why we went to war in iraq. you do realize all of the administration’s ‘evidence’ was false, don’t you?. and that they knew it all along.
this false information was used, not only to sell the war to a gullible american people at a time they were still disoriented, smarting from the 9/11 attacks and rightfully seeking some sort of justice – but they also used this false information to mislead and convince congress that it should grant the president wide and liberal authority to respond however he wished.
huge mistakes all around. but while some were honest mistakes, others were intentionally misleading and deceptive – simply because truth and justice would never justify the response that neocons had in mind all along.
for some factually accurate insight into all of this, readers with sufficient intellectual courage should review the ‘downing street memos,’ the ‘iraq hydrocarbon law’ and key documents – beginning with the mission statement – issued by the ‘pnac’ / ‘project for a new american century’.
google em. any of em. all of em. and expose yourselves to the truth.