Guess what? SUVs are dead and gone, nearly buried. Goodbye, nice knowing ya! When the future business case histories are completed, the research will show that while some people bought big boys to compensate for small johnsons or to venture off pavement, others purchased SUVs because they were a lot like station wagons. Sure we have CUVs (crossovers) to (kinda) plug the gap. But here's the thing, putting a sedan up on stilts adds weight — a lot of weight. Turning a 4-door into a 5-door? Not so much. A top spec Nissan Murano weighs in at 4,130 pounds whereas a fully optioned Altima sedan is just 3,292 lbs. 838 pounds of flabola. Of course, there's no Altima wagon, but we can look at Subaru. A Legacy 2.5 GT Limited (with auto) weighs 3,490 lbs. Compare that to the essentially identical Outback 2.5 XT Limited's 3,605 lbs. That's just 115 pounds, the weight of a healthy teenage girl. For fun, a Tribeca weighs 4,129 pounds. A slushbox Impreza 4-door weighs 3,131 pounds. The 5-door? The exact same (though… Subaru's website may be mistaken). Long story short, wagons offer the same amount of practical utility as CUV/SUVs and are inherently better on gas. Yet I don't see a single Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Chevy Malibu, Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion or Mazda 6 wagon. Not anywhere. Any thoughts?
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As these sedans become more USA-specific models, the trend will just get worse (negative wagons?). Mazda threw us a bone with the last 6 wagon since it was easy to toss a few on the boats. Making an 09 6 wagon will be a MUCH bigger undertaking and 100% not worth it for them. That’s a shame.
Other than Subaru, I guess only VW is in the mid-market wagon game [Jetta and Passat].
Such a shame. Wagons make so much more sense!!
It’s that pesky image problem. CUV’s are cool, wagons, not so much. Folks will come around, I suspect, especially now that many of the wagons out there these days are exceptional cars.
Until the CAFE light truck exemption is well and truly dead, this will continue. It’s just too cheap for manufacturers to ignore.
Heck, even after that, we’ve got a decade and a half of marketing and product-planning inertia to overcome. People have been thoroughly sold on the xUV and that kind of marketing is hard to roll back.
There’s some value to building tall boxes: you get a lot more room than in a low-rider (witness the effective space of the Honda Fit versus the European Honda Civic). What we don’t need is tall boxes with an accompanying high load floor, all-wheel drive and eight inches of ground clearance.
Seriously, when was the last time anyone needed more than four inches? (yeah, yeah, I know…)
Re: Sammy B: And SAAB. Also an ’09 Mazda 6 wagon is easy, as they do make it. Just not for the US market. There are many such wagons in the world, just none that we can buy here.
This is why I drive an old SAAB 9-5. It’s a roomy,comfortable, enjoyable, fuel-efficient wagon with a manual tranny.
I would must rather have the new Mercedes-Benz C-Class wagon over the mechanically-identical (but probably heavier) GLK they are sending stateside. At least BMW offers the X3 and the 3-Series wagon here, but I don’t find the current 3-Series wagon particularly attractive (hopefully the upcoming refresh will bring the grill and taillights closer to those on the coupe).
They’re in Europe.
This pains me to say this, but when it comes to this issue, we Americans are dumb as bricks. I was talking to a buddy who leases an S60 and after telling him I test drove the A3 and loved it, he said he’d never consider it because he’s a single guy with an image and the A3’s a wagon. Did I mention he’s driving a Volvo?
Is that your S4?
I was hauled around in a 54 Suburban which morphed into VW buses as a youngun’. When I was the hauler not the haulee, I used a pair of Ford faux wood wagons. A 73 Gran Torino Squire with a 351 Cleaveland was my favorite. Later we discovered the Jeep Grand Wagoneers. We used them to cart the goons et al to the beach and they were great in snow.
After years of sneering at Caravans, I accompanied 6 other adults to a restaurant in a 2000 Caravan. . I was in the rear seat with 2 others. It was a very adequate people mover.
The BMW X5 and its ilk remind me more of mini-vans than SUVs
I was also wondering when are wagons going to return? I’d rather have a wagon then a sedan, as I hate trying to fit something big into a trunk! IMHO, the best looking wagon was the Magnum. So is Dodge still going to kill it off over the Durango/ Aspen?
I also recall that their was an Accord wagon years ago… like in the early 90’s.
I think one of the issues here is the availability of crossovers. Consumers have been trained to want them, and automakers favor them due to the high profit margins vs. wagon versions of bread and butter sedan. The Mazda CX-9 for instance probably has a transaction price in the mid $30K range, wheras a Mazda6 wagon would most likely be in the low $20K range.
Bottom line, until an automaker puts out a wagon that turns out to be a blockbuster hit in the US, why risk losing the more profitable crossover sales.
baabthesaab: I put Saab, Volvo, and Audi in more of the “luxury” wagon market. Basically, north of $30K [new].
The 2009 Mazda6 is going to be US-specific. The smaller European version will have the wagon. So adding a wagon variant to our 09 6 wagon will be a slightly greater undertaking. For the 04-07 6 wagon, it was just a matter of some paperwork [no additional engineering or anything].
I drive an 05 6 wagon for for the same reasons you drive yours! Finding that thing with a manual transmission was a chore!
people (women, small men with small johnsons) like the “on stilts” effect that SUVs provide them.
A wagon is still at the same level as the other plebians.
Where are the wagons you ask? In my garage! An Audi A3, Subaru WRX wagon, and yes, a PT Cruiser. Compact size, small but potent engines (OK, not so much the PT) and fully reconfigurable cargo space (altho my son put a 12-inch subwoofer in the Subie.) As for the wagon stigma, my household would not be caught dead driving sedans!
Wagons will return when CAFE doesn’t give bonus points to light trucks or when fuel is so expensive CAFE becomes irrelevant.
Also, another reason “vehicles on stilts” are popular is that people think they are safer. Regardless of actual safety, the customer’s perception is what sells vehicles. And, truth be told, if you were going to be T-boned by a “vehicle on stilts” wouldn’t you also want to be on stilts too or would you rather have the other vehicle’s bumper aimed squarely at your window and head?
hatchbacks have made their return. Fit, Matrix, Mazda3, A3, Spectra5, etc.
Full-fledged (and full-priced) wagons will take another 5 years.
The A4 Avant looks beautiful, though. That’s one wagon I wouldn’t mind owning.
Growing up in the 60’s in surburban LI my mom had a wagon — as did lots of the moms. It’s what you had even with just two kids. The house required endless trips to the lumber yard, hardware store etc. (I even remember my father putting gravel in the back because he saw the plans for a firepit somewhere). When my partner & I bought our house we knew we’d need something that could schlep stuff. VW, Subarau or Volvo wagon. Him: I’ll neer be seen driving a station wagon again. This from a person that had a gold Contour mind you.
His mom does live on the otherside of the cascade mountains and we see her monthly which does mean about 4 months of ice and snow on the pass–so we rationalized and bought a Forester. Nothing wrong but what looks sleeker a Passet or Volvo C30 or a mini SUV?
Double checked Sammy B, and even Subaru isn’t showing a Legacy wagon in their 2009 range.
So let’s throw it out there: who sells wagons in the U.S. anymore? Real, normal-ride-height wagons? Audi, BMW, Benz, Saab, Volvo, Volkswagen, Kia(?), and Subaru’s Impreza.
The Dodge Magnum received a lot of attention for its practicality. Crappy design and build quality sunk it and now nobody else makes a full size wagon because they can point to this failure.
If you put the V50, Jetta, Impreza, 9-3 and Kia’s down as too small for family CUV/minivan replacements then you’re left with the Passat or a huge price jump other models.
I have two kids still using various baby carriers and convertible seat systems and I really want more interior room than what those smaller wagons offer. I’d rather not buy a Volkswagen (unless the Passat proves much more reliable than anything else VW sells). I can’t justify spending $40k+ on a near/premium brand. I really do not want to buy a CUV and the extra 200 to 500 lbs of mass included. I am not going to buy a 7-8 passenger minivan to haul around 3/4 people 98% of the time.
The closest thing to an answer is a quick U.S. conversion of the Holden Sportwagon. Sure, it’s nice Jalopnik got their friends at GM to bring the Ute over but it’s the answer to a question asked only by a few SSR owners looking for a new fix. The Sportwagon not only looks good but it is a legitimate alternative to the crossover craze. The V8 run as efficiently as most V6 SUV/CUV pigs because it hauls less weight and simultaneously offers betters performance.
Where are the small wagons?
While our ‘91 corolla all-track wagon keeps running strong, the writing on the wall is not hard to miss, or hear for that matter, with 200K it is not going to last forever.
The Matrix and the Impreza feel bloated in comparison to that old thing. The Focus would be an option if it came as a wagon; while something size of the Yaris would be ideal.
Throw in a hybrid option or a 4wd and I would be writing out a check!
Despite Ford’s billing of it as a “crossover SUV”, the new Ford Flex is a station wagon. Period.
gamper has the definitive answer to this QOTD. Why no wagons? Just follow the money (or lack thereof) regarding what more wagons would do to any manufacturers’ bottom line.
Who remembers Lutz’s justification for not selling the Holden Sportwagon in the US?
And though the news of the Dodge Magnum’s death surfaced a long time ago you can still buy one new with tweaked styling, interior and more options right now.
It’s also too bad Ford is pulling the plug on the Taurus X, it’s one wagon that deserves a redesign and all the promotion it can get.
CAFE killed the big American wagon, pure & simple.
Note that the Dodge Magnum is listed to the EPA as an SUV, strictly for CAFE purposes.
Little wagons ahould never have gone away. The Matrix/Vibe carried the torch for a while, but the ’09 is more of a CUV.
If Toyota brought back the Corolla wagon, they’d sell zillions. The ’09 Matrix ain’t it.
I’d buy one in a heartbeat. Something similar to my I30 like the JDM Cefiro Wagon.
The problem is the type name. “Wagon” is so 19th century. What should it be called for this century?
Urban Assault Vehicle? Country Hauler? Utility Sedan?
When I was a teen, my grandparents had a Cavalier wagon–it had no power and no style, but it was versatile.
My next vehicle will probably be a wagon, and it’ll also be diesel powered. Unfortunately, that leaves VW as the only choice at the moment. Right now I have a Jetta sedan, but I’d love to have the utility of a wagon. I looked at a Jetta TDI wagon 5 years ago, but the price was too high for me at the time. I’ll probably be looking for a new car in the next 5 years, so I’ll just wait for all the wagons from other manufacturers to start appearing. I won’t hold my breath though. As it is now, older Passat and Jetta wagons (especially TDIs) are extremely rare, and sellers are able to almost sell them for what they originally paid. Try doing that with an SUV or a crossover. The quicker more wagons start appearing on dealer lots, the better. But for now I’ll just keep waiting. I don’t like the look of the Jetta Sportwagen (aka “it’s a wagon, but we can’t tell that to the Americans).
Why would Honda sell a $20-25K Accord wagon when they can sell a $25-30K Pilot instead?
Why should Toyota sell a $20-25K Camry wagon when they can sell a $25-30K Highlander instead?
You get the idea. As long as we Americans are too stupid to buy wagons, they will continue to go the way of the Magnum.
TriShield Says:
And though the news of the Dodge Magnum’s death surfaced a long time ago you can still buy one new with tweaked styling, interior and more options right now.
It’s also too bad Ford is pulling the plug on the Taurus X, it’s one wagon that deserves a redesign and all the promotion it can get.
The new Magnum interior is right out of the Charger and is definitely better. Still, it is a polarizing design and lack of options in the segment should not be blamed on problems with a single model. I never wanted a wagon with a truck face anyway.
The Freestyle/Taurus X is barely a wagon. It has a wagon shape but Ford can’t help giving it crossover looks, huge crossover tires, and a crossover label. I can’t tell if the extra 6″ height over the Taurus is purely due to the roof rack.
15 years from now, all these kids who grew up with SUVs will associate them with the dowdy family car image that wagons had when their parents were growing up. At that point, when the new generation needs a vehicle to put their groceries in and that will fit the car seat, they will turn to the cool new choice-wagons. SUVs and CUVs will go the way of the mini-van.
I’ll go ahead and be politically incorrect and say what nobody is willing to say, it’s all due to the fickle nature of female consumers.
All those suburban moms would rather think of themselves as MILFs than soccer moms, but they still need a vehicle that can drive car pool. They bailed out of minivans when those started become the symbol of domesticity, moving to SUVs to show how big their balls were. With the popularity of green consumerism, those same suburban women moved from SUVs to CUVs, as they recycled juice boxes and bottled water bottles.
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose. A full size station wagon in the early 1970s, weighed about two tons and could carry 6-8 people. Most 7 passenger SUVs, CUVs and minivans weigh about two tons.
The problems is that station wagons are even more of a sterotypical mommobile than a minivan, so it’s going to be interesting to see if financial concerns over the cost of gas will outweigh concerns over self image.
Though, when prestige and status are clear, like with BMW, Mercedes or Volvo wagons, women have no problem driving them.
I’ve discovered that my Volvo V70 wagon holds as much as a Ford F-150 pickup. Especially when you remove the rear seat and let the bed lay flat.
The only problem is, that being a front-wheel drive vehicle, I have to be extra careful with the weight distribution. A heavy load causes the front wheels to float a bit, which in turn causes traction failure.
I still see some old Oldsmobile Cutlass wagons on the road and wonder if I should buy one to replace my aging Volvo.
Joe Ego:
Yah, it’s too bad Subaru killed the normal ride-height wagon. That Outback Wagon doesn’t do much for me. But it’s not nearly as bad as a CUV. I’ll give them credit for still making a turbo 5MT version, though!
Amen SherbornSean! This is exactly the reason, along with CAFE rules that virtually nobody sells a wagon.
Some have mentioned the Mazda6 and I think that is another great example. You can sell the CX7/CX9 for $30 – $45k + or sell the Mazda6 wagon for $25-30k.
The additional key for the manufacturer is that in many cases the actual cost to build is virtually no different (maybe an additional $500 to a $1000?). So the margin is much bigger. And if I go back to the traditional SUV (Explorer, 4Runner, Yukon, Suburban, etc) the content (luxuries)relative to the manufacturers sedans wasn’t even close…so as a consumer I was buying something that was dumbed down in nearly every way compared to the sedan but I was paying more for it and smiling all the way. Once again, this is why GM/Ford/Chrysler are suffering mightily with the current environment.
Manufacturers told us a long time ago that a SUV/CUV (the difference is negligible) are worth more and you should pay more for them due to some unseen value that I personally have yet to discover. And we, the idiotic citizenry purchased them in droves. So now that the SUV craze is over there is no way the manufacturers give up years of succuessfully telling us what we want so they create the “CUV” that BARELY gets better mileage then the SUV and still has considerably lower MPG’s then the sedan/wagon would have. All the while the utility is not significantly better than the wagon but for the reasons mentioned above the manufacturers understandably will not give them to us.
Using Mazda again as an example, I can guarantee that we will not see the Mazda6 wagon until the CX7 and CX9 become drains on the balance sheet for a considerable amount of time (Mazda is part of Ford so I would expect it to take a while)…and I’d be surprised if that isn’t already happening.
Until this changes I suppose I’ll have to drive my ’05 Subaru Legacy LTD GT MT into the ground. I’ve already had one too many VW’s to pay a near-premium price for junk…even if it is a wagon.
I’ve got a brother with an MDX and I can’t convince him that a wagon is the way to go with the next car. Heck, I can barely convince my wife.
I’m with seoultrain on this one: hatchbacks are making a HUGE comeback now. As powertrains cease to be a horsepower war but a fuel economy war you will see more economical options in larger vehicles.
In five years or so when the current group of Fit, Yaris, A3 buyers get older they will want something roomier with more features and more status. They will be looking for even more utility than they have now and they will find it in a “Touring” or “Estate” model.
I, for one, want a 1.8L diesel powered Honda Accord wagon to come to the States. That would be ideal.
Until then, I will continue soldiering on with my ’95 E320 Estate. :)
I think that Keith Bradsher nailed it in his anti-SUV polemic, High and Mighty.
Aside from the (few) practical buyers who choose sport utilities for their actual utility, a lot buy them either out of aggression (a desire to dominate others and strut their stuff) and/or fear (concerns about other drivers, desire for safety.)
For the latter group, the sense of safety comes from vehicle size and height. Nevermind that the height raises the center of gravity and increases rollover risk, the psychological benefit comes from being above everyone else.
In these days of high fuel costs, people may be willing to sacrifice the size, but the CUV’s allow them to indulge their fears and keep the height. Wagons are at car height, so they aren’t a suitable alternative to the timid who want to be jacked up into the air.
We have a whole generation of young people who were raised on SUV’s. To them, SUV’s are normal. It’s going to take awhile to work that out of our systems.
I suspect that a lot of twentysomethings are pining away for trucks, not cars, and we’ll have to raise the next generation in order to break the cycle. Only high fuel costs are going to keep them away, and they’ll be driving SUV’s again as soon as they get the chance.
It’s a shame. Wagons are practical and useful, not to mention much better platforms for spirited driving. To wit… some of the machinery we’ve been deprived of: Audi RS6 Avant, upcoming A4 Avant (in anything other than the pedestrian Tiptronic 4-banger). Unfortunately, some damn good wagons have come and been forsaken (Legacy, Mazda6), leaving us with nothing but rolling marshmallows (CUVs).
It’s a tragedy the Legacy GT Wagon is no more… I have the OBXT, and while damn fast, the handling is lousy – something the LGT excelled at. The ground clearance and step-in height payoff was not worth it. Hindsight…
The problem is how many wagons are there with three rows of seats? I can think of one, the dinky Mazda5. Small children have to sit in the 2nd and 3rd rows. So if you tote more than 3 kids you have to have a 3 row vehicle. Wagons are only for hauling up to 3 (small) kids.
26…
This discussion doesn’t really affect those that have 3+ kids. There will always be a (small) legitimate need for larger vehicles. But that’s a niche, and should never have been the norm. Growing up in Europe, I just assumed hatchbacks and wagons were the normal family fare. Coming back to the US was a culture shock! I suppose it comes from years of people in the US perceiving hatchs and wagons as cheap bottom-feeder cars, used only by college kids and hippies. I love hatchbacks, but even I fought this battle recently when we bought our Fusion. Wife wanted a “grown up” car and not a toy. For too long, America has been fed a constant diet of cheap gas and studly images of people driving big ass SUV’s. We all bought into it (as witnessed by the general focus of the Big 2.8 on SUVs until recently) completely. Now we’re paying for it. I truly hope things turn around and that we find out there is true joy in driving a nimble, efficient and practical wagon…but I ain’t holdin’ my breath!
A lot of wagons were pulled from the US market because they didn’t sell. The author answered his own question- Americans bought Truck-o-saurus SUVs to use as wagons! Why buy a car-based wagon that drives like a sedan and has a 4- or 6-cylinder when you could have a 6.0L V8 Suburban 4×4 or a 5.4L V8 Expedition that barely gets half the MPG! Bigger is better, especially when you are too naive or ignorant to consider how ridiculous they are!
The Accord wagon lasted from ’91 thru ’97, Camry wagon was around from ’87 thru ’96. Mitsubishi even had a wagon version of their premium mid-size Diamante that was sold here from ’93 to ’95. Mazda introduced both a wagon AND a 5-door hatchback version of the Mazda6 in 2004, but dropped the wagon at the end of ’06 due to poor sales. Can’t say they didn’t try!
There have been a few makes that have stuck with wagons when the others had to bail. Volvo and Subaru have consistently offered multiple wagon models. The VW Passat has been available as a wagon for years and VW is bringing us the Jetta Sportwagen for ’09. The Saab 9-5 has also had a wagon in the mix for years and the 9-3 added a wagon a few years ago.
The compact/subcompact class is where all the wagon-like (my Mazda3 is a 5-door, not a wagon DAMMIT! =) options seem to be. The following offer either a 5-door or wagon bodystyle- Audi A3/A4, BMW 3-series, Chevy Aveo, Chevy HHR, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Dodge Caliber, Kia Rio & Spectra, Hyundai Elantra (this fall), Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, Mazda3, Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, Suzuki SX4, Scion xB & xD, Subaru Impreza and Suzuki (Daewoo) Forenza. Wagon versions of the Mitsubishi Lancer and a 5-door Toyota Yaris are also due this fall.
To heat up the discussion: Guess how many of the Ford Mondeos sold in Germany are sedans?
…
No, only 2%.
Tell ya what, make something look like a Volvo 1800ES and wagons would be cool. I mean if the Saint (Roger Moore) got married he’s drive one I bet. Alas the C-30 tries…but misses.
My wife does not want a minivan but she would sooner buy a CUV than a compact anything for driving around with two kids.
The whole 5-door and compact wagon concept sells well because it can look better than a small sedan and it can feel better to have more interior volume in a small car, even if you can’t (legally) sit in the load area.
It appears the wagon market is at low tide. Hopefully it will not be too long before a resurgence in mid and full size wagons. And hopefully we are not stuck with ugly roof hacks like the old Camry and Accord models or the previous gen Commodores in Australia.
I sent an email to Mazda N.A. Corporate earlier today asking if the US market will only be getting the 4-door Mazda6 or if a 5-door or Wagon are possible. The response was mostly vague corporate BS, but it did say that I wasn’t the first US consumer to express interest and that they were monitoring the changing demands driven by the slow economy and rising fuel costs.
In most other major markets, the new Mazda6 is sold in 4-door, 5-door AND Wagon bodystyles. I just looked at the mazda.co.uk (Mazda UK) website and the Wagon is a real looker! I already loved the look of the new 4-door, but the wagon may actually look even better than the sedan!
Automakers will gradually start to roll out more wagon or hatchback options, but it’s been less than a year since the bottom fell out of the SUV market. None of them have had enough time to roll out a new wagon (even if it already existed elsewhere).
Another thought- the automakers’ sense of urgency to get wagons onto US roads may be tempered by the sobering fact that most current SUV owners are stuck with their fuel-swilling tanks for the forseeable future…they’ll never be able to unload them, so they’ll have to drive them until they’re paid off before buying a more economical, mid-size or full-size wagon. =(
And you think Ford couldn’t be selling Focus wagons (and hatchbacks) in the current market. The Focus wagon was pretty much alone in its market niche.
I think CUVs have the stink of their bigger SUV brothers in the marketplace now; sales are dropping on many, if not most, of them, although not nearly as much as their body-on-frame counterparts. Problem is, when all the new CUVs were designed, three years ago or so, they didn’t have such a stink. I’ll bet we’ll see a lot of wagons and five door hatchbacks-in about three years.
Another question-what exactly is the difference between a hatchback and a wagon? I drive a 2006 Scion xA, which is a hatchback. However, it looks exactly like a 7/8ths scale 2006 Toyota Matrix, which is a wagon. Is a wagon merely a bigger hatchback?
Wagons ARE cool, Family Truckster be damned. What exactly is the stigma? I’ve always loved wagons, always will. We sat 10 people legally in a Country Squire back in the day. What I don’t get are sedans. What is the point? Drive 5 people around, and…? What about Home Depot? Vacations? Moving your brother in law? It’s like not having a roof rack. Pshaw!
I was wagon shopping last fall. I would have had no excuse NOT to buy a Prius wagon, but they don’t exist (thank God). Nothing at all from Toyota or Honda. The Jetta wasn’t out yet (still isn’t?) and we wound up in a V50, a happy place BTW. Just got 30 MPG fully loaded with stuff on the roof on a 250 mile drive. Take that CRV et al.
people (women, small men with small johnsons) like the “on stilts” effect that SUVs provide them.
Just what is it with some peoples preoccupation with the size of other’s “johnsons”?
There ARE people who do things that require the attributes of a true 4WD body on frame vehicle.
My wife is on peritoneal dialysis, a condition that requires us to carry a fairly large amount of consumable fluids and equipment. Recently purchased a new 4Runner (V6, 16/20mpg).
It would be great if it was more fuel efficient, but we will be traveling throught the American western mountains, Alaska, and the Canadian Yukon territory. The wife’s Camry is a nice car, but not something I would like to tackle a trip like that in.
Snide comments about what other folks drive are not particularly helpful. Or is it that the high MPG crowd are measuring their own “johnsons” by that standard? Sounds rediculous doesn’t it.
Suzuki(Daewoo)Forenza is a normal wagon. It isn’t a good car though. I’d prefer an SUV, the “on stilts” feel is addicting.
When you think about it, the height of your head while driving the average CUV/SUV is still lower than a bicycle or horse. It’s about where your head is while walking. Maybe the position you take while driving a modern sedan is what is abnormal.
Non-car people just hate wagons, thats half the reason why the damn suv was invented (the other half being the mini-van). I recently tried to convince a family member of mine who was looking at full sized suv’s to check out some wagons instead. Every time I pointed out a model he’d tell me that it looked like a hearse, frustrating. With Ford (and to a lesser extent GM) promising to bring more of their Euro models to the US, maybe more people will get exposed to wagons and their inherit advantages.
In response to joe_thousandaire, There was a 1970s attempt to make a herse a wagon.
http://www.cadillacstationwagon.com/1970/1/OPT140001.jpg
Until that faux wood is glued to the sides don’t expect the masses, huddled, freedom yearning, to go ape over wagons.
I notice a lot of mid-90’s Ford Escort wagons on the road. They get really good gas mileage and have hardly any flab at all. Mine is a ’96 and always proves to have just the right amount of space for hauling stuff around.
Toyota does wagon/hatchbacks. Upcoming Venza is a Camry wagon. Rumor has it that Lexus will unveil a wagon based on the prius mechanicals next year. it will be interesting for those who drive long distances in city traffic and would like some comfort.
I have never understood this, especially since i’ve travelled in europe. I always marvel at all the different kinds of cars there, but few sedans or suv’s. The suv’s because they are gas hogs, that makes sense. Station wagons and hatchbacks of every size and configuration are all over the place.
Personally, I drive a VW Golf, which is after all a small station wagon, because I rented on one on a trip to France. What a revealtion! So fun, so useful. Here, people buy big fat cars on stilts, no fun to drive, horrible fuel use. I have never understood that.
And I dont beleive that the problem is that there are none to buy – VW has offered wagons here, so have a few other makers. People just dont seem to like them. I dont know why.
I owned a wagon for years and considered it akin to a pickup truck with enclosed bed. I could get 8 foot pieces of things inside and even slept in it a few times. Mine also had a rear seat, true 3rd row seating, that adults could ride in.
Kids loved to ride in the 3rd seat.
I haven’t read through the posts so this may have been covered. But i predict we’ll see loads more wagons the next few years, once the trends for cuvs and minivans have further demised due to rising gas, and people realise you can cover a lot of needs with a wagon, (people also get by in europe with more practical hatchbacks instead of this sedan/saloon nonsense). If my wife wasn’t such a snob we’d have one now. wagons not cool, have you seen the S4 versions?!!
As for me i look forward to the zafiras, picasso’s and c-maxs making their way here. look to europe and you’ll see the future trends for here in the next few years.
The garage I lust after has both a WRX wagon and a S4 Avant. Both will average about 24mpg in mixed cycle driving and the S4 gets terrific mileage at 55mph on the interstate. Plus they have turbo goodness and the ability to perform in all weather conditions.
How can we get that RS4 avant pictured at the top in the states?? I know we can’t but I sure wish it were available.
The original dodge caravan with its reasonably good fuel mileage and greater people /cargo capacity seemed to have signaled the demise of the traditional wagon. It continues today our Odyssey gets better mileage and carries more people/stuff than the Allroad it replaced. Three kids in car seats made this switch a necessity for us. I for one would love to see a reasonably sized wagon with rear/awd and some stow and go style third row seating – preferably with a six speed and european handling….
I’ve been contending for a while now that you’ll know when America is serious about getting good gas milage when the midsize wagon makes a comeback.
A Camry/Accord/Malibu wagon front wheel drive with snow tires will be the new Tahoe.
Full disclosure, We’ve had a manual Legacy GT wagon for 3 years now and wouldn’t trade it for anything at this point.
We’ve had loads of wagons over the years.
My favorite was a 2000 Volvo V70 with all the options and a very long list of dealer maintenance.
On a 2000 mile trip through South Carolina, one third city / two thirds hwy, we averaged 30.5 mpg.
I’ve had Mercedes, BMW, Subaru (at least 6 Outbacks), Ford/Mercury and even a classic Peugeot 505. None of them were as good as the Volvo. Although I could see the Outback as a worthy alternative for those who want a more sporty driving experience.
So… Do all the TTAC readers with wagons need wagon mafia stickers or something?
I just got an Astra and I need something to stick on it.
The problem is wagons don’t have the space people are accustomed to. There really aren’t any large wagons anymore at least not ones that don’t cost over $40k. The last two cars in my household were an 03 Nissan Murano and an 02 Subaru Outback. The Murano had significantly more space and returned a consistent 22mpg (AWD).
Even if there were large wagons I don’t think you’d get many to buy them. For example, I have 5 passengers going for a week long beach vacation. I’m going to have a hard enough time packing everyone and everything we need into a Honda Odyssey. I couldn’t imagine doing it in a wagon, actually it probably couldn’t be done. Two are still in booster/kid seats.
Now for those that didn’t need an SUV anyway then wagons may be an option. People still like to have a high seating position and ease of entry that vans and CUV’s offer. It’s going to be a hard sell in the U.S.
Here’s an example from a few years ago…you could buy a BMW 540i wagon and pay a $1300 gas guzzler tax, or buy a BMW X5 4.4i, which is arguably less practical, and not pay a $1300 gas guzzler tax.
Then there’s all the marketing, that plays up the “toughness” of the SUV…
scicarb: Which S4 do you have? I was under the impression both the B5 and B6 were both a bit of a gas guzzler.
Unfortunately, Nissan discontinued the Stagea wagon. If they ever re-introduced it in the USA as a G35x wagon, I would buy one. Hopefully, the price of fuel will encourage wagon sales, and manufacturer will rethink their strategies.
I think a lot of the problem is with the marketers. The Forester IS a wagon, not a CUV or an SUV. There are a lot of other wagons, Volvos, Sube Impreza and legacy, Audis, etc. And give the car companies a few years to get more in the lineup. they will.
The other problem of course has been the CAFE truck loophole. Gas prices have only just begin to deal with that.
Speaking as a late-twenty-something, I’d be quite happy to drive a wagon, and I consider myself image-conscious when it comes to cars. I don’t really think of modern wagons as having a lot in common image-wise with the big old wagons people drove while I was growing up.
Personally, I wouldn’t be caught dead driving an SUV unless I felt I was genuinely making use of its capabilities (off-roading, etc.) and I think the SUV’s a bit of a pariah vehicle for a lot of the people in my age group – it’s already gaining the dowdy-family-car image that Detroit-Iron mused about. Give me a V70 – or a Mazda 6 wagon, for that matter – over an Escalade any day of the week. I appreciate that there are people who really need an SUV/truck, and I won’t dump on them as I have a beef myself with urbanites who forge ahead with their “green agenda” with no regard for rural concerns.
‘course, the SUV-as-pariah is somewhat a function of my particular social group, and I won’t deny that there’s a segment of urbanites around my age who think SUVs are the bee’s knees. I think (read: hope) the price of gas will put paid to that, though, and that manufacturers will realize that some of us young’ns want utility without the urban-SUV image and associated fuel consumption.
Up until last year, Chevy built a nice mid-sized wagon alternative, the Malibu Maxx. 112″ WB, plenty of room for kids, huge hatch back, all but the driver’s eat folds down for a very long load floor. Ours gets about 29MPG in freeway driving.
Granted, it’s not super high-tech, but it’s a nice size for those who need the passenger space and the versatility. Our other choice would have been a Focus wagon, but, they are no longer produced.
Depreciation can be your friend—we bought a year old (<8k miles on odometer) 9-5 Linear wagon a few years ago for $25k. Since then we’ve put nearly 70k miles on it. The automatic was not our first choice, but OTOH keeping it in Sport mode works very well with the turbo-4’s power curve and staying with traffic on the interstate isn’t a big deal. My sons are now teens and just around 6 feet tall, but they still fit comfortably in the back seat. Even hauling all of us and our stuff for a week’s trip, it’s easy enough to average 32-34 mpg at a sustained 70 mph or so. Sure there’s ‘nicer’ cars out there that aren’t so long in the tooth, but my reading is that so many cars need to shed some pounds and cylinders if they want to get similar fuel consumption, and even then may not have the space the 9-5 gives us.
Watched a salesman and customer try to squeeze a big TV (CRT I guess) into the rear seat of a Sunbird four door for 5 mins the other day.
Door wouldn’t open far enough, maybe the door jamb wasn’t big enough… Box would not fit between the top of the trunk and the floor (under the glass).
I can’t imagine why anybody would want a small four door sedan instead of a small four door wagon… HEAR THAT DOMESTIC AUTO MAKERS?
Admittedly in the recent past decade there have been some really ugly small wagons on the market but I’m not convinced that the manufacturers didn’t want to encourage us to buy the SUV sitting next to it… VBG!
We bought a new ’99 CR_V way back when b/c we wanted a Honda and there were no Honda wagons to be had. Its been great but $4 gas has encouraged us to think about replacing it at around 200K with a small wagon or hatchback. 39K miles to go… If it continues to be a good car we’ll keep driving it though.
It’s that pesky image problem. CUV’s are cool, wagons, not so much.
I find CUVs stupid. Or at least horribly ugly. The Murano???! The Infiniti version is not much better. This is marketer-driven. I mean, just say cross-over utility vehicle three times in a row. The name is as stupid as the vehicle. Wagons, on the other hand, the BMW, Audi, Volvo, VW, and Subaru wagons are just as cool as the sedans. The people who buy CUVs are sheeple.
factotum says:
The problem is the type name. “Wagon” is so 19th century. What should it be called for this century?
If that’s the case than Boston and New York and Portland (ME) and Portland (OR) had better change their names, because those names are so UK. Names often have fascinating historical roots.
As for the magnum, its problem is those slit windows. Who wants to drive (or ride in) a car you can’t see out of, no matter how coolly thuggish it looks? Despite the way that sounds, I like the look. But I’d like it more if the windows were bigger.
Very interesting discussion. I’ve had conversations recently with many friends on the same topic.
I’ve driven and owned many wagons, and the crossovers (Matrix XRS) and SUVs (Jimmy, 4Runner) I’ve owned were treated as wagons, too.
I now enjoy my E46 3-Series wagon more than any other car I’ve owned. I purchased 3 years old for nearly half what it sold for new. Depreciation on wagons is very favorable to used buyers.
Like a previous comment, I see my wagons as enclosed pickups and often drive with rear seats folded, for dogs, large loads or because I don’t often have rear passengers.
When I think of wagon, I think Volvo. But we have plenty of pseudo-wagons around under $30 like the Toyota Matrix and all these hatchbacks. Very similar. So who needs a Altima or Malibu wagon?
Hmmmm
This CUV / SUV problem is a disease on the market place.
Wagons should rule the world!
Ive seen the Mazda 6 hatch and wagon on the market.. but it got canned.
Ya ask the dingus over at Mazda why.. and he will point to the Escape badged Tribute in the corner, or the CX7, or the CX9…
Funny, ya got 3 Suvs / jacked up wagons sitting over there with 1 fullsize regular wagon.. and ya can it cause its got competition against itself.
All I know is when my 00 Accord is ready to go.. Im pickin up a Mazda 3 5dr hatch.
Better than a Civic, cause Civic has no hatch and more interior design.
Better than the Accord, cause SOMEONE BEEN FEEDIN IT too many damn doughnuts!
But thats alright… Imma trade in the Mazda 3 5dr hatch when the Civic 5dr for the US comes..
My fiance and I had a multi fasceted discussion…
She was looking at the Escape for a larger vehicle
But the discussion broke down to the point that its just not worth buying.
1.We checked out 5 different car sites that each gave a different GVWR / Curb weight for a 1st and 2nd gen Escapes.
2. It doesnt make any sense to have a 2wd unit of the current generation. Its just too damn big.
3. The Current Escape is as big as the last Exploder and sticking a hybrid system in there, or a 4cycl unit it just pointless. The vehicle is just too damn big, with a motor thats trying to be efficient.
So in the end, the current escape is too damn big, doesnt make good use of a hybrid battery unit (3-5g) hurts fuel economy rather than help it.
And we’d never use it as designed. I mean honestly.. how many people have actually used it in the snow as designed.
I keep telling her… go for the Focus 5dr Hatch in 2010. Its better looking, has the 2wd unit, is less weight than an Escape, and doesnt have any of the inefficiencies of that overblown obese POS!
My future… driveway…
Her a 2010 Focus 5dr
Me.. 08, 09, 10 Mazda 5dr hatch..
Hatches just do the job better and with out the wweight and bs.
Where are we finding a Legacy wagon? Not in the states sadly. I make a point of announcing to all I know, when I find an LGT (manual especially) for sale.