CNBC reports that Toyota is revising its sales estimates for 2008. ToMoCo had projected sales of 9.85m units worldwide. They've dropped expectations by 300k, setting a new goal of 9.5m units. Though sales are down in Europe and Japan, Toyota is blaming the stagnant American market for the expected decrease. Having already announced production cuts at three US plants, this could be bad news for Toyota's bid to become the global volume sales leader– were it not for the fact that its competitor for the title is General Motors. While Toyota is still likely to outstrip GM despite the sales goal cutback, it's unlikely to meet GM's single-year sales record of 9.55m set back in 1978. ToMoCo shares are currently underperforming even the weak Japanese transport equipment subindex, thanks to sell-offs in anticipation of slowing demand. But, Naoki Fujiwara, fund manager at Shinkin Asset Management, reckons that Toyota's high dividend and long-term positioning make it a good buy. Roger that.
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
I’m just waiting for the GM fanbois to use this .97% drop in projected global sales to justify the domestics collapse.
This is like when PeeWee Herman trips over his platform shoes and says, “I meant to do that.”
Quasimondo
“This is like when PeeWee Herman trips over his platform shoes and says, ‘I meant to do that.’”
Was Toyota caught spannering one out in public, too?
Toyota are cutting their forecast. Times are tight for all automakers. I bet even Ford, Honda and Nissan are being conservative now.
At least Toyota didn’t announce a lame “turnaround plan” to boost share prices.
I’ve also noticed on TTAC, whever there’s a story involving one of the transplants messing up or contracting, it barely gets commented on. When Detroit do the same we’re all over them!
For shame….
P.S “And this could be bad news for Toyota’s bid to become the global volume sales leader…”
Toyota won that title in 2006. GM used the Wu-ling-SAIC joint venture sales figures, even though SAIC was the majority shareholder in that enterprise.
And yet there still isn’t a single Toyota i’d be interested in buying. Is there a viral infection going around that confuses people into believing that Toyota products are appealing?
Toyota product give the best reliability next to Honda which is top according to Consumer Reports and I agree as with the two Toyota products that I have now and have had in the last few years, I cant say the same for my GMC Rally Van which was in for repairs more times than I can count.
Now whether you purchase a vehicle for looks or performance and lack of problems thats your choice but its not mine! L like to keep my Money close to the Vest!
Well I’m one of those GM haters, so I’d like to comment about why I don’t dog the transplants about their missteps and problems.
First, they are profitable. Toyota will make more this year, even with all its problems, than GM is WORTH. They could buy GM with its 08 profits.
Second, their cars aren’t built to (barely) outlast their warranty.
Third, they do not have the same deep structural problems that the domestics have (and have ignored for longer than I have been alive).
So all in all, I see the transplants as basically solid companies making solid products. The domestics have let their problems get to the point where a general downturn in sales and the collapse of two market segments is threatening to destroy them. Meanwhile Toyota idles a truck plant for a while and restructures to build more of the cars that are in demand. GM talks about eventually getting around to bringing some of its Euro models here, while it shovels rebadged Daewoos out the door as a stopgap.
So I just can’t muster the same ire against the transplants. Also, I spent more in 1 year repairing my Ford F-150 than I have on the Subaru and Nissan I’ve driven for the past 10. So that helps too.
Is there a viral infection going around that confuses people into believing that Toyota products are appealing?
Only if you consider “practicality” a viral infection. It’s the same disease that causes people to want cars that will run and keep running, instead of break and cost them large amounts of money.
Boring and reliable wins the race!
And yet there still isn’t a single Toyota i’d be interested in buying. Is there a viral infection going around that confuses people into believing that Toyota products are appealing?….
Probably because you are an auto enthusiast. Toyota’s product line is mostly appliance grade. High quality and reliable, yes, in the sense of a 30 year old white Maytag in the basement that, despite being ignored, churns out clean clothes year after year. Toyotas lack PASSION, period. But most people consider cars a necessity and little else. That’w why magazines like Consumer Reports outsells the typical car magazine when potential buyers looks for information. But passion alone is not enough. Otherwise we would all be driving Alfa and Porsche.
“Second, their cars aren’t built to (barely) outlast their warranty.”…..
That is an ignorant statement. I’m no fan of GM, but I know of numerous people who have well over 150K on their GM products. I have to add that I glad I am not the one driving them, though. Also, my brother is a contractor who’s fleet is mostly GM and all of the trucks are kept in service for 10 years. Too bad TTAC does not have a high mileage “club” where posters could list their vehicle with a photo of the odometer. As a general statement with no particular posters in mind, I find it funny how those who trade every three or four years talk about long term durability.
And yet there still isn’t a single Toyota i’d be interested in buying. Is there a viral infection going around that confuses people into believing that Toyota products are appealing?
No but there is one which can prevent you from appreciating their appeal! :-)
Aside from my personal experience, I was thinking of Chrysler’s inserting of faulty transmissions into their minivans for 10 years straight. They knew they failed too much @ 90k; they didn’t care enough to fix it. That is designing to barely outlive the warranty.
And yes, some of Domestics cars last a long time. Many more don’t. I know a guy who has a foreign car who swears he has 340000 miles on it. But anecdotes about particular cars aren’t really reflective of brand quality as a whole. I’m sure there are plenty of people with horror stories about lemony Toyotas, Hondas, etc. But, and I’m going on market share and Consumer Reports here, not nearly as many who have similar stories about domestics.
@oldyak:
I am extremely glad that the nineteen year old Yamaha engine in your SHO has been so good.
But anecdotes about particular cars aren’t really reflective of brand quality as a whole. I’m sure there are plenty of people with horror stories about lemony Toyotas, Hondas, etc. But, and I’m going on market share and Consumer Reports here, not nearly as many who have similar stories about domestics.…
Good point. I am curious though if any reputable sources have studied this in detail. Generally speaking, Japan has the best reputation regarding problems per 100 cars during the warranty period. But what about the long haul? Consumer Reports often states that their data becomes less relevant as cars age because care and maintenance become more important as the odometer rolls past 100K. Hence the end of the survey at 7 years. True Delta also outlines concerns about CR’s surveys, too. FWIW only one car our family ever owned had matched CR’s predicted reliability. (84 Chrysler which was an incredible disaster for 18 months then soldiered on mostly trouble free for the next 7 years) I would like to know if anybody ever took the time to investigate which models really last the longest, correcting for factors such as number of cars sold, hard use, etc. It is easy to find cars of most any make with over 200K on them; go to any fan site of a given make and you will find plenty of examples. Same can be said for cars for sale on eBay. But virtually any car will last to 200K if driven 45K a year on the highway. How about those 15K a year warriors? Whose models are most likely to make 150K or more under real usage?
“Second, their cars aren’t built to (barely) outlast their warranty.”
+1 to what Golden Husky said. My Mom has an 1994 Saturn SL2 Sedan at 140k of mostly hard stop n go commuting miles with no significant issues.
There is a lot more variation with the big 2.8’s products. Some are great while others are “old” at 50k.
toxicroach, back in 12/07, I retired an ’88 BMW 528e. It has 347k miles on it. This mileage is by no means remarkable for an E 28 BTW. I maintained the car in my driveway. The drivetrain is original. Other than routine maintenance stuff, I replaced the fuel injectors at 275k with a good used set. In the 11 1/2 yrs I drove the car, it never once needed a tow. My current fleet is a pair of them . I hope to run them until a good electric comes on the market. As for Toyota not passing GM in ’08, meh, they probably will next year.
“It’s the same disease that causes people to want cars that will run and keep running, instead of break and cost them large amounts of money.”
If that was the case, then VW and BMW would be hurting right now. But enthusiasts traits and image, however true (or flase) will cover a lot of (mechanical sins).
“I’m no fan of GM, but I know of numerous people who have well over 150K on their GM products.”
I’m also not a fan of GM, but I had an S-10 that had 229K miles when I sold it, still running. And I was something like the 4th or 5th owner, and some of the previous owners had not been kind to it. I also have a Ford product (daily commuter) that is aprroaching 100k miles and has been great. I don’t even like Fords. Well, I like some of their cars, but I don’t like them in general, never have. Our family also has a Dodge vehicle (pre Dumbler era design) that is just shy of 60k miles and has been to the dealer ONCE, for something minor. The owner has no complaints about it, and she had a Toyota before this.
My heart craves Audis (but a Dodge Challenger for weekends would be fun too, if I could afford the gas), but then I look them up at CR or JD Powers and my head intervenes.
(macarose: a.k.a. Steven Lang incognito)
Funny that this thread is focusing on longevity. I actually did a study on automotive longevity with Carmax’s trade-in’s (about 4000 vehicles a week) and found the following over the course of time.
Toyota, Honda, Lexus, Acura and Subaru had the most trade-in’s percentage with over 150k (30+% on average. During some weeks, the Honda Accord would have more cars traded in that were over 150k than all the European marques combined (VW, Saab, Volvo, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Land Rover, BMW). The third generation Camry also did very well.
Buick, Cadillac, Mercedes and Porsche had the oldest trade-in’s on average. Buick also had the highest percentage of cars out of this group that were over 150k. Other than the Lincoln Town Car, the Lincoln marque was a poor performer. But not as bad as Audi, Jaguar or Saab.
Kia was the one make that really stood out withe the highest percentage of trade-in’s with less than 100k. Saab, Land Rover, VW and Suzuki were also poor performers with over 95% of their vehicles with less than 100k. VW was by far the worst mainstrram brand with an over 150k percentage of only 3%, and an under 100k level of over 80%. Despite VW’s limited numbers, their number of trade-in’s were always among the top 7 in terms of brands. Audi did better than VW, but not by much.
I actually did a write-up for TTAC on it. But perhaps the subject matter is a bit dicey. It also went against the 800 word edict but with 30+ brands it’s hard to flesh out specifics for each one without going over the limit.
toxicroach:
“Aside from my personal experience, I was thinking of Chrysler’s inserting of faulty transmissions into their minivans for 10 years straight.”
That’s the problem, it’s asside from your personal experience. It is absolutely not true. First the trannys were in all their vehicles, not just minivans. Second the issues with the tranny were corrected early in the run. Third, most of the later failures were due to owners and mechanics putting the wrong type of fluid in them. My experience: I had one of the early ones (1990) and I put 135k miles on it. No problems. Maybe I was lucky, but the odds were in my favor: the failure rate of the early models was about 17%, less than 2 out of 10. Wayyyy too high to be sure, but your problem is the media coverage made it sound like ALL of them failed. If they did, the company would not have survived. The media coverage reminds me of the stories about Audi unintended acceleration, or Jeep/SUV rollovers, they make it sound like ALL of them do or will.
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
“This page is designed to help you to quickly and cheaply fix your “bad” Chrysler, Dodge, or Plymouth four-speed automatic transmission for your front wheel drive car or minivan… We have had this page up for years and have saved people countless thousands of dollars on needless transmission repairs.”
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/four-speed-automatics.html
“Chrysler reportedly put over a million miles of testing on the A604 before its first use in 1989, which is when they discovered that Dexron fluid was not good enough. However, the company did not make this clear to customers, saying that Dexron was good enough if their own fluid, ATF+3, was not available. Nor did they get the word out to oil change places and corner mechanics. As a result, many, many transmissions were destroyed. Even some dealers apparently told customers they could use Dexron. The result was a terrible reputation for quality – we have been told by one transmission rebuilding establishment that the horrific return/repair rate on their own transmissions fell to normal levels when they switched to ATF+3, and that was around ten years after the A604 was first introduced!”
Toyotas lack PASSION, period.
There’s a lot of truth to this. But does a Toyota exhibit any less passion than does a Cobalt, Sebring or much of the other debris that passes for Detroit metal these days? Honestly, does anyone who is objective truly believe this?
When I’ve been behind the wheel of a Pontiac G6 or a Dodge Caliber, the words that came to mind were not passion, excitement or lust, but Hertz, Avis and Budget. They aren’t interesting cars at all, and they have so many drawbacks to accompany their boredom that there doesn’t seem much point to them.
Anyone who blindly thinks all imports are reliable and domestics aren’t is intellectually dishonest. Anecdotes can be found an all sides (how about the 1.1 million mile camaro with original engine and trans?). Also, for all of you who say you prefer Toyota and Honda because of CR and JDP, what is wrong with Ford?
From CR’s website: “Ford has climbed to fifth place in our reliability standings. In our latest survey, 93 percent of Ford models had average or better reliability…”
Ford hasn’t had a botched launch in years unlike Toyota with the Tundra and the V6 Camry. The Fusion is ranked higher than the Camry (4 & 6) in just about every quality study including CR. The V6 Camry is significantly below average in CR! I think buying a Toyota has more to do with what your neighbors will think than with reliability or practicality.
Also, for all of you who say you prefer Toyota and Honda because of CR and JDP, what is wrong with Ford?
Ford is the new kid on the reliability block. Last time that it saw improvements back during the Petersen era, it promptly lost them thereafter. It’s reasonable to take a wait-and-see approach, to see whether the gains are a temporary anomaly or an indication of a sustainable improvement that will continue to be refined.
Anecdotes may fall on both sides, but they fall far more heavily in favor of Toyota and Honda. Same with the surveys.
The domestics are absolutely not equal to them, no matter how anyone wants to spin it. If you look at all of the data, there is no way to honestly claim otherwise. You have to ignore a lot of information to believe that they are equal.
Pch101,
As a whole, I agree that Japanese imports are more reliable than domestics. But can you honestly say you’d buy a v6 camry over a v6 fusion because of reliability reasons despite all evidence to the contrary?
General statements about reliability are worthless when you have wide variations in quality within a manufacturer, like Toyota.
prndlol: Why can’t everyone else see that? The flat, bulbous Camry? the Corolla that looks like GM designed it, and it looks like its outer parts came from diffeent countries? The Tacoma is a slightly modified Colorado.
Honda can blow all that away (except the Tacorado). Easily. In quality, performance, especially, and appearance. Period.