Acura sources tell Automotive News (sub) that the Honda luxury brand will add an all-new model to its lineup in 2010. Earlier reports suggest that this model could be a four-seat coupe to replace the CL which was cut in 2003. With a $50k target price and a possible folding hardtop version, the new vehicle will almost certainly occupy a niche spot in the market. According to the Acura corporate office, this new model is what it will take for Acura to assume its rightful position as a "tier one" luxury brand like BMW or Mercedes. But according to to Acura dealers, a new model is needed simply to pep up showroom traffic. Not that you can blame Acura for wanting to try something; June sales were down a staggering 25.7 percent. "We need to start creating more buzz about our products," says an LA Acura dealer. "I'm going to keep Acura in my prayers because they need it." But the NSX will create plenty of buzz before this new whip even arrives, so why go for it? Acura dealers currently sell only three cars and two crossovers, compared to Lexus' four cars, one crossover and two body-on-frame utes. And there are even more models from the true "top tier" luxury brands. But adding two-door and convertible TLs doesn't exactly banish Acura's rep as a seller of tarted-up Accords or launch it anywhere near the German teeth of the market. Which brings us to an interesting question about Acura's place in the market. With the economy flopping about an gasping for air, are "tier one" luxury buyers going to downgrade to Acuras, or are entry-level luxury buyers going to be squeezed out of the Acura dealership and into a Camcord? My guess is the latter.
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My mother in law has an 06 Acura.
It just doesn’t drive like a luxury car. It doesn’t have the interior of a luxury car. It feels like a really nice Accord with all the options, nothing more. She thinks she has a luxury car. I don’t have the heart to tell her it isn’t.
Acura will not be a “first tier” luxury brand until they produce a large RWD V8 sedan that doesn’t ride on an Accord chassis. If a niche coupe could do it, then the NSX already would have done it.
What’s keeping the “entry level luxury” crowd from all running out and buying Altima Coupes?
I mean, other than the Altima interior?
I really want to defend Acura. Not being in the market for a BMW or Mercedes a “tarted up” Accord is just what I want, and I really like the current TL model. Also very much enjoyed the classic Legend models they had. But lately I just don’t get them. The Saturn like grills are disgusting. The new NSX is not going to be mid-engine. The RL is just a major disappointment. I hope they find their way, but a $50k reinvention of the CL isn’t it.
Bring back the Integra (or at least RSX); right car, right time, and they must have sold more than all the other Acura models put together.
I would argue that having an overlap between Honda and Acura helps Acura distinguish itself as they would both have full ranges of vehicles (unlike Lexus, which obviously begins where Toyota ends). Even the luxury Germans are stretching down into the market once owned by the Integra with vehicles that are nowhere near as sweet. A fully modern new Integra, especially if they could somehow engineer a drop top, would get me back into an Acura dealer; their current lineup never will, and an even more expensive coupe is even less likely to.
I think Acura really does have a problem in terms of brand. Back when it was started, the idea of a tarted up Accord that had the features of a German luxury sedan, but was cheaper and reliable, was unique and attractive.
But now, the field is crowded with players in that space — above mainstream but below M-B/BMW/Lexus. Infiniti has momentum and appears to be moving up, but Acura remains undifferentiated from Audi and Volvo.
So what is Acura all about. The ads say “Advance”, but doesn’t address a selling proposition which is unique. Eveyone has NavSys, and backup cameras, and bluetooth integration — apparently the Ford Focus does it best! so what is Acura really about?
If you truly believe that $4 gas is here to stay, then maybe the USP is green?
I don’t think of my ’04 6-speed TL as a luxury car. And Acura is not one car away from being a luxury marque.
The RL is too small (and too similar in size to the TL) to make much sense. It doesn’t compete with the LS, the 7 or the S, and I believe even the GS is larger. So is it in a class (overpriced) all by itself?
The new TL, with available FWD or SH-AWD, will be a hit, if buyers can get past the new grill.
The TSX is hot hot hot, and is a big improvement over the old model (numb-steering notwithstanding).
I can’t remember what the status is of the RSX. But it is a solid replacement to the Integra.
The MDX is category leading (as a drivers 7-seat SUV). The RDX is forgettable.
Will an NSX replacement and new four-seat convertible do the trick? Debatable. But definitely a step in the right direction.
Full disclosure: If Acura would make a RWD sedan with manual transmission, I would drive Acura’s forever.
Yes, I love my car. No, it is not a luxury marque. And yes, I sleep well at night.
sitting@home:
Bring back the Integra (or at least RSX); right car, right time, and they must have sold more than all the other Acura models put together.
In Canada they have this: the CSX. It’s essentially a Civic EX-L with the iVTEC. You can get nearly the same here in the States with a optioned-out Si. ‘Cept no leather.
What a new Integra/RSX needs more than anything is a power plant where you don’t need to peg the tachometer to get to the good stuff.
In honesty Honda (the automaker) has shot itself in the foot by chasing after the SUV/ Crossover dollars. While Honda has been quite successful with its Pilot/MDX, CRV, and Odyessy Minivan its other “branch out” products like the Element, Ridgeline, and RDX offer up nothing special or even “Honda-like” to distingush them as Honda products that actually appeal to Honda fans.
As a former Honda Fanboy, (I owned one of the best cars ever made by Honda, a 1989 Prelude Si) I must say that I find NOTHING Honda makes today “cool” or “exciting” or for that matter very practical.
Today Honda thinks it is a cross between Toyota and Ford. Its lineup of vehicles is made up strictly of sedans and crossovers, WTF????
OK, they have the Fit(a product never intended for the USA), big freaken deal! No more Civic hatchbacks, no more Accord wagons or hatch-backs, What happened to the popular AWD Civic wagon?
The S2000 is an over-priced car that NO-ONE asked for and its sales prove this fact. We wanted a better Miata from Honda NOT a $33,000 peaky torque-less wonder that is higher-pirced than a 350z conv!
Remember the CRX? A car that Honda can’t decide if they should make again, or the Integra, the car that put the Acura brand on the map? What happened Honda? I guess all of those young MEN that made your brand what it is today no longer count anymore!
Nevermind the Acura brand Honda needs to redefine what a Honda is. If I want a Toyota I will buy one from Toyota (they do make better Toyotas than Honda could ever do). If I buy a Honda I do expect to get a very “different” car than a Toyota or Nissan.
The only way I see Acura pulling this off is if they heavily revise the Accord chassis to make it lighter and add SH-AWD as standard for the coupe/convertible. Other than that, there really is no hope for this [near] luxury brand.
In this day and age, a fully loaded Accord is just as luxurious as a TL, if you can get past the Accord’s bland looks in the same way a Lexus ES350 is just a fully loaded Camry in an elegant dress. And the RL is just overpriced for what it offers.
I agree with most comments here – it all boils down to the problem being the brand. It just doesn’t offer enough differentiated content to qualify as a luxury brand. Honda is also not comitting to its brand by making it global and giving it enough product development resources. Instead Acura is a North American brand only offering nice upmarket versions of various Honda products, most of which you can buy elsewhere in the world wearing a Honda badge.
here’s a hint – ditch FWD
@ whatdoiknow1
“The S2000 is an over-priced car that NO-ONE asked for and its sales prove this fact. We wanted a better Miata from Honda NOT a $33,000 peaky torque-less wonder that is higher-pirced than a 350z conv!”
Maybe so, but it is a sweet car.
I also wish Acura would bring back the RSX/Integra. I think it would compete with the likes of Mini very well with the right styling. Acura has an extremely uphill battle to become a true tier 1 luxury marque, especially in this economic climate. They should be what they already are, but better. For example, how about building the next RSX in the S2000 chassis and fit it with a turbo? One can dream right..
Also, I find it strange that while Acura has struggled to carve a place in the market for itself selling FWD V6 powered vehicles based on the chassis of their mainstream bretheren, Lincoln is going full steam ahead with the same strategy.
So Acura is going to try to go for the G37 market … at 50k, and if its FWD, good luck!
For example, how about building the next RSX in the S2000 chassis and fit it with a turbo? One can dream right..
The problem with that is we would still have a 4cyl car costing over $35,000! This will not fly in the face of a RWD turbochargered 4cyl Hyundai coupe that will list for about $25,000.
Although Honda does make some fine products I have to say that Honda manages to “miss the mark” on just about everything outside of the Accord and Civic. With the S2000 it appeared that Honda created the engine before they had a car to put it in. Rather than chase after the Miata and the Boxster at the same time Honda should have built an Elise killer. The S2000 is too heavy for its engine with its power top and steel panels.
At the end of the day the S2000 was too expensive to compete with the Miata yet at the sametime was Too hard-core yet NOT powerful enough to compete with the Boxster. It simply fell into its own (undefined) niche.
The Ridgeline is built with an “off the shelf” Transmission that can’t handle any type of heavy load. Where is the HD manual 5pd with a HD Clutch?
Honda created an Accord and TL that so close that they compete directly with each other.
In a move of cheapness that Honda believed would go unnoticed they moved their flagship from a unique longtitudinal mounted FWD chassis to the “share-all” Accord platform resulting in one hell of a lack-luster luxury sedan!
In all Honesty Acura is simply Lexus with only the ES350 and RX350. I can’t include the IS series because they manage to have that REAL luxury trait RWD that all Acura products lack.
The Lexus equivalant of a TSX would simply be a 4cyl ES. Viewing Acura in this light it is easy to see NOT a luxury brand it is.
Dare we use the phase; “half-a$$” here!
whatdoIknow1,
You sure do have a lot of critisicms for Honda/Acura today. But saying Honda shot themselves in the foot pursuing SUV/Crossover revenues goes a step too far.
You do realize that Honda has the lowest percentage of trucks sold in the US by a major manufacturer, right? You do realize that Honda has the most fuel efficient fleet, right? You do know that Honda just reported record earnings, right?
I do agree with what others have said in terms of how Acura kind of lost its way, and its stuck between luxury and performance but unable to do it well. They maybe reliable, but thier recent designs dont give the older Acura models any justice.
Although, if Acura really want to compete alot more and get better models out there, they could go one of two ways I know of. One way would be to go like VW/Audi, and have models based on mainstream but improve the interiors and up the performance to. Or maybe go like Lexus and Caddy and develop new platforms and become a true luxury competitor that way.
But until Acura does something different, it would eventually become the Mercury of Honda.
I agree with the general tone of the comments, Acura clearly needs to establish a unique identity. Lexus did it with one car, the LS 400; a true RWD luxury car with superb quality (i much prefer the german cars but we have to give lexus credit for a major accomplishment with the LS). And yes, the RX and the ES are sold like crazy but the brand and the rep came from the LS. Acura never did that, so i would just second the others who have stated that Acura needs a RWD V8 or slick turbo6 powered luxury car on a unique chassis, NOT an overpriced FWD coupe.
whatdoIknow 1 – Dead on.
What happenned there. They seem to have captured the (US?) market for Motorcycle touring with their Goldwings but they can’t seem to replicate that on Luxury Auto’s. Maybe their commitment isn’t there, or they may be sidetracked by their aircraft business. Who knows maybe they’ll make fuel efficiency breakthroughs in the airliner industry the same way they did for autos.
Anyway, the Integra had good value and I thought the TSX was it’s successor but the price range doesn’t say so. Civics are really known to be economy cars so the Si doesn’t cut it either. So c’mon Honda do something. Fill that void and bring back the soul on your cars…
Drifter;
I have always wondered the same thing. VW’s/Audi’s arguably drive worse than Acura’s.
Why does Acura have to be Lexus? They used to be independent minded and gave the market unique products. The Legend and Integra were not RWD are still amazing cars. They should try and forge a unique brand identity, they don’t have to be a “tier 1” Luxury manufactuer because they never were.
Acura’s problem is not that it isn’t BMW or whatever, it’s that it doesn’t recognize it’s own best ideas and WHY they are great. The Integra was great even for non-boy racers (my father owned a 4 door GS-R), and the NSX was brilliant even with a V6. Honda does NOT need big engines, and arguably even RWD isn’t what they need (the Integra is famously often called the best handling FWD car ever, much better than many RWD cars) – they need to focus on their own strengths.
Small, light, efficient, with great handling and engines that are mild on the bottom and hot on top. That’s Honda’s strength. They need a good compact sedan.
Honda and Acura-the official cars of the Witness Protection Program…
toxicroach :
“It just doesn’t drive like a luxury car. It doesn’t have the interior of a luxury car.”
OK? I am game. What is a luxury car? And how would I know it when I drove it.
Yes, I have driven Mercedes, extensively and for many years, and Cadillacs, way back when.
P.S. I drive a 2002 Honda Accord LX-V6, and I like it. Outside of the leather and the wood panels, tell me what are the real meaningful differences between my Accord and a luxury car.
MgoBLUE:
Full disclosure: If Acura would make a RWD sedan with manual transmission, I would drive Acura’s forever.
+1. Although, a dual clutch option would work… And how about a V8. With optional Recaro seats AND optional side curtain air bags…
But it’s not gonna happen. After seeing the latest TSX regurgitationrefresh, you can stick a fork in acura.
Unfortunately, Acura’s position in the world of Honda is just like that of Mercury in the world of Ford – the answer to a question not enough people are asking.
How they achieved this distinction doesn’t seem to be rocket science. First they replaced real names with anodyne initials (how’d you like to be remembered as the man who approved replacing ‘LEGEND’ with ‘rl’), and then they axed their number one showroom traffic draw – the Integra/RSX – vehicles which, in all four generations, simply oozed the essence of “Honda-ness”. The final insult is the recent crop of hideous chrome cow-catchers adorning the new TSX/RL. Of particular note is the current MDX whose face could only be described as (in the word’s of Garp) ‘pre-disastered’.
Perhaps its only fitting their demographic has shifted to a more senior slice of the market. Macular degeneration (coupled with dementia?) is probably the best means to ensure an appreciation of what Acura has become.
Three words: Rear Wheel Drive.
It is important to remember that the second generation Legend was such a success because it had the correct proportions and looked like a RWD car. This was due to its North/ South engine placement that left little front overhang on that design. Unless you knew your cars you would have to ask if the Legend was FWD or RWD until you drove one.
I believe the first WTF product from Honda/ Acura was the RL which came right on the heals of the last Legend GS model which was actually more powerful, sleeker, and simply better looking. IIRC the RL came out around the same time that Infiniti wreaked the Q45. Both mid 90s RL and Q45 did a great deal of damage to these brands. These cars killed the momentum that the Acura and Inifinti brands had built up during the early 1990s.
The RL was a “what is it” type of car! In a move to make their flagship more competitive with the Lexus LS Honda created a car that turned-off most previous Legend owners yet did not have the good to appeal to LS owners or aspirers.
Another Honda product that “missed the mark” was the (much loved HERE) NSX. While fine in concept the NSX was easily outdone (in the real world) by the 1990s Supra TT, 300zx TT, and RX7 TT. All excellent sports cars built with reasonable affordable steel bodies. The NSX was always serverly over-priced for was it was. IT also lacked any type of “edge” over the players that Honda was aiming for. At the end of the day the NSX is best described as a novelty.
Put into perspective, at the end of its run the NSX was a $93,000 car that was easily outclassed by a $60,000 CaymanS.
By aiming for the sky with the NSX Honda built a car that was out of reach for even most “well to do” Honda fans. The irony is that while Honda had a hard-on for the 911 Porsche was in the process of creating the extremely successful, company saving Boxster.
Image the success the NSX could have been IF honda decided to be smart and make a $40,000 to $45,000 sports car back then.
There aren’t only two rungs on the ladder, there are at least four: Good, Better, Best and Exotic.
Back in the day, Volvo and Saab defined what it was to be “better”. Now, Ford and GM have bastardized them back to “Good”, leaving Infiniti and Acura in the Better category (others?), while Lexus has made the jump to Best.
From the comments here, it seems as though Acura’s position in the Better class is being threatened by its own designs, while Infiniti’s position has been strengthened by the success of the G sedan and coupe and M sedan.
To that end, I don’t buy the “Acura is Mercury/Lincoln” bit. But I’m biased, so I’ll spare you the rant.
Why does Acura always gets the blame for FWD lineup when a pseudo luxury German car maker with unreliable FWDs goes scots free?
+1
I’ve always wondered why Audi gets a pass for selling gussied-up Volkswagens, but Acura doesn’t. Every Audi except the R8 originates from a front-drive platform, and the only advantage Audi really holds over Acura is engine size–which actually results in most Audis being pretty nose-heavy as a result.
If given the choice between an RL and V6 A6, I’d take the Acura. I’d probably still take the Acura if it was a V8 A6. God knows it handles better and isn’t nearly as likely to be a maintenance princess as it ages
Acuras are nice cars. Remember the nice car? Saab and Volvo also made “nice” cars, too. The problem is that the Camry XLE and Accord EX-V6 are very nice cars, too, and the BMW 323i, IS250 and C230K, while not quite as nice, have shiny badges on the nose that make them more attractive. Acura (and Saab, and Volvo, and to a lesser degree VW and Subaru) don’t have a lot of room to play with between XLE-level Toyotas and basement-trim Mercedes.
All this “must be RWD/V8/etc” is just window dressing for badge snobbery; a good luxury car doesn’t need such a thing to sell in masse (and, from the number of C230s, E350s, 323s and A6 3.2s I see, this is valid). Acura makes very good cars, but there’s nothing special enough about them next to their low-end competition to sell in bulk. If they had four rings instead of a compass on the grille, they might do better.