Now that the 2008 Honda Fit's scooped fourth place on TTAC's Ten Best list, it's time for the winner to get evicted. Buh-bye! The 2009 Honda Fit goes on sale in the U.S. next week; Honda's already introduced the model in other markets. The next gen is slightly larger and better packaged than its predecessor, with the Magic Seat able to drop into the floor without having to slide the front seats out of the headrests' way. Honda's boffins have bumped the 1.5-liter powertrain to 117bhp. The five-speed auto gets slightly better fuel economy (28/35), while the stick-shift Fit and Sport– with wider tires and spoiler– suffer a one mpg drop on the highway cycle (27/33.) The Sport gets a nifty USB audio interface for direct control of iPods. The Sport is also available with a touchscreen navigation system plus ESC, for an MSRP over $18,500. The Fit's rear torsion bar suspension and drum brakes remain, but the whimsical blue dot in "Fit" is gone. But not forgotten.
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Kudos to Honda for putting the touchscreen navigation system in this model. It’s the only way some people are going to buy it. Ditto for the Civic and CR-V.
(Shame on them for using the joystick based system in their flagship sedan – the Accord.)
I can’t wait to try the new Fit. I do hope they put a more robust A/C system in it – the old one had a hard time keeping up in south Florida.
I really don’t like Kei cars. They just aren’t my thing, never really have been. I like Uber Alles sedans. Lots of power with four doors. M, AMG, S/RS, etc.
That being said, a friend of mine has a girlfriend with a fit. He convinced her to at least let him get a nice exhaust (full, not just a muffler) and open air intake for it, just to give it a bit more punch getting on our 80mph freeways. And I must say, it is rather fun to drive.
Someone oughtta let them know that a subcompact does not need a close-ratio manual transmission… Or a 5th gear short enough to make downshifting while passing on the highway unnecessary.
The new manual transmissions are terribly geared – I miss the cars of yore which would do a 70mph cruise at a leisurly 1800rpm in 4th. Heck, a Sentra of the early 90’s would easily shame the manual Fit in gas mileage despite having aerodynamics of a brick and a (now) 20-year-old engine design.
This car would be really awesome with a 1.4 liter motor, a turbo, and tall gears, though.
Someone oughtta let them know that a subcompact does not need a close-ratio manual transmission… Or a 5th gear short enough to make downshifting while passing on the highway unnecessary.
Yes.
This is my biggest pet peeve with my Fit and was a bugaboo with my Protege as well. Someone decided that stupidly low final drive are necessary for “smooth takeoffs” and a short fifth gear because “people don’t want to downshift”.
If I didn’t want to downshift, I’d have bought an automatic, thanks.
Look, if I can pull out of an intersection in third gear in a car with a naturally-aspirated gas engine, something is wrong. As it is, I can comfortably do 50km/h in fourth gear, and fifth is revving at 3500rpm @120km/h. My Saab (four-speed auto, albeit) is doing 2100 at the same speed.
I wonder if this means Honda will discount the 2008s?
Naah.
I’m 6’1″, and I just remove the rear headrest to fold the seat flat. In fact, I’ve had the driver’s side portion folded down for the last few weeks because of repeatedly loading things for a few days in a row and being too lazy to lift it back up. The headrests fit under the front seats just fine when folding the seats down.
RFortier, this isn’t a kei car – those are limited to 660cc (plus turbo). The Fit may be small by our standards, but not by theirs!
As for the gearing thing… I have way too much experience in this segment and I’ve never had a car that didn’t rev like crazy at 80mph. Those were the days when the really cheap models have four speed manuals. Still, I agree that the top gear should be wider than it tends to be. Maybe it’s because of Japan’s low speed limit?
re: short gearing
My VWs have always had stupid short gearing as well. I thought it was to eliminate the downshift required on more than a gentle incline with the gutless engines they are equipped with.
It was a wonderful thing when I put a longer 5th in my mkII jetta, you could actually talk to your passenger(s) at highway speeds.
RFortier1796 :
August 20th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I really don’t like Kei cars. They just aren’t my thing, never really have been. I like Uber Alles sedans. Lots of power with four doors. M, AMG, S/RS, etc.
Wow. Silver spoon, much?
Let’s not forget the most important improvement:
LEFT FOOT DEAD PEDAL!!
RFortier1796 :
“I really don’t like Kei cars.”
The Fit isn’t a Kei car.
A HWY rating of 33 MPG is NOT GOOD for this size car/engine; I’m a bit disappointed in Honda for this.
Still, it’s a brilliant package, and if I hadn’t bought my Elantra in March, I would have been looking really hard at the new Fit (and probably standing in line to do so!)
Carlismo and Bancho, mea culpa. Not sure what the designation would be.
Joshvar…Not really? With the death of the Panther platform, any hopes of getting a GT500 or the 2004 SVT Cobra motor into the engine bay of a Maurader fresh of the dealer floor are out. The Impala SS is an insult to the SS name. ChryCo could get me an SRT8 in Dodge or Chyrsler badging, but they just don’t do anything for me. That leaves in the American market the Pontiac G8, which I do like, but I’m waiting for the GXP version to put on my list.
What is there in the US Japanese market? The only thing I could think of off the top of my head is the Infiniti M45, but after pulling the piss out of one from a 60 punch in my Speed3, eh, not so much.
I’m talking about cars that I can use to pick up any future children from school, grab some groceries on the way home, then take a quick trip to the strip and pull a mid to high 12 second 1/4, then on the way home cruise along at 100 plus in a rather sedate fashion. If that means I have to lust after a 70k plus M car or Audi RS, or a 100k+ AMG, then so be it. I can dream, can’t I? Is it my fault that all the cars I like just happen to be both expensive and German? Or is wanting one of those cars against TTAC Commentator policy, and I should only hope that one day I can get a Prius?
A HWY rating of 33 MPG is NOT GOOD for this size car/engine; I’m a bit disappointed in Honda for this.
It’s the shape of the car, and the Yaris isn’t much better for exactly the same reason. There’s not much you can do when a vehicle has this much frontal area. It’s a tradeoff; to maximize interior space, you have to lose some slipperyness.
Of course, the abovementioned gearing issue doesn’t help, and given that the Fit’s already quite quick (0-60 in just under 9) it could probably do with a smaller engine.
shaker :
I blame that on some ridiculous gearing in the manual transmission Fit. Honda’s not the only one doing this either. I know automatic transmissions have come a long way but I’m really skeptical that they’re actually more efficient than a good (properly geared) manual.
It’s almost like a conspiracy where they’re grudgingly offering the manual, but artificially making the auto seem more economical.
Needs a sixth tall gear. I don’t get that short final gearing either. Do they think no one drives faster than 55 in the US? Or perhaps they didn’t notice all the long, flat or gentle grade freeways in the US?
I haven’t owned an auto tranny in a quarter of a century. I am not saying I would never buy one (in a truck or a large sedan, perhaps), but a package like the Fit begs for a stick. Pity.
BTW, I wish all reviews in mags and online showed gearing ratios for stick and auto.
RFortier1796 :
August 20th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I can dream, can’t I?
It’s no one’s fault that they’re expensive and German (you explained your reasoning well), but it’s your fault for making a statement that was a complete non-sequitur. If the linked article was the Fit beating down a bevy of German cars, I could see the point, otherwise, it’s like saying “Why drink water when Châteauneuf-du-Pape exists?”
Is this a new disease….Hondabloat?
Less fuel econ than the Civic?
Joshvar…
Thats the point where you go on to the next statement where I say it was a fun little car to drive.
They finally added a telescoping steering wheel, which means regular sized people no longer have to lock their elbows to drive the car long distances! And they added an arm rest!
Now the only problem the Fit has is the fact that the better-in-every-way-and-drives-like-a-real-car Mazda3 can be had for similar change.
Too bad the dashboard rivals only the Toyota Matrix’s in terms of bad design, but it wouldn’t stop me from giving this car a serious look.
And for those suggesting the Fit could get by with a smaller engine: are you insane? The Fit need(ed) more power and an additional gear for highway cruising. The outgoing model is too underpowered for anything other than an around-town city car. The Versa has more weight and more power, but still manages equal highway MPG. Just saying.
The U.S. Fit is more powerful than its European counterparts, most of which have a 1.3L engine. Adequate, if you’re undemanding.
I am annoyed by Honda’s love of absurdly short top gearing. The Fit isn’t as bad as was the Prelude, which spun 3,150 at 60 mph (even higher in the VTEC). I suspect it would get at least 2 mpg better highway mileage if the engine weren’t spinning so fast.
The current civic is rated 26 mpg / 34 mpg for the manual… so the fit is like, one higher in the city (IMHO where it really counts) and one lower on the highway. So theoretically, it’s not that much lower, and the auto version is actually better than the manual civic. The catch is that the civic has the 1.8L engine and the fit has the 1.5L, but the fit (at least the sport version) is nearly as heavy as the civic, so it’s probably putting more strain on the engine, which will reduce the gas mileage.
Is it just me, or do most all Japanese cars kind of suck in the air conditioning department? Every one I’ve driven has been pretty mediocre (the one in the Integra was probably the worst), yet every domestic I’ve driven will turn you into a popsicle about 10 seconds after you turn the a/c on. Am I the only one that’s noticed this?
Now the only problem the Fit has is the fact that the better-in-every-way-and-drives-like-a-real-car Mazda3 can be had for similar change.
Hmm, cargo space and MPG are pretty important:
Mazda 3 5 door max cargo space 43.8
Honda Fit max cargo space 57.3 (more than a Bummer H3!!)
Mazda 3 MPG 22/29
Fit Sport (5sp) MPG 27/33
Anyone want to wager on reliability, Mazda v. Honda?
For those looking for gear ratios for the 09 Fit, from the provided link, here they are:
5-Speed Manual Transmission
Gear Ratios:
1st: 3.308, 2nd: 1.870, 3rd: 1.303, 4th: 0.949,
5th: 0.727, Reverse: 3.308, Final Drive: 4.62
5-Speed Automatic Transmission
Gear Ratios:
1st: 2.996, 2nd: 1.679, 3rd: 1.067, 4th: 0.761,
5th: 0.552, Reverse: 1.957, Final Drive: 4.56
And for those suggesting the Fit could get by with a smaller engine: are you insane? The Fit need(ed) more power and an additional gear for highway cruising.
No, it doesn’t need more power.
Maybe you’re spoiled by whatever you currently drive, but the Fit is quite quick (again, it’s a almost a second faster 0-60 than any other econobox) when unloaded and perfectly adequate with people and stuff. Honda could easily drop in the European 1.3L and it wouldn’t hurt the car one bit because, quite frankly, people buy it for the dynamics and cargo versatility.
The Versa’s CVT is what allows it to approach the Fit’s mileage. If Honda could either make fifth gear a little taller, shrink the displacement and/or install a taller final drive (my choice) the Fit would do much, much better on the highway.
Again, the fact that I can take off (with much clutch slipping, true) in third gear and can cruise at 50km/h in fifth is very revealing of how stupidly geared this (and many other) cars are.
Again, if highway passing is an issue, and I know this is a hard concept for North Americans who drive automatics, downshift. It’s a five speed manual, fer pete’s sake! Fifth gear should be for cruising and ought not to have much reserve power.
For those looking for gear ratios for the 09 Fit, from the provided link, here they are:
5-Speed Manual Transmission
Gear Ratios:
1st: 3.308, 2nd: 1.870, 3rd: 1.303, 4th: 0.949,
5th: 0.727, Reverse: 3.308, Final Drive: 4.62
5-Speed Automatic Transmission
Gear Ratios:
1st: 2.996, 2nd: 1.679, 3rd: 1.067, 4th: 0.761,
5th: 0.552, Reverse: 1.957, Final Drive: 4.56
Ok, now that’s just silly. 3.3 in first with the stick and the auto’s fourth gear pretty much equals the manual’s fifth.
And a 4.62 final drive? .
RFortier1796 :
August 20th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Joshvar…
Thats the point where you go on to the next statement where I say it was a fun little car to drive.
Uh, what? There’s a reason I didn’t mention that. I just wanted to call you out for making an absurd comment: preferring German Supersedans in comparison to a sub-$15k econocar.
Sky? Still blue.
Fit? Not running 12s from the factory. Yet.
Water? Still wet.
Arguing on the internet? Still fruitless.
How difficult would it be (warranty issues aside, natch) to “replace” the 5th gear with something taller? Seems this would be a great trick, provided you realize you’ll (gulp) have to downshift for hills and whatnot.
It’s not the transmission gearing that is killing the car, it is the final drive ratio of 4.62. A 0.727 5th gear is fine, it has a 0.949 4th which is nice as well (if your final drive was something more reasonable). Now if the final drive was something along the lines of 4.11, you would get some decent acceleration and the fuel economy would increase.
The Subaru STi has a 3.90 final drive; the Dodge Charger R/T has a 2.7/2.9 (IIRC) final drive! This explains why it can get decent highway mileage, but for a car with 340 horsepower sucks at off-the-line acceleration.
A “cheap” way of altering your final drive/gearing is to change your rolling diameter. Run larger wheels and don’t drop the aspect ratio.
A HWY rating of 33 MPG is NOT GOOD for this size car/engine; I’m a bit disappointed in Honda for this.
My old stick shift Dakota gets 31 so, yes, I would think 40s for something like this.
John
Just a thought on the Fit MPG.
The current model has typically gotten better mileage in actual road tests than the Civic and all the other B-segment cars except the Yaris.
Get’s the job done as well as anyone in the states with better packaging and real fun. How is this bad?
So Honda isn’t obsessed with tweaking it for max EPA nums. Big whoop.
That said, note to Honda: Fit wish list 1) rear discs, 2) sunroof option, 3) sixth gear.
Bunter
Fit? Not running 12s from the factory. Yet.
Fun is subjective. If you definition of fun is laying a patch, more power to you.
The car can, according to some tests, out-slalom a Z06. Personally, I’ve never tried anything that extreme in mine, but you can whipsaw through curves waaaay faster than you’d expect. Which is fun, for me.
Yes, please. Sixth gear. Even the Versa has one.
I agree about the mileage not being great. I have a 2005 Civic, which gets 32.5 combined, and I don’t baby it. If I were going subcompact and giving up room, I’d want some mileage in return for it . . .
If I were going subcompact and giving up room
That’s an interesting point, because you wouldn’t be.
The Fit is, effectively, more roomy than the Civic in “real-world” terms. About the only place the Civic pulls ahead on is hip/shoulder room, but in terms of head, leg (given the upright seating) and cargo, the Fit is well ahead.
Does anyone know if you can get a Fit with a factory fitted power moonroof? I would be lining up if I could get a 5 speed, navigation and power moonroof to sun my bald head with. I like this trend towards premium features in a small car.
Nice minivan. Whose making it?
psarhjinian :
August 20th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Fun is subjective. If you definition of fun is laying a patch, more power to you.
I didn’t imply that it wasn’t fun due to that, just pointing out the obviousness of the earlier remark about 12-second German sedans vs the Fit.
Can somebody Please explain to this dimwitted kid why you would buy the Fit over the Civic?
The mid end Civic has the Fit’s equipment and a better, WAY better all around car.
I just don’t get it.
16,000 for the fit.
17,000 Civic LX. And 35 MPG…MORE than the Fit.
I simply just don’t get it!!
@psarhjinian:
Around town, the Fit is perfectly adequate. When encountering things like on-ramps where you have to accelerate from ~35mph to 70mph (notice how people drive in this country) to avoid getting rear ended by the person in the lane you’re trying to merge into before the lane ends, the Fit barely ekes by (My test drive had two people in the car, which didn’t help.) And if you’ve got friends and/or stuff in the car, you’re going to have to floor it and listen to that crappy little engine struggle and STILL put up with angry drivers behind you. Something that’s fun and an exercise of driving precision in a MT Mazda3 is an element of frustration in the Fit.
Yes, from 0-60 it’s respectable, but I don’t care about that.
And for those who want to wager Honda vs. Mazda’s reliability, The long termer over at Edmunds had a transmission defect, and C/D’s had A/C troubles. My last Accord ate through transmissions (automatic, natch- I drive stick from now on) and just look up on Youtube for people having issues with their Civics.
ppellico wrote:
Can somebody Please explain to this dimwitted kid why you would buy the Fit over the Civic? The mid end Civic has the Fit’s equipment and a better, WAY better all around car.
Way better for what? Perhaps if you want to buy a second car for carrying things bigger than your office attache case. For those who would rather have one vehicle, that’s where hatchbacks/wagons come in.
The five-speed auto gets slightly better fuel economy (28/35), while the stick-shift Fit and Sport– with wider tires and spoiler– suffer a one mpg drop on the highway cycle (27/33.)
Don’t you mean a 1 MPG drop in city mileage and a 2 MPG drop in highway mileage? The mileage for the auto is great, though. Too bad about the manual…
I’m very angry that it dropped fuel economy on the manual. These jackoffs need to realize that people buying manual don’t necessarily want all out performance. The gearing is godamn ridiculous. You want to use crazy low gearing? Fine. Put it on the sport version. Give me fuel economy on the base model. I was almost set on getting one of these but I don’t know anymore. To drop fuel economy in the face of rising costs is pathetic. If you hadn’t noticed, Hyundai is raising the fuel economy on a bunch of their 09s, and they aren’t even redesigned models!
“Can somebody Please explain to this dimwitted kid why you would buy the Fit over the Civic?”
Base Fit – $14620 (looks like 15,100 for the new one). Analog speedo, better shifter placement, hatchback with tons of cargo room.
09 Civic Sedan has a DX Value package which would be closer in price, and is what I would be interested in (finally some AC on the DX), but for 09 they put a bunch of nasty chrome on the rear end. It looks terrible.
By ‘ESC’ do you mean ‘Electronic Stability Control’?
I was car shopping a couple of months ago, and I test drove the old model Honda Jazz (which, in Australia, is imported from Thailand). It didn’t have ESC so I bought a Mazda2 instead. Now, twelve months after my current car was released to the Australian market, the new Honda Jazz has appeared.
And guess what? No ESC for the Australian or Japanese markets. Not even as an option. Isn’t that crazy?!
It’s funny that everyone’s dissing Honda for the short fifth gear. I remember driving around in a VX about a year ago that just seemed to have the best all around ‘cruising’ related gearing out of any Honda I’ve ever driven.
Then again, the thing was lighter than angel food cake and had a front end that was designed with fuel economy in mind.
The Fit is really a town vehicle for the wife, the bicyclist who wants something cool and sleek, and the young (or young at heart) who seek something that has 1 scoop of fun and 3 scoops of utility while getting 30+ mpg.
I think the Fit is fine but yes, that 6th gear would make it the gold standard.
@hughie522: yes, that’s electronic stability control. Same problem here – very few small & affordable cars Stateside offer ESC – the Scion xD (uglified Yaris) and xB, Mazda3 in higher trim levels come to mind.