My wife and I have been studiously and dutifully test driving cars because we are about to buy two. So far she is insisting upon the better look, roominess and fun to drive 2009 Mazda6. I can't blame her as it is fun and I love our 05 3 hatch. And as of now, after driving the Accord and Nissan and Fusion it has now become my very favorite smooth and buttery 4 cylinder car.But here's the problem… We drive long distances to visit out second home in the mountains of southern MO and we are also looking for a great road cruiser. This is done every two weeks. We want the luxury, but still some hinting of sportiness. Now, after testing so many cars, is it possible that the very best drive for the money is a Hyundai? We half jokingly tested the Genesis…but after the drive, we both stood there with our six foot son and wondered what had just happened. It was absolutely wonderful:
Powerful and quiet 6.
Road softer and sportier than the Avalon.
Great luxury MPG.
Tomb quiet.
The insides felt like Euro pillow mattresses.
Great looks, finish and outstanding paint.
Room for the kid(s)to enjoy the 7 hour drive.
This for around 35K?????
So help us! Please tell us what we missed before we buy! This cannot be true! – PPellico
Please tell us what we missed before we buy!
I can only think of two:
* The reliability is a complete unknown, but so is the new 6. Are you keeping it past the warranty period? A post-warranty luxury car could be an issue.
* It’s a sedan, not a hatch. As such, managing cargo is going to be annoying compared to your current 6. I have the same problem with replacing my Saab; anything without a trunk hinge at the top of the rear window just feels “wrong”.
I like the car, myself. It’s not my style at all, but it looks good and is well-equipped.
For “around 35” I’d get an A4 2.0 Quattro. Actually I’d probably take the A3 2.0 Quattro and pocket the five large.
Otherwise, you’re dangerously close to a Lexus ES with the Genesis, for resale alone you probably have to go that way, though the mandatory AARP membership may not be your style.
I would really just have a hard time telling anyone to buy a Hyundai brand spanking new, when I know that they sell for so much less barely used.
You’ll be jumping off a cliff with the depreciation, being a Hyundai and all. But that won’t be a big problem if you plan to keep the vehicle for a long time.
Being a new vehicle, its reliability is in question. Again, reliability may be an issue – and if it’s bad, may make you not want to keep the vehicle for a long time, thus getting hit with the depreciation.
Check Consumer Reports. They have suddenly gotten very high on Hyundai.
Simple answer — rent cars for your lengthy biweekly trip, and choose the car that you purchase based upon your other needs. If the distances to this vacation home are great, the cost of the rental will most likely be lower than the depreciation cost of the additional mileage on the new car. You’ll end up with a low mileage car in your garage, while donating the high miles to someone else.
estaboga – For “around 35″ I’d get an A4 2.0 Quattro
The A4’s way to small in the back seat for the 6-foot son.
How about a Cadillac CTS? With employee pricing I bet you could pick one up for $35k, TTAC 10 best and all.
Depreciation could be an issue if you don’t plan on driving the vehicle for the next ten years. Actually, when compared to a Mazda, the depreciation hit will probably be negligible much sooner (and this is coming from someone who loves his 2004 Mazda6s and almost went with a Mazda3 hatchback instead). Who knows what the reliability will be, but that could be said of any car, including a Toyota. Hyundai has shown marked improvement in quality over the past decade and is no longer the joke that it once was (that spot is reserved for Chevy or GM in general now).
Finally, in defense of the Mazda6, I can say that I have never had any problems with comfort in my Mazda6 during the 10 hour, 530 mile, drive that I make to my mom’s twice each year. However, I don’t have a 6′ tall kid int he back, just 6’1″ me and my 6’1″ wife in the front. You would be the best determiner of what is comfortable for your family.
I know this isn’t what you were asking for, but if you truly like it, why not get the Hyundai? It might be a mistake, but it probably won’t be your first or your last. It sounds like you have spent a lot of time researching and test driving; so, it’s not like you are choosing the Hyundai out of ignorance or on an impulse.
Although reliability is always a concern for first model year cars (as mentioned above) Hyundai has been significantly improving in this area as reported by CR.
Depreciation is always a big financial concern for a new vehicle, but if you plan on keeping it for a while the warranty (as I’m sure you noticed) is incredible.
As someone that does place a very high importance on reliability when choosing cars (next being it’s price:value quotient) I think this is a great buy. You take some risk (just as those first LS400 buyer’s did), but it’s seriously worth considering.
I say go for it!
Being a new vehicle, its reliability is in question. Again, reliability may be an issue – and if it’s bad, may make you not want to keep the vehicle for a long time, thus getting hit with the depreciation.
Had that problem myself when my brother-in-law and wife convinced me to buy a Saturn Vue. That car cost me about $8,000 in depreciation over 2 1/2 years of ownership until I just couldn’t stand the thing any longer. Eventually even my brther-in-law, who also bought a Vue, admitted that they had some problems.
FAKE WOOD.
Plastic lacks depth and isn’t warm or inviting.
GENERIC.
No badge, no identity, no style. It also looks like a car from three years ago, just like the Azera.
LOWER SOCIAL CAPITAL.
Everyone will think you are poor because buying a luxury Hyundai indicates a lack of spending power.
DEPRECIATION.
You will lose a lot of money on this depreciating asset. A Mercedes E350 is brand-new RIGHT now for 40k. (discounted)
SHITTY DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE.
I don’t know about you, but the Hyundai dealership in this city is a total ghetto. Contrast this with Newport Lexus/MB. Hell, each of the palm trees in front of the Lexus dealership is 100k. They pamper you, and service visits have a human element you can’t find elsewhere.
By the way, the recent Edmunds comparo? You KNOW they put Hyundai > Lexus only to generate buzz and traffic into their site. They did the same thing with the Veracruz and RX! Or was it C&D?
GET A PROPER LUXURY CAR. Don’t believe the media hype and save yourself buyer’s remorse.
No wonder you liked the Genesis; compared to the other cars, it’s one or two classes higher. The Genesis is competing in near 7-Class/LS/S-Class territory, size/comfort wise.
Jumping from a Fusion/Accord/Mazda6 to a $35k luxury car is pretty huge. The Genesis is a good car and Hyundai has staked much of their reputation on this visible new car, so you can expect that it will be well built and fairly reliable (hopefully), and it’ll give you a Lexus drive for an affordable price.
I’ve heard that the Mazda6 isn’t an ideal highway cruiser, as road noise (tire roar and wind noise) gets into the cabin, which can be irritating on a 7 hour drive. But I’ve never driven one, so I might be misreporting this information, also the new one might be better.
If you’re looking at the Mazda6, you might want to check out the Chevy Malibu LTZ 4-cylinder before making the final purchase. It’ll return great mpg and is relatively luxurious. It’ll probably cost $10k less than the Genesis, especially with GM’s Employee Pricing.
All told, though, I wouldn’t talk you out of the Genesis if you like it, I think it’s a beautiful car and a great value proposition.
Hyundai ran this vehicle in Korea for almost a year before it came to our shores. They tested the crap out of it because of what that car means to their hopes of moving upmarket. The V6 has been in the Azera, Veracruz and Entourage since 2007. I wouldn’t be scared of a Hyundai at all. The only people who don’t like them are the people who can’t get over the name. Everybody I know who owns a Hyundai has been extremely happy with them and typically Hyundai is top on their list when they’re looking to buy another vehicle. The resale may be a problem, but Hyundai’s resale value gets better every year.
I was thinking Audi A4 too until I read about your son with six feet. (Or was it that your son is six feet tall?) Anyway, the 2009 A4 is significantly larger than the preceding model. It’s overall a better car too in terms of luxury, engine, driving, etc. Unfortunately, you can’t yet get the 2.0L stick-shift front wheel drive version that should benchmark low 30s on EPA highway metric. Actually, I’m not sure you can get any 2009 A4 at the moment. Without your son’s 6 feet, a 2008 model could be a steal. I’ve seen them going for $26k including leather and 31 MPG highway figure.
romanjetfighter:
For many people their car is not an extension of their pe.. um..ego, so the social capital and generic parts of your post may not be valid for many.
I say it’s a good car for your needs, go for it.
just another car guy:
“The only people who don’t like them are the people who can’t get over the name.”
I think that’s a good point, actually. Hyundai should just go with “Genesis” as a new-lux brand name. They’ve mostly repaired the brand damage that the Excel did in the 80s. Now wipe the slate and build a new car brand from the middle up.
For what it’s worth, I’ve got 4.5 years and 83k miles on my Hyundai Accent. Bought it brand spanking new in early 2004. At the time it was one of the cheapest cars you could buy.
It’s been reliable (and the long warranty brings extra piece of mind). I’ve driven it on a few long trips (600+ miles per day) with no complaints. My dealer has been good for service as well, and treat me decently. I’m still on the original brakes, and MPG has been around 35 consistently. A few squeaks and rattles have popped up, but overall it has held up well — at least as well as the other cars I have owned.
I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend one to someone else. In my mind, Hyundai has shed its junk image and is the new Ford — surprising value for the price. If the Hyundai fits what you want, go for it.
@jpc0067-
I think that may be Hyundai’s plan in the long run, and perhaps the Genesis is Hyundai’s first attempt – just testing the waters, without having to spend the money required to build a new upscale/luxury brand from the ground up. IMO, it’s a good move; I don’t think Hyundai is fully ready to start fully competing in the luxury game.
When Toyota and Honda began Lexus and Acura, they were well entrenched in the American psyche as producing quality, reliable cars for roughly two decades. Though Hyundai has really gotten better, I don’t think their Excel crapmobiles are totally forgotten – though they are getting there.
If Hyundai continues moving in the right direction, and the Genesis doesn’t turn out to be a complete failure in the U.S. market, I think that, within a decade (and probably as early as five years), we may be able to drive to the local ‘Luxury Hyundai’ dealership.
If you want longevity and reliability (resale value) – Accord or Camry
If you want something affordable and cheap – Malibu with employee pricing
If you want something sporty – Mazda6 or Altima
If you want the most for your money – Genesis
DEPRECIATION.
You will lose a lot of money on this depreciating asset. A Mercedes E350 is brand-new RIGHT now for 40k. (discounted)
I was walking by a Mercedes dealer’s lot yesterday and looked at used car prices. Holy shamoli! Talk about depreciation. The first two years those things drop like rocks. I was astounded.
In comparison, there were a few used Boxters in the back, and they kept their values decently.
As for the Genesis, I can’t help you because I haven’t driven one. I would not buy the Mazda 6 though. I drove it for a few hundred miles, and I had to get out of it every 50 miles or so as the seat was playing a nasty on my sciatic nerve (kept pressing certain part of my butt where the nerve passes). I am 6’3″ 190lbs, so not exactly a challenge for a decent seat. The seats, btw, were leather and very hard, with deep, angled side walls.
I owned a Mazda 6 twin (Probe) long time ago, but with different seats (fabric, not as deep), and I loved it.
If it feels right, go for it. I distictly remember the press expressing doubts about the Lexus LS400 when it launched and they were wrong. And if you’re worried about the depreciation, take a look at the Acura RLs or the Inifinity Ms resale values to realize that the Genesis is the much better deal.
Funny, the exact same comments were registered years back by European car owners about Lexus; “No cachet”, “no style”, “Unproven as a luxury maker”, etc, etc.
I think you should buy the car you like best. If it’s a Hyundai, so be it; badge be damned.
I’ll be replacing an Acura TL in the next couple of years, and the Genesis is on the list of cars to watch. I generally buy used, so early depreciation is my friend. If the Genesis proves reliable, it’ll be a steal.
I think Hyundai’s resale value varies from region to region and on model. I had bought a 2000 Hyundai Tiburon (new) in 1999 and some of them used a year later were listed for as much or slightly more than what I bought mine for (and I don’t have the foggiest idea why).
I traded that car in back in 2004 with 113k miles on it for Grand Am GT sedan that I got for a really good price since GM had all sorts of cash on the hood and the dealership wanted to move it with the G6 coming out (I fully intend to drive this car till it dies since it has no resale value).
I have just under 80k on the Grand Am and it’s been a far worse car than my Tiburon was in almost every way.
I’d recommend a Hyundai over any of the Detroit 3’s products without a second thought. And based on price and features, I’d definitely go with the Genesis if you were that impressed with it.
@carguy/Zarba:
Difference is, Lexus had a selling point other than being inexpensive: it was freaking reliable when all the German makes weren’t. It also had the highest top speed!! Not to mention it’s own luxury brand.
Without a distinct luxury nameplate and sustained, successful marketing, the Genesis is going to fail. Horribly. Like the RL or first M from Acura/Infiniti, or the Mazda Millenia. You remember the Millenia, right?
@sean362880 :
The A4’s way to small in the back seat for the 6-foot son.
How about a Cadillac CTS? With employee pricing I bet you could pick one up for $35k, TTAC 10 best and all.
Aw, screw the kids, we all survived crammed in the back of mid-size cars, but the CTS is probably a more direct comparison, yep, you talked me into it. Get your CTS while the big employee sale’s still going on. Actually offer ’em less than the employee price (so long as you do it before the end of the month). If you can, wait for the wagon.
If you’re going to spend 35K, I’d consider a used Infiniti M35.
Hi…And thanks everybody for trying to help us.
But I need to correct some of the misgivings.
First, we ARE getting the Mazda6.
That’s NOT the problem.
The 6 is simply replacing one of our around town drives.
It will not be the road cruiser we are trying to find and TTAC has been kind enough to involve the best and brightest.
So, don’t worry about the Mazda6.
The question put to everybody is what long hour on the highway cruiser is the choice.
And the Genesis stunned us.
The highway cruiser…now that’s the problem.
I know everybody LOVES the Euro cars.
But in my earlier blogs, I have wondered if they are masochistic.
I mean please, to compare the hard ass seats of MBW and Audi to the seats of the Lexus, Acura or even the Avalon (let alone the new Genesis) is ridiculous.
Why do you need to sit upon hard leather in order to get luxury and sportiness?
So, the question is the 1) Genesis…Yes, a Hyundai Genesis with its very quiet drive, sportiness and powerful fuel efficient 6, 2) Toyota Avalon with its cavern like rear seat and wonderful V6 or, 3) Lexus ES 350….total luxury.
I guess I also need to add I care nothing about resale value.
Every car I have ever owned I still have or a family member has it parked in a college parking lot somewhere.
Resale has never been a concern of mine.
Prices…really, every one ends up around 36K for the packages required.
PLEASE HELP!
Hold off for now on the Genesis if you’re at all concerned by crash test scores. There are frontal and side crash issues that Hyundai needs to address. Sorry, I can’t comment any further at this time.
So my answer if you can’t wait is to get the Avalon or ES350 — both are reliable, comfortable and crashworthy. The ES350 has electronic stability control as standard, and so will all versions of the 2009 Avalon.
romanjetfighter:
Maybe you don’t understand the query; this person is not asking “What is the best car to impress my shallow neighbors and show everybody how rich and impressive I am?” He is asking whether the Genesis really is all it’s cracked up to be, the answer to which is yes. Hyundai is a respected brand which has made great strides in recent years in terms of initial quality and reliability. The Genesis is a great car for anyone looking for a fill-size luxury car, regardless of price; the affordability is just another notch in it’s belt.
Who cares if the Genesis fails on the market? Not PPellico. It looks like there’s one available for him to buy now. If this car suits his needs and is priced right, he should get it regardless of what brand snobs have to say about Hyundai.
This isn’t a question about how well the Genesis fits it’s segment, this is a question about whether someone who was delighted with the car should buy one. Lexus and MB can take a flying leap, some people like luxury and don’t like spending $50,000 on a depreciating asset regardless of what silly brand-indoctrinated people think.
I had the joy of swapping two bit of two suspensions a few years back. My friend and I drove and washed our vehicles in a similar fashion.
-My 1990 Civic had little to no rust on the suspension bolts. They came free with no problem.
-My friend’s 03 Elantra had significant rust and a few bolts broke when we tried to get them off.
I sure hope Hyundai can afford better steel for the Genesis than they did for the Elantra! Of course, no one ever reports on component rust (instead they report on just body panel rust).
Frank,
What about the G35 or the TL? Those are about the same price and are VERY comfortable.
Also, re the seats. Just because a seat seems soft and comfortable after 5 min – doesn’t mean your back won’t be screaming after your 7 hour drive.
One more issue to address…
I have absolutely no problem with image.
I have grown comfortable with my lack of status, low IQ, loss of memeory and sagging chest skin.
While others go through their mid life crisis and end with a sports car and new arm candy…again, my idea of great is a euro top mattress or couch!
I have even grown accustomed to looking in the mirror while drying off in the bathroom without suffering depression.
In fact, I think my blood pressure will drop a full 10 points everytime I get one of those “you drive a hyundai” smirks from any image struggling idiot on the road.
Well, the title says “Stop us before we buy” so I was merely trying to stop them. But if you really like this car, I’ll be really positive and say:
It’s quieter than an S-class.
Warranty will be good since you’ll be putting a billion miles on it.
Back space -IS- good.
Good stereo will be nice for trips.
:S
I still stand by my dealership experience point, though. If you like the look and don’t care about badge or potentially higher depreciation, ppellico, more power to you. :) Hope you enjoy your car when you buy it. (whether it’s the genesis or mazda or something else)
Hey all…
I want to thank everybody for trying to help with the best cruiser decision.
But…I think (I think) we solved the problem.
First, we decided there is no such thing as a car that can do everything.
Just like when we decided a mini van could do what a mini van does better than anuthing else, we didn’t fall into the crossover crap.
So, here it is again.
There is no car that can be the sports car, the luxury car or the roomy car we searched for.
The Genesis offered the sportiness and power…but not the room or the luxury.
The Avalon offered the room and the engine…but not the luxury.
The Lexus offered the engine and the luxury.
Well, it’s all about the luxury and the room for me.
Having driven all of them at least 3 times now, I (we…sorry love!) am opting for the Lexus ES 350 and its 7 hours of promising living room comfort.
None of the others offered its comfort and quiet ride with the power.
I will lose the sportiness…but that’s not that important driving 70 plus MPH and going straight ahead.
And believe it or not, as ordered, each one comes out at around 36,000!
Well, thanks again so very much for the input and advice.
But it’s the Lexus ES350.
With Ultra Luxury package (with included panoramic roof) 36,000.
Thanks again Frank and TTAC for allowing the team input.
Depreciation is always a big factor when it comes to big, comfy luxury cars. With that in mind, two or three year-old examples of any of the following cars are available in the $20,000 to $30,000 range:
Lincoln Town Car
Lexus GS & ES
Infiniti Q45 (assuming you can find one), and the G and M series
Audi A4 & A6
Acura TL & RL
BMW 5-Series
Cadillac DTS & STS
Jaguar S-Type
Mercedes C & E-Class
Just buy one of these, and prudently invest the extra money you’ll save from not buying the Genesis. That way, you will have money set aside for when (not “if” on many luxury cars) something breaks, or when fuel prices climb to the stratosphere.
ppellico,
I hope you are happy with your purchase, the key (i have found) to avoiding buyers remorse is by driving everything you are interested in and making an informed desicion. It seems as though that is what you have done.
My parents bought an ES last year and love it, for the luxury. It’s their living room on wheels. make sure you use the cruise control though, it is very easy to be going a lot faster than you think without much input from your right foot.
@ romanjetfighter,
Being a Lexus owner, I have no qualms about cross shopping a Genesis. I like it exactly for what it is, an Korean Buick. If GM sold the Chinese versions of the Buick Lacrosse and Park Avenue here, I would put those on my shopping list too.
Real wood isn’t important to me, and the cultural capital isn’t significant, considering most snobs are trying to convince us that this competes against an A4/3 Series/C Class rather than the A6/5/E-Class.
Also, for people worried about depreciation, why are you keeping your cars for less than 10 or 15 years?
“For “around 35″ I’d get an A4 2.0 Quattro. Actually I’d probably take the A3 2.0 Quattro and pocket the five large.
Otherwise, you’re dangerously close to a Lexus ES with the Genesis, for resale alone you probably have to go that way, though the mandatory AARP membership may not be your style.”
The A4 is MUCH smaller, and the A3 2.0T is not available in the US with Quattro.
There is no car that can be the sports car, the luxury car or the roomy car we searched for.
Well, yes and no. The closest I’ve seen to Nature’s Most Nearly-Perfect Car is the wagon versions of the BMW 530d (in Europe) or 535xi (in North America). Of course, you will pay a lot of money for perfection, but hey, life is short.
ppellico,
Good call, although given those 3 options I don’t think you could have gone wrong. My wife and I make a lot of looooong trips through ND to see family, and I’m all sorts of excited at the proposition of getting a comfortable cruiser. Enjoy the new car, happy driving!
@ Waftable:
I care because if I need to sell the car if I’m strapped for cash for an emergency, I can avoid a financial bath.
As for the cultural capital, I think you -should- care, because each culture has its own way of seeing things, including how to make/design cars. In fact, I think country of origin is one of the most important things about a car. By the way, I hope you don’t take me for a brand/culture snob just because I’m dissing Hyundai.
Let us know how you like it! Will we be seeing an ES350 review on TTAC soon?
hwyhobo: Speaking of epic depreciation, I was offered a 2 year old SL55 AMG for 36k and a lifetime warranty on the Sensotronic brakes. I think it cost around 160k-ish, new.
For a large highway cruiser, the Taurus/Sable is rather enticing to me. I’ve driven a few 500 AWD sedans as rentals (usually across the mountain west) and they are rather comfortable with excellent efficiency. I know they’re Ford products, but they cruise effortlessly and the AWD was a bonus when leaving a sleepy (and icey) small Idaho town in the early AM.
The Sable gives you a few more options and no chrome on the exterior. Plus, with massive incentives you could get one for $10grand under the others. Buy one a few years older, give up some power, and you’ll be spending $20grand under the others (that are new).
I’d consider one if I wanted a trunk in the rear 3/4 of my vehicle…and I’m under 30 with a Mazda3 GT wagon.
@Waftable
I merely wanted to point out the depreciation aspect, before PPellico stated he didn’t really care about it (I assumed since he was cross-shopping a Hyundai the badge really didn’t matter to him).
Depreciation isn’t too important to me, personally (I almost always buy pre-owned [read: used]), but I know it may play a role in someone else’s purchase decision. There are people out there who will buy a new car to own for only a few years, and that’s their perogative.
Good choice Frank. I was going to suggest the ES350, but then I saw you already bought it. It’s a boring-to-tears car to drive, but perhaps the ultimate road trip cruiser.
If you liked the spaciousness of the genesis, and liked the sportiness of the Mazda, I highly recommend the Acura TL. The dealers are likely trying to clear the 08’s right now before the new and less attractive 09’s come in. I paid 32k for an 07 about a year ago, Navigation and Manual, and love it. The back seat far outclasses the Audi A3/4, and the BMW 3 series as well. The driving experience is much better than the accord, camry, and lexus LS. The only car that we felt came close is the infiniti G35, but same as the A4- the back seat is tight. The dealership experience has been good, and resale is much better than Audi or Cadillac.
wstansfi
Thanks, and ditto to everyone else.
The reason for the ES350 was it has the engine and mileage WITH its unmatched luxury.
It is front wheel drive, saving me the AWD needed in our winters.
And leather so supple, none of the others come close.
Depreciation aside, it won over the Genesis only because of the luxury I mentioned and the FWD.
However, you and several others have a good point:
Wait for the new TL.
The current TL does not come close to the luxury.
Again, it was the usual trade off of performance and luxury.
There is no one perfect car that can give us everything we wanted.
So, it came (comes) down to the perfect long haul road cruizer.
It is the Lexus ES 350…until we test the late September arrival of the 09 TL.
Thanks again all.
Just buy the car you like. Don’t worry about anything else. That Genesis is gonna be turning a lot of heads and lotsa execs at Lexus, Audi and Mercedes are getting nervous. Those 3 have been over-charging with impunity for decades. No longer.
The best road trip cruiser may not even be a sedan.
I say Buick Enclave or Honda Odyssey.
Wow, all this new car talk. How about a 2004 BMW 5-series (I’d personally go with an E39- 2003 and previous) if you want sport or a E350 of the same year if you want luxury? You get low depreciation, the quality name, and some very well-made cars. It’s up to you to decide whether a warranty is worth that much.
You could buy a lovely 7-8 year old Lexus LS for ~$15K. That would be my choice for a long haul cruiser. Or a 4 year old Lincoln Town car.
seoultrain and other euro car devotees.
You see, I am a lover of the pure joy of driving.
That’s why I am a booster of Mazda cars and BMW and Audi.
However, this decision has been explained as a luxury (read comfort) decision.
And earlier I asked loudly WHY oh WHY all the German car seats are so damned hard to sit on!?
This is the reason why I cannot look anymore at the BMW 5, or any German car.
Believe me, my wife and I sat in every one, from MBnz, to Audi to BMW and even VW and Volvo.
But not a single one feels as luxurious as the Japanese.
I don’t know why it is.
My wife thinks they do their furniture the same damned way. It’s all rock hard.
Believe me, I really wish they had the comfort…or this whole excersise wouldn’t even be taking place.
Thanks again all and TTAC.
The ES350’s a good choice but how does your 6′ son manage to get into and out of the car? I almost bought one last year but for two reasons: I couldn’t see out the rear and I couldn’t get out of the back seat without help. Maybe if they raised the roof a couple of inches. lowered the belt line by a couple of inches, and increased the window area by half I’d consider it again. Otherwise, I think it may well be a Genesis for me when my current lease is up a year or so from now. And comparing lease rates on line, that Genesis comes in as an even better bargain compared to its competitors.
I am late to the party, but you sound like a guy who will like the Lexus. The ES is the smallest limo ever made IMO. For someone wanting a bargain in a luxury car that eliminates disagreeable interruptions to their driving experience, the ES is certainly a top choice.
ppellico :
The reason for the ES350 was it has the engine and mileage WITH its unmatched luxury.
However, you and several others have a good point:
Wait for the new TL.
It is the Lexus ES 350…until we test the late September arrival of the 09 TL.
Oh, I agree with you on the ES350.
But, have you SEEN the new TL? I wouldn’t even spend a dollar for a ten-foot-pole to touch that beast.
About the only other thing that comes to mind would be (of all things) the Camry SE — full-boat with V6, leather, etc. Definitely not in the same league as the ES350 in terms of luxury, but you’d trade a bit of that for some sportiness, in essentially the same vehicle. Plus, you might prefer the SE’s bolstered driver seat to the ES350 seat. And the money saved would pay for lots of gas to cover those miles with.
Ppellico, I made the exact same call for my father who wanted something other than a Lincoln for his NYC commutes and trips to Florida.
It’s the best car he ever had… period. For all the harping about the elitism and supposed price premium of Toyota products, they truly earn their accolades in the luxury realm.
I do like Hyundai. Heck, the Genesis is a wonderful opportunity for those wanting a full-sized upscale luxury cruiser. But most folks are perfectly happy with a mid-sized luxury cruiser. When you have to haul all that extra room that you never use, the pain at the pump becomes all the much greater… which reflects on Toyota’s recent decision to eschew full-sized models in this price range like the Avalon for mid-sized offerings like the Camry and ES.
Congrats again on a great decision.
I’m with Paul N. I went to test drive the Genesis and came away astounded, not just impressed, astounded. This is honestly an excellent car. No wonder a recent comparo placed the Genesis a winner ahead of the Lexus GS. I would not call it a Mercedes / BMW / Audi competitor, not for any substantive reason, but simply on styling. This car has the Infiniti M and Lexus LS/GS firmly on target. The interior is incredibly good in production form, very quiet, performance is adequate with the V6 and certainly on par with the M & LS with the V8.
Alex d…
How did you get to try the Genesis V8 when it’s not available?
Next, finished with all the help needed by this great group with advice on the luxury touring car, I have a disappointment I want to share.
It’s the new Mazda6.
First, as far as 4 cyl cars go, they did an excellent job.
The new 6 4 is really on par with any other and kills all with design and fun.
But Jesus! What in Almighty Hell were they thinking with the 6!
25 PMG in a car?
OK, OK…it uses regular so it scores points there.
But come on, its only 1 mile per gallon better than the FLEX, all the GM crossovers including the new Traverse.
Only 2 MPG better than the CX9!
THESE ARE TRUCKS!
And having driven it now 2 times, the pick up sucks for that mileage!
What were they thinking!
As a bleeding Mazda lover, owner of 2 Mazda3 cars…a (some day I will own one) Mazdaspeed3 lover, I feel deeply disappointed.
I so longed for this new 6.
But I simply cannot understand what they did here.
There had better be a mid year correction.
There had better be one of those EcoBoost engines put in real soon or this car will not do well.
Your thoughts everybody…
Paul
ppellico:
I should be a bit more clear. I have tested the V6 in base form and the V6 with all options. I have not tested the V8, however there are a number of V8 Genesis reviews out there. The only real changes are the engine and transmission. The ZF transmission is of course on par with the Euro brands since it is essentially the same unit BMW, Jaguar and a number of other marques use. The engine has received rave reviews and if the V6 is any indication I am inclined to believe everything I have been told.
Without doubt the biggest problems facing the Genesis are: snob value and dealership experience. The dealers I have visited have on the whole been good, but I can’t speak to the service experience. On the whole, don’t expect the same level of experience as Volvo, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. But then again. you are getting GS/LS quality for at least 10K off. So for you bargain luxury hunters, this is the deal for you. If you are after quality rather than the label, you are much better off with the Genesis than the ES350/GS350/GS460/Infiniti M. I’d say if you are after a 3 series or an IS or Infiniti G, then you are not in the Genesis’ target market. If you are looking at a BMW 5 or Mercedes E, then you might give it a look, but it might not be your style. If you are looking Infiniti M and GS but the price makes you think a bit, this is your ride. Similarly if you are looking for somehting more solid and luxurious than Acura, Buick, Chrysler, Cadillac STS/DTS, this could be a big step up in luxury for very little extra cash.