![\"Pickens managed to get the Texas legislature to use its power of eminent domain to hand it over to a little water district he created with his wife and a friend. Pickens plans to use it to pipe water at enormous profit from his land to Dallas (apparently he\'s been buying up massive water rights from the Ogallala aquifer), and as long as he\'s got all this cheap land, he figures he might as well build electricity-transmission towers on it too.\" (text from CBS, pic courtesy seekingalpha.com)](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/tboonepickens291106.jpg "\\"Pickens managed to get the Texas legislature to use its power of eminent domain to hand it over to a little water district he created with his wife and a friend. Pickens plans to use it to pipe water at enormous profit from his land to Dallas (apparently he\'s been buying up massive water rights from the Ogallala aquifer), and as long as he\'s got all this cheap land, he figures he might as well build electricity-transmission towers on it too.\\" (text from CBS, pic courtesy seekingalpha.com)")
The ironically named Kevin Drum takes on once and former oil man T. Boone Pickens' plan for American energy independence. After CBS' Drum has his wicked way with Pickens' not-so-well publicized personal financial interests in the matter, there's hardly a shred of credibility left upon which the Texan can wipe his ass. So to speak. "So T. Boone Pickens has an energy plan he wants to sell us. The basic idea is simple: Build a bunch of windmills in Texas to generate electricity, and then use the electricity to power electric cars. Voila! Energy independence! No, wait. That's not it at all. What Pickens actually wants to do is use the windmills to replace the electricity from existing power plants that run on natural gas. Then we can use the natural gas to run our cars." Hmmm. "Along with being the country's biggest wind power developer, Pickens owns Clean Energy Fuels Corp., a natural gas fueling station company that is the sole backer of the stealthy Proposition 10 on California's November ballot…. But a closer read finds a laundry list of cash grabs — from $200 million for a liquefied natural gas terminal to $2.5 billion for rebates of up to $50,000 for each natural gas vehicle. Much of the measure's billions could benefit Pickens' company to the exclusion of almost all other clean-vehicle fuels and technology." Is that why GM was talking up CNG cars recently? Hang on; one conspiracy at a time, please.
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It wasn’t long ago that Pickens was predicting $180+ barrels of oil. When I heard that, my immediate thought was that he was shorting the market. This guy is only in it for himself.
Having said that, I don’t think that the general idea of natural gas as a vehicle fuel should be dismissed out of hand.
No, GM was talking up CNG because it’s cheap and easy to do, rather that investing in the significant reegineering needed for things like hybrid drives. It’s a marginally more expensive (though very clean) alternative to ethanol.
Oh, and CNG works best in big, crude vehicles like, oh, pickup trucks and full-size sedans like the Impala and Crown Vic.
Now, I know what you’re thinking: psarhjinian is a Honda fanboy and is conveniently ignoring the Civic GX. The difference between the GX and a propane-powered pickup truck is that very few people actually buy (or would put up with) a Civic GX, where a CNG truck would sell very well, especially with a big, fat CAFE exemption.
I actually like CNG/LPG as a fuel. It burns very cleanly (and, when made from biomass, can be carbon-neutral) and doesn’t require much in the way of modification. If I ever come into a fat chunk of money, I’m buying a stupidly overpowered car and equipping it with a CNG/LPG so as to assuage my guilt.
The plan makes sense and would relieve a very large percentage of oil use. The fact that it benefits pickens should not detract from the merits of the plan. Pickens is an entrepreneur and a highly successful one at that. Why has that become such a bad thing of late?
“It wasn’t long ago that Pickens was predicting $180+ barrels of oil. When I heard that, my immediate thought was that he was shorting the market. This guy is only in it for himself.”
Market manipulation is what they are ALL trying to do. Just this morning, Petroplus puts out a statement predicting $115 oil for the foreseeable future. I’m sure well see a statement come out from Goldman Sachs here in a few days predicting $125 oil.
There is absolutely no purpose for Pickens or Sachs putting out statements predicting the price of oil, except to try to manipulate it to their advantage. Period. End of Story.
Now as far as Picken’s plan, he’s got the Wind power part of it right, regardless of his motives. The Natural Gas part of it, not so much.
And I thought that TBP’s “plan” had the interests of the USA at heart…
Fool me once… shame on… shame on you.
Fool me… can’t get fooled again.
Age hasn’t withered Mr Picken’s greed; well done to CBS for airing the fact.
use windmills to replace natural gas plants to save the natural gas for cars?
maybe T Boone Pickens needs to read up on Base Load and Reactive Power…you know, the things that real power plants can support.
just another guy trying to scam the public and politicians with wind power. but the natural gas car thing is a nice twist. +10 points for originality.
I’m pretty sure that wind power gets backstopped with natural gas, which can be brought on-line very fast. Adding wind and de-emphasizing other sources will tend to improve sales of Pickens’ natural gas.
And natural gas produces CO2. Perhaps less so than other options but a considerable amount, nonetheless. If you happen to regard driving CO2 levels upward as unhealthy for climate (as I do), then this plan not a plus.
The plan makes sense and would relieve a very large percentage of oil use. The fact that it benefits pickens should not detract from the merits of the plan. Pickens is an entrepreneur and a highly successful one at that. Why has that become such a bad thing of late?
I agree. At some point we’ll have massive wind and solar farms that will be built with either public or private money. How much could be have done with the money wasted in Iraq? Not to mention the death and destruction. Given our HUGE debt even before the as yet unknown Fannie/Freddie bailouts, my guess is that the energy farms will be private with whatever tax incentives the well connected investors can obtain. Boone shouldn’t get all he wants, but I’m glad he’s calling attention to the issue.
Hmmm….. give a rich, Texas, redneck my energy dollar or the Saudi Royal Family to fund Al Qaeda? Why does anyone in the United States have a problem with this?
Golly. Why all the hand-wringing over TBP’s attempt to make more dough courtesy of taxpayer dollars? Gosh, how do you think Your President amassed his own personal fortune? It sure didn’t come from GWB being successful in the oil business.
This is the “American Way” in our current political system….
CBS just really hates Pickens for “Swift-Boating” Kerry.
The Natural Gas part of it doesn’t make sense to anyone but him. There is no way to logically convert 200 million cars to CNG, nor to setup CNG refueling stations everywhere.
The Wind Power part??? I’m all for it. Let Pickens make all the money he wants in Wind Power, it is good for the USA.
i thought this was apparent from day one???
All of this crap is smoke and mirrors so he can sell water to Dallas. Everything else is just gravy.
And the “Daniel Plainview” Award goes to….
-or-
Who has been drinking the milkshakes?
This is the “American Way” in our current political system… – thoots
One small change: this has ALWAYS been the American way under all political climates…and there is nothing wrong with it.
T. Boone Pickens is a pioneer–the first eco-capitalist in the US. Making money is what drives everything in the US, even the production of our dirty coal electricity. How much do you think the coal lobby spends in Washington each year to keep EPA and other exemptions in place? Why are we knocking this guy for trying to make a buck while getting us off foreign oil? Wouldn’t capital investment in renewable energy industries be a long-term gain for the country and the economy?
T. Boone Pickens is a pioneer–the first eco-capitalist in the US.
Not even close to being first. “Pioneer” is not an apt description. He makes better TV commercials than those who preceded him, no doubt, but he is far from being first.
Why are we knocking this guy for trying to make a buck while getting us off foreign oil?
Because his “plan” (“scheme” is more like it) isn’t going to do anything to reduce oil imports. It’s really a scam meant to pull tax subsidies out of the government.
If you want to reduce oil imports, here are a few basic ideas: Drive less, drive a smaller car when you do drive, reduce your consumption of goods that are made of petroleum products and reduce your consumption of goods that get shipped long distances.
What all of those solutions have in common is that they are all up to you to undertake, not something that a politician or rich guy with good TV ads can do for you. Independent, self-reliant do-it-yourself American thinking, not pointing the finger at the other guy to do it for you.
If you think that you can reduce US imported energy dependence without substantially downshifting your lifestyle, then you’re just fooling yourself. It’s up to you.
“Why does anyone in the United States have a problem with this?”
So long as he doesn’t get the politicos to jigger the laws to give him a monopoly or to force people to buy from him it’s not a problem. Free market capitalism is great. The problem is keeping the market free. It’s especially distasteful when this sort of monopolistic behavior wraps itself in the flag while Americans are dying overseas.
The plan makes sense and would relieve a very large percentage of oil use. The fact that it benefits pickens should not detract from the merits of the plan. Pickens is an entrepreneur and a highly successful one at that. Why has that become such a bad thing of late?
I agree completely. In a country like ours there is no other way to get things done unless money is involved in some way (usually a very large way) and if it takes Pickens wanting to line his pockets to finally get things moving in the right direction then that is fine by me.
@briancataldi:
Fine. Them YOU pay for it if it’s that big a deal to you. I’ll be damned if the government takes more $$ out of my pocket to line someone else’s pocket (see Prop 10 in California).
@bunkie:
So long as he doesn’t get the politicos to jigger the laws to give him a monopoly or to force people to buy from him it’s not a problem.
He already has, through some shenanigans with eminent domain.
Hey PCH,
We are lazy. We want what we want and we want it cheap. We are the nation of WalMart. We didn’t used to be, and who knows what it will take for us to get off our overfed, sweaty, tv watching asses.
The overwhelming sense of entitlement is sick, and we’re choking on it. It took gas to get to $4.50 before people started to drive a little bit less. In that sense, we may be fat and lazy, but we’re really not stupid.
Bwa-ha, does anyone else find it funny that Kevin Drum’s critique against the Pickens Plan features an ad banner across the top that says “PRESENTED BY EXXONMOBIL?”
Now who’s the conspiracy theorist?
Seriously, why not let’s judge the “plan” (which is really more of a general idea as far as i can tell) based on its own merits, not whether Pickens has a stake in it. If it’s a good idea, why the hell wouldn’t he want to be invested in it? He’s a billionaire investor. That’s what he does.
I’d find the Pickens Plan less credible if he wasn’t invested in it.
How about converting the homes that use heating oil to natural gas and rerouting that oil into diesel cars? With the price of diesel costing more than premium, it doesn’t make much sense to buy a diesel car.
Seriously, why not let’s judge the “plan” (which is really more of a general idea as far as i can tell) based on its own merits, not whether Pickens has a stake in it.
I’ve done that. The plan is meant to put tax subsidies into Pickens’ pockets. His profit will come from the taxpayer and by assembling investments.
It will not reduce US dependence on foreign oil. If you know anything about energy, it becomes really obvious why this is the case.
There is nothing wrong with wind power, but to sell it as a viable alternative to foreign oil is a baldfaced lie.
The fact is that virtually all of the US’ natural gas consumption never goes anywhere near an electrical power plant, and most electricity is generated by power sources other than natural gas.
Natural gas is not a substitute for gasoline. If it were even possible to build a massive fleet of natural gas-powered vehicles, that would simply make us dependent upon imported LNG, which is more expensive and doesn’t fix the dependency problem.
The search for easy-solutions-from-the-other-guy answers leads to these bogus “plans.” This is simply a way to transfer your money into Pickens’ pocket. If you want to use less imported energy, then use less energy. The answer lies with you, not somebody else.
Pch101: If you think that you can reduce US imported energy dependence without substantially downshifting your lifestyle, then you’re just fooling yourself. It’s up to you.
(gunshot sound, Pch101 falls)
Adam West: There, now no one will have heard him say that.
Anonymous poster #1: But we all heard him say that.
(gunshot, AP#1 falls)
West: Anyone else hear anything?
Anonymous poster #2: My wife did.
(cut to black, credits appear, gunshot)
err actually the vast majority of new power plants are powered by natural gas.
nearly half of the power generated in Pickens’ home state of Texas is powered by natural gas plants.
I believe one commenter asks the question Hmmm….. give a rich, Texas, redneck my energy dollar or the Saudi Royal Family to fund Al Qaeda? Why does anyone in the United States have a problem with this?
I’m from Texas (not a redneck though) and I have no problem giving a rich redneck my energy dollar as opposed to Saudi princes.
what I do have a problem with is stupid ideas. Picken’s idea is blatant political manipulation of people who don’t know any better.
basically T Boone Pickens’ wants you to believe that building wind farms will reduce our oil imports from the middle east. now if you’re an informed person you’re probably asking yourself “WTF are you smoking TBP? Those things aren’t related at all!!!”
“AHA” TBP replies. “They ARE related if all our cars which run on oil somehow run on magical natural gas. If that’s true, then my windfarms can reduce natural gas plant usage. And then we’ll have more natural gas for our cars. Damn I am so smart and rich.”
He introduces the idea of a natural gas car purely to link oil imports (saudi = bad) to his wind farms (alt energy = good).
what a crock of shit. wind farms don’t really replace natural gas plants and a natural gas based auto infrastructure is pure fantasy … and TBP knows it.
*cough* government money grab *cough*
Another tiresome one-sided political snark from CBS. Talk about lack of credibility. I quite watching 60 Minutes and the CBS evening news years ago when I realized the former is a collection of hatchet jobs and the latter puts a left-wing spin on any story. It’s funny how they are obsessed with the wealth of Pickens and such, when Couric, Wallace et al, the CBS brass, and their heroes such as Gore, Kennedy, Edwards and Clinton are all multi-millionaires themselves. Somehow their motives remain pure.
Pickens is a shrewed businessman, to be sure, but he’s also generous–and with his own money. Anyway, a profit motive doesn’t automatically taint a venture. Drum should have asked Texas legislators and Dallas officials why they support Pickens’ plan. And by the way, eminent domain doesn’t mean “cheap land” (and/or easements); market value disputes are resolved in an impartial court. Oh, and whatever gas may come from Russia or the Mideast will be insignificant in the absence of pipelines under the oceans. So, Drum, what’s your plan?
How is this a conspiracy? A really rich guy sees tremendous opportunity in a period of tremendous change. And he’s trying to get things to go his way so he can make even more money. It’s not like he’s hiding it, it’s his PLAN! That said, somebody has to get things going here, and it sure ain’t ExxonMobil.
TBP may be an old, greedy redneck but at least he is talking about something which should be of emminent interest to a country consuming daily 10-13 mil barrels of foreign oil especially during a presidential campaign.
You Americans are in many respects like Detroit, living in your own alternate universe. You are completely oblivious to the fact that while your economy is crumbling and with it your status as a superpower because you are daily handing over billions of your ever more worthless dollars to your friends in the Sunni Arab world which they then use to buy whatever worthy assets you still own (such as your banks). At these oil prices how long will it take before the Arabs own the whole superpower or whatever is left of it?
For a good perspective from your friends in Australia read this http://business.theage.com.au/business/oblivion-becomes-the-oblivious-20080806-3qpm.html
err actually the vast majority of new power plants are powered by natural gas.
The Energy Information Administration says that 20% of US electricity generated during 2006 came from natural gas. Which means that 80% of it didn’t.
To put that in perspective, 2006 was the first year when the US got a higher proportion of its power from natural gas than it did from nuclear power plants.
PCH101: The fact is that virtually all of the US’ natural gas consumption never goes anywhere near an electrical power plant, and most electricity is generated by power sources other than natural gas.
You’re flat wrong PCH, as a moment of Googling would reveal to you. Nat Gas is a major source of electricity fuel. Here in Texas — a rather large and populous state — gas provides right about 50% of the electricity, and its rising cost has been the reason that the retail price of electricity has doubled in Texas in the past 5 or 7 years. In fact I’ve now cut my electricity rates by 23% by switching to a 100% wind power account, so that certainly works for me.
You are right inasmuch as, as long as we use any oil at all, we’ll be using cheaper foreign oil, true. So call that “dependence on foreign oil” if you like. But any competing transport energy source can only help make oil cheaper than it would otherwise be for us, which is a benefit (to be weighed against the costs of alternatives).
PCH:The Energy Information Administration says that 20% of US electricity generated during 2006 came from natural gas. Which means that 80% of it didn’t.
Additionally, you are missing the point that while nat gas was not much used in the past for electricity, it has been THE preferred fuel for new power plants built in recent years. Hence its role is only growing, quickly. Even further, it’s key that there are many domestic sources under development and coming on line — the US has plenty of natural gas. Alaska just approved a freakin 30 billion dollar pipeline to ship it south to us. That’s just the pipeline!
Put it in cars? I don’t know. But you may as well quit arguing with us about it’s use by utilities.
You’re flat wrong PCH, as a moment of Googling would reveal to you.
Your Google must operate differently from that of other people.
How does 80% of total electrical production coming from sources other than natural gas possibly support your position?
(And please, let’s remember that Texas is only one state in a nation with 50 of them.)
PCH, how does that fact you just learned — that 20% of the world’s largest economy runs on electricity fired by natural gas — square with your claim that “virtually all of the US’ natural gas consumption never goes anywhere near an electrical power plant”?
Pickens may well be in this for his own greedy reasons, but I like the idea of SOMEBODY DOING SOMETHING. The idea of bypassing the red tape and lethargy of large enterprises both governmental and private is very attractive.
http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/uses.asp
30% of natural gas is used by electric power generation according to the site. I’d say that’s a pretty big percentage.
but all this is beside the point. TBP’s linkage of oil dependence and wind farms through the natural gas car is still a bunch of baloney.
we have plenty of natural gas now to utilize for transportation usage. no need for TBP to save the day with his white knight windfarms
PCH, how does that fact you just learned — that 20% of the world’s largest economy runs on electricity fired by natural gas — square with your claim that “virtually all of the US’ natural gas consumption never goes anywhere near an electrical power plant”?
It’s simply a lie to claim that natural gas plays a dominant role in producing US electricity. That’s clearly false, and something that the Pickens Scam brushes off.
Even if you double the use of wind power in the US, it does nothing to change US natural gas consumption at all. The annual growth rate in electricity consumption is many times greater than this amount.
The Pickens Scam calls for the construction of a 4 thousand megawatt wind farm in Texas. During 2006, the EIA reports that 813,044 thousand megawatts of power were produced with natural gas.
So even if this fantasy were to come true and all of that wind power went solely to reducing natural gas consumption for power generation (a complete joke and something that would not happen, but that’s your best case scenario), that would mean that the net reduction would equal less than 0.0005% of the natural gas used to produce electricity. That’s right — 5/10,000th’s of one percent.
Five minutes spent with a calculator will tell you that this is completely meaningless in creating energy independence.
You would be better off making sure that that you had enough air in your tires. You’d accomplish even more if you could telecommute once a week, and either carpool or take mass transit at least one day a week. Make your own plan.
…when I realized the former is a collection of hatchet jobs and the latter puts a left-wing spin on any story…
If you think CBS and Bill Clinton are left-wing, then you’ve no idea what a real left-wing is. As a left-winger myself, a little bit of me cries whenever I hear someone call people like Clinton or Barack Obama a leftist. I cry a lot when I hear “radical leftist”.
Che Guevara was a radical leftist. By American standards, people like Angela Merkel or Stephen Harper are radical leftists. Bill Clinton is not a leftist.
On this topic: I don’t think it’s a half-bad idea, but it’s entirely the wrong way to go about things. Wind power, sure, but converting en masse to CNG? That’s just window-dressing that fails to address the real need: reduced consumption.
Wind power, sure, but converting en masse to CNG? That’s just window-dressing that fails to address the real need: reduced consumption.
That’s correct. Wind power is fine, but the US can’t produce enough of it to make any difference at all. It’s only a supplement to the existing infrastructure, not a replacement for what’s here now.
If wind is an offset to anything, it’s coal mining, because natural gas is increasingly being used as a “clean” replacement for coal and oil-fired plants, and coal is the primary source of US electricity.
The problem, though, is that this is becoming increasingly true around the world, too, not just in the US. Increasing US gas consumption just puts into us into the path of more opportunities for conflict with other countries for the scraps, because the US would have no choice but to ramp up its gas imports.
I’m sure that Iran would like it, because they hold some of the world’s largest gas reserves, and would surely enjoy another chance to grab the US by the short hairs. I wonder if Pickens has a copy of his Scam in Farsi?
PCH It’s simply a lie to claim that natural gas plays a dominant role in producing US electricity. That’s clearly false, and something that the Pickens Scam brushes off.
Boy can’t imagine just what your bug about gas-fired power plants is. I think we’ve established even to you that natural gas accounts for somewhere from 20 – 30% of electricity. That may not make it the #1 source, but it does make it #2 or #3. And that’s pretty impressive.
However I’ll totally agree w/ you that wind cannot displace natural gas any time soon. Wind only accounts for 1% of electricity generation. Any switch to alternative energy will take a VERY LONG time, and it’ll take ages to build enough wind turbines to make it a leading source. As it is everyone in the Wind Power supply chain is absolutely overwhelmed trying to meet orders — there is a hard limit there of scarce resources, human and material.
Something Al Gore, for example, wouldn’t comprehend.
I think the Pickens plan for wind and natural gas is probably worth trying to the degree it’ll help, but one has to be realistic about how long it’ll take to make much of a difference. But just because it won’t solve all energy problems tomorrow doesn’t mean it’s some kind of scam.
“Hmmm….. give a rich, Texas, redneck my energy dollar or the Saudi Royal Family to fund Al Qaeda? Why does anyone in the United States have a problem with this?”
Can someone please educate stupid rednecks like this person above!!!
This anti-islamic Bull Shit has got to stop! My neighbor is Muslim and is a College Professor and he recently got told to “Go play in the sand Towelie”
He was also Sent a death threat after 9/11.
This guy isn’t sketchy at all, He’s super nice! He plays with his kids in his yard all the time and he helps me with my yard work and I with his. I’m proud to have him as my neighbor and friend!
Im glad I wasn’t around when there was anti-Italian beliefs in this country. I don’t think I could have handled that.
PCH… I personally think NUCLEAR is better than Natural Gas… There is a finite amount of Natural gas, But nuclear reactions can be made with many different molecules. and besides when those rods build up and we don’t have room to store them, we will have saved enough natural resources by not burning oil/ coal ect.
We can just shoot all that Nuclear waste shit right out into space! problem solved
Mars- earths newest landfill!
But just because it won’t solve all energy problems tomorrow doesn’t mean it’s some kind of scam.
It’s a scam because Pickens wants more benefits than the tax credits that already exist to subsidize the construction of his wind farms. In essence, he wants a special benefit accorded to him that none of his competitors are going to get.
It’s a scam because he has made a bogus connection between wind power and your car. If you think that these two things are related, then the solution is simple: put a damned windmill on top of your car.
It’s a scam because Pickens isn’t telling you that the US is importing natural gas today and is on track to import more of it in the future as demand rises. So guess what: increasing our dependency on natural gas ultimately increases our dependency upon imported energy, the very opposite of what Pickens claims will happen.
The Pickens Scam is an empty vessel, waiting to be filled with your money. He’s obviously excited about it, because he’s willing to spend a lot of money lying to the American people to conceal that what he’s really trying to do is to gain an unfair advantage for himself over other wind farm developers, and that he’s willing to lie to everyone to get it.
The Pickens Scam will not reduce energy imports at all. Not one single bit. If you want to reduce US dependency, then the solution lies with you. You can’t buy your way out of this one, you’ll just have to use less.