"(Americans see it as) their God-given right to buy the largest vehicle they possibly can, own as many vehicles as they can, trade them for new vehicles as often as they can, drive them as much as they want and wherever they want." The idea that the average American is a stupid, selfish, size-obsessed planet-killer is an intellectual conceit, created and perpetuated by intellectually-conceited members of the European chattering class. In truth, Americans are no or more less politically, socially or environmentally aware than their European equivalents. But analyst Dennis DesRosiers isn't entirely off-base when he says there's only one "real" reason Americans aren't continuing their fuelish ways: they're broke. "If gas prices come back down to earth… Americans are going to go back to larger vehicles and watch out, there may just be a shortage of capacity." IF gas prices stay level for five years AND people can get out of their loans, maybe. Meanwhile, not. And a shortage of capacity? Only if you define "too much" as "not enough." But is there anything really fundamentally wrong with wanting a large, comfortable vehicle? See? We're already engaged in that debate. All of us.
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“(Americans see it as) their God-given right to buy the largest vehicle they possibly can, own as many vehicles as they can, trade them for new vehicles as often as they can, drive them as much as they want and wherever they want.”
I would substitute “whatever vehicle they want” for “the largest vehicle they possibly can”. Then, I would agree. I’m sure some people do go out for “the largest vehicle” they can get, but most just get what they want. It just so happens that now, many people want more economical vehicles.
Wow, totally off base as stereotypes manytimes are.
I’m American and I have 3 vehicles – a motorcycle, a car for the wife, and a sports car.
The sports car gets driven in the winter, the motorcycle in the summer, and the economy car year-round.
We live near 2 major train lines, and several bus lines, and typically take those if we are not in a hurry. I say that meaning exactly that — getting to work yesterday, knowing the schedules of the trains & having gps tracking on the bus took me 66 minutes to go 7 miles.
Our largest vehicle space-wise rates as “compact”. We have never owned nor have any need to really buy anything bigger than a “compact.”
2 of the 3 are paid off, and the sports car we are up $10k on (big downpayment).
So much for stereotypes, eh?
Next vehicle will most likely be a cruiser/sport tourer motorcycle, probably end of summer 09 or beginning of summer 2010, unless our compact beater dies before then.
One slight correction to the podcast; Northern Ireland, like Wales, is a part of the UK. Wales, however, is also a part of Great Britain, which Northern Ireland is not.
And which one of you was in the train station/airport terminal?
So people tend to buy the most appealing vehicle within their price range? That is not exactly news but the way all free markets should work. Europeans do the same but with different criteria. So how is that ugly or selfish? Should we buy products we don’t like?
No, we should buy products the PTB’s want to force upon us.
Camrys and Corollas for all!
I’m European and living in the U.S.
And I’ve spent a fair amount of time explaining to American greenies that Europeans aren’t nicer people than Americans. True, they’re less consumerist overall, but the main reason why they drive smaller, cheaper cars, is because gas is so expensive. And also because the car culture is not nearly as strong as in the US.
This said, I’m very happy about the current gas prices, and it pumps (!) some sense into Americans’ minds, which is a great thing for everyone, but mostly for said Americans. Fulfilling needs instead of desire is no bad thing, especially for a nation that is so reluctant of accepting the concept of externalities (I know, I know, I bring it up in every post).
We went through this same oil price cycle from 79 thru 82.
I know it’s “different this time” but maybe it’s not….
Flexibility will be key.
Personally I think it’s a great time to grab a nice used PU or SUV at a rock bottom price.
That is one beautiful Eldorado.
But is there anything really fundamentally wrong with wanting a large, comfortable vehicle?
Ummm, NO!
I may ask:
1)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong with buying the vehicles that better suits your tastes and needs?
2)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong with buying whatever vehicle you want?
3)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong with having more vehicles than the ones really “needed”?
4)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong about drivig to wherever and whenever you want with such vehicle?
The market was drifting away from the larger SUVs even before the recent run-up in fuel prices. Recent fuel prices turned that movement into a stampede.
As for who likes big cars – I work part-time at the Carlisle Production car shows. These shows are quite popular with Europeans. With the low value of the dollar, many Europeans are snapping up vintage American iron, and the bigger and flashier it is, the better.
Swedes, in particular, love big American boats.
Man, that Dennis is one feisty Canadian. We may dig big cars but the times they are a changin, my friends. The Cadillacs have been getting smaller every year, driving is down in the country, and there’s people on a 3 year waiting list in the US to buy a freeking Smart Car. Maybe the consultants should look at the facts.
I prefer the uncaffeinated, snarky and sullen Justin.
Kinda like I like the just-woke-up, wiping the sleep-outta-my-eyes Jonny.
Believable, likable both.
When i wake up and look in the mirror i’m thrilled to be American! Its rather nice to be able to enjoy the fruits of the earth. Until all enviromentalist give up their own standards of living and go live in a cave I’ll conserve when I can [read: feel like] and tell them to stick it where my suv won’t fit when i feel like burning rubber. Most of the time (winter too) i get 65 mpg on a tiny 250 motorcycle (me looking like an ape on the thing).. and i drive by them in the comfort of their smart cars or civics or whatever
When i wake up and look in the mirror i’m thrilled to be American! Its rather nice to be able to enjoy the fruits of the earth. Until all enviromentalist give up their own standards of living and go live in a cave I’ll conserve when I can [read: feel like] and tell them to stick it where my suv won’t fit when i feel like burning rubber.
This post above would pretty much confirm the stereotype, wouldn’t it?
Born and raised in the USA but have been to other places in the world and have made it a point to at least try to open my eyes to other cultures and mindsets of folks thoughout the world.
IMO it is high time for American to play “the man on your shoulder” game and try to look at the world from a different prespective.
Never have I seen a group of folks the preach about freedom so much but are perfectly willing to have big business lead them around by their “tools”.
Do Americans really like the biggest and most WASTEFUL of everything or are we just a bunch of fools that allow “Madison Ave” to twist our minds into simply giving up or HARD-EARNED dollars like a bunch of crack-junkies on a bunch of stuff we do NOT need or even really desire.
I mean have a good look at an Escalade, WTF is it other than a work/utility vehicle with a bunch of cheap chrome and leather slapped on it. This vehicle does not say “The Best” in anyway! It might say “cool” but at the end of the day it is like a McDonalds being considered upscale because owner now require the fry-cook to wear a chefs hat. The joke is that there are many Americans that will pay extra (waste money) to purchase the same cheeseburger because a guy in chef’s hat is now flipping it.
You don’t need an independent rear end on the Mustang. It becomes just like everything else with IRS.
With a live rear, it’s a unique experience.
Just tune ’em all like the Bullitt.
I like Justin’s upbeatness… it made me giggle a few times, and it’s a stark difference from before.
That being said, SCREW ALL THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS when it comes to cars. Let us pick what vehicle we want, let the automakers make desirable cars. We don’t all want to be driving Fits, and it would make life much less interesting (at least for me) if we all had to. Besides, what is life worth if we aren’t allowed to enjoy what it has to offer fully?
Who wants to live in a world where everyone uses just what they “need” to survive? There’d be no music, no art, no beautiful homes, cars… for aren’t these all unnecessary and using up sooooo many resources? Pshbt.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting bigger vehicle, but I don’t like how the owners of said big vehicles are the first ones to be on the local news complaining about gas prices. My problem isn’t with the choices, it’s with the not realizing the consequences. When you buy a thirsty vehicle, you feel more pain when gas prices spike. Period. I just wonder if any of the people on the 5:00 news next to their ExpeburbarangofinderRunner considered that. If not, why should I feel sorry for them?
whatdoiknow1- why complain about the Escalade only?
If someone is already going to buy a large truck like vehicle than an Escalade is no different than any other.
AKM- which part of Europe? The car culture seems pretty strong in the UK.
Big cars will sell well again. The trick is going to be figuring out what big cars that people will buy. SUVs were the replacement for the big sedans and wagons that everyone had before. Maybe crossovers are the next big thing?
Wanting to drive a massive vehicle affects others. Something becomes fundamentally wrong when you piss on the safety concerns of everyone else to please your own whims. Your life happens around me too.
But is there anything really fundamentally wrong with wanting a large, comfortable vehicle?
Ummm, NO!
I may ask:
1)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong with buying the vehicles that better suits your tastes and needs?
2)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong with buying whatever vehicle you want?
3)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong with having more vehicles than the ones really “needed”?
4)Is there anything really fundamentally wrong about drivig to wherever and whenever you want with such vehicle?
My answer to all of these is NO.
However – don’t whine and complain about high gas prices when you exercise these rights. When you make your bed – you sleep in it…
Phil Gramm had it right about his “nation of whiners” comment…
Bravo Justin!!! We can hear you and we are listening.
Speaking for myself, and I am sure a few others, this is our car porn and you guys are the (insert favourite starlet here).
Some people watch pro sports, some listen to radio commentators, this for me (us) is the one of the great simple joys in (my) our lives. Awesome editorials, superb writing and easily the B&B in all the net. Polite, informed, insightful.
And joy of joys, Linda Lovelace(or whoever) enjoys the job again.
Thanks.
Americans responded to high fuel prices, the same way that many in the rest of the world have for decades. This included driving less, using public transportation more frequently, and purchasing more fuel efficient cars. All of these behaviors were brought about by high fuel prices.
It’s amazing how many things some attribute to culture which are mostly the result of economics.
Carshark:
The local news LOOKS for the complainers, otherwise it wouldn’t be “news”.
Wife and I love our 4Runner. Its paid for and I ask no sympathy from anyone.
I know it was previously mentioned, but man, that Eldorado is a beautiful car.
Of course I’m a sucker for older cars, as I own a 67 Galaxie convertible.
By the way, the price of gas, and the knowledge our money is going to our enemies, is the only reason I’d downsize vehicles.
I drive a Civic, but this is my choice. I also realize it’s not right for everyone. If I had more than one child, I would probably want something with a bit more room. Sometimes, when my husband and son and Yorkie are all in the car on a long trip, I wish for more room and contemplate an SUV/CUV/minivan or at least an Accord. But then I don’t cry at the gas pump either. When gas prices rose to nearly $4/gal, it made $30-40/month’s difference in my budget, not a problem.
But if you want/need something larger, that’s cool. We’re about choice here, just (as others have pointed out) be prepared to live with them. If you’ve paid for and/or can afford the Tahoe/Sclade/F150 and its gas, great! If not, then them’s the breaks.
Life is a trade-off. If you get a big honkin’ vehicle, and/or one that has a 3.5L or bigger engine and goes 0-60 in a millisecond, you’re going to sacrifice mileage and possibly have to put premium gas in it (in luxury cars anyhow). If you like an economical car as I do, you’re going to have to give up on room and not be as zippy or smooth as the BMW. In fact, mileage goes down pretty quick when you want more room, and I’ve gotten spoiled to 32+ combined, having begun my driving in 1980 during that price spike.
Maybe one day we’ll have more choices of alternative, renewable fuel sources. Necessity really is the mother of invention, and some bright person may find a way to do this, or some of it anyhow. Who knows–perhaps we’ll be able to have a little each of room, comfort, performance and mileage? Until that happy day, we live with the options we have now. Choose wisely for your circumstances, then enjoy your vehicle without regret.
Wow. That is a picture of an early 1970s Eldorado. They were enormous. My father, of blessed memory, had one for a while. It took two passes to get the thing up the parking ramp at at the office building where he worked.
It was duce and a quarter long and had a 500 cu. in. engine. It could go when urged — I remember doing over 100 mph on the outerbelt — but it would not burn rubber. The amazing thing is that despite being a front driver (on the same platform as the Toronado and the Rivera) there was no back seat legroom at all. This has been a characteristic of GM designs since forever.
When his lease expired, Dad, at our urging, bought a M-B 280 SEL 4.5 (W108) which was much smaller than the Caddy (about 30 in. shorter) and which lasted him about 14 years.
R F You finally posted a picture of my car, 30 years ago I bought a 68 Eldorado just for its looks, still have it.
This morning I had the opportunity to take a 30 mile business trip in traffic in a borrowed Audi A4 with all options. Traffic sucked, but what I was thinking was “This is the type of car Americans would want, if they knew what they should want. Fairly small yet with a usuable back seat, big trunk, engine that pulls strongly across a wide band, that eats potholes, that cruises without effort at 85mph. I’m shocked that that sort of car doesn’t do far better. Jetta for one.
On another news item a car salesperson ranted about his buyers and the fact that people want big cars but can’t afford them, here’s a quote from a man who worked for Reagan. “THE PROBLEM IS GREED, & THE LAKE OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILYTY.”
People can do what they want. We have laws because people many times can’t be trusted to act in anyone’s interests but their own. People CAN buy big cars they don’t remotely need and say screw carbon footprints. People can be greedy. People can say screw everyone else.
It’s a good thing that the number of people using mass transit is up. Watch it go down as gas prices do. So the ugly American acts only in his self interest. The silver lining to high gas prices is that we were using less.
The man was C Everett Koop
Frantz : When i wake up and look in the mirror i’m thrilled to be American! Its rather nice to be able to enjoy the fruits of the earth.
James Watt said just that.
Sorry to be a party pooper, but since practically forever, waste has been seen as a ethical problem. Especially when wasting a scarce resource has externalities.
For instance, if your rich neighbor feels he needs to eat illegally-imported Persian caviar for breakfast each morning, you can criticise him on several levels: he is breaking the law; he is (indirectly) helping a rogue regime; he is (probably) playing a part in the extinction of a fish species. If your neighbor said to you: “it’s the American way to spend my money the way I want to”, you’d laugh in his face.
What’s the problem with using a wasteful car on a daily basis? Well, cars depend for about 50% on oil products which come from the enemies of the Western world. Do you feel good knowing that your money is lining the pockets of people who finance Osama and stone adulterers and homosexuals? (Would you buy a car made in North Korea?)
Another point would be that since oil is a scarce resource, every wasted gallon drives up the price for everybody else. It’s not like some guy who eats three big macs for lunch.
(I’m not gonna get into the global-warming topic, because that would feed the trolls).
If you agree with my premise that wasting gasoline is harmful to society, then you can still employ the hedonistic argument: “I don’t give a shit about society, I only care about what makes me feel good”. But it’s for good reasons that this website is not called IDGASAABC (“I don’t give a shit about anything but cars”).
I’d like to argue that upbeat-Justin is snarkier than uncaffeinated-Justin.
“Phil Gramm had it right about his “nation of whiners” comment…”
Only partly. It would appear that a very rich man who is a public figure should be somewhat more cognizant of the inadvertant power of irony.
So, Martin, when I find that facts show my conclusions about something were wrong, I change my mind about it.
What do you do?
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milenio.com%2Fmexico%2Fmilenio%2Fnota.asp%3Fid%3D651680&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=es&tl=en
If someone disagrees with you, this makes them a troll? Just wondering.
One more thing…
The first-gen FWD Eldorados are some of the finest examples of Cadillac style. And the Art-and-Science styling, in my opinion, owes much to this car. Remember some of the renderings of the new CTS? One of them had a trunk and taillight design straight from this car. I’m sorry it turned out to be bit of photoshop whimsy.
Believe it or not there is more to Korea than dog eating. Their society is a lot more refined than most.
GS650G :
Believe it or not there is more to Korea than dog eating. Their society is a lot more refined than most.
Just as there is more to America than hot dog eating contests.
cgd>
You can have your cake & eat it too! For $8500 out the door new you can buy a sportbike that does mid to high 10’s 1/4 mile stock, that returns you 40+mpg. 0-60 in the mid 3’s in first gear.
Unfortunately you have to give up passenger room, trunk (my backpack is my trunk), and put on 20 pounds of safety gear that really only protect you if you are sliding on the ground…..
It is ironic and somewhat funny to listen to Americans bitch and moan about the high price of everything nowadays yet for the most part they appear to be entirely too ignorant to identify their cupabilty in our current situation.
DO you guys know how silly you look complaining that the government need to “do something” (cant say what) about the price of gas. AS IF, buying vehicles that uselessly need twice as much fuel to run does NOT have “something” to do with the problem. I guess folks never take into consideration just how much extra petroleum is being used to create all the extra sqaure yards of plastic inside your SUV.
Today MIDDLE-CLASS America is broke! Like a bunch of fools they simply transfered the vast majority of middle-class accumulated wealth into the hands of a relatively few wealthy Americans and international players that beat the drum of wasteful consumption.
Today the government that they think should “do something” to help thinks the solutions is to give you back about less than 1% of the your total tax burden in hopes (with a great deal of encouragement) they you will simply go right out and transfer this little bit of cash right back into the hands of those same wealthy folks that DO NOT feel any responsibilty to never maintain or repair any of the infrastruture of this country (unless it is on their own private property and paid for with your tax dollars).
It is sad to see that folks are too stupid to understand that this whole idea of “ME above everyone else” is nothing more than a dumb poly for you to overcome any sense of community and feel comfort in being a selfish jerk-off. THAT IS HOW AMERICAN BIG BUSINESS WANTS YOU TO THINK!
Folks that talk that “I’m a unique individual American” are NOT free thinkers but actually indoctrinated fools marching to a standard drill.
Everyone should spend some time in the advertising and marketing business in the USA.
IF you do you will quickly come to understand how the whole SUV fade was “created” by some clever folks. Come on, did you actually believe that one day millions of good ole sedan driving American just woke up desiring a 5000lb SUV?
Also spend some time in waste management in the USA to get another perspective on our AMERICAN culture. Go to a landfill or recycling plant and have a good look, I don’t see garbage I see a great deal of wasted US dollar that did NOTHING to make our country a better place.
“A FOOL AND HIS MONEY WILL SOON PART”
Menno: your link leads to unreadable gobbledegook.
Today MIDDLE-CLASS America is broke!
I’m not broke and neither are any of my friends or family. I don’t think things are nearly as bad as some would have people believe. I’m not saying it’s all good, but it’s not all bad either.
whatdoiknow1 :
It is ironic and somewhat funny to listen to Americans bitch and moan about the high price of everything nowadays yet for the most part they appear to be entirely too ignorant to identify their cupabilty in our current situation.
We are indeed fortunate to have folks like you to point out our ignorance.
DO you guys know how silly you look complaining that the government need to “do something” (cant say what) about the price of gas. AS IF, buying vehicles that uselessly need twice as much fuel to run does NOT have “something” to do with the problem. I guess folks never take into consideration just how much extra petroleum is being used to create all the extra sqaure yards of plastic inside your SUV.
Would agree that those blaming the government (other than taxes which are necessary to maintain highways, etc.) are mislead. Supply/demand is the usual culprit and lifestyle adjustments will likely be made over the long-run.
So far as what vehicles people buy, how would you have any idea what lead me to buy an SUV? Unless, of course, I am presumed to be an ignorant ass simply by the act of purchasing one.
Since I have no idea where you live, or what your needs are, I will refrain from suggesting what sort of car you should buy.
Today MIDDLE-CLASS America is broke! Like a bunch of fools they simply transfered the vast majority of middle-class accumulated wealth into the hands of a relatively few wealthy Americans and international players that beat the drum of wasteful consumption.
My family is about a solidly middle class (in economic terms) as we could be. So were my folks (who were products of the depression and knew the value of a buck). They were certainly not broke, nor are we. If we have to tighten our belts a bit, so be it. It will not be the 1st time and likely will not be the last either.
Today the government that they think should “do something” to help thinks the solutions is to give you back about less than 1% of the your total tax burden in hopes (with a great deal of encouragement) they you will simply go right out and transfer this little bit of cash right back into the hands of those same wealthy folks that DO NOT feel any responsibilty to never maintain or repair any of the infrastruture of this country (unless it is on their own private property and paid for with your tax dollars).
I read the above paragraph several times and admit to having some difficulty deciphering it.
If your point that the government wanted us to spend the tax rebate quickly, all I can say is that we were not told to spend it foolishly.
If I understand that you expect private individuals or corporations to spend money on (badly needed) infrastructure improvements, please let me know where this happens.
It is sad to see that folks are too stupid to understand that this whole idea of “ME above everyone else” is nothing more than a dumb poly for you to overcome any sense of community and feel comfort in being a selfish jerk-off. THAT IS HOW AMERICAN BIG BUSINESS WANTS YOU TO THINK!
I believe that you have already pointed out our collective ignorance, for which I thanked you graciously.
Folks that talk that “I’m a unique individual American” are NOT free thinkers but actually indoctrinated fools marching to a standard drill.
Once again, thanks for pointing out our foolishness. May I ask how you managed to escape this indoctrination?
Everyone should spend some time in the advertising and marketing business in the USA.
IF you do you will quickly come to understand how the whole SUV fade was “created” by some clever folks. Come on, did you actually believe that one day millions of good ole sedan driving American just woke up desiring a 5000lb SUV?
A good point indeed. I’m sure that most of us were unaware the most sales of new products were advertising driven. I always wondered how people in that industry could keep a job.
Also spend some time in waste management in the USA to get another perspective on our AMERICAN culture. Go to a landfill or recycling plant and have a good look, I don’t see garbage I see a great deal of wasted US dollar that did NOTHING to make our country a better place.
Would agree that some people replace things before I would. This obviously makes them foolish people.
“A FOOL AND HIS MONEY WILL SOON PART”
True that.
On a more serious note, have to say that I get as tired of people telling us how we should live our lives, as I do of Madison Avenue telling me how much I need the new “Flubber-mobile”.