Back in March at the New York Auto Show, Brian Shipman of Pontiac told me that the G8 ST (Sport Truck) – a direct import of the Australian Holden Ute – would not offer a V6. It made sense, as this was a glamour truck rather than a work vehicle. Since they figured 40 – 50-year-old guys would just buy them fully loaded (the car, not the middle-aged buyers), it didn't make sense to offer cheaper, lower-spec versions. They'd never be as cheap as a two-wheel drive, four-cylinder compact truck. So a done deal – V8 only? Nope. GM confirmed today that they WILL be building a V6 version of the G8 ST for the American market, because of the whole gas price thing. Except that in the sedan, the V6 returns essentially the same mileage as the V8. So, uh… The good news: the V6 for both the ST and G8 sedan will be the 3.6-liter direct injection V6 with 304 horsepower from the Cadillac CTS and upcoming Camaro. That's really nice and all, but c'mon, I still want the V8. At least we know GM is still interested in driving any of its credibility into the ground by faking-out their remaining customers.
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How in heavens name did this announcement get turned into another indictment of GM?
What is “faking out” about this? They’re responding to changing market conditions – much faster than normal.
Gosh, don’t buy the V6 and then scream “I coulda had a V8!”. By all means buy the V8 Justin.
@DPerkins:
Because they said “V6 and V8, and manual transmissions.” Then they said “V8 only, auto only.” Now it is “V6 or V8.”
What’s the change in market condition here? The MPGs are basically the same for the G8 V6 and G8 V8?
Given the V6’s fuel consumption there’s really no point in getting it over the V8, except to shave a little money off the MSRP.
Like Richard Hammond wrote in Top Gear magazine about American muscle cars, the V6 is there “for idiots to buy”. “It’s like going into a dragon shop for a pet and coming out with a poodle.”
Amen.
But in real world driving, isn’t the V6 going to return better mileage numbers?
And the V6 should be cheaper, correct?
“How in heavens name did this announcement get turned into another indictment of GM?
What is “faking out” about this? They’re responding to changing market conditions – much faster than normal. ”
Oh man!
RF?
“No flaming the site, its authors or fellow commentators.”
In reality, the V-8 would require less throttle to move the same weight. Torque model deal. And it would develop that needed oomph at a lower rpm, and pull a higher final drive.
Seth L
Probably not enough better to make the loss of performance worth it. I have a G8 sedan and it returns 17-20MPG all city driving. Edmunds had a G8 V6 and averaged 16MPG city driving.
If GM really wanted to increase fuel economy they would offer every G8 model with a manual transmission, not just the upcoming GXP.
The G8 ST is basically a coupe with a big open tray in place of a rear seat and trunk. It’s begging for a manual transmission across the range which this car and all it’s variants are already built with in Australia.
300hp is a lot for a base engine – I don’t get what shame there could be in buying that V6. The people who think that way could be offered a 300hp V6 or a 250hp V8 and they’d buy the V8!
Which means this thing’s base engine should be some cheap old V6 with power in the low 200’s. There are plenty of reasons to buy a trucklet besides Ultimate Power, and those buyers shouldn’t be limited to the desires of the power crowd.
Seth L : But in real world driving, isn’t the V6 going to return better mileage numbers?
Maybe if the average speed of your commute is less than 15mph, when idling a 3.6L engine is better than a 6.0l. The 3.6L is a rev happy motor, in the CTS the peak torque is above 5000rpm.
I seriously doubt the 3.6L will fare much better than an effortless V8 in this tank. And if the V8 gets the Corvette’s double-overdrive T-56, the V6 is pointless.
EDIT: I just said what TriShield said. Oh well. :)
Noted. Thanks.
To answer my own question on the V6 being cheaper:
The v8 is probably going to have bigger incentives slapped on the hood. At least after the initial ‘image’ buyers have come and gone.
V8 it is then.
Justin
What’s the change in market condition here?
The U.S market has taken a sudden interest in fuel economy – the V6 option gives GM a nod to that market shift (even if the benefit is small).
“Don’t want a big honkin’ V8, step right over here, I have a V-6 for you”.
monkeyboy
How the heck is my comment ‘flaming’?
If I could fit my kids in this bad boy…I’d consider it.
And no, I can’t put them in the bed ala Subaru Brat’s of yesteryear.
Oh and Dperkins…..had you truly flamed you’d know it within 1 minute and 34 seconds as you would receive hate mail.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, as the V6/V8 debate idles along, the hands have this question –
Presumably the G8 ST sells for about the same price as the G8, so is there a market for a $30K sport truck? I mean a market big enough to bother with?
In other news:
“The Titanic will be powered by a V6 on its maiden voyage across the Atlantic.”
Unless GM comes up with a miraculous way to cut the price of this thing in half, this is going to be yet another spectacular money loser.
BTW, I love the concept and would buy it – but not for $30K – not now, not ever, not even close.
hwyhobo
Agreed.
Even with a V6 I fear that this is another niche product. Unless the development costs were very low (using the Ute – G8 platform).
I can’t see this thing selling. It’s a niche item. So what it has a V6 instead of a V8. People will avoid it anyway. The term V8 has a lot of negative caché now with gas prices. What they should dump in it is a 4 cylinder with a turbo, ala the GTI. That is if they have a 4 cylinder that can develop more than noise at high revs. So we’ll see a lot of hype and advertisement and in 6 months they will be parked next to the Solstices in the lot, at deep discount. Also it should be a Chevy and called an El Camino. That way they would sell at least a couple more before the doldrums set in.
Around $30k is the going rate for V8 muscle cars (which is what the G8s are) and I feel that’s fair for what you get in a car like this. It’s also in-line with the other cars of the same type you can buy while adding a bit of utility.
I paid under that for my sedan after finding a dealer to dicker with, but this was the for 08 sedan before the price increase on the 09. I’d frankly rather own an ST for my needs than a truck. I hate the way trucks drive, they are much thirstier, I love performance, and they are overkill for my needs. In fact I suspect a car like the ST would fit most people’s needs for hauling just as they do in Australia.
I’m planning on getting a Camaro SS eventually but would reconsider if GM offered a manual transmission on the ST with the V8. From what I’ve heard that’s probably not going to happen.
More importantly, is this new V6 worth a damn in the long run, or is it going to be like most other GM 6’s and start wheezing and clanking before it even gets to 60k and want a rebuild?
How a company can make such good 8’s and lame 6’s is amazing. It’s not like BMW where they can make inlines but not V’s. That’s at least understandable.
Unless there is a significant gas mileage improvement, greater than 2 mpg combined, I see absolutely no reason to buy the V6 variant. If they are offering it in response to higher gas prices, weren’t they just as high or actually higher in March as they are now?
If they put a 2l 4 cyl diesel with a stick in it, it might be utilitarian, get good gas mileage, and enough torque, but then it wouldn’t fit the (poorly conceived in my opinion) glamor buy niche this thing is aimed at. I don’t think there is a way they can make it a profitable exercise. Pity. I really like the concept.
“The Titanic will be powered by a V6 on its maiden voyage across the Atlantic.”
Yeah, but it’s going to be a really big V6…
The thing to remember is that the current G8 V6 Sedan has the NON Direct Fuel Injected HFV6 so you would expect the fuel consumption figures to improve for the Direct Fuel Injected Engine. Basically the G8 V6 is based on The Holden Commodore SV6, so this proves to me that next year the SV6 will be getting the DFI 300 HP engine. Probably along with the Calais and Statesman/Caprice.
A point of interest, the V6 in Australia is available with a 6 Sp Manual gearbox (Aisin I believe, same as the new Camaro) so if Fuel consumption becomes even more of an issue this could be offered.
The reason there is no Manual V8 is because the DoD L76 V8 doesn’t work with a manual. The GXP will use the LS3 and have no DoD, so hence that is why it can have a manual box.
A v-6 can be an economy engine. A 300 hp v-6? Not so much. They wont sell for 30 grand for long. Anyone remember another futile exercise with a bed? SSR anyone?
I hear that GM commissioned this model at the behest of Bill Clinton; make sure to tick the option “Astro-Turf Bed Liner”.
Yeah, they’d need a 15-20% improvement in MPG to justify the V6, and since it’s a “high-tech” V6, it’s probably not going to be that much cheaper than the “8”.
Thanks to GM for taking a chance to offer something other than a 4-dr, 4cyl, Asian econobarge.
The SSR was a cool vehicle. That retractable roof? Sweet! The only other thing you could get something like that on from competitors was that Lexus sport coupe thingy. Then the G6 and the XLR comes out with it.
That thing is going to be an utter failure… Just like the SSR chevy.