Warning: you might want to turn down your volume when that Audi TT with a new turbo upgrade hits full boost. The last time I heard a whine like that was when the Pratt & Whitney engines on my jet spooled-up, developing 21k lbs of thrust apiece; and it only does 0 – 60 mph in about 15 seconds (and then 60 – 250 mph in another 15). Which brings me to my question. I've seen many a car "tuned" beyond belief, many with ridiculous body kits to emphasize the fact. How much tuning on a car it too much? When does the tuning destroy the car's original character and turn it into a peaky, unreliable mess? I like it when people modify cars, especially when it builds upon the car's strengths and tones down its weakness (like the above Audi). But looking around me on Friday nights, sometimes I think it gets a bit extreme. What say you?
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On a new car: Any is too much, you should have bought a different car. Seriously, you just voided the warranty and screwed up a car that took millions in development to sort out. I used to love when C&D invited the top sport compact tuners to show off their best work and then put all the cars to shame with a lower total cost stock C5.
On an old car: There are times when a part that needs to be replaced can be replaced with a better part; I say go for it. The e36 is notorious for needing upgraded front ball-joints and rear control arms. Also, there is a bit of sentimental value when a car gets old, so I can see the justification in updating and improving it instead of replacing it.
I have to give a huge amount of credit to the people in the video for leaving the exterior stock, exterior “tuning” is by far the worst sin.
When does the tuning destroy the original character of the car and turn it into a peaky, unreliable mess?
A engine that’s properly built shouldn’t be a peaky, unreliable mess. Anybody who builds an engine like that didn’t do their due dilligence in planning what they want to do with their car and is just shooting to turn their car into a dyno queen.
From personal experience changing the tires and suspension on a car makes for a whole different car. Add an intake, exhaust, music and some styling bits and its a ride like no other. One of a kind. My friend has an E30 318i 4 door with light weight rims, stick, My E30 325is is quite a bit different, and a E30 325is lowered with light weight rims was a hugely different drive. Whole different cars. Tuning can take a car very far. I think there is a lot to tuning many folks still need to learn. One can have things a factory stock car will never get near to. Brand new cars never before imagined. Tuning skill and knowledge though needs to be learned.
I know I have lots to learn about tuning. Like how spring rates affect corner entry, and throttle response and brake force affect the character of vehicles, and tires and dampers and steering ratio, and camber and mounts and weight etc etc, its pretty exciting but challenging.
I will make an exception to my “no tuning new cars” rule for highly competent cars that have been deliberately kept down for marketing purposes.
If I was loaded the first thing I would do is put a GT2 engine in a Cayman.
I might also be tempted to stick Infiniti’s new V8 in a Z (something Nissan won’t do, lest they anger Godzilla).
But those are only crazy things I would do for the hell of it if I was rich. Tuning an Audi TT (which is already a tuned Golf)? Come on, you should have just bought a Boxster S.
And please, I beg everyone, leave the Civics alone.
I like tuned Civics, or need I put up that youtube video of a Civic hatchback going toe-to-toe with a Viper R/T?
Rice, kraut (German riced up cars), and corn (American riced up cars) don’t belong on the cars. Tasteful modifications for looks as in subtle (not hey I want my 105 hp Echo to look like a Ferrari), well design performance modifications that do not render the cars usefulness (slamming it 1″ off the ground you can’t even get in and out of driveways or adding a 3 layer wing that takes 3mpg off your highway miles and yet does not help with downforce…just drag). I’ve modified many cars in my youth – CRX with b16a1 and lsd tranny (no bodykits, etc.), Protege5 with t03 Super 60 trim intercooled turbo (passed a Stang Cobra on the straights at Summit Point running 11 lbs of boost on a stock 2.0 bottom end), etc.
It’s like asking people what they would consider “daily driveable.” At my high school, someone had a ’96 Neon R/T he gutted and stripped to the point where the gauge cluster was ziptied to the dash support beam and he left out his shift knob. He had nitrous, open headers and cut springs.
Too much tuning is when can be heard 5 blocks away, and get pulled over 3 times driving across town and have to turn off your car at stoplights.
My favorite is when the rags to a puff piece tuner challenge, and half the cars DNF, “But they can run in the nines” just not today.
Engineers design cars to certain structural limits. Tuners who do not know and/or go beyond those limits wreck their rides and/or their bodies. Any number of Youtube videos showing crashing vehicles or melting engines on Dynos (with owners sometimes howling with glee ((WTF??))) will show that.
Meanwhile, TTAC, the Audi’s RWD GT3 spec R8 is out there – is that a car that Tuners would want to do anything with?
a) Immediately visible (subtle is fine)?
b) Compromises reliability?
c) Compromises useful features (cargo space, for example)?
Yes to any of the above is too much for me. I have no desire to look like I’m fourteen.
But then I wouldn’t have the fun watching and listening to an old Honda Civic or Subi with its extreme 4 inch exhaust loudly leave a stop light , rapidly grinding through its gears…and slowly passed by minivans and pick ups.
The neon R/T was released in 1998.
Meant to write “when the rags DO a puff piece”
quasimondo
I drive a Civic 5-speed right now, and it is a damn fun car, but anything more powerful needs RWD to drive properly.
A grainy night time street racing video is no proof at all; the Viper driver was probably just smart enough not to take his car near its limits on public roads. Find a Civic whipping a viper on a drag strip or race track.
It’s kind of like this:
So, as I approach an intersection on my way to the office this morning, some high-school punk in his 15-year-old riced-up Civic with a coffee-can-sized fart rocket on the back decides to Fast and Furiously blow through the thing without even looking, until he sees me and we both do emergency stops.
Luckily, we didn’t hit, so I didn’t have to stop, get out my baseball bat, and beat him to a bloody pulp.
And that’s what’s wrong with “tuning.” It leads to punks who don’t pay attention to the fact that there are thousands of other people around them who are just trying to get around on the streets safely. It’s not a race, people. Put the fart cans away, pay attention, and DRIVE.
There can never be too much tuning. Trying to find the last few horsepower is fun. And for some cars, tuning is needed: my WRX was so gutless below 3500 rpm that it was dangerous when pulling out in front of traffic.
Putting on bodykits is fine if they make the car look better, but some cars are grotesque. But I don’t consider cosmetics “tuning.”
I don’t really have much of a problem with them.
I do, however, enjoy passing them in my own crappy car, because all the power in the world doesn’t let you go 100 in traffic in the right lane.
BTW: What do you fly, Mike?
I’d like to see these “tuners” back off tuning their street cars (because that usually results in people getting hurt or killed) and get into tuning race cars.
Same goes for the idiots who post crappy street race videos on YouTube and StreetFire.
Get to the track!
When you can’t put the power down.
Honestly, I think that a lot of what you see in tuner magazines is completely pointless. 400-500 horsepower in a street driven car leads to a car that you are barely using in traffic so you can show off at the drag strip twice a year. This is especially true with these large turbos with huge lag that have become so common.
Also, if you are using that 500 hp at the track, what is with the 15 lcd screens and the 100 lbs of stereo equipment? Strip down a beater and stick good brakes, suspension and engine components in and track the car. Then, with the money you saved, buy an old corolla to get to work. This, however, will not attract the ‘fly honeyz’. Perhaps a pre-owned BMW then.
Hi Guys, this is my first post,
I usually dont like excessive Tunning, but there’s a guy in the UAE that goes by the name of Mohamed Bin Sullayem, 14 times FIA middle east rally champion with too much money to spare. he has all the super exotics you might want in your garage, and in his spare time, he hires proffesional racing engineers to tune up his household fleet.
he dropped the SLR engine into his wife’s SLK, now that is what i call cool. (it took some metal cutting though, i think)
oh did i mention that he was in on the Nissan GT-R development Program?
Ron
i would say suspension is really the biggest area where any kind of after market parts would really pay off. the factory always dials in some understeer and the shocks/springs are a little soft.
MINI Cooper S By Pass Valve. Is it tuning if you are replacing a poorly adjusted and functioning POS?
Putting pretty much any amount of tuning into a car that is primarily street driven is a waste of cash.
Any money I’d put into my STi, I’d rather put towards a litrebike which at the end of summer I can snag for $9-10k new with warranty and does a high 9’s stock 1/4 mile.
Way faster than I ever need.
Also: I do not consider replacing stock, worn out parts (pads, rotors, other consumables) with stronger/better quality parts “tuning”.
Side note: I do not consider “going fast in a straight line at all costs” worth putting money into. Getting better track times might be….but I can name on one hand guys I know who hit the track. I also think track/driving classes are better to put money into than parts.
Too much tuning? No such thing. Stock is boring.
“I usually dont like excessive Tunning, but there’s a guy in the UAE that goes by the name of Mohamed Bin Sullayem, 14 times FIA middle east rally champion with too much money to spare.”
I think I’ve seen that guy on the road. I lived in Dubai 2004-05 and I saw him or at least his Enzo on Sheikh Zayed Rd. between interchanges 1 and 2. You know he was on the “list” when the Enzos were for sale.
As for tuning. I have a pretty modified S4 wagon with the bigger K04 turbos off the RS4 of the same generation. But with everything I have done I have kept it as stock looking as possible. Silver Stoptech brakes so they don’t stick out. No front mount intercooler and I’m even planning to raise my car a little bit when I get some coil overs to replace my worn bilstein shock / lowering spring combination.
As for my engine, unless you know what you are looking for, most people would see a stock engine when you lift the hood. As for power the car really has enough at 450 HP. While a little less punchy than the K03 off the line the K04s are by no means too big for the engine. While going with the bigger RS6 K04s that some people are now doing or even the few odd ball Garrett turbos would be “nice”. The reality (aside from the big money involved) is that the power not at all usable on the street and even questionable for HPDEs. It’s really most useful for dyno queens and drag racers. If you want a turbo dyno queen or drag racer you are probably better off anyway with the cheaper to modify Evos or STIs.
It’s your car, as far as performance goes, do what you want as long as you upgrade the brakes and tires to keep up..
It’s OUR community. Keep the excess noise and tire marks for the track.