Exchanging emails with GM's VP for R&D Larry Burns, Design News reveals that the plug-in electric – gas hybrid Volt's much-discussed 2010 "completion" date means "selling Chevrolet Volt to real customers in 2010." But Burns admits that there's a small "challenge." "One of the important challenges remaining is proving ten-year, 150,000-mile life when we're developing the battery over a three-year timeframe," acknowledges Burns. "Obviously, we'll protect the customer in this regard with our warranty, but we still need to prove out the required durability." Or… plan to take a bath on warranties six or seven years in? Then there's the issue of quality control; the Volt's "battery packs will each have 200-300 cells, which need to work all the time." As opposed to regular cars which you can just kind of slap together? Anyway, it's not long before Burns is making his case for Uncle Sam's assistance. "The industry is transitioning from the old automotive DNA of stand-alone vehicles that are powered by internal combustion engines, energized by petroleum and largely controlled mechanically," says the R&D VP. "We're moving to a new DNA that encompasses electrically driven vehicles energized by electricity or hydrogen, controlled electronically and 'connected' to other vehicles and the infrastructure." And that means "government is an equal partner with the auto industry and the energy industry in realizing the transformation to advanced propulsion vehicles." So… "we're also going to need government help in the way of incentives." Yes way.
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The government didn’t promise to put Volts in the showrooms in 2010.
The government didn’t make GM fall ten years behind Toyota in hybrid development, then decide that they needed to take a monumental leap forward in technology and do it in three years.
GM needs to own their shit. To channel a little Jim Rome: “If you can’t keep your ridiculously ambitious promises, stop making ridiculously ambitious promises.”
Whenever I hear Detroit’s automakers asking for a handout I’m tempted to jump up and down and scream at the Federal government, “Don’t give them any money!”
Keeping these bloated, dying dinosaurs alive will only ensure they continue to build poorly-built, gas-guzzing SUVs when what America really needs (I won’t say ‘want’ because, let’s face it, we haven’t been the brightest bunch in the past) is smaller, better-built and more efficient cars.
And now, not in 2010.
Of course Japan would never give money to their wealthy auto industry. Or would they?http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/08/04/with-these-prices-hybrids-will-only-be-elite-cars/
Don’t forget the less than one percent loans from their banks.
I’m tired of GM hinting for government handouts. They should responsible for funding their own innovation. Can’t do it? Too bad! Capitalism is a two way street. Is government funding going to make a new Chevy Volt sell for under $20K? I don’t think so.
If things don’t change in the Auto industry we won’t have to worry about 2010 for the General. Just getting through 2009 will be a herculean task.
You can promise for future delivery a cult or specialty car to a small rabid band of followers like a camaro, and challenger. You cannot howwever, ask the larger general public to hold off buying a car until you are ready to sell it to them, and then at a price they are unwilling to pay ($40,000+).
It is this last reason they are hinting at govt. help. The Volt was supposed to be $30,000 and go head to head with the new prius. At 25% more, GM needs the govt to make up this 10K out of tax revenues.
Heres another one, remember the all hydrogen car? GM was to build that one too, however, without someone (govt. again) to figure out how to fuel these things, how can GM sell them? And then there are the industrious Japanese fiddling around with imperfect hy-brids and making them a little better every year while they actually sell hundreds of thousands. The Prius will be in it’s second generation before GM get’s out of the blocks, and for 10K less, even if it’s a little less technically advanced, it will have a solid track record of performance, reliability and a resale value higher than a new one.
Once again, while GM is getting it right the floating crap game has moved on. At some point the catch up will just be outran by the bankrupcy courts.
“As opposed to regular cars which you can just kind of slap together?”
That’s funny, right there.
I’m confused by all the “versions” of electric powered vehicles.
We have the hybrid where both an ICE and an electric motor drive the wheels directly. ie: Prius and Civics.
We have the light hybrids where the ICE gets a small boost from an electric motor but saves very little fuel. ie: Ford Explorers and Lexus.
We may soon have plug in hybrids that can go much farther on their electric charge before their ICE has to go to work. ie: future Prius and Volt.
We have electric motor only. ie: Tesla
What are VW, Mitsubishi, and BMW working on in this area (mentioned in a previous TTAC News blog)?
Are there any other variations?
If I have to pay for a portion of their development cost for the Volt I want to see a portion of the profits, funny how that gets forgotten by the Big 2.8. Or o they now think they are doing charity work and are a nonprofit, ok right now they are a nonprofit but not my choice, just because they suck at what they do.
Unlike GM I know how to learn from history and the last multibillion dollar investment the general public put into those clowns didn’t reap a thing, the money just vanished. I think the money would be better spent going to startups and individuals struggling to make break throughs in their garage on shoe string budgets. This corperate welfare has got to stop. They wasted their money on who knows what and weren’t responsible, sorry but that’s not my concern, you made your bed.
Redbarchetta : HEAR! HEAR!
We the taxpayers already funded two “partnership” development programs with Detroit out of which no cars were produced.
@folkdancer
Here’s something worth looking at – if you’re considering alternatives.
Formula-1 developer Guy Negre used MDI’s money to come up with the air powered car.
Six seater, 125 mile range, 68mph speed.
They are launching their version of electric on the frame as they await approval of the air powered one.
http://www.theaircar.com/acf/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4217016.html
How about customers? Who wants to take a chance on this shit? They are really making some sales assumptions. I’m not interested in one, there will be no guilty jealous feelings from me at red lights in the off chance these things make it to market
Here’s a thought…what if gas is $2.50 a gallon (in today’s dollars) in 2014 when the Volt is actually available on the mass market to real paying customers? I’m speculating on that year, but obviously the 2010/2011 time frame means very limited production and sales numbers. And if they’re worried about the warranty issues, they’ll keep production volumes down. One only has to look at GM’s history…
GM has a propensity for terrible timing. It is likely they will throw all their resources at this moonshot and then by the time it is really ready for the public, the demand will be where it seems to be now…competent, well built, durable, efficient gas-powered mainstream cars.
The begging for money schtick makes me sick.
Every President since The Raygun has had some kooky initiative to “transform” our auto industry, – usually involving handing checks out to the den of thieves – to develop some True Communism-mobile that would burn grape-nuts and exhaust Perrier.
It would be an interesting compilation to add up all the realized gains, either direct checks or indirect tax-breaks, amassed by the domestics over the past ten years. All that fat was reaped with the idea of the Car of the Future being the goal.
The result? Hummer. Oh, and some mis-placed chauvinistic laughing at hybrids sold by the Japanese. Anytime you see a Detroit suit laugh or dismiss something new from a a foreign automaker that seems quirky, buy stock in said foreign automaker because that quirk is going to be a hit in the marketplace.
Or… plan to take a bath on warranties six or seven years in?
That’s an entirely reasonable product development plan. Get out something now that will work now for five years, and in four years replace those parts on your first sales, using what you’ve learned in the meantime to make sure that the part will work for ten years on new sales. It’s all about building a market.
Of course, GM doesn’t have big pockets to fall back on for this, so . . .
Author: Stein X LeikangerComment:@folkdancer Here’s something worth looking at – if you’re considering alternatives.Formula-1 developer Guy Negre used MDI’s money to come up with the air powered car.Six seater, 125 mile range, 68mph speed. http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4217016.html
Thank You! Fun reading about the air powered car. Who knows if it is practical over all but it is wonderful to take note of people who are thinking.
Parts to work for 10 years. Manufacturers have grown up in a throw away world where anything that lasts a long time is viewed with suspicion. The “we’ve had that for five years – time to change it” brigade do not expect to keep a vehicle for more than a couple of years