Chrysler unveiled some primo bailout bait today: three electric vehicles (EVs). Choosing CNBC as point man, ChryCo’s CEO showed-off a fully electric Dodge sports car and a Jeep and minivan hybrid. While the press has been suitably impressed, pistonheads who’ve been following (and following and following) the hoopla surrounding GM’s plug-in electric – gas hybrid Chevrolet Volt are settling-in for the long haul. Meanwhile, we must endure Auburn Hill’s spin on the whole “future vehicles” thing. Or do we? Here’s Chrysler press release…
Looking beyond hybrids…that was the mission of ENVI.
And here I thought the mission was to convince the government that Chrysler is worthy of a federal bail out. That’s why they unveiled the cars on CNBC – they are pitching Chrysler LLC to the business community as a suitable investment.
Revealed today are three electric-drive vehicles, one of which will go on sale in 2010.
One? So two-thirds of this dog and pony show is, to quote GM’s Bob Lutz, “a crock of shit?” Well, no surprise there. So which one will it be? The Jeep is no deal, right off the bat. Too low volume, doesn’t fit with brand image. So will Chrysler do it smart and build the minivan, or try to build the sports car for rich people already on the wait list for a nearly identical Tesla?
The prototypes give a glimpse of the very near future. Chrysler intends to bring advanced, electric-drive vehicles to market quickly,
They are coming very soon, do you hear us? This is not a pipe dream like that Chevy Volt, which is set to come to market in 2010 as a 2011 model. Ours are going on sale in – what did we say above? Oh, 2010 also. Nevermind.
A fleet of more than 100 Chrysler electric vehicles will be on the road in government, business and Chrysler development fleets next year.
What we’re going to do is make nice with the government (probably Santa Monica parking enforcement), then try to sell our investors by letting them drive these cars around as toys for a few months.
The Dodge EV has three primary components: a 200 kW (268 horsepower) electric motor, an advanced lithium-ion battery and an integrated power controller. The 200 kW electric-drive motor produces 480 lb.-ft. of torque, accelerating the vehicle from zero to 60 mph in less than five seconds, with a top speed of more than 120 mph.
This all sounds very familiar. Where did I hear it before? Oh right, Tesla’s website.
The Dodge EV has a range of 150 miles between recharges – more than tripe the average daily commute. To recharge the vehicle, simply plug it into a standard 110-volt household outlet. Or the recharge time can be cut in half by using a typical 220-volt household appliance power outlet.
All subject to change when we switch our design software to CAD from the current NapkinSharpieSoft. Also noteworthy: the idealistic claimed 150 mile range is less that Tesla’s idealistic claimed 244 mile range. Who is making the batteries? Who is dealing with the transmission issue that Tesla – and even partner BorgWarner – had so much trouble with? Would the car be assembled in the US or by Lotus in England?
The Jeep EV is a range-extended electric vehicle that couples the electric motor and the lithium-ion battery system with a small gasoline engine and an integrated electric generator to produce added energy. The Jeep EV has a range of 40 miles of zero-emissions, all-electric operation – no gas necessary. But for longer trips of up to 400 miles, the small gasoline engine produces energy to power the electric-drive system.
Now, since we’re done knocking off Tesla, we’ll move on to knock off the Volt. Don’t worry though. There isn’t a Snickers’ chance in Britney’s kitchen this thing will make it to production.
Since nearly 80 percent of Americans drive less than 40 miles per day, or 14,000 miles per year,
Yes, we all read the same press release from the same study, then heard Bob Lutz drop it into conversation like he thought it up in the shower. You know why people use medians instead of averages? Because averages suck.
The instant high torque and the ability to control each wheel independently results in the off-road capability consumers expect from Jeep.
Sending power to each wheel does sound very cool for off roading. So did the Jeep Rescue Concept. And the Jeep Gladiator Concept. And the Jeep JT pickup. And the Jeep Dakar concept.
The seven-passenger Chrysler EV is, like the Jeep EV, a range-extended electric vehicle that puts electric-drive technology in the segment-leading Chrysler Town & Country minivan.
Segment leading it what way? More Swivel ‘N Go than the Sienna? Leading in fleet sales?
The Chrysler EV can drive 40 miles on all-electric power, or 400 miles with the help of an integrated small displacement engine and generator. The Chrysler EV uses a 255 horsepower motor, producing 258 lb.-ft. of torque, providing zero to 60 mph acceleration in about nine seconds.
It’s a minivan. Meaning you’re supposed to fill it up with kids and hockey bags and other wholesome junk. What’s the range when there’s 1000 lbs of American goodness inside?
And so on. There’s but one takeaway here: there’s nothing to take away. Not now, and not before Chrysler is forced to face the music. Do you know it’s vaporware? No, but if you hum a few bars I can fake it.
Another refrain, fellows: “There’ll be pie in the sky, by and by!”
“probably Santa Monica parking enforcement” Exactly. But then, there are electric golf carts already on the market that can do this work very well.
More than tripe, indeed.
So, is Ford going to come out with some smoke and mirrors HEVs? If not, aren’t they demonstrating their lack of commitment to the (lobbying) environment?
At what point did American business so completely jump the shark to the point THEY know they’re full of shit, WE know they’re full of shit, THEY KNOW we know they’re full of shit, and yet they still go on spouting the aforementioned oral excrement? As if the investment community, car buyers, the mainstream automotive press, and legislature are complete morons. Oh, wait…I think I just answered my own question.
50merc
They already exist and are made by
Chrysler
http://www.media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?id=8225&mid=1
So much vapor!
It’s as though they’re throwing the “Hail Mary” and hoping, somehow, someway there will be a leap forward in battery technology in time to save their bacon.
If I’m going to buy a completely new technology for moving my car I can’t see buying it from a totally messed-up company with one foot in the grave.
If they’d trotted this out 5 years ago? Hmmmm…. maybe….
So which model gets the moniker Chrysler Potemkin?
Cicero: Hah! Too bad Daihatsu already took Charade. How about the Chrysler Travesty?
More vapor here than the local compassion center.
I’m glad this site keeps it honest (even though I sometimes disagree). Every press release I read is blowing this way out of proportion. Like there is some revolution going on at Chrysler. I’m glad to hear TTAC sees this the way I do.
1) One of the cars looks like and specs are just like Tesla. Hmmm… you think they might be talking to Tesla? Gee. Lets think about that. Tesla in dire situation. Could use an injection of cash. Chrysler could use envrio-look so buy Teslas, rebody them a bit, and there you have it.
2) 40 miles on a charge then 200-400 miles with gasoline. Do we have a winner? Yes! Its the EFlex powertrain. Do I think they’ll get a re-badged Volt? no way in hell. Do I think Chrysler and GM might be talking about Chrysler licensing the technology or possibly buying drivetrains from GM? Hell yeah.
3) I know people. People who work at Chrysler. People who used to work at Chrysler who know people who work at Chrysler. There’s no development going on. Unless its double-secret development and only 2 people at Chrysler know about it or have ever seen the prototypes.
I often feel the GM bashing here sometimes gets out of hand. I gotta agree with TTAC about Chrysler. This thing is a royal mess, and whereas GM can be slammed for over-hyping cars still a good year or two away, at least there are real cars, with real development, with real mules, with production versions, etc. With Chrysler, there is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Period.
Chrysler is done. Watch the scramble to buy the super-awesome (it seriously is) tech center for pennies. Otherwise everything else going to the scrap heap.
Now that the Detroit three can’t build cars incrementally anymore, we are in for moon shots. As a kid, the buck rodgers rocket that could land like a helicopter and still go interplanetary looked great. Now we have the electric cars. Chrysler has owned and fooled around with electric vehicles (4 place golf carts) under the name of GEM. On flat terrain, they can do urban commuting and work in golf communities. The small plastic bodies weigh several hundred pounds and are open to the elements. How this technology (golf carts level 200) will transfer to the real world, I give up. As for pushing real cars up real hills with real loads, the gas motor will still have to be bolted on to the vehicle. Further, high speeds and hills drain electric like gas in a regular car. The big problem is that the regular car refuels in five minutes anywhere.
Why is it that the big 2.8 thinks they can just wave a magic want and “poof!”: electric cars? This takes years of planning and long term foresight that none of them has been working on until recently.
It just feels like they’re riding the latest wave instead of taking any kind of leadership role in the marketplace. It’s sad.
Who is dealing with the transmission issue that Tesla – and even partner BorgWarner – had so much trouble with?
Well if they’ve been to school on Tesla, it’s unlikely you will find this outfit trying to get away with an undersized motor !
On the battery front, since neither Cerberus nor Tesla make Li-ion cells success will depend on the robustness of their packaging and monitoring.
For market watchers it’s in production that we could see fall-out. To stay in the game Tesla has to speed up its production rate. Right now it has a limited number of early adopters, lined up and waiting, like a row of power pellets, vulnerable to PacMan (that would be Cerberus) who could be about to come munching down that path. The result. No more Tesla !
If that hasn’t killed my credibility, personally I would not even try that market. The most obvious untapped market is for the EV1. It occurred to me that Cerberus might shoot lower and fit a 100Kw motor rather than a 200Kw. Accel down to 8 secs and over 100 mile range. This time the PHEV rebate will take the sting out of the smaller battery cost. If Cerberus still around for warrantee, an end of life Lead-acid retrofit for $2000 would keep the vehicle functional and help maintain residuals.
T2
Forget the shark, time to nuke the fridge! If only these new EVs were on a Delorean platform…sweet!
I’d buy an electric DeLorean. That would be supersweet.
Don’t forget that the Flux Capacitor needs a 1.21 gigawatt recharge. And stay below 88 mph…
As we watch the $50 billion Detroit brush fire, our $700 billion financial house is burning out of control, and the most interesting part of this publicity event was the electric wheel drive system on the Jeep. Thinking outside the box, this could really revolutionize the automobile: You could build a vehicle with no transmission, no brakes, no steering rack, etc. Lots of weight savings and a real opportunity to change the form factor of transportation. See, some good can come out of this…
Wow. No really. GM takes 3 years and still no volt but chryco does it overnight? Oh, thats right, they have more cash than toyota and have been secretly laboring at the Auburn Hills skunkworks around the clock since 05. Shameless these people in Detroit…
Let’s take a pill folks! If Chrysler isn’t in the green “enviro” game, they’re pilloried for being johnny-come-lately’s. I’d be less impressed if they didn’t have anything at all in the pipeline to share, or were still months or years away from having anything substantive to show, or worse, simply leaching off some one else’s design. Oh, and the NBC platform for the unveiling? How do you spell “leveraging the G.E. connection?” Despite all the bad Press (pun intended) and the persistent “strip and flip” musings, it’s definitely in Chrysler’s best interests to be, and be perceived as, a relevant player in marketplace. Talk of potential bail-outs aside, who in their right minds really believes that Chrysler has a defined strategy for screwing up on purpose? Too much money at stake. Too much professional pride at stake. Too much capital associated with the brand at stake to simply piss it all away…..Can’t wait to see the day where Chrysler can get out of its own way long enough to demonstrate the foresight, savvy, business acumen, and a return to its vaunted styling heritage to become relevant again. Then perhaps the highway carnage gawkers will focus on other deserving targets; let’s say the continuing implosion of the Toronto Maple Leafs, or the human tragi-comedy of the overpaid, underfed, socialites that provide such consistent tabloid fodder.
Here is where I think TTAC is overplaying this.
#1 – Chrysler already owns an electric car company that puts out one of the best low-speed electric vehicles on the market.
#2 – Chrysler displayed it’s ENVI concept vehicles a year ago.
I’m not saying that Chrysler is not trying to play up the publicity to try to gain federal $$. But I am saying that maybe Chrysler is closer to pulling this off than you think. GM basically started from scratch. Chrysler had a company with practical EV infrastructure already in place.
Just saying.
Don’t forget this site predicted that Chrysler would go chapter 11 back in July when everyone was on vacation. Still waiting for that one, maybe next July.
NapkinSharpieSoft, priceless!
@ Jerome10:
“1) One of the cars looks like and specs are just like Tesla. Hmmm… you think they might be talking to Tesla? Gee. Lets think about that. Tesla in dire situation. Could use an injection of cash. Chrysler could use envrio-look so buy Teslas, rebody them a bit, and there you have it.”
I think you’re right, I just wonder how many of the 20 vehicles Tesla produces a year will Chrysler be allowed to rebody?
They’re private. They CAN do things a public company can’t. They do have some experience with electric powertrains, so maybe…not likely, but maybe they have something.
I have to say I’m just saddened, though, at the tone of people who are literally rooting for the US auto mfrs to go under.
Uh, did anyone get (bother) to look under the hood?
Is this real or more vaporware? Maybe I missed it, but none of the press releases gives a pic of a real system, just graphics. I’d be curious to know how much of a production intent prototype these are.
C’mon Chrysler!!! Don’t know how realistic your press release was but I would really like to see a bunch of EVs running around built by you. A hybrid minivan? Excellent. Better yet if it is a plug-in minivan. Would be the first.
Build them right the first time b/c as it is I have never wanted to own your products. That is the normal average guy products, your muscle cars and trucks might be great – I don’t know – I have the budget of a mere mortal! Don’t (won’t) buy vehicles that cost $40K and get 14 mpg and last 100K miles.
I’m really pulling for the companies that dare to bring normal, real, right-sized vehicles to the market that will eliminate gasoline from the average commute or running the kids to baseball practice or Cub Scouts.
These are the kinds of products that promise American car companies are still relevant. Now prove it by completing the task!
Hope there are a few of us that can afford your products in 2010…
Aren’t A123 battery systems supplying the batteries?
Concept cars and press releases don’t prove anything Detroit – let’s talk about what you sell TODAY. That’s what is real and what is important.
Looking at some of the pictures at other websites, I can’t shake the feeling that this really is vaporware and that Chrysler has simply bolted on fake panels that appear to measure battery life and put some equipment under the hood that looks like some kind of hybrid drivetrain.
Chrysler was not even able to design their own tin for Dodge Ev, so they had to grab a Lotus and repaint it. How pathetic! Of course it is simpler to build a concept vehicle, for it would cost around 2-3 million, while setting a production vehicle would cost around 1-2 billions. Ahh, and by the way it would demand real, tangible engineering input. Something ,that is a taboo in US of A.
Juniper :
They already exist and are made by
Chrysler
http://www.media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?id=8225&mid=1
These things look like the little brother of the smart car. Good catch Juniper
Boy, was I pounced on at engadget for not imbibing the green koolaid! My comments are a little ways down. Yikes, the outlook some people have..
http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/24/chrysler-jeep-and-dodge-electric-vehicle-plans-get-outed/
Been enjoying the site for a long time RF, first time posting. Keep it up, you guys do an awesome job. :)
The Detroit News article suggests that members of the press were permitted test drives:
“In test drives, the electric Wrangler and Dodge sports car, which still lacks a name, accelerated quickly and were silent on the road. The second-generation prototypes performed flawlessly.”
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080924/AUTO01/809240383/1148
Your continuous negative attitude is tiring.
you wrote:
You know why people use medians instead of averages? Because averages suck.
in response to:
Since nearly 80 percent of Americans drive less than 40 miles per day, or 14,000 miles per year,
You’re right averages do suck. That’s why he didn’t use any. A percentage is not an average. 40 miles per day is an actual hard number, not an average.
I realize this is all just PR smoke and mirrors, but if they’re seriously looking for a hybrid product to green-up their image, why not just go the Nissan Altima Hybrid route and license Toyota’s Synergy Drive and cram it into the Avenger? Surely that would be cheaper than half-assing some ridiculous Volt knock-off.
Bowler300 : I’d love to know what ass they pull that figure out of. I never heard it before Lutz made it up on the pot when they dropped the Volt’s expected range to 40 miles.
@ MLS:
I don’t know. I read that article and I didn’t come away with the impression that any press members had been in these cars. In fact its quite odd that they end the article with that line,
“In test drives, the electric Wrangler and Dodge sports car, which still lacks a name, accelerated quickly and were silent on the road. The second-generation prototypes performed flawlessly.”
It is right after a quote from Frank Klegon, and doesn’t provide any context for who conducted the test drives. I call shenanigans. This is a thinly disguised quote from Chrysler management.
If someone from the press had actually driven one of these cars, the title of the article would be, ‘First drive, Chrysler electric vehicles perform flawlessly’ or more likely, ‘First drive, Chrysler falls flat in attempt to show off green tech’
Agreed, it was odd how the “test drive” lines were just thrown in at the end of the Detroit News article. If, as you suggest, they’re just quoting Chrysler management (without actually quoting anyone), the Detroit News has reached a new low.
I thought I was reading a GM press release on the Volt for a minute.
Seriously, who is going to take a chance on a Cry-sler EV? Just like with the Volt, does anyone think they can make a reliable EV like Toyota or Honda?
There isn’t a Snickers’ chance in Britney’s kitchen this thing will make it to production.
That’s just too funny.