TTAC has previously reported deep concerns about the GT-R’s ‘Ring recond. Australian Herald Sun automotive journalist Paul Gover reports that Porsche was sehr unglücklich with Nissan’s claims that its GT-R is faster around The Green Hell than Stuttgart’s mean machines. To test its suspicions, Porsche bought a GT-R in the U.S., flew it to the ‘Ring and ran its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese supercar. Porsche’s expert ‘Ring runner couldn’t get within 25 seconds of Nissan’s claimed record. Porsche also “discovered” that its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both faster around the legendary German circuit than the bonkers Nissan. “This [GT-R] wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car,” proclaims August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche. “For us, it’s not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres.” Achleitner’s mob clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds; the 911 Turbo managed 7:38 and the GT2 lapped the track in 7:34. “The Nissan is a good car. I don’t want to make anything bad with my words,” he says. “It’s a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo… This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it.”
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Remember some years back when Road&Track assembled the world’s fastest cars and did a monster shootout? They published a stand-alone magazine just for this spectacle.
We need another monster shootout. This time it’s for the ‘Ring crown. All production cars are invited. I’m talking GT-R, 911 GT2, ZR1, Enzo, Veyron, and whatever else as long as it’s running 100% stock.
On another note, maybe a trained GT-R driver can muscle that car around the ‘Ring faster. It sounds like you need to learn to work that car in order to make full use of its all wheel drive and electronics. Like in amateur racing – you have the front wheel drive line around the racetrack and you have the rear drive line. If you’ve been racing Hondas for ten years on track, you can’t just jump into a Vette and expect to set a lap record. There’s a learning curve.
The CTS-V did 7:59. Could it really almost match a two-seater made solely for racing?
“What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres”
If different tires and some software changes are required to equal Porsche, then the GT-R still succeeds
highrpm –
On another note, maybe a trained GT-R driver can muscle that car around the ‘Ring faster. It sounds like you need to learn to work that car in order to make full use of its all wheel drive and electronics.
Yeah, but 25 seconds? Porche has some pretty talented test drivers, and they make a fair number of AWD cars (isn’t the turbo AWD?). Carrara 4S, anyway.
I believe Porche. I think Nissan cheated.
A few magazine tests have the GT-R, which came out on top over Porsches. Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Best Motoring. also I think Top Gear and some other european mag/shows were faster with the GT-R.
Is it possible that the US Spec GTR had something to do with it? I always thought those are de-tuned to meet emmissions, gas blend, and other insurance mambo jambo
Two things. One, I wonder what took so long for this complaining to come out, and two, are they complaining about the Corvette C6 ZR1 and/or Viper ACR?
Please, if Porsche wants to prove anything, they need bring in a neutral third party. Do ya think Porsche wanted the Nissan to be faster?
Let’s identify what “Production” means here.
It means “like it rolls off the showroom floor.”
So quit bolstering a ringer. I’d welcome a shootout where the two left standing tall are GM cars. A 4 dr luxo car and a Vette. Both under $80,000.
The car I saw in the video was a right hand drive GT-R. Since when is RHD U.S. spec?
Why do we allow the Asians so much wallow room here?
On another note, maybe a trained GT-R driver can muscle that car around the ‘Ring faster.
Not 25 seconds faster.
The CTS-V did 7:59. Could it really almost match a two-seater made solely for racing?
Maybe, but that’s a good question.
If different tires and some software changes are required to equal Porsche, then the GT-R still succeeds
The number contested is for a production machine – stock as delivered from the factory. Take the Porsche and change tires and software and see what happens.
One, I wonder what took so long for this complaining to come out,…
Maybe Porsche wanted to be careful and confirm numbers rather than just cry foul.
…and two, are they complaining about the Corvette C6 ZR1 and/or Viper ACR?
If the times are legitimate, they won’t complain – they’ll just try to go faster.
I said this on Autoblog and I’ll say it here:
I am leaning towards the fact that the GT-R did do the deed as independent test (Best Motoring, C/D, R/T, Top Gear, Autocar, etc…) have tested the GT-R against the 911 on numerous occasions on different tracks all with the same result, the GT-R besting the 997.
Sour. Grapes.
Sour. Grapes.
That’s what I’m assuming here. They just got beat by a Japanese wunderkid. Then again, I’d take the 911 Turbo on the basis of it having a proper stick shift and clutch pedal as an option… I’m just sayin’…
I wonder what tires were on the Nissan? The linked article states that the P-cars were on Pilot Sport Cups which are R-compound tires. If the Nissan was on regular street tires this test would not be fair regardless of the “production version” caveat.
Hmm, who do I believe??
(Numerous) Third parties? Or the auto manufacturer with its own interest in mind.
Hey Porsche: The people who buy your cars, want your cars. Get it? Your customer base is not going to think, “I want a Porsche, but hey(!), that GT-R is a good value. I may just go with the GT-R.” No they want a 911, they are going to get a 911, and all the GT-Rs in the world are not going to deter them. So stop bitching. For a company with your stature, it’s sad.
I personally want a GT-R, and all the 911s in the world will not deter me. See what I mean?
I personally am inclined to go with the GT-R. The difference between RHD/LHD models is all down to electronics and such that have nothing to do with the engine or AWD system, so production spec is production spec.
They can bring in a neutral party if they want that claimed verified but as it stands, the GT-R (much as I hate to admit its claimed 480hp is real) is the King.
Put Sabine Schmitz in both cars and let her settle the dispute!
magazine racing is retarded
but if you want to magazine race, check out this month’s road and track
The Ultimate Track Test
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6939
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0908_cvr_finaltally.pdf
Moot point on the GT-R. The C6 ZR1 has already posted a confirmed 7:26.4 lap time. Production form with the exception of some safety gear. A performance modified Viper posted a 7:22. I’m sure the GT-R is a fine car but give me a 911 at that price. Better history, looks and drivability.
RF:
That would be “sehr unglücklich”…
Here’s what I’d like to see. Which car is the quickest around the ‘Ring with a non-professional driver – someone with some experience an training, of course, but not a “professional”.
That along with the professional results would tell me a lot about the cars.
All Porsche had to do was put that question mark in people’s minds. They’ve done that. They’ve now effectively put the crown back on their head unless if Nissan comes back – again – to prove them wrong.
Once upon a time Nissan needed two additional cylinders, an addtional turbo, pulse 50 more HP for the 300zx TT to be able to simply play with a 944 TurboS. OK, the 944 TurboS would have cost you an extra $10,000 but with less Porsche was able to give more.
Porsche has been sitting on its a$$ of lately enjoying little to no competition in the upper-end sportscar market ($50,000 to $100,000). For about tht last 15 years outside of the Corvette and M3 there hasn’t been many challangers to the 911’s level of performance. Until the latest model hits the street the base 911 has seen a total increase in HP of only about 40hp in the last ten years. Porsche has also lagged behind in getting a proper dual-cutch auto-shifting gearbox to market, ironic since this is something they invented IIRC.
For the “most profitable car company” IMO Porsche has not done much of lately other than play around with mounting the engine in front or behind the rear axle in what I understand in the same platform. They are also simply playing around with engine displacement between the Boxster/ Cayman and the 911 to get different levels of power. Not too long ago Porsche was able to squeeze a good 10 to 15%+ hp out of the same engine displacement as everyone else.
The Cayenne is really nothing more than a VW toureg with a few tweaks.
Unless you are a non-objective Porsche fan-boy can you really be suprised that Nissan is capable of building a car that can actually put down some numbers that has made Porsche blink. IMHO Porsche, with its current lineup is an easy target to hit. You have a Boxster and Cayman that are being held back as to not outshine the cash-cow 911 and a 911 that has reached its rear-engine peak. While Porsche has been concentrating on its sedan project it has left its sportscars wide open to be surpassed in terms of performance.
Nissan did their Homework on the GT-R project. Just like Porsche in 1984 with the 959 Nissan set out to build a technical tour de force and succeeded, plain and simple!
Rather than posting some silly rigged test results maybe Porsche should re-adjust it focus back to the performance enthusiaist and away from the Boutique Poser Crowd that are buying up those autobox equiped boxsters I see all over NYC.
They’ve now effectively put the crown back on their head…
Actually, that crown resides with GM. As pointed out previously, both the Prosche and Nissan were bested by a Corvette around the Ring.
whatdoIknow1 –
Unless you are a non-objective Porsche fan-boy can you really be suprised that Nissan is capable of building a car that can actually put down some numbers that has made Porsche blink.
I’m far from a Porche fan-boy. I think they’re purchased exclusively by douchebags (no offense RF), but the you’ve got to admit the numbers smell pretty fishy. 7:29 is stupidly fast. A ~450 HP Nissan GTR essentially ties a ~640 HP Corvette ZR1? Beats an equally powerful and lighter 911 turbo?
I just don’t think that’s a reasonable claim unless it’s on racing tires, which would be cheating.
I think for the production GTR on street tires, 7:54 sounds a lot closer to the mark.
With respect to Porsche’s claim, I find it interesting that both Top Gear and Fifth Gear (Bruno Senna driving on a wet track) found the GT-R faster than the 911 Turbo.
Rather than posting some silly rigged test results maybe Porsche should re-adjust it focus back to the performance enthusiaist and away from the Boutique Poser Crowd that are buying up those autobox equiped boxsters I see all over NYC.
The GT2, GT3 and GT3RS are all strong indications that Porsche has not lost its focus on the performance enthusiast. If you include the Turbo, that is essentially 4 supercars from one company.
There is no reason why they shouldn’t sell autobox Boxsters and Cayennes if they can make money from them. If those cars allow them to keep funding their customer RSR program, Cup Cars, and ALMS prototypes then so be it.
How can I put this…
A ZR-1 Vette will whip both GT-R and 911 asses for equal or less money. And it has the wonderful sounding American V8.
So screw them.
@sean362880 :
It’s been well documented time and again that the GT-R is making MORE than the claimed 480bhp. By most estimates the car is closer to 520bhp at least.
@Stingray:
Has someone done a proper track test of that yet? We know it’ll be quick, but what makes you think it will handle well enough? Didn’t they make it somewhat softer than the Z06 after the nonstop complaints about ride quality.
I want the Stig to do the test – then it’s fair. And no one BUT the Stig.
Stingray> I thought the ZR1 was going to be like $110 G’s, and the gt-r is like…$75 G’s?
Stingray> I thought the ZR1 was going to be like $110 G’s, and the gt-r is like…$75 G’s?
Good luck find a GT-R at that price.
CarShark and Robstar
You two may be right… and I may be wrong.
My point is that I don’t care a shit anymore about the GT-R test in the Nürburgring because after all I’ve read I concluded the results are bullshit.
The car looks cool, the GPS Big Brother BS is definitely NOT cool, and it has 480HP, AWD, blah blah blah… it’s a great bang for the buck and sports car. Why they cheated, given they had a great product in hands? Good question.
I saw the ZR-1 video and was scary. But I bet an even better pilot may have done a bit better. Just my 2 cents on this. I didn’t see the GT-R, but this time, I’ll see the one Mr. Farago posted.
About Porsche… it took them too long to cry foul (3-4 months), given all the internet blood that flowed since the test.
to be fair Sport-Auto called nissan on it already.
http://www.sportauto-online.de/test_U_technik/fahrberichte/hxcms_article_508540_14469.hbs
right at the bottom. Sport auto could only manage a 7:50 lap.
“You have a Boxster and Cayman that are being held back as to not outshine the cash-cow 911 and a 911 that has reached its rear-engine peak. ”
how many times has someone said this about the 911 only to have the next gen faster and better?
I can see it now:
Nissan GT-R, Patriot Act Special Edition…
How about we do something really interesting like set up a real production car race series, set some rules to keep it from becoming a huge spending contest, and let them go at it every sunday.
Who knows, maybe they will sell some cars on mondays.
Most modern racing is lame anyway. This would be much more interesting.
“I’m sure the GT-R is a fine car but give me a 911 at that price. Better history, looks and drivability.”
Thank you for proving the point I made earlier.
Also, for all the, “Gee-Whiz & Bling,” the ZR-1 is a freaking over-wrought toy. Not a car. And for the record, that see through plastic panel on the hood is as retarded as the day is long.
Last Tuesday we took a 911 GT2 (supplied by Porsche) and a Nissan GT-R (a customer car imported from Japan) and joined the RMA track day at the ‘ring.
Chris Harris was the driver and he drove each car for three laps (one out lap, and two flying laps). Naturally we recorded the laps on video and recorded the lap and section times on Racelogic telemetry.
We are busy finishing the video and will shortly publish the feature story and full results.
This is as close as you’ll probably get to an independent and unbiased validation of their respective ‘claimed’ lap times so it will be interesting to see how this conversation goes after the results are published.