I prefer to buy my shopping from a company in the UK called "The Co-op." It's an ethical supermarket, which invests its profits into schemes which benefit society (says them). This got me thinking, would you NOT buy a car from a company for moral reasons? Henry Ford I was a raging anti-Semite, Toyota overwork their staff, Nissan are bullying a small company to relinquish www.nissan.com (despite Nissan computers traded as "Nissan" back when Nissan was Datsun) and Volkswagen was borne of a brutal dictatorship. Maybe you can't bear the thought of your money going to GM to fund their outrageous executive pay schemes? Or maybe there's a company who you LIKE to buy from because they support a cause you like? Do morals or some other personal belief come into your car buying habits?
I could see not buying from a company for moral reasons.
If X company used slave labor, for instance. By slave labor I mean slave labor, not just paying them a small hourly rate cause that’s what constitutes a days wage in that country.
But on the whole no. It’s like with authors; if you stop reading them because they are racist, crazy, abusive, fascist, communist, or some other variety of Grade A asshole, you’re library would be limited to Dick and Jane books.
I will not buy a Toyota or recommend the purchase of one due to the way they treat their employees. After months of working with them during the Subaru tieup for Camry production, I could not stomach purchasing a Toyota product.
Now that I have moved on to a non-auto industry, I am glad that I am on the outside looking in rather than worrying about mergers and plant closings on the inside.
What about Honda? Is Honda Good? I think Suzuki might be, too….
But every company has got some root of evil. The irony is that it’s the granola-progressive crowd that tends to have love-affairs with these evil companies.
Volkswagen- admired by the hip-pie/ster crowd is actually a large faceless German corporation that uses Mexican slave labor. BMW used Jews as fuel for their plants in WWII (come to think of it, is there anything German that isn’t rooted in evil?) Subaru bombed Pearl Harbor, and given that Toyota is Japanese, I’m pretty sure they’re tied in with it too.
This can be looked in in so many ways. Look at the group of Christians (the American Family Association) who bycotted Ford due to Ford sending tons of money and support to pro-homosexual causes, basically siding with homosexuals to try to alter all of the culture and marginalize mainstream Christian belief in the process. Ford reniged on the gay brigades, at the behest of (mostly) the Texas Ford Dealer association which feared (and were finding as fact) that lots of macho guys would not buy Ford pickups (3/4 of the Texas market) but “might” consider a Toyota (new Texas factory and all). Then Ford did a political move and back-pedalled, decided to heck with the Texas dealers, and to hell with the AFA – they’d do it their way.
Two years later (and a after huge slide in vehicle sales over the entire time) Ford have quietly backed away from sending money to pro homosexual anti-family organizations and the AFA removed their boycott. The AFA had some 1/2 million signatories on this boycott, BTW. I even signed, but never intended to buy a Ford. So yeah, I guess I did “boycott” a company for pushing beliefs that I don’t share.
Now the AFA are boycotting McDonalds for the self same reason.
As for me, well, I should have boycotted Ford after buying a new 1975 Ford Pinto at age 18, but I didn’t figure out what krapolla they sold until I finally dumped a 1990 Lincoln Town Car in 1997, after it just about drove me to drink.
So there are so many ways anyone can parse out things to boycott this or that.
The way I see it, unless you plan on leaving planet earth and all of humanity behind, you have to deal with imperfect human beings who have evil and good within them in varying quantities, as do the entities that mankind make, commonly known as companies, businesses and corporations.
I choose my cars on whether they serve me well, whether the dealer will likely serve me well, and whether the price is fair in my mind. Other than the one boycott, I’ve not done anything else similar, and as noted, I’d already stopped buying Fords anyway.
I despise China for a lot of reasons (the way they treat animals, the way they treat people, being the world’s worst environmental citizen, their flouting of copyright and patent laws) and try to buy as little as possible that is produced there (which is getting pretty damned hard). I wished to hell everyone else would do the same to bring them into line. I never buy a car built there or built somewhere else by a Chinese manufacturer. I hope no one else will either.
This is a great question. It’s one I have thought about but in the end I am not sure how to evaluate auto manufacturers from a moral point of view. So I bought the car I liked the best (Mercedes).
In the world of clothing I like Patagonia. But I don’t know if there is a car company like Patagonia.
Yeah…not in the way you’ve described exactly, more of an Atlas Shrugged inspiried reasoning. This is why I refuse to buy new cars. FWIW though, if I was forced to buy new, it’d be a Honda.
Henry Ford funded the Nazi party… I wonder how many Ford owners even know that, let alone would care about it. But the past is the past, obviously the Nazis don’t affect VW’s business practices anymore–OR DO THEY?!?! (cue incidental music…)
And the founder of Mazda started the company by making corks. Wuss.
What about Volvo?
Yamaha (I know, motorcycles, but close enough) started out making accordions. They still make a whole range of musical instruments – which are highly regarded.
I won’t buy a Ford b/c of it’s very questionable safety decisions – though many people forgave them b/c everyone else was doing it (ahem Pinto) or how does a company have internal failures of a cc device that bursts into flames but still continues to equip 16M cars with it for 10+ years!
I won’t buy a Toyota b/c of the underhanded tactics they take in racing and business – Toyota got banned from WRC and their unfair pressure on CART eventually lead to its demise (even when Toyota claimed all of Ganasty’s CART domination as their own [when in fact Honda was the engine provider during that time period]). Also the engine sludge issues with Toyota who wanted ULEV emissions but not redesigning oil passages or oil capacity on engines to account for higher temperature.
I won’t buy a Mitsubishi b/c of its business policies that led to a 3 decade long cover up of defects and recalls some – fatal!.
Nope the 3 of them have too much questionable past and unethical behavior in their pursuit of growth, profit, and success.
Personally, I don’t care. I don’t change my purchasing habits based on the “morals” of a company. E.g., I’m a gun nut yet I still buy Ben and Jerry’s ice cream because it’s my favorite. I’d rather them not support gun grabbing groups, but it still doesn’t keep me away from the tasty tasty ice cream.
Although, I’ll never begrudge anyone who does make purchases based on the morals of a company. In fact, that’s a much better way to get the changes you want than to lobby government to do it. The latest Subaru commercials talk about how the hippies like that their Subaru comes from a “zero landfill plant”. If Subaru wants to go through the trouble of creating a “zero landfill plant” (whatever that is), let them. Their market has said that’s important. If the government started mandating “zero landfill plants”, you’d see all kinds of crazy loopholes and increased administrative costs passed on to the consumer/taxpayer. See also, CAFE and how it didn’t do anything to raise mileage, but now that people want higher mileage the companies are (slowly) giving it to them.
The US and UK supported Hitler when he first came to power, Germany was a strong nation to separate them from the Commies. Will you now not buy anything American?
I believe Mitsubishi made plane engines for the Japanese during WW2, but if they made a good Eclipse (a la ’94 version) I would buy from them. I am not going to hold a grudge based on what you did in the past, what you are doing in the present is more important.
No mention of the longstanding refusal of many Jewish customers to buy German cars? This seems to be fading a bit these days, with the generational turnover and with the realization that all of the car companies are basically identical multinational conglomerates, not really tied to their national histories so firmly anymore. But I still remember being shocked, less than a decade ago, when my Holocaust-refugee grandmother bought herself a VW Passat, going back on what had seemed like a strong commitment.
I am stumped.
The big bad stuff is easy; slavery and such.
And we do the best we can everyday in choosing our relationships.
But…
Is there a moral company (country)?
If there was such an animal, is there one that has all moral people within it?
If there is one of these standing, does it have a totally pure history?
I can’t imagine such a possibility.
Given what is needed to survive in the business world, this is but an exercise in futility.
One’s morality is another’s job.
A loss of a job here is food for a table somewhere else.
And why can’t you be anti…without being immoral?
There is an inherent bloodiness to life and survival.
Hell friends, don’t look now, but something is dying for your dinner.
Life is like sausage.
Love it but hate seeing its beginning.
We might speak like creatures of good, but we compete and strive to overcome and destroy our competition.
I will work hard to take your job.
Sorry about your loss.
And those people in other companies we strive to beat in business and commerce competition…they all have lives and families.
Not sure what morality is in the world of business.
Can’t we all just get along…?
i might not buy a Hyundai/Kia because their CEO embezzled millions of dollars and got off with a slap on the wrist
then again, if they put him in prison i but S. Korea’s unemployment rate would probably skyrocket. Just a guess.
Then again, that’s a DUMB REASON NOT TO BUY A CAR. I mean holy crap. Buy a car because it’s a good car. This line of thinking is similar to stupid old people that don’t buy Japanese cars cause they bombed Pearl Harbor. Give me a f***ing break.
I may on ocassion make a choice based on the “morals” of a company or product. But like anything, it’s hard to live life and not inadvertently support something you disagree with by your normal choices in life. Or it’s just not practical.
Are we going to boycott GM who owned Opel right through the Nazis WWII and beyond? Shold we boycott anything American made because some of this country’s wealth was derrived years ago from full on slavery? Should American companies be boycotted for US government actions that them many or many not agree with?
In then end it’s a personal choice. But carried to an extreme, you will paint yourself into corner if you only try to buy completed from “untainted” companies and coutries.
I think morality should play a bigger role when it comes to car buying. If you watched the underground documentary “who killed the electric car” (available on a stream video website near you if your to cheap to pay for it) you know to what lengths GM went (and not just GM) to prevent legislation that reduces fuel consumption. If you think about it…through lobbying and campaign contributions…to keep oil prices down 4000 US soldiers died in Iraq partly because GM calculated that there was more money in gas guzzling SUV’s than in electric low maintenance, long life EV1’s!
Problem is, if you boycott one how do you know the other car companies aren’t doing something immoral as well?
John
I chanced upon a pro-Israel march through downtown Montreal a few months ago. In the middle of the marchers was a BMW 760Li with at least 5 Israeli flags attached. That was a tremendous dose of irony.
But to answer your question, I would say the only morality I consider is value for money.
No. Morality plays no role in my car buying decisions.
It’s odd because I do consider a company’s labor practices, or environmental record, etc. when making other purchases. I guess I feel I’m already nuking enough gay whales for Christ – or something like that.
I strongly support charitable programs started and/or run by auto companies. The Ford Foundation is a good example. On a smaller scale, BMW’s partnership with the Susan Komen breast cancer research foundation is another.
And yes, I think something like this could affect my next purchasing decision.
If only this type of corporate outreach had more impact on the perception of company morality than whether advertising dollars go to Top Gayer or not.
Mrb00st Says:
“i might not buy a Hyundai/Kia because their CEO embezzled millions of dollars and got off with a slap on the wrist”
I was irate about that too (having already bought two Hyundais) until I dug a little bit and found out that the “embezzling” he did was something which is entirely legal in many nations outside of South Korea, and that it was done for the “benefit” of the company not for his enrichment.
In fact, it was a slush fund for political favors, something we call PACs here in America. Sometimes even slime-ball politicians will straighten up and fly right for a few minutes (especially when they are fresh in power and their opponents have lost).
+1 for NickR
Would you not buy fireworks or toys, because they ARE made by slave labor? We probably shouldn’t.
menno:
So you say Ford caved to the AFA, who righteously boycotted Ford due to the fact that Ford donated to or supported “pro homosexual anti-family organizations.” Anti-family? That’s really where you’re going with this? Like, gay people are all abhorrent monsters who hate families? This crap makes me sick and I’m sad to see it on this great site. I would love to see some real numbers, not some BS statistics from a far-right intolerant hate group (if we’re going to play cheap and dirty, I can fling phrases) determined to keep innocent Americans from living their lives and pursuing their happiness because it doesn’t fit some arch-conservative interpretation of the Bible, proving that Ford’s financial difficulties were due to the AFA’s asinine boycott.
Morality comes into play in car buying, for sure, but once you accept the fact that all corporations, once they reach a certain size, are all guilty of overworking their employees or overcompensating their executives or playing the Pinto game (cost to fix an issue vs. expected cost of lawsuits), the playing field is pretty much leveled again.
…
Yes, well more companies that follow my views on things. I pretty much do it for all my purchases, from cars, to groceries and everything in between. I like sending my money to companies I believe in and would like to succeed and thrive and don’t want a dime of my money to go to the places I think should be brought out back and shot, and that list gets longer and longer.
kazoomaloo: Couldn’t say it better myself.
kazoomaloo: this story is a little out of date, but: “Thanks to the tireless efforts of our missionaries nationwide, in the first seven months of 1998, nearly 300,000 heterosexuals were ensnared in the Pink Triangle,” said NGLRTF co-director Patricia Emmonds. “Clearly, the activist homosexual lobby is winning.”
Full Story: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28970
AFA is a far right wing religious group with some well articled ties to facism – Jesus was white dammit! It is a bunch of idiots who write form letters and prey on confused families and members who are looking to spew hateful comments and hide behind religion. Just like alcohol is to blame for almost every political sex scandal.
I won’t buy another Ford until they repay me for the worse POS I have ever owned. Quality and past experience are the biggest influences on me when I purchase. I’ll buy a Japanese product since what happened over 50 years ago is news from a different era, same with a German product. I would question an English car because of their past reputation but history has already solved that. How far back into the past must we look when judging people. Do I blame the Cro-Magnon man for missing one of the Neanderthals, my neighbor? Should we still bear a grudge on Genghis Khan for killing an ancestor?
If I found out that a particular company did in fact use slave labor I would not buy their product. Japanese workers working themselves to death is a cultural phenomenon and I don’t think it is peculiar to Toyota. If workers do not like where they are working or how they are treated they can always get another job. Some people where I am employed work long hours and have no family life that I can see and it is entirely their choice. No one is forcing them to work long hours. American executives treating corporations as their personal bank account influences my choice when buying. Cars are built by many people and they all deserve a decent piece of the pie.
Subaru goes out of their way to mention in their ads that their plant in the US is a “zero landfill facility”. They never actually say what that means or how it’s better than their competitors.
I inherited a lot of prejudices against German car makers and Ford from my first 18 years. Right or wrong, I expunged much of it.
Recency plays a bigger role in “punishing” companies that do the wrong thing. Ground water polluters, Chinese toy/dog food makers, Wal-Mart’s strong arm tactics with vendors and Microsoft’s unfair trade practices make much easier, more timely and more palatable targets for such rage.
I believe in buying the best car available. I don’t believe in holding ancient history against companies or countries.
After all, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the Germans were all Nazis, and the U.S. government…well, it has made a lot of mistakes.
The Subaru ads make me puke. Zero-landfill but mandatory awd. Their motto should be “We waste more gas ALL of the time!”
A history lesson: Hey! Stop rolling your eyes and pay attention!
mikeolan:
“Subaru bombed Pearl Harbor…”,
What the poster is referring to is that Subaru was at one time the Nakajima aircraft company, and they were Japan’s biggest aircraft company, even bigger than Mitsubishi (more on that later). One of their aircraft was the naval B5N torpedo bomber (allied code name “Kate”) which indeed was used in the attack on Pearl Harbor. They also made several fighters and bombers for the Japanese Army Air Force.
“…and given that Toyota is Japanese, I’m pretty sure they’re tied in with it too.”
No, Toyota started out as a loom manufacturer for textiles and to my knowledge did not have anything to do with armaments.
BlueEr03:
“I believe Mitsubishi made plane engines for the Japanese during WW2…”
Like Nakajima, Mitsubishi was a major aircraft manufacturer making planes and engines. The famous A6M “Zero” fighter for the Navy was produced by Mitsubishi (and Nakajima under license to increase production) as was the G4M “Betty” bomber.
tigeraid:
“Henry Ford funded the Nazi party…”
True, but Ford quickly changed his mind after the war started and the company was key to producing a large amount of war material for the allies, including the “Jeep” (Willy’s was too small to make all the Jeeps the Army wanted) and the B-24 “Liberator” bomber at the new Willow Run plant that was built for that express purpose.
A philosophy lesson: Hey! I said stop rolling your eyes and pay attention!
Can companies moral or imoral? I don’t believe so. Businesses are amoral. They exist to make money. Period. They are kept in check by laws which are passed by a government of (hopefully) moral people (something our Founding Fathers wrote about). The laws cover everything from how they should treat it each other (contract law), to how they should treat employees and even the environment. If the government is not in the hands of moral people then companies of that government will reflect that, which in my opinion pretty much sums up China’s industries.
People can change, so governments can change and business can change for the better (or worse). That’s why I don’t hold a grudge for something Ford or Mitsubishi did 60 years ago. I’m more interested in what they’ve done recently, and if I feel strongly enough about it I will base my purchase decisions on that.
Word.
dutchchris,
I would hardly call “Who Killed the Electric Car” an underground doc. And if my memory serves me, even Toyota weighed in on it, saying that it was unfairly biased against GM. They wondered why the filmmakers chose to not include any mention of Toyota killing their own electric car program — done for much the same reasons that GM did — in spite of the fact that they had recorded interview footage with Toyota executives discussing it. They could only conclude that it was an attempt to unfairly tar GM.
Would you not buy fireworks or toys, because they ARE made by slave labor? We probably shouldn’t.
I sure as hell wouldn’t if I flip it over and see Made in China. I only buy stuff from there when I can’t find an alternative which, as I said, is getting tough to do. A pox on that nation.
Unfortunately, they now ‘own’ a lot of US debt, and effectively have Uncle Sam by the you-know-whats.
I would never buy a Chinese car, because I don’t support fascism. I’m wary about buying from South Korea because of the wild corporate and government corruption over there. Wouldn’t buy from GM because it’s run by arrogant, dishonest, overpaid pricks.
“I would never buy a Chinese car, because I don’t support fascism.”
That seems quite ironic, if you compare what country has killed the most number of people, the USA or China? How many hundreds of thousands in Iraq only? But perhaps they don’t count, being arabs and all?
Politics aside, if I were out to buy a new car, which I am not, I would not consider buying a car from Chrysler, only due to the way they treat their supplier base. I would not trust a car from a company that behaves the way they do.
Nope.
Continuing this list, you’d have to exclude Mitsubishi because they made the Zero fighter planes used to attack Pearl Harbor. Then you’d have to exclude BMW because of the Quandt family’s use of slave labor in WW2. Can’t use Hyundai/Kia because of their corrupt CEO who had his prison sentence for embezzlement suspended indefinitely because he’s just too important to the Korean economy. Volkswagen? No, the Beetle was commissioned by Hitler himself. The list is rather small, and the ‘moral’ companies make cars that I can’t afford. So the answer is no.
LOL, I won’t purchase any GM or Ford products based on their executive management. However, I won’t persuade any one from considering a GM or Ford product.
I think the biggest irony has to be the German OEM’s with Jew’s purchasing their product. I guess the ultimate forgiveness is supporting a country’s ultimate goal was to wipe you off the face of the earth.
I had a Jewish coworker that refused to purchase any German car.
He would chastise any one with a German car he saw at the Synagogue. He has my utmost respect.
I absolutely refuse to buy a Morgan (the last independent British car) because of the 1770 Boston Massacre.
I also refuse to buy Italian cars because of the execution of Jesus at the direction of the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate.
I cannot look at a SAAB or Volvo without picturing a Viking throwing a little French baby up in the air and catching it with his sword.
“That seems quite ironic, if you compare what country has killed the most number of people, the USA or China? How many hundreds of thousands in Iraq only? But perhaps they don’t count, being arabs and all?”
What does this have to do with anything? Kind of a weird thing to bring up, and you make it sound as if the US just rolled in and started shooting up Iraqis in a mass genocide. I don’t think the US should have invaded Iraq, but at the same time I think you’re crazy if you believe that Saddam was running a legitimate administration out there. China has killed way more historically btw, and probably has still killed a lot more during the last 100 years. Not that it matters much. The present is what matters most to me, and the Chinese government is absolutely deplorable.
I don’t think there is such a thing as a moral car company or any business for that matter.
They don’t support your favorite charity because they believe it is the right thing to do; they do it because they know you’ll think better of them for it. It’s just advertising.
And on the other end of the spectrum, it’s just a question of what behavior you consider to be less moral. Every car company in the world has it’s share of environmental, safety, and personnel issues; it’s just a question of which ones you know about and how bad you think the behavior was.
So now, morality had nothing to do with my car purchase. I bought a 2004 Subaru WRX because it’s the best car for me.
I refuse to be held accountable for the sins of my forefathers. I think it is wrong to hold others responsible for the sins of theirs.
I often find that many people hold others to a higher moral code than themselves. I’ll give you a great example. I worked with a Palestinian guy in Australia. Great guy. He often tells me that Israel stole his ancestors’ lands. He had just built a new house in Perth and was very proud of it. I pointed out to him the irony of him settling on land that was stolen from the Aboriginals. I asked him how much time needs to pass before land is considered transferred. His answer, it can never happen. Yet, he has zero guilt about his new house. Go figure.
My point is that if you try to measure all people, products, and services by your own strict moral code, then you will become paralyzed and unable to interact with the world, warts and all.
This is ridiculous. Germany still struggles with its past and with those who would prefer their past, and here we’ve got people who insist that they’re all racists. Can you not see the irony?
Antisemitism, and racism of all sorts towards all peoples, is still a massive problem, and stereotypes like this quite directly contribute to it, and to the apathy with which many people regard it.
yankinwaoz: Great comment. Thank you.
O.K., I admit that for numerous reasons I have barely been able to keep up with TTAC for the past several weeks. But I did notice before that Cammy seemed to vanish for a while. Now you are on the TTAC crew? Bravo girl! I’ve always liked your British viewpoint on things. Keep up the good work.
Yes, morality figures prominently in my car buying choices.
I believe it is positively immoral for me to buy a car that I can’t afford to initially purchase or maintain properly, and even more so, I believe it downright heinous to own a car that is not fun to drive.
How’s that for morality?
Noone’;s hands are really clean. As a politically active family, I recall not buying dow products. (Ok folks why won’t someone in the 60’s buy Dow – hint we were anti war)
Coming from a Jewish family (I am 50) we would not buy a German car — they both fought in WWII – or a Ford because of the Nazis.
When Ford I died and the foundation started to fund causes such as public broadcasting and the like they started to feel differently. As if the family was trying to do good now.
Their first Ford was in 1978. My dad’s first BMW was in 84. Their first Japanese car was ’76.
Today I’m more likely to buy a car by a company that’s not anti-gay. But few are. There are some that focused advertising on the gay communuty before it was safe. I guess they get points but they all want my dollars. If a ceo was to give an anti gay or Jewish tyrade yes I’d boycott.
Other than that make a decent car. Sorry I just boycotted the big 2.8
menno said:
“Look at the group of Christians (the American Family Association) who bycotted Ford due to Ford sending tons of money and support to pro-homosexual causes, basically siding with homosexuals to try to alter all of the culture and marginalize mainstream Christian belief in the process. . . .
Two years later (and a after huge slide in vehicle sales over the entire time) Ford have quietly backed away from sending money to pro homosexual anti-family organizations and the AFA removed their boycott. The AFA had some 1/2 million signatories on this boycott, BTW. I even signed, but never intended to buy a Ford. So yeah, I guess I did “boycott” a company for pushing beliefs that I don’t share.”
I’ll join the REMARKABLY SMALL minority – RoweAS and kazoomaloo – in pointing out menno‘s hateful bigotry and warped world view.
The AFA boycotted Ford for advertising in gay venues, something that an extremely wide array of companies do. You live in a f*cking dream world if you think that there is some powerful gay conspiracy attempting to destroy families, Christianity and the culture at large. We are entitled to the same legal rights, protections and acceptance (for ourselves AND our families) that all Americans have, including undeserving Neanderthals like you.
Jeez, I thought we were enlightened individuals here.
Well Cheney and Bush and many GOP members and their loyal super rich tele-evangelist buddies seem to think so. It’s not like they live in the real world but under a cover of ethics, morals, etc. – ya know just like Spitzer, Foley and Larry Craig – all adamant bashers of gays and always stood on the moral high ground. And what was that CO minister who was vehemently anti gay and he used male escorts for pleasure. What does this make those who are so outspoken against something…they themselves are in the closet.
I can’t remember what newspaper but I read a very funny cartoon on this issue – a husband wearing a tank top shirt says to his wife, “our President is taking measures to make our family stronger.” The wife retorts – “does that mean you’ll stop hitting me?” He replies, “heck no woman – they are banning gay marriage!”
Dick Cheney is not anti-gay. His daughter is a lesbian, and he has openly stated that he is broadly in favour of same-sex marriages.
Also in his favour, he shoots lawyers…
“Morality” is a word not easily defined and when done so it is difficult to omit emotion and subjectivity.
With those provisos aside…..
I suppose I made a moral choice when buying a Chevy Silverado due to its sizable made-in-USA component percentage and having been assembled in a USA factory.
Wanted to help the “home team.”
I learned my lesson and it was detrimental to me.
When possible, I shun China and other products made outside the USA or Canada. Heck, Canada needs the bucks to pay those gosh-awful winter heating bills so I throw a few bucks their way. Besides, does anybody remember the risk their folks in Iraq took back in the 80s to help our people when Iraq invaded our embassy? (an act of war in international law that we did not use to our advantage).
Scouted various stores seeking a hydraulic bottle jack. Nothing but cheaply-made China-built junk that I would not trust in use or to last for long.
Tried NAPA but even their on-shelf offerings were China-sourced.
Gosh, we’ve been shanghaied!!!!
But, a peek at NAPA’s catalog showed an American-built unit in the warehouse in another state. Darn, too bad it wasn’t present to be seen, touched, so I could inspect the unit, perhaps bond with it and make it part of the family unit.
Told I could order and peer at it with no requirement to buy I called it forth and lo, a couple days later it sat before me. Thirty bucks more than the similar China-built unit its obvious superiority was akin to a beacon upon shore to a lost vessel at sea.
Golly, it was even kinda’ purdy’. Superior machining, heavier-gauge steel, smoother threads and, during operation, the smoothness was exhilarating.
I bought it, knowing that barring abuse or ill-luck, I likely possessed a jack that could easily still be in use by my grand-kids, if I had ever bothered to spawn.
Noting the schematic and the parts list, unlike the China-built inferior product, I noted wear parts such as seals were designed to be replaced if needed and that those wear parts were off-the-shelf parts easily found.
Not all products have American-made alternatives and many folk’s budgets do not allow the buying of too many made-in-USA items but, if possible, I encourage folks to, at least if practical, consider seeking out homegrown goodies
Ford has been the most politically correct car company, and the most aggressive in supporting a radical homosexual agenda.
Sure, other companies advertise in homosexual venues and publications. What Ford did/does goes way beyond that, to the point they positively reveled in it – almost a corporate obsession without consideration for business ramifications. To me, another sign that management was more concerned with their pet causes than running the best automobile company.
I come from a Ford family, and actually own two of them – a 67 Galaxie, and a 02 Grand Marquis. But I have to tell you, once the Panther dies, I don’t see me supporting the company for a number of reasons, partially because of their future products don’t interest me, and partially because the company is way too liberal for my tastes.
From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
The term “morality” can be used either
1/ descriptively to refer to a code of conduct put forward by a society or,
some other group, such as a religion, or
2/ accepted by an individual for her own behavior or normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.
Which means there’s no standard, no absolute. No one knows what’s moral and what’s not, but everyone has their own notion of it. Religion and politics loosely aggregate these individual notions to the point of some social idea of right and wrong prevailing. When many people talk about morals, they’re actually referring to ethics. So, is there a “moral” basis for choosing a car, or anything else? Not unless you say so.
As for what’s right and wrong, there’s nothing special about cars to separate them from anything else we buy. The moral thing to do is to make purchasing decisions with consideration of the larger social and economic context. Even this is complex. For instance, in the context of a healthy domestic economy, using American purchasing power to buoy the Mexican economy is at once self-interested and altruistic. In the context of an ailing domestic economy, better to support core domestic economic strength so we regain that position of affording an international view of well-being.
This was essentially the American government’s strategy over more than five decades: use the power of American wealth and markets to liberalize the rest of the world through trade and wealth instigation. Germany, France, the UK and Japan largely recapitalized their postwar economies and manufacturing through trade in the US’ comparatively open market. The Marshall Plan magnified the impact and embraced smaller economies. In the 1970s and early ’80s, when the US was in a bout of post-Vietnam / post oil embargo economic malaise, Europe had it much worse — unemployment and inflation roughly double what we were experiencing. Some of that was of their own doing, but that was irrelevant to the larger issue. In the Cold War, it was easy to know which side you were on. Europe was softening in the face of Soviet belligerence and radical Left exploitation of the economic misery. I had no trouble then spending money on a British car I liked. Ignore the inefficiency of Britain’s carmaking industry. What they needed was time. The industry eventually failed, but it was a bridge to a better economy lengthened in part by Americans and others who exchanged cash for British Leyland product.
Now it’s different. US carmakers produce a wide array of cars, ranging from unworthy to competitive. A recent quality survey noted that the statistical reliability difference between top and bottom rankings of a “Top 50” list today would fit in the difference represented by the top 11 rankings a decade earlier.
The differences between competitive models regardless of origin in a category aren’t meaningful, but the differences in economic impact are. So sure, my version of “morality” in car purchasing is to choose from the Detroit brand cars having no meaningful qualitative difference from imports or transplants within a category. Malibu over Camry or Accord? Easy. F150 or Silverado over Tundra or Titan? Easy. Cobalt over Corolla? Damn straight. I’ve been buying on this principle most of the time for 25 years, and have had the ownership and reliability experiences many wrongly assume to be the exclusive province of Toyota, Honda, et al, while maximizing the domestic economic leverage of my purchasing power.
As for a company’s or country’s past sins? Bygones. What counts is their conduct today, and the trend.
Whether it’s a massive natural disaster, an intolerable murdering tyrant, worry about a great power encroachment or just plain economic backsliding, the U.S. usually gets the global 911 call. The moral thing is to keep ourselves economically robust enough to be generous, internationalist, engaged and prepared more often than not to do the right thing.
Phil
It would take me a very long time to even scratch the surface of my ideas on “morality.” In the interests of keeping this short, no. The only things limiting my car choices are my budget, my expectations and needs, and my pointless and non-“moral” automotive prejudices.
tr3guy
napalm
I’ll join the REMARKABLY SMALL minority – RoweAS and kazoomaloo – in pointing out menno’s hateful bigotry and warped world …
Add me to the list who found this comment a sad testimony to people who have a myopic view of the world. Hope that is not construed as “flaming” but wow…
Regarding Jews and German cars, my parents were among the many who wouldn’t consider it. We avoided Germany when we spent a year in Europe in 1965-66. But too much time has now passed since the Nazis, and I don’t think one can blame their children or grandchildren for what they did. My brother, the observant one among the 3 sibligns, apparently agrees. He has two Passats.
Morality definitely weighs on my vehicle choice. I find it completely immoral to purchase a vehicle that is bland, has poor driving dynamics, and is not fun in any way, as this serves to encourage the production of more of them. These vehicular appliances lead to atrophy of the adrenaline gland and and thus overwhelming swaths of boring, appathetic people. This ever expanding group of easily lead automotons pose a serious threat to all mankind. I will never buy such a vehicle. Never!!!
jaje: It’s not like they live in the real world but under a cover of ethics, morals, etc. – ya know just like Spitzer, Foley and Larry Craig – all adamant bashers of gays and always stood on the moral high ground.
Eliot Spitzer, the disgraced former governor of New York, is a Democrat, and a quite prominent one at that. And he never bashed gays. He solicited prostitutes on a regular basis after prosecuting both escort services and the men who patronized them.
No, morality has no influence on my car buying decisions.
Hmmm
I hate to get started on THIS dietribe…
But..
There are many moral reasons not to by many vehicles…
Ford has his dealings with the Nazi party..
And the Germans.. well they had their share too.
As a Jew, that bothers me.. but not to the point of not buying their vehicles.
I won’t buy a Vehicle from GM because I dont want to give their CEO or anyone involved in that shitter.. any more damn money. They sure as hell.. dont need / deserve it.
Ford.. I wont buy a vehicle from them cause theyve fired wayy too many people and caused wayy too many to be without jobs.. (Taurus DIBACLE, whole reason why they brought Mulally on board.)
Mitsu.. is just a bunch of crap. Ya tout 0,0,0 to people.. and they will bite. That doesnt make a good car maker.. just shrewd marketing. As good as that damn “MIVEC” and their EVO, it doesnt stop me from buying their garbage.
Im sure Toyota has their sins. But overworking isnt part of it. They are Toyotafying Subaru, and thats a sin in itself. Their cars arent bad, but they ARE BADLY LEANING ON SUVS, (Highlander, RAV4, VENZA, RX300, LAND CRUISER, SEQOUIA, 4RUNNER, FJ. Not vehicles I can depend on for a good sporting ride.. and comfort. Not to mention some.. shred if indivuality! And.. a Corolla / Matrix / Vibe made in NUMMI, doesnt count it for me.
Honda has few sins. But their lineup.. while well thought out doesnt cut the cheese.
Its.. hard to find a decent sporting vehicle that I can throw around with a hatch.
Im almost left to my own devices…
“taxman100 Says:
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 am
Ford has been the most politically correct car company, and the most aggressive in supporting a radical homosexual agenda.
Sure, other companies advertise in homosexual venues and publications. What Ford did/does goes way beyond that, to the point they positively reveled in it – almost a corporate obsession without consideration for business ramifications. To me, another sign that management was more concerned with their pet causes than running the best automobile company.”
Well said, Taxman. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I agree – instead of spending valuable time and resources playing around in the culture war, auto companies should simply stick to their knitting and design and deliver good cars to whomever wants to buy them.
I wasn’t trying to put the “hate” on anybody because of what my faith belief (and virtually all other religions) considers just yet another sin (i.e. homosexuality). You summed up the situation well re: Ford.
Regarding the homosexual activists pushing hard to change the culture to meet their demands, you folks have to expect that when you start to push folks into a corner and brow-beat them, you’re going to be pushed back. A very large silent majority DON’T want what you want (and every time “gay marriage” gets to a vote, it is turned down – which is why the homosexual activists are trying to hard to make end-runs around the right of the public to vote), and it isn’t hatred for you that is the cause of this – even though you think it is, it doesn’t make it so. As for comparing homosexuality to civil rights for blacks 40 years ago, it’s insulting to blacks and to thinking people. You’re born black; you are not necessarily born homosexual; it’s a behavior and can be changed, and this has been proven by folks who HAVE changed their mind-set, but of course this fact is also down-played by the gays.
Have sufficient respect for others to realize that we may not agree with you – without using the old stand-by cliches and insults.
I work and get along fine with a large number of gays who are out of the closet and have no personal anomosity towards anyone. I will object to anyone, however, who wishes to take the position that my opinion does not count because it is not currently popular in some circles, and that I therefore don’t have the right to disagree.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74123
That’s simply fascism, and that seems to be the tack taken by the radial homosexuals, radial Democrats and other radical leftists worldwide. The self same folks who ironically point fingers at folks with my opinion and claim we are full of hatred and un-Christlike.
As you claim yourself a Christian, I’ll phrase my reply in terms to suit:
Matthew 7:5
Behind every great fortune there is a crime.
Honore de Balzac
French realist novelist (1799 – 1850)
menno:
Can’t you spout your bigotry elsewhere? Civil rights for blacks and homosexuals is a very similar – you mention yourself that whenever a gay marriage vote comes up it is voted down. You’re absolutely right, and I wonder how school integration would have fared in the South if it were put to a vote? Sometimes, the loud, fearful majority is not right and for our society to become more fair and just for all (not just white Christians) it is necessary to make moves towards a solution the majority is not comfortable with. The tyranny of the majority is still tyranny, and trying to posture it as democracy is false.
How about you quit your sexual obsession and keep your laws out of the bedrooms of Americans? Gay marriage is entirely about practical real-life issues like hospital visits and absolutely not about persecuting Christians. Ford threw advertising dollars into a gay magazine because it saw a potential market segment, not because they’re supporting this phantom “homosexual agenda” you’re so afraid of. Don’t worry, nobody, not the gay community, not me, and certainly not Ford is going to make you turn gay, nor will public acceptance of gay marriage force you to marry a big burly man. Christ preached acceptance and love, not restriction and exclusion, so quit throwing your bible at peaceful Americans just trying to love each other.
Okay folks, that’s the end of it. Personal comments of this nature are not acceptable. We all know the difference between robust issue-based debate and personal arguments. Anything further is going to be deleted.
I’ll support the car company that gives me the best vehicle that suits my needs at price I can afford..
Is there a AFA approved car company? I’ll boycott that one.
Justin Berkowitz:
In all fairness, this is not the first time Menno has stirred this particular pot.
Now that we’re back on track, I take exception to the statement, “Nissan are bullying a small company to relinquish http://www.nissan.com (despite Nissan computers traded as ‘Nissan’ back when Nissan was Datsun).”
Maybe it was “Datsun” in the U.S., but not in the rest of the world. After all, “www” stands for World Wide web.
I’ve read Ari Nissan’s site – by mistake. Like millions of others, I stumbled upon his website when I was checking out the current inventory at my local Nissan (vehicle) dealer. The comments that people submit are hilarious: “I won’t buy one of their cars because they’re trying to get this URL from this guy.” Yeah, whatever…
Meanwhile, the owner of this small computer company is incurring charges for himself and/or his host provider by getting TONS of hits intended for Nissan the automaker. Added to this is that over 85% of adults surveyed would expect to find information on Nissan vehicles at nissan.com.
I’m all for the little guy, but I miss the point of this guy’s desire to stay in this pissing contest…unless he’s trying to get Nissan Motor to pay an exorbitant price for the domain name, which he vehemently denies. Again, whatever…
Of course. If I’m paying more than 50K for a car, someone better have died making it. If over 100K then a good number must have.
That nissan.com thing is one of the more interesting results of the newish nature of the online economy – I wish I knew the real details about why this guy won’t sell Nissan the name for a price they’re willing to pay (or quit fighting the army of lawyers they’ve probably thrown at him). TTAC should do an in-depth interview with this guy, it would be a good read.