While Chrysler jumps headlong into the concept car vaporware EV game, Toyota is taking its usual evolutionary approach. Bloomberg reports that ToMoCo will stick with its Prius strategy, augmenting it only with a Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) burning hybrid version of its Camry sedan. The CNG Hybrid is a response to lower natural gas prices in the US compared to normal gasoline, and the modest success of Honda’s CNG Civic. No pricing or efficiency information is currently available for the CNG Hybrid Camry. Meanwhile, Toyota is still driving down the replacement cost of its Prius-powering NiMh battery packs, which now set first and second-gen Prius owners back $2,299. Calling the Prius “as close to a silver bullet as you’re going to get,” Bill Reinert, national manager of advanced technology for Toyota Motor Sales claims “the reason the Prius was such a successful car is that the customer didn’t have to do anything to it.” And to those who say that hybrids are a “transitional technology,” Toyota will be selling a million Priora per year by 2010, before Chrysler and GM even start selling their highly-touted EVs. Slow and steady, as they say…
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The reason there is no pricing or efficiency information available for the Camry CNG Hybrid is that pricing is irrelevant — it’s not for sale, as Bloomberg notes. For now, it’s just a concept, like diesel/hybrid concepts that several European automakers have shown over the last couple years.
Now I understand why Honda just sold PHILL – the PHILL unit (which is an at-home CNG refuelling station which mounts on your garage inner wall, and attaches to the natural gas line going to your home, and also to the electrical grid) compresses the natural gas and allows your car to refuel while you sleep.
CNG is about $1.10 per gasoline gallon equivalent in Utah, and no more than $2.75 per gasoline gallon equivalent anywhere in the U.S., apparently.
Add to that, the efficiency advantages of the hybrid system?
That sounds like a winnahhhhhh…..
Ironically, Toyota AREN’T THE FIRST with this technology. Hyundai just announced an Elantra LPG hybrid FOR PRODUCTION and SALE in South Korea, I believe starting next year (NOT 2010…) – of course LPG is what we know as PROPANE not CNG – but it’s still the first “gas-hybrid” announced.
http://www.yorkblog.com/greenmesh/2008/03/hyundai_lpg_hybrid.php
One of the nice things about CNG/LPG, especially in urban settings, is that it’s very clean-burning. It doesn’t address the carbon issue, but at least the noxious- and smog-forming emissions are much lower.
If I ever buy an obnoxious sports car, my concession to my inner greenie is that I’ll convert it to CNG.
The fill-up time, though, sucks. So does the big, heavy canister required to deal with the fuel. Does a hybrid+CNG Camry have any trunk space? At all?
It’s just a concept – the Camry Hybrid already has a reduced trunk, 9 cubic feet or so. Put a CNG tank in and you’re talking Solstice-class luggage capacity.
@Richard Chen – I’d assume they would remove the regular gas tank, so I’m thinking they’d be able to still at least stay in miata territory with luggage capacity. The CNG tank is no doubt bigger/heavier per gallon of capacity, but not ridiculously so. I bet they make it hold a little less with same exterior dimensions as the gas tank it replaces.
I think the lower price on the battery pack is the bigger news here. It just dropped to 3k about a year ago no? Finding an extra $700 in profit margin on a 22k car is a pretty big deal.
psarhjinian:
One of the nice things about CNG/LPG, especially in urban settings, is that it’s very clean-burning. It doesn’t address the carbon issue, but at least the noxious- and smog-forming emissions are much lower.
The phrases “clean burning” and “much lower” overstate the clean air benfits of CNG. While the VOCs are very low, ALL new cars offer low tailpipe emisssions in this day and age.
A gasoline Civic is already rated as an “Ultra-Low Emission Vhicle” (ULEV), while the CNG Civic is a “Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle” (AT-PZEV).
Last I checked, a PZEV vehicle met the “Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle” (SULEV)tailpipe requirements (The Partial zero part adds tougher evaporative emissions requirements, which all CNG vehicles meet, since they don’t have an evaporative canister).
This means buying a CNG Civic moves you from the “Ultra” bin to the “Super Ultra” bin as tracked by CARB. While this is a measureable improvement, folks buying a gas powered Civic are already driving one of the cleanest cars available.
Sorry to nit-pick, but I spent some time working in an emissions lab, and believe the auto industry takes it in the shorts when it comes to emissions. They have in fact made huge emission reductions compared to most other industries (for some pollutants, over 99% in overall emissions reductions).
Sorry to nit-pick, but I spent some time working in an emissions lab, and believe the auto industry takes it in the shorts when it comes to emissions.
Good points, in all.
Given your background, hat’s your take on emissions in cars other than than those like the Civic? Say CNG/LPG buses versus their diesel brethren? Or larger-engined cars (taxis, work trucks)?
I ask because it seems like the move to CNG would be a boon to air quality in vehicles like those, especially in “city in a bowl” geographies like my former hometown.
CNG is a New Zealand staple. In Australia we have factory LPG dedicated Falcons, Commodores, Mitsubishi Magna (before they quit building cars in Australia). All working and with LPG prices aprroximating 1/2 price of petrol economical to boot. With a government rebate of AUS$1000 for new cars and $2000 for converting older cars a winner all around. Now tell opec you are moving you entire dependance from oil to natural gas for transport and see them (and the E85’ers) start blubbering!
psarhjinian :
Given your background, what’s your take on emissions in cars other than those like the Civic? Say CNG/LPG buses versus their diesel brethren? Or larger-engined cars (taxis, work trucks)?
This is a topic with many caveats, but here’s the Cliff Notes version:
Regarding CNG/LPG versus diesel power in buses: Current technology makes compressed gases the better choice. Diesel tends to be high in NOx and particulates, both something to be avoided. Clean diesel also requires special catalysts and traps, while CNG only requires a three-way catalyst. Given those facts, CNG is an inexpensive alternative that has a big impact on the emissions of older diesel busses.
Caveat 1: This statement assumes we’re converting old technology diesel busses to CNG. I left the emissions lab in 2003, and haven’t tracked the changes over the past five years so the answer could change for the newest technology.
Regarding vehicle size:
Current US emission regulations measure tailpipe pollutants by mass (grams per mile), rather than concentration (percent). While this is often misunderstood, it means the total WEIGHT of CO, HC and NOx coming out the tailpipe is the same regardless of vehicle size.
Caveat 2: True only if the vehicles are in the same “BIN” or category (LEV, ULEV, SULEV).
Caveat 3: Historically light trucks have been allowed to emit more pollutants than cars. CARB and EPA wrote legislation to close this loophole, but I’m not sure how today’s standards read.
I ask because it seems like the move to CNG would be a boon to air quality in vehicles like those, especially in “city in a bowl” geographies like my former hometown.
Folks who model air quality for a city look very carefully at all pollutant sources, and factor in local conditions when designing a regional air quality plan. Towns such as Denver and Salt Lake City have to factor in altitude along with bowl type geography, and Southern towns such as Phoenix and Houston have to weigh in more sunlight than towns in the Northeast. In addition, air quality regulators look at bang for the buck before making recommendations. For example, if a town has a carbon monoxide problem, replacing diesel buses will have little impact, since diesels produce almost no CO. Conversely, towns with ozone problems would look at diesel replacement very carefully, since a changeover could have a big impact on air quality.
Whew! Four hundred words, and I barely scratched the surface. If you want to find out more about local pollutants, contact your local air quality agency, and ask to speak to the folks in charge of mobile sources. Their work day is devoted to these issues, and can talk about the issues that directly affect you.
@tulsa_97sr5: CNG tanks don’t fit well in the convoluted space that gas tanks do. Example: Honda Civic GX, with a 7 gallon equivalent carbon fiber tank, still loses half its trunk space.