Find Reviews by Make:
After an epic meeting about TTAC site tweaks, I returned to an email from a seriously perturbed member of our Best and Brightest. It reads as follows… “Over on CNN.com home page Chevy has an ad for the Volt. It says ‘Chevy Volt will go 40 miles before using any gas at all. Fully charged 2010.’ Then, in fine print on the bottom, ‘Performance capabilities subject to change without notice.’ What the hell is that (the fine print)? Does it do 40 mile or doesn’t it? Sounds like GM doesn’t know.”
35 Comments on “Volt Birth Watch 90: Use the Fork...”
Read all comments
I said it before, but I feel it bears repeating here: I am willing to bet money that “40 miles per charge” is based specifically on optimum electric driving conditions, which will probably be unreachable for the average motorist.
That last line is just covering their butts in the likely event that normal driving conditions deliver less than 40 miles electrically.
Happy Centennial, GM!
I believe the Volt will go 40* miles without gas, cost $40k* and be available by 2010*.
*Subject to change without notice.
I can name numerous technical artifacts that contain that sort of disclaimer:
http://www.national.com/ms/CL/CLC730145-MISC.pdf
“National does not assume any responsibility for use of any circuitry described, no circuit patent licenses are implied and National reserves the right at any time without notice to change said circuitry and specifications.”
billc83: am willing to bet money that “40 miles per charge” is based specifically on optimum electric driving conditions, which will probably be unreachable for the average motorist.
You mean like the EPA fuel economy statistics until 2008?
I’m going to guess that something like
http://avt.inel.gov/phev.shtml
will ultimately be used. Whether the testing distributions reproduce exactly the observer fleet behavior is useful, but not overwhelmingly important. I think the biggest problem, even if the testing distributions hit the mean of the fleet exactly, is that driver-to-driver/route-to-route variations will be amplified as general energy efficiency of vehicles improve.
Which means lots of people saying “I’m only getting 32 miles per charge! GM IS A PACK OF FILTHY COMMIE LIARS!”
Gas prices are going waaayyyyyy down, and so is oil. No one’s going to buy these hybrids except as a status symbol.
People are going to ask themselves:
3-4 dollars a gallon of gas or 20,000 dollars premium for a Chevy plug-in?
Wouldn’t be easier to license the technology from Toyota et al.. bung on a “designed in America” body and claim it as their own? Infinately cheaper and the GM way of doing business?
Since the batteries will not do the job for most of us complainers.
Why don’t we ask the question ” What’s the MPG?”
We all know the battery pack that costs between $10,000 and $30,000 dollars can never save enough gas to cover the gas savings (lasts 100,000 mi).
When will we learn the costs of lithium when we develop a product that will increase demand of lithium by 1000x.
Capacitor based on carbon nanotubes ????
license what Toyota plug-in technology?
Again, I agree with this beef in principle. However, you can’t just target GM on this one. How many times do you read a magazine article on a pre-production vehicle with the disclaimer that mileage, hp, price are TBD? Same thing here.
40 miles on level ground at 35mph, with no stops, no passengers, 75 degrees fahrenheit outdoor temperature, windows closed, A/C and radio turned off, and a strong tailwind….maybe.
Airdensity is also an issue so you can add Denver to the requirments.
Way OT, but Yoda is stinking up my copy of Soulcalibur IV. Yeah, I could have gotten the PS3 version for Darth Vader, but I hear he sucks. And Vader’s Apprentice… goddamn, he’s a cheap bastard. He’s like Kilik times eleventy billion in the right (wrong?) hands. And they all stick out like a Prius in a sea of muscle cars…
Wait, what were we talking about?
I wonder how the Volt is going to perform on a long mountain grade such as we routinely deal with in the Western US? As I understand it, the Volt’s engine-generator set will not have enough output to fully drive the electric motor. The idea is that short bursts of extra energy for passing, etc., will come from the battery. But, how long will that extra juice hold out for? Imagine passing an RV during a short passing lane section of a narrow mountain road and then all of a sudden hiting battery rock bottom mid-pass. Rut Row! With a conventional engine, assuming nothing is broken, this can’t happen … but with a Volt architecture vehicle it surely can.
@ Usta Bee & charly:
I now reside about 500′ up (vertical) from Denver, so I’m in the running. BUUUUTTTT….shouldn’t there be a disclaimer about needing to drive it for 2.3 million miles before making up the price premium over a Toyhondissazdazukundaikia?
I wonder how the Volt is going to perform on a long mountain grade such as we routinely deal with in the Western US?
I’d have to assume that one of the prototype mules will be working that out. It has to be on the mind of someone at GM…
It seems that GM invited that dude behind “Who Killed The Electric Car?” to the proceedings, and the dude seems to have been won over.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26737673/page/2/
Looks like one of the critics has been won over…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26737673/page/2/
The Volt’s range may be increased having already proven travel over 40 miles on a single charge, using a much less aerodynamic Malibu body shell, and incomplete calibration. Meeting the range is no longer an issue, go back to nitpicking the exterior.
http://jalopnik.com/390705/2011-chevy-volt-battery-hits-40+mile-range-target-while-wearing-skin-of-dead-malibu
I wonder how the Volt is going to perform on a long mountain grade such as we routinely deal with in the Western US?
http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/02/the-pikes-peak-question-chevy-volt-and-the-infinite-hill/
I think the Volt’s range was designed to get into Detroit from north of Eight-Mile Road and back on a single charge in all weather conditions.
The rest is gravy.
OK, so a few articles earlier, we learn that even now GM cannot build a new type of transmission (CVT) that will not fail spectacularly.
Now we are trusting these folks to build a new type of powertrain.
Even if the Volt gets 40 miles on the batteries, and even if it sells beyond GM’s wildest dreams, I would be concerned about the huge costs that GM will have to absorb when the vehicle starts to fall apart in a few years and the inevitable class action lawsuit opens.
Toyota uses a CVT tranny in the Prius. What kind of tranny does the Volt have?
Performance on a long up grade. With a flat battery it can’t be better than a normal 3000lb car with a 1.4L normally aspirated engine. Think about it. It won’t be pretty.
With a car like this they would have to be brainless to not offer a charge sustaining mode so you can maintain battery juice if you choose and if you know you are heading to the hills you will need to.
To Jolo. Prius doesn’t really have a transmission. Just some orbital gears and two electric motors. The Volt should have no transmission at all except some reduction gears and a differential.
Enough already! EVERY window sticker says in easy to read print: “Your mileage will vary.”
Yes Penelope, Toyotas too!
I have to also look at this as I do fuel economy.
People saying it will only be on level ground, with a certain wind, and a certain weight, etc. That if you drive like a normal person you won’t get 40miles on your charge
DUH.
Just like you only attain EPA estimated fuel economy when you drive the way they test. And if you put your foot into it you get way less.
Whats the difference?
Airdensity is also an issue so you can add Denver to the requirments.
I bet they’ll test in a downhill stretch near Leadville, CO, elevation 10,152 where the air density is much lower than it is in Denver.
First off, the comments system wasn’t working for me last night, sorry for the double post.
Secondly, about the whole uphill issue, the press release says that the Volt has 275 lb-ft of torque or some ungodly number. Now, how will the transition from electric motor to range extender petrol engine to assist the electric motor help or hurt that number? I’m scratching my head over this…
ferrarimanf355 :
Secondly, about the whole uphill issue, the press release says that the Volt has 275 lb-ft of torque or some ungodly number. Now, how will the transition from electric motor to range extender petrol engine to assist the electric motor help or hurt that number? I’m scratching my head over this…
I think the problem comes around when you deplete the batteries, and the petrol engine is not able to produce enough electrity to get you 275 lb-ft of torque (which is also probably only available at 0 rpm).
The petrol engine won’t be assisting the electric motor. It’ll only be used to keep the batteries charged. The torque rating will not change. Scratch your head no more.
The petrol engine won’t be assisting the electric motor. It’ll only be used to keep the batteries charged. The torque rating will not change. Scratch your head no more.
Okay, now about towing… I kid, I kid…
No Transmission
No Differential
Gasoline engine tuned to run at a specific speed to provide maximum current to support maximum torque 275lbs. Gets over terror of no battery charge. Gasoline engines tuned to run at specific RPM gives engineers best advantage to save fuel.
How much does the battery replacement cost? Have you bought shares in Lithium mining company in Nevada?
Robert “got it”. The fine print didn’t say “YOUR result will vary”, which is obvious to anyone with half a brain.
It says “Performance capabilities subject to change without notice.” That tells me that GM is not confident they are going to deliver what they are promising in the ad. Simple as that.
Yes, I suppose I could also have an optimistic interpretation of the fine print and assume it means that GM thinks that they will will exceed 40 miles. But I don’t think so.
Some GM guy was on the CBS Early Show this morning with a Volt. He said that by 2010, people like him (I assume higher up GM workers) would be driving them, but they won’t be available at dealers until November 2011. So the whole 2010 thing is a lie in terms of average people that might want to buy one.
brettc, I don’t think that guy knows what he’s talking about…
ferrariman:
That’s what I thought. According to the CBS site, it was Bob Bonifice, the Volt design director. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/17/earlyshow/main4454824.shtml
He says that “people will be able to get one in 2010, but they won’t be at dealer showrooms until November 2011”. So I guess in 2010 you can get one if you make out a certified check for $200000 to Rick Wagoner or something. Otherwise you have to wait.
They say 40 miles on batteries, and 300-400 miles on the gas engine. My 2001 Accent could go 320 miles on a tank, and it only cost me $12000 with all the options.
yankinwaoz: It says “Performance capabilities subject to change without notice.” That tells me that GM is not confident they are going to deliver what they are promising in the ad. Simple as that.
This is getting a little silly, isn’t it?
Go to google and enter (with quotes):
“specifications can change without notice”
I get 30 kilohits. Products from computers, to food, to mass spectrometers, to medical information systems. Are these companies not confident their products will deliver as advertised, essentially pulling a fast one on their current and potential customers?
Or is this just standard disclaimer boilerplate?
You guys are mistaken. Horsepower and Torque will be cut in half when they battery goes flat and you run on the generator.
The Genset is 53KW peak or about 70HP, less than half of what the motor is spec’ed to do under battery power.
Essentially when the battery is flat you have a 3000lb economy car with a 70HP engine. Fun times. Poor acceleration and a poor grade climbing.
Ouch, no wonder GM’s not in a rush to get this to market. They have to be thinking about how to avoid that problem…