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TTAC commentator Redbarchetta writes… “I was wondering after seeing that NASCAR picture in the latest post. Has there been any word on what happens to NASCAR funding? I’m mainly talking about GM and Chrysler since they are closest to death and cutting EVERYTHING. It would make sense that they would stop supporting that also. I’m really not even a huge NASCAR fan so I don’t even know how something like that would impact the sport. I was also wondering, just for kicks since the government won’t let it totally collapse, but what happens to NASCAR if Detroit folds and they have no more manufacturer support or sponsorship? Would the sport collapse also or just become the Toyota Camry-athon?”
32 Comments on “Ask the Best and Brightest: What’s Gonna Happen to NASCAR?...”
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Rednecks will invent something else. Football anyone?
Camry-ish spec series, or a Camry vs. Accord vs. Altima vs. Mazda6 shootout?
Bernie Ecclestone will buy NASCAR out, then move it to a 4 cylinder OHC spec engine. Then slowly move the races off shore to make it more international to expand Kia and Chery sponsorship.
Along the way make irrational rule changes and equipment requirements to gain free press and confirm who is in charge.
It’ll still be there…but with the gradual change to a single body design (COT), chassis design…the next step is the engine. So, NASCAR will essentially be a closed-body version of how CART and IRL were: 1 chassis/body, 1 drivetrain. That’s fine with me as I really could care less.
Of course, this will upset certain people who think that a brand is superior because of it’s NASCAR win status. NASCAR is not “stock car” racing, SCCA has “stock car” racing.
NASCAR fans are very loyal (myself included) and sponsors know it.
For all those that think they hate NASCAR, just go to a race sometime. Their a lot of fun and much better then boring open wheel races. When all 43 cars start racing, it’s great to see them inches apart and rubbing. Plus the wrecks are awesome, not to mention it is great people watching as my wife says.
I used to always go to races, my dad was the head marketing guy for Texaco/Havoline. NASCAR was great (in my opinion) in the 80s and early 90s as aerodynamics were starting to play a major factor and the speeds were increasing.
I remember at the ripe age of 9 being able to stand in the engine-less engine bay of the white 28 T-Bird. Meeting Davey Allison, later Ernie Irvan and DJ…as well as Robert Yates.
Races are alot of fun to be at, but not to watch on TV. I’ve lost interest over the years as NASCAR tried to create drama between drivers, tried to make it a family-sport, and tried to make it too PC/mainstream.
Financially: I doubt that any of the Big 2.1 have much to do with the dollars spent at NASCAR. If Procotor & Gamble were facing C7 then you could start the panic.
Functionally: There are enough small block Chevy and similar crate motor push-rod V8s around to keep the series running for another 50 years. After all Unlimited Hydroplanes roared around with old Rolls-Royce Merlins and Griffons for 4 or 5 decades with a much smaller pool of hardware to pull from.
–chuck
I’m with TEXN3: NASCAR will move to a spec series. The France family owns Grand Am racing. It’s prototype series is pretty close to spec racing now. (By the way “prototype spec” racing is an oxymoron.) Spec racing tends to promote drivers (as heroes, celebrities, product endorsers); non-spec series tend to promote technology (although Formula One drivers do well as celebrities so its not an exclusive OR situation, however, F1 is moving closer to spec too).
My question was more about the immediate impact of a loss of Chrysler/Dodge the other was just a what if? I think Chuck more or less answered my question about sponsorship, I just figured GM/F/C contributd more heavily. I am more or less a NASCAR idiot so I figured I would pose the question. Thanks for the resonses.
I could see Honda and maybe even Mazda getting an invite to join if GM and Chrysler pull out to try and prevent it from becoming too much of a spec series (never mind it’s one spec car/chassis plus a more-or-less spec engine with a different name per manufacturer on it).
And they wonder why WRC and touring car racing is starting to gain ground here – they are closer to what we can go buy as is than Nascar, IRL, F1, etc.
It’s been moving towards becoming a spec series since the mid 90’s, this is just another step in that direction. Engines and decals are all that separate the cars anyway now. Boring.
Now, rally car racing, that’s exciting. +1 Orian.
The OE’s pour close to 9 figures – each – annually into NASCAR.
Most go to the race teams. Even with the COT there’s not been much cost savings to date.
….When some or all of the DTW OE’s shut off the money, it’ll leave a mark.
On top of that NASCAR’s been losing TV share year over year for about 5 years now. (But …there’s always a good reason so don’t worry, say France-Helton et al. …the race was up against a big NFL weekend… or it rained …or there was a World Series game or or or…always something.)
Very few people still believe the Win on Sunday – Sell on Monday axiom. (The fact that there are any at the OEs that believe this is frightening in and of itself) …they’re usually the very senior folks who are deeply insulated from real life and, as regards motorsports, only know what they know from their respective Racing Directors … who have very vested interests in continuing to sell the wonderous marketing powers of turning left for 500 miles.
As for the non-car sponsors… depends on their respective business circumstances. Recession. Budgets get cut. Advertising and/or event marketing is often near the top of the list. If you’re Lowe’s or Home Depot or Dupont and your guy is getting lots of TV time (e.g., running up front), might be a good spend. If your guy only gets on the tube when he gets lapped or puts it into the wall…not so good of an investment.
NASCAR is such a joke that personally I don’t care what happens to it. While once upon a time it was a STOCK CAR (the SC part of the name) racing series. Today the cars have absolutely nothing in common with production cars. Maybe the drivers can go back to being smugglers of illegal substances. Get back to their moonshiner roots.
All of the car companies would do well to spend their money elsewhere. Toyota is wasting time and money trying to cozy up to the four wheeled Harley demographic. I suppose that with Home Depot and other sponsorships the series will continue as a spec racing show as others have suggested.
With any luck, maybe it would turn into something like the British Touring Car series. Would be nice to see some modified road cars that most folks could buy racing on a road circuit and maybe even some ovals to keep the NASCAR folks happy.
NASCAR cars are so far from what they are supposed to be based off of, it is sickening. When could I ever get a RWD Taurus or Camry?
There is no direct relationship between the actual NASCAR race cars themselves and the OEM vehicles the “customers” buy on the street. As we know, NASCAR race cars are just tube cage shells built within race rules that enable teams to airbrush or decal on the vehicle brand logo and a slight visual reference to perhaps a grille or tailight. Luv those rear wheel drive Tauri!
NASCAR is an overhyped sport with no real tie between the vehicle brand and the vehicle owners. At least wihin the NHRA, you’ll find actual production vehicles in action, like my recent witnessing of a newer vette Z06 grenading a diffy at launch.
Perhaps we should pose the ROI question for Chrysler and GM….what is the direct relationship of monies spent in NASCAR to actual vehicle sales?
NASCAR will probably be with us for a while yet, but I have to imagine it will be in a greatly reduced form.
If GM and Chrysler go belly up I have to believe their sponsorship dollars and resources disappear from the NASCAR scene. For the sake of argument let’s say Ford and Toyota manage to hang around.
Some teams would just close shop if GM and Chrysler are gone and some would switch to Ford or Toyota.
The loss of GM and Chrysler might also put some popular drivers out of the sport. Both these events probably mean a significant number of fans lose interest.
Not a majority of fans, but enough to do some real damage to the money that NASCAR draws from other sponsors and their TV contracts.
In the end I think we’ll see NASCAR retrenchment in the South. It will revert to being a strongly regional sport, similar to how it operated in the late 70s and early 80s.
Given the following:
-The big three do not have money to pour into NASCAR anymore, if they even stay in business.
-Everyone is into greenwashing these days.
-The France family will want to keep costs down and competition tight with closely matched basic cars.
-Toyota, Honda and VW have a ton of cash.
I predict that the future of NASCAR consists of:
-Body shells that look like the next generation Toyota Prius, the next generation Honda Insight and the VW Jetta TDI, modified enough that they have the same down force and coefficient of drag.
-On top of tube frame chassis with solid rear axles, four speed manuals and carbureted small block V8s that Honda and VW will have to specially design and manufacture (Toyota is already there, they will just have to switch the Camry shell to a Prius shell).
That or NASCAR will just die.
NASCAR hasn’t been the same since Ol’ Ironhead stuffed it into the wall.
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/bobby1970/Redneck%20NASCAR%20Fan.jpg
One thing that has always bugged me about Nascar since they adopted this common aero, then car of tomorrow crap is that if one manufacturer is doing better than the rest they tend to step in and force changes upon the one that is winning a lot instead of encouraging competition. That’s why I liked F1 for a while – if you were behind you had no one to blame but yourself/your team. It was up to the teams to innovate and improve, not for the losers to whine until the leaders are hamstrung enough for them to be able to keep up.
If you look at the retail automotive landscape you see what has happened to Detroit – they didn’t innovate enough to even maintain pace with the Japanese and look where they are now? No one is going to step in and make Det3’s competitors slow down one bit for them unlike what Nascar did to Toyota this year.
Well, the Craftsman Truck Series is, as always, the best stockcar (stocktruck?) racing on the planet, and Camping World just signed on for 7 years as the series sponsor. This is a huge relief, because it’s consistently more exciting, with better personalities, nicer looking and handling vehicles, better tracks and most importantly, much closer championship racing without all the bullshit “Chase” stuff. And all in glorious HD on SPEED Channel. As we speak Johnny Benson and Ron Hornaday have only 3 points separating them for the championship with 3 races to go, and have swapped the lead back and forth a few times. Meanwhile in Cup, Jimmie Johnson continues to pull away from the field.
Frankly I couldn’t care less what happens to the Cup series now–and that’s saying a lot, because I’m a stockcar racer myself and used to follow Cup as a diehard fan–but since about 2003 it’s gone completely downhill in a variety of ways.
The lack of manufacturer support is only one nail
of many in the almost-shut coffin for NASCAR. Declining TV ratings, TERRIBLE attendance at the races, and decreased merchandise sales are all related to:
1) the “Car of Sorrow” (nee Tomorrow), which is a complete abomination that handles like a dump truck and looks about as good…
2) Goodyear just deciding to not give a shit about developing tires anymore, bringing the same piece of crap to the track, and having them completely destroyed at several points throughout the race–see Indy, Martinsville and Atlanta. And then, rather than finding a solution, blaming the car and the teams.
3) Bullshit officiating, no clear-cut rules and completely arbitrary penalties handed down for rules infractions we don’t even have the paperwork on.
4) The Worst Idea in Racing History, aka “The Chase for the Cup.” Since its inception it’s done nothing but make the points race at the end even WORSE, often with wider points gaps from 1st to 2nd than they would’ve had in the OLD points system. It rewards blind luck, and it rewards “playing it safe” pussy racing prior to the final 10 races, where drivers care more about securing their spot in the top 12 then they do about winning. It’s almost single-handidly
destroyed what was the most exciting race of the year, the Bristol night race–everyone pussyfooting around because it’s so close to the Playoffs that no one wants to get caught up in wrecks.
5) The removal of race dates from awesome, old-school, competitive racetracks with character (Darlington, North Wilkseborough, Rockingham) to faceless, boring, bland 1.5 mile tri-ovals (Kansas, Chicago, California, Texas) that ruin the racing, all in the name of making a few more short-term bucks.
And of course the reason that is most pertinent to TTAC, which is that the Car of Sorrow, even MORESO than cars before it, has nothing whatsoever in common with its street version–combine that with tough financial times and it’s almost a foregone conclusion that we may not see any manufacturer support besides Toyota and MAYBE GM still hanging on in 2010.
I should point out though, that many other stockcar racing classes in North America still run Ford/Dodge/Chevy/Whatever without factory support. The question is not whether there’ll still be Chevys and Fords on the track–the question is whether they’ll be factory-backed or not. Roush, Hendrick and RCR will likely still run Fords and Chevys, and can support it themselves. The real problem is that this will completely erradicate small teams from the series, who can’t afford to run things on their own.
Whatever happens to NASCAR it sucks ass compared to amateur racing.
I can be herded into some stadium like cattle, stuck on some bleacher paying Baby Jesus God knows what for warm budweiser.
Or I can go up to Road America for the weekend to watch the June sprints. While I’m there I’m free to walk around a road race track that looks like it was built into a state park, and watch the multiple races with multiple classes of open wheel cars and real stock cars. When I get bored watching one corner I just walk to another.
I can eat and drink whatever I brought, and the staging area is open to walk through and look at the cars up close.
I’ve heard that some country girls flash their tits at Talladega, so I’ll give NASCAR some credit for that, but really that would only get me in trouble with my girlfriend.
And before anyone labels me a coastal elitist for disliking NASCAR, realize that the racing that I prefer occurs in central Wisconsin.
tigeraid:
I know they call it the Chicagoland Speedway, but I would prefer that it is referred to as the Joliet Speedway.
Ford is still funding NASCAR, right? I heard that they re-upped with Roush Fenway Racing, so it won’t be all Toyota, all the time.
Of course, if NASCAR evolves into something like the DTM, WTCC, or Australian V8 Supercars series, that would be cool, too.
NASCAR could go diesel.
The cars themselves could be built by the race teams, while the powertrains are supplied by Cummins, CAT, Navistar, and Detroit Diesel.
Everyone can argue all they want about how stock a “stock car” is, but the closest thing to a stock racing car is the stock classes at SCCA autocrosses. Everything else is at best “stock appearance”. For safety reasons, I don’t think NASCAR will ever return to anything resembling stock. The best we could hope for is factory stock, right off of the same assembly line as going into production car motors. That is huge a stretch, but it would bring some relativity to the series. Example: “Hey the Ford’s are fast, but they are lucky to get halfway through the race!”
Road race purists can scream all they want about “real racers” turn left and right, but the best road race guys don’t necessarily make good oval drivers. The best is probably Juan Montoya, who is lucky to get a top 10 on an oval and his only NASCAR win is at a road course. Let’s face it, the reason oval racing is more popular than road racing is that you can the entire race track. Good road course seats allow you to see maybe 50% of the track. The rest of the time, you see the same cars every minute or two and potentially miss out on something big.
no_slushbox :
October 31st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Whatever happens to NASCAR it sucks ass compared to amateur racing.
Got to agree with this statement. The Grassroots of motorsports,
that is where the fun is, shoestring budgets, good clean racing,
If you haven’t been, you’re missing out…
SteveL
If Nascar dies, it means that every other motorsport in the US died before it, and hockey.
The non-stock stock cars have much better racing. Back in the day, Nascar races were like F1 races. Parades with one car leading every lap and 1-3 cars on the lead lap.
Nascar has been going downhill ever since Brian France took over. The decline in attendance, TV viewers, and sponsors ALL began before the economy started melting down.
Singlehandedly, he’s taken the fastest growing, most popular sport in America and turned it into a politically correct romper room activity… and more than anything else, THAT’S what’s killing Nascar.
I’d be more concerned about what will happen to Formula 1 if Max Mosley makes good on his promise to use a single engine manufacturer.
NASCAR will survive. It may not be the huge moneymaker it is now, but it will survive. Open wheel racing in North America is dead. Years of bickering between the IRL and Champ car destroyed public interest, and NASCAR saw the opportunity to swoop in to take up the fans that the those open-wheel leagues gave away in their foolishness.
You can’t count on F1 coming to the rescue either. The tire debacle at Indy in 2006 is just a flimsy excuse for Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone to say that Indianapolis just wasn’t good enough for them. Now that there’s no F1 races in Canada, there’s no legitimate alternative to NASCAR.
You don’t have to worry about lack of sponsorship from Detroit, either. They’re way past the realm of sticking with automotive-based companies to sponsor them.
NASCAR will be just fine. We could only wish we had a man like the late Bill France, Jr. running things in Detroit.
no_slushbox : Whatever happens to NASCAR it [is sub-par] compared to amateur racing.
This is so true it bears repeating (without the colorful language of the original).
I would further add that when “big money” enters any sport that sport becomes a farce in short order. Money trumps sportsmanship and true competition every time. As an example, just look at the Olympics. Countries and individuals will do whatever it takes (read: lie and cheat) just for feigned national glory or lucrative product endorsements, respectively.
Go out and see those who race for the love of it alone!
no_slushbox
Your talk about amateur racing really applies to “road racing”, as opposed to oval racing. If you go to a NASCAR race at Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, or Sears Point, you’re gonna have the exact same experience–campers, free roaming around the course, BBQs, food, whatever. It’s the exact same experience.
It’s more a product of the way road courses are set up, not the type of racing you’re watching.
But there are ovals where that works too (including “amateur” stockcar racing, like what I race)… my home track of Delaware for example, only has grandstands immediately in front of the front stretch… to the left and right of them are big open lawns with a bit of a slope. About half the fans put out blankets and BBQs and walk around and have a party during the races.
The situation definitely varies depending on the track, not the form of racing.
KeithBates
Then go check out your local short track man–god knows we’re racing on shoestrings. :p
ferrarimanf355
Ford re-upped with Roush in the Cup series, but confirmed they are pulling support of their Trucks… Roush is rich enough that he can continue to support the Truck effort on his own, and it’s been a VERY lucrative breeding ground for his “next young stars”, so he’s wise to keep it running.
Now, I was going to avoid the subject of “hating on stockcar racing” since most of the Best and Brightest are enlightened enough to respect what I do, if not enjoy it. But I saw a few of the comments here so I feel the need to reply, even if it’s a bit off-topic.
Regarding the “Difficulty” of my sport:
Oval track racing is no more or less difficult than any motorsport–it takes just as much skill, only a different KIND of skill. Michael Schumacher would make an ass of himself in a Top Fuel Dragster; Sebastian Loeb wouldn’t know how to pilot a Hydroracing Boat at all; and as we’ve seen, Dario Franchitti’s a bit lost in a stockcar. It’s all skill–just a different kind of skill.
The fact that we have 4 left turns (or at places like Phoenix or Pocano, 5) doesn’t make them any less difficult than 5 right turns and 3 left turns, or whatever. To call it easier or boring is to assume that the cars literally go in the corner, crank the steering wheel and just go through. That’s ignorant, and shows no appreciation for the technical aspects of motor racing.
Each corner of an oval is completely different and requires a different approach. Every oval is different from another (except for some of those lame 1.5 mile ovals)… Darlington is not Bristol, which is not Martinsville, which is not Daytona.
Driving an oval at, say, 8/10ths? Now that’s easy. Driving it by yourself at 8/10ths? Even easier. Like the story I told in the “ride of your life” post, most people think going at 8/10ths is scary fast, when they’re really driving around like grandma out there. It’s that last two tenths where the skill comes in, balancing a car with an ancient chassis and not NEARLY enough tire on a knife-edge for 500 laps, in 200 degree cockpit temperatures (a typical driver will lose 5 lbs in a race), against 42 others who are trying to beat you.
Stockcar drivers have amazing skill in terms of cardio (dealing with the temperatures), drafting, dealing with traffic, and dealing with tire management. Formula 1 drivers have amazing skill in terms of reflexes and athleticism, as well as hitting all the right points on a track. Rally racers have amazing skill in terms of car control and reflexes, as well as attention span. Drag racers have amazing skill in terms of dealing with huge amounts of horsepower without wrecking, and great reaction times.
All skill. Just different skill.
The “stock” in stockcar
Frankly I’m getting sick of this. Right NOW, the Car of Tomorrow is so far removed from stock that I actually have started saying it too–it has literally nothing in common with the street car. HOWEVER, the problem isn’t so much that they say “Toyota” or “Chevy” on the nose, it’s that they are marketed that way, as if they expect people to be fooled and follow the “buy on Monday” mantra. If they just stopped talking about Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Toyota and remained focused on the teams and drivers, this topic simply wouldn’t matter.
Stockcar racing hasn’t been about factory cars since about 1972, with the advent of the tube-frame chassis and the banning of the winged Mopars. It’s always been about the competition and the drivers first–if you wanna tack on a brand preference after that, go nuts. Very few of the fans in NASCAR are “Chevy fans” and therefore follow only Hendrick and RCR drivers. The majority are “Busch fans” and follow him from Chevy to Toyota, or “Martin fans” and follow him from Ford to Chevy. It’s just not that important. And I think maybe the manufacturers are finally starting to see that. I’m what some would call a “Chevy guy”, but when Mark Martin drove for Roush, I proudly wore a Valvoline/Ford jacket. Now that he’s driving for Carquest/Kelloggs/Chevy next year, I’ll be proudly wearing that instead.
In Dirt Late Model and Modified racing, the cars have “Chevy Camaro” and “Ford Fusion” or whatever written on the noses–and since they’re highly modified bodies, they don’t even give the PRETENSE of being those factory cars. And you know what? Not a single fan gives a damn, because the racing is awesome, and the cars are still Chevy or Ford powered.
The word “stockcar” is just used because, at least up until the Car of Tomorrow, they were loosely based on factory cars. That’s all. If you want to call them “silhouette cars” in your head to make yourself feel better, feel free.
If you want to see stockcars that are actually close to stock, again, go out to your local short track. My Super Stock Monte Carlo is a 1982 Monte Carlo, with the factory frame, most of the factory suspension, and the factory body. It has a 350 instead of a 305 and makes roughly twice the power, but I still think it qualifies as “factory.”
Or, better yet, your local 4 Cylinder class, where manufacturer vs manufacturer is alive and well. Ford has dominated 4 Cylinder racing for over a decade with the 2.3L Mustang–now that they’re getting harder to find, and the classes are open to FWD cars, the Mustang is seeing fierce competition, especially from Honda Accords and VW Jettas, as well as Cavaliers and Neons, and the odd 240SX. The rules keep the cars VERY VERY stock, and the racing is fantastic.
GO CHECK IT OUT. Supporting your local short track is entertaining, and way cheaper and easier than going to a big-league race anyway.
The closest thing these days to ideal factory racing won’t be found on an oval because the cars have evolved so much in terms of safety and affordable build costs that it’s become unfeasible.
It will instead be found in SPEED GT and Touring Car. Which I follow religiously. :)