Like us, Autocar has been paying close attention to the development of Toyota and Subaru’s forthcoming rear wheel-drive (RWD) coupe. The Brit pub says Subie’s working on the engine (two liter boxer) and chassis, while Toyota gets the interior right. And once again, this is not an Impreza replacement we’re talking about. Autocar quotes a Subaru rep as saying “this will be a smaller, lighter car with more niche appeal.” And the “smaller, lighter” ethos means there will not be turbocharged WRX or STI versions of the coupe– part of its rationale is passing Europe’s new, tougher emissions laws. Meanwhile, 7Tune has some rendered speculation on the looks of the wee beastie, while raising some concerns about the development process. Besides noting that Toyota is looking to answer its styling critics with the new design, 7Tune reports that “members of Toyota’s development team have admitted that the suspension from the Legacy is ‘weak and terrible’ but have endeavored to make some changes that will produce more sports car-like handling.” Still, the new coupe should provide plenty of opportunities for the tuning and aftermarket crowd, while also offering a light, fast, efficient coupe for the mass market. Still sounds good to us. You know; in theory.
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Pardon me, but doesn’t the Legacy handle better than pretty much anything Toyota makes?
Pardon me, but doesn’t the Legacy handle better than pretty much anything Toyota makes?
In North America, yes. Abroad? It’s probably case-by-case.
There’s also the issue of whether or not the suspension is mechanically robust, as opposed to well-performing. Subaru has taken some drubbing for making components that are comparatively fragile or maintenance intensive, at least by Toyota standards.
Legacies have a way of going through wheel bearings. And while they handle well for a family sedan, this isn’t good enough for a sports car. Hard to say if it’s the tuning or the basic design, though.
If this is RWD, is the engine shifted rearward? A sedan or five-door variant would be nice.
“[t]he suspension from the Legacy is ‘weak and terrible’” – That is awesome, usually only Germans can be that offensively honest.
tonycd: Toyota, until very recently, made the MR2 Spyder, which handled better than anything less than $40K and many cars more than $40K.
They still make the Lexus IS250/350, which I’m sure out handles a Legacy.
It shocks me that the one of the largest, most profitable automakers in the world has to bastardize parts from the Impreza/Legacy in an attempt to resurrect the ae86.
The width of the boxster engine has to make it difficult to push it back in the chassis for better weight distribution, and the Subaru rear ends were never designed for pure RWD.
Toyota should have just done this with their parts and engineering. The rear suspension from the IS would be good, and the 1.8 liter Toyota I4 engine would be good. The only difficulties would be attaching the 1.8 liter engine to a RWD transmission, and making the rest of the small rear wheel drive platform.
However, Toyota could get a lot of mileage out of a small RWD platform. It could resurrect the ae86, be the basis for an MX-5 fighter, and, with a turbo or higher tuning and a nicer interior, serve as a 1-series/A3 competitor under Lexus.
If Nissan can get the weight down enough they are going to win this round with the Silvia/240SX resurrection, and maybe even end up with the basis for a small Infiniti while they are at it.
I’m not sure about the standard Legacy fare, but the LegacyGT is like an Impreza wihout the head bob from the well over-damped (off-roadish capable) suspension and with a slightly longer wheelbase, making it less prone to snap oversteer during hamfisted maneuvering. I will say that I don’t have much knowledge of Toyota’s current suspension developments, but I don’t see how the Legacy would be ‘weak and terrible’ really, unless they mean the Outback. And then I’m not sure what they mean by weak. Wheel bearings: Under spirited driving those get eaten. No problem; borrow the (new since 2005) design from the STi that is a cartridge style replacement. No more $600 wheel bearing replacements and they’re sturdier to boot. LegacyGT only suffers from (IMO) slightly weak swaybars, which are very easily fixed. With that small adjustment, it’s a great car on the highways and byways that doesn’t suck when the turns get tighter. :)
(NOTE: I have autox’d and rallyx’d many Subaru Impreza and several Legacy suspension configurations ranging from 1997 model years to 2006 model years.)
7Tune is also speculating a sub 2700lb weight with ~200hp. Sounds like a fun combo. I’m sure stiffer springs and sways could tighten up the suspension and a plethora of aftermarket Subie turbo components could turn this into a track terror.
I wonder if this collaboration is why Subaru massively bumped up the power of the WRX & STi for 2009. Early reports at nasoic say sti (330hp’ish) at 0-60 in 4.4, wrx(280hp’ish?) 0-60 in 4.8
Perhaps Subaru doesn’t want this joint venture to be seen as competition for the WRX/STi ?
From the looks of the photo I looks like a baby Legacy, that would be so awesome if it keeps those clean looks in a smaller package. I really hope it doesn’t turn out like the ugly stuff Subaru and Toyota have been churning out lately, I would really like to get one.
Not sure where the Toyota boys get off saying the Legacy suspension is ‘weak and terrible’ they need to drive some of their Toyota’s to find out what terrible is. I love the handling of our LegacyGT, and after almost 50,000 miles we haven’t had any problems with the suspension, except for one wheel bearing which isn’t a suspension component that is an axle part. I wouldn’t mind it a tad stiffer but it’s a good compromise of comfort for my wife who drives it all the time and flat handling for myself who takes it out for fun.
2700lbs/200hp/RWD I can’t wait. Any info on transmission 5 or 6 speed, and balance. Sounds like a 21st century BMW 2002 that BMW couldn’t make.
I guess Toyota’s finally decided to free the sports car engineering team from their dungeons. Let’s hope they still remember what a sports car is.
It’s probably not turbo due to cost.
The legacy suspension is, admittedly, a bit squishy. Maybe it’s a mistranslation of something from Japanese?