Here’s a press release which assumes, I suppose, that I have at least one wife who qualifies as a minority. Actually, Sam’s an African American, originating as she does from the RSA. Anyway, AutoBrag.com‘s playing the “HERE’S A STARTLING SURVEY, BUT DON’T WORRY ABOUT OUR METHODOLOGY” PR game, and playing it well. And here’s how they did it! “We sent out 87 pairs of observations [sic] to compare how the best price difference between the White Males, verse [sic] White Females, Minority Males and Minority Females to 35 Southern California new car dealerships to keep track of how each pair with different race and gender only would be treated by the salesperson. The results are astonished. [sic] The race, gender, and car make affect the price American consumers pay for their new car significantly. And, again, the differences of the best price between different race and gender are even greater if one considers the long-term financing and opportunity costs throughout the lifetime of the new car purchase.” How’s that for statistical control? Does that fact they were all “college kids” influence your opinion? Those of you who wish to get a closer look at the race card in Autobraggadoccio Danny Chan’s hand can make the jump for the results.
“Statistically, White Females are given higher prices than White Males. Minority Males are given much higher prices than White Males. White Male Sellers charge higher prices than Minority Salespersons. The differences in savings become even higher when the shopper takes a loan and the compound interest and other costs are considered
“What does this mean? That traditional car dealerships continue to employ predatory sales tactics? Does the Internet help to change this old-school regime? The purpose of this study is to alert consumers to the fact that if they stepped onto the lot without negotiation then minority and women may be at a disadvantage of getting the best price.” So, at the end of it all, Chan wimps out. Figures.
Statistics is nothing more than a method to manipulate data to prove your point. First of all, was everything held constant in the study (dress, appearance, language, stated income, breast size, etc). Second, this can’t be applied across the country, SoCal is not representative of the mid-US by any means.
As the great philosopher Homer(Simpson) once said, everybody knows that 83% of statistics are made up.
How about this: An African American Sales Manager at a Honda dealer sees a young white guy come in looking for his first new car. The Sales Manager gets out a piece of paper, starts writing down figures all over about the purchase price, monthly payments, trade-in allowance, and more. Even throws in some bad helpful advice. “Wow!” This sounds like a great deal to the young white guy, so he signs all of the documents. Later he realizes that he overpaid, and not only that, that the trade-in allowance on the final paperwork was $1000 less then what he remembers was scribbled on that piece of paper that there is no copy of!
And that was me I’ll admit. It wasn’t because of race. I was just dumb/inexperienced and he knew it. Since then I have had others try the same tactics (and not when just buying cars either). I have just known better…
Did this “writer” pass sixth grade English? I think the writing style, such as it is, lack of proper grammer, and inability to spell or even spell check speaks volumes about how much credence should be given to this blog/article. On the plus side, this illustrates just how competent and accomplished the writers are on TTAC.
RF: you probably are African American, as are most Jews. According to an article that appeared in Science years ago, Jews are about 5-10% black. It was obvious looking at my mother.
Me thinks Autobrag’s researcher-extraordinaire-dude may have drafted one too many semis with the ignition turned off. (See RF’s earlier post re. Wired Mag’s How To guide).
It may not be a rigorous statistical exercise, but it fits with what I have seen in my contact with the car business; starting with hanging out at dealerships with my dad (John the Salesman) in the 1970s.
RUBBISH.
Arm yourself with invoice/current rebates/holdback information and you won’t get overcharged.
What 7th grade dope wrote that garbage? I don’t trust these asinine blogscreamers half the time anyway, but if you present the data with the style of a whippet-loving 13 year old, don’t expect anybody to take you seriously.
Autobrag – about anything other than your grammar I guess. Chan needs to work on getting the best English.
Yeah, all of my cool friends use that site for their research. Not. Gotta love the detailed “findings” from their “research”. I like how they were “given” certain prices. He never states what the differences were. Why bother to involve an Economics Dept and 87 pairs of something if you’re not going to give us the stats? And I bet their methodology was as sound as their grammar. More intensity!
Here’s a gem (not part of the minority stuff) from their website. “We want people never to be intimated again when they walk onto that showroom floor.” You can’t make this shit up.
So they send 87 people out and see what deals they get based on these parameters? I guess haggling the same wasn’t an option, or if it was how do you haggle the same salesman for the same car in the same dealership.
I know, let’s create a Federal Department of Fair Deals and enact a few Equal Fair Deal laws to raise prices for everyone so no one gets a good deal at another’s expense.
Flipping stupid.
Lumbergh21: If you’re going to insult someone’s writing skills, you have to make sure that you have no errors in your post.
It’s ‘grammar’ not ‘grammer’.
This is sloppy, sure, but the findings have been confirmed elsewhere. There was a Harvard law review article in the early 1990s–I can’t remember its author, or else I’d post a link–where they found that women got worse deals than men, and minorities got worse deals than whites.
I’d like to think things have changed since then, but I’m not sure how much faith I’d want to put in car salesmen…
@mpc220: You are right. These findings are old hat, but true. From my past work I know that women get a raw deal when buying a car, and when having it serviced.
…White Males, verse [sic] White Females…
This is one of my major grammar pet peeves. I hear this on television from supposed professional broadcasters.
By the way, the link just takes me to the AutoBrag home page – I can’t find any evidence of an article fitting this description.
Well that’s strange. I googled “hotties from South Africa” and my browser brought me back here.
Yeah. I was doing research too. Really.
Well, I’m not really surprised. It’s pretty well known that black Americans on average pay more for many goods and services, such as on insurance, bank loans, groceries, etc., than whites of a similar or equivalent income/economic level. Ever hear of the “black tax”? Redlining by banks?
On a ligher note, the late George Carlin noted a problem with the term African American – stating that it was possible for a bigoted, racist white South African to emigrate to the United States where he could, accurately, call himself an African American and piss off black people. Just kidding.
Revolver:
I’ll put my grammar and spelling up against his any day.
I’d like to see the data broken down between the only two categories that matter for car buyers: “Prepared” and “Clueless.” I’ll wager a bet that Prepared gets a hugely better deal than Clueless every cotton-pickin’ time, without regard to race, gender or ethnicity.
So this kid posted his sociology 101 paper online? And you guys are taking it seriously? Cripes, I’ve done “studies” like that myself – they are totally meaningless, except to go through the process and get a (ANY) result that you present in a short paper for a grade. Don’t even bother giving this kid the benefit of your scorn.
As others have written, this “report” is worthless, but that Harvard Law Review article (a taste of which can be found at islandia.law.yale.edu/ayers/fairdriv.htm) was a bit more rigorous.
Anecdotally, when my girlfriend was looking for a new car, we ended up leaving a Nissan dealership with her uttering the words, “what is this, some kind of vagina tax?”
When I lived in Germany, and was intimately involved with the car business (and was privvy to the incentives proffered to the propulsion pimping profession,) many a new car buying female enlisted my services. I bought the wheels on behalf of her. For me, that brought much better results than hanging out in singles bars.
@Christian: The chivalrous thing to do would have been to rescue the maiden from the chauvinistic car creep and act as if YOU would buy the car. Come signature, she’d show up.