This question is for all the manny-tranny folks out there, so if you prefer the slush (or DSG toggles) move along. Ahem. This week Volvo has lent me a C30 T5 to review for TTAC (and Honda dropped a new Fit in my lap, but that’s another story). Anyhow, I requested that the C30 have a standard transmission because the last “premium” small car I tested was a Mini Cooper Clubman S and the autobox just killed it. Not going to let that happen this time. The C30 does in fact have a 6-speed, and it’s great because on the highway the engine spins at less than 3,000 rpm. Volvo claims 28 mpg, which might be a bit low. However, 6th gear is at the same position (back and to the right) as reverse. I’ve driven with shifters laid out like this and no matter what, I simply cannot shift into top gear without the lingering fear that I’m going to pop into reverse at 70 mph. It vexes me. With a 5-speed manual, I just don’t have this phobia. And if I do accidentally tell the transmission to go backwards at the wrong time, well, that’s my idiot fault. But what if reverse is near first gear? That irks me, too. Why? because when parking in a tight spot I’ve mistakenly gone into 1st instead of reverse and banged into an innocent car. So, miles per gallon aside, I prefer 5-speeds.The great irony is, I actually prefer 4-speeds. I just love those long gears. And I’m weird. You?
Nope, I still prefer a close ratio six-speed. The manny-tranny in my Cooper S is left and up, with a solidly detented gate, so no mis-shift worries for me. The close ratio box keeps everything nice and revvy for quick bursts of passing, and it still returns 32-24mpg in sixth at 80mph.
My 74 Midget was 4-spd with reverse up to the left. You had to lift a ring under the shift knob with your index and middle finger to get in reverse. Didn’t have a synchro 1st gear either, broke a tooth off not long before it’s death. 1st was so short that you could start in 2nd with no problems. Man, I loved that car.
There’s nothing like snicking through a short 6-speed though.
My STi (05) is a 6 speed manual. You have to pull up a ring while shifting to go into reverse, and it seems to open some sort of gate which allows it to travel further right and notches in next to 6. It has a solid feel. I’ve never accidently shifted into 6 instead of R or R into 6.
My 09 Fit could use a 6th gear — seems it could easily pull one more gear on the freeway for a bit better MPG. Not critical at all, just would be a pleasant addition.
That said, I’ve driven a 6-speed Mini Cooper and it was perfectly logical to shift with reverse well protected up and to the left. My Bugeye Sprite is a 4-speed and very nice to shift too.
I guess I’ll take any manual, any number of gears. No difference to me other than the practical aspects of better MPG in some setups.
The C30 has to have the worst 6spd gate configuration known to man. I was immediately turned off the car (which I really liked before) after finding out that shifter setup. Terrible setup!
I think VW has the best reverse setup. Push down and shift to the first position. The MINI isn’t bad because it takes considerable force to get the shifter over into the R position.
I really wish our LegacyGT had a 6 speed, mostly for highway cruising. The gearing feels short in that car like they just left out the 6th gear. I have found myself a few times trying to shift into 6th when I didn’t have one and then stopped myself before I got into the reverse gate.
I just wish we had sequential gearing in cars already, 5, 6 or 7 gears there is no need for this H crap already.
The Volvo in the picture looks just like my dads. That only had a 4 speed with electronic overdrive that barely work toward the end of its life. My boss has 4 of them in various stages of restoration.
Six seems to be the standard nowadays–after all, there were Japanese econoboxes that offered fives back in the 70s. And I thought most every manual has some sort of lockout/pushdown feature that prevents inadvertent reverse engagement.
I wish my old 1st gen Rabbit GTI had a 6th gear….the close ratio five was a joy, but 3000 rpm at 55 mph was a bit buzzy at times.
That said, I’ve been mildly intrigued by the occasional car with a five speed where 1st gear was on its own dogleg, outside of the basic H pattern. I think this was referred to as a racing pattern, so that you could shift back and forth more readily between top gear (5th) and the next lower down for passing etc. Anybody have a beast like that, and what are they like for regular street driving?
my M coupe is a 5-speed and I wish it had a 6th for highway cruising. the reverse is left and forward, but it’s an extra effort to get it there, and you wouldn’t mix it up with 1st.
never had a problem with my 07 GTI. push down, and then up and left.
Back and to the right is really strange, it should be a straight drop down from 5th.
There is no excuse for anyone still making a 5 speed. It makes me sick when the automatic version of a car gets better MPG numbers than the manual version. Even GM has been offering 6-speeds since the ’89 Corvette.
In my G35 I never worried that I was going to go into reverse, if I wanted 6th I just dropped straight down from 5th. Going into reverse required pushing the stick down and far over to the right.
When I owned the G35 I would actually end up trying to go into 6th in my girlfriend’s 5-speed car (with reverse under 5th). By the way, it’s not possible to go into reverse at speed; I know that both from my own experience and from Myth Busters. There is a grinding noise and you get yelled at – that’s all that happens. Once you get used to a particular transmission you’re not going to go into the wrong gear. Well, maybe with the goofy Volvo gate, but not in a normal car.
Nissan deserves a lot of credit for offering proper 6-speeds all the way down to the Versa, hopefully Honda will follow that lead soon and Mazda will stop making the 6-speed optional on the MX-5.
My Rubicon is equipped with a Daimler 6-speed. When I test drove it and on a few of my first drives, I was used to 4 and 5-speeds and I too shared the apprehension of inadvertently reversing. That feeling passed as soon as I got a feel for the Jeep and I just don’t think about it any more. You’ll probably feel the same after a day in the Volvo. I honestly don’t care much when it comes to 5 vs 6 gears, but 3 and 4 speeds are a little long for my tastes.
When did they start putting 6-speeds in them? My sister drives a 2006 or 2007 S-40 and it has a 5-speed.
Bill H: That shift pattern actually makes a huge amount of sense to me. To the best of my recollection, I’ve never driven any car in any situation where I used first once I’d started moving. Being able to more rapidly switch between the four gears I actually use seems like a brilliant way to set things up.
Your worry should not be one.
All the cars I know about have a lockout on that reverse that will not allow you to slide it over into reverse shifting from 5th to 6th. In addition, I know my old Miata would not allow you to pull it out of 5th and straight into reverse….you had to go to neutral first (as in all hands off the stick neutral) then to reverse.
I always found it easiest to go 5th to 6th by putting my palm on the left side of the gear lever and pushing right/down. Never a problem that way. Plus, Its always fun to pop up to 5th if you need a little more oomph.
I’m curious about your take on the Volvo. I NEARLY bought that car over my GTI, but there was just something not quite right about it, and in my research it seemed the MPG ratings on the sticker were much higher than real-world (whereas I heard plenty of GTI’s getting a few MPG better than their stickers). I thought it was a very cool car, and I loved the comfort, but something wasn’t quite there with it. Though I gotta say I kinda wish I had those seats in my GTI….despite the fact they don’t hold you in place AT ALL. They are to die for comfy.
And as far as slush or DSG…I got the DSG in the GTI mainly because VW clutches are TERRIBLE (throw way too long, making it terrible in traffic, and screwing up your seating position). It is great for what it is, and its fun to see how fast it rips off shifts and rev matches on downshifts….but I already know when I finally do replace it that my next car will be back to a true manual. There is just something so much more fun about a stick, that way outweighs using it in traffic. Something about the perfect rev-matched downshift into a corner, or ripping through the gears on a freeway onramp, man just talking about it kinda makes me wish I still had the Miata for a fun run….
But I like 6 speeds. When they’re done so that 6th is a great, low-rpm highway gear. Not like the new Miata where the 6th is like the old 5th and they tighten up the spacing on the rest of the gears. Totally worthless when each gear barely drops the RPM….
And based on your fears, I’d suspect you’re a big fan of SAAB manuals, eh? :)
Okay, folks. I’d like to know more about this from a DRIVING point of view. I have a 3-speed (’36 Chevy truck) and a 5-speed (’01 Saab wagon). I have had several 4-speeds and other 5’s.
I remember getting used to my first 5-speed, an ’87 Jetta GLI, and I thought it was a lot of shifting compared with a 4. But now I’d never go back to 4. The GTI was a close box, comfy in 5th at 30 mph, turning 2k before 40. The current SAAB is much taller, turning 2k around 55 mph, and lugging in 5th below about 42 mph.
To heck with the details of moving the lever – 2 days with the new car and you’ve got that down – do I want another gear? I have yet to drive a 6-speed, though the SAAB’s tall ratios suggest that I’d like it.
Or not???
I prefer 6 over 5, but 5 is not a deal-breaker.
I like my GTI’s 6-speed setup as well, push down, then move left, then up. Also, my Cooper S had the same configuration, but w/o the push down part, just move left HARD.
To add to what Quentin said, I’ve sat in the C30 with stick a couple times, and those gears are physically so close to each other in the gearshift that it was near impossible to not shift into reverse! 4th, 6th and R are so close it’s anyone’s guess which one you’ll end up in.
I too was really taking a look at the C30 when considering my next car, but the much more usable interior room (5-seater, bigger hatch), better fuel economy, and shifter setup was what tilted my choice to the GTI.
Most of the cars I lust after have six-speeds. Except the 2010 Mustang, for some ungodly reason. Perhaps Ford is saving a six-speed for when they drop the 5.0 in there…
Five gears is just right. Any more than that means you’ve built a peaky engine with a powerband so narrow you need all of those tightly spaced gears just to keep it in that sweet spot.
For a regular econombox, like a Corolla or similar, there’s really no reason for a 6-speed transmission. A 5-speed with overdrive 5th is really more than adequate.
My Chevvies had 4-speeds with latches to keep you out of reverse (which was to the left of 1st). The VW 5-speed (reverse below 5th) required you to shove the shifter down. That sort of lockout with a 6-speed would probably work OK for me.
My latest stickshift, a Toyota, has reverse below 5th and there’s no lockout… At first, I was concerned that I might engage reverse by accident on the road when downshifting from 5th to 4th but, somehow, that’s just never happened. The transmission seems designed to discourage that. I just turn my hand so that my palm faces appropriately and the right things happen.
The more gears the better… The Toyota has a relatively low top gear. I’d like a 6th that cut RPMs by another 20 or 30%. But it’s not a sports car, so simply changing the ratio of 5th in this car would probably work just as well for me.
I think 6 gears is just right. My E36 M3 has 5 gears with 5th being 1:1, which is great, but it really could use an overdrive for highway cruising. I loved the 6 speed in my Audi TT. Reverse was a push down on the shift knob and then up and to the left. Why would anyone design a reverse gear that could be mistaken with 6th??
Bad knees here. I’ll stick with anything automatic.
A 5-speed with overdrive 5th is really more than adequate.
Why is it that every Japanese car seems to have an insufficiently-tall top gear. I bought a manual, I know I’m going to have to shift, why give me a fifth gear that I can still pass with?
Why, in god’s name, is my Fit doing over 3000rpm, when my four-speed automatic Saab is doing 2200 at the same speed.
I drive a 5-Speed Miata and a 6-Speed TSX. I prefer the six speed in the TSX, not only because it feels so great, but the higher sixth gear drops the revs nicely on the highway.
BTW… I have accidentally tried to shift into 6th on the Miata only to be embarrassed and startled when the gears ground.
sorry if this is a repeat comment but I believe Mythbusters did a segment on this and found it impossible to physically shift into reverse while driving at hwy speeds. Furthermore, any carmaker worth their salt has fail-safe mechanisms in place (i.e. it won’t let you get into R while traveling over a certain velocity.)
Pull the Miata out of 5th straight into reverse. You should NOT be able to do it.
Owners manual says there is a lock out. I’ve tried it. It works. You must go to mid neutral first (neutral between 3rd and 4th) to be able to engage reverse.
If not, something is wrong with your miata :)
I prefer a 6 speed, and that’s what I have in my BMW 540i. My reverse gear is to the up and left, directly left of first gear, so there is no fear that I’ll put it into reverse when highway cruising, though the possibility of mistake is still there.
I definitely prefer having a sixth speed because it really drops the revs down really low for cruising at anywhere from 40 mph on, and can get me up to 26 mpg on the highway from my big Bimmer V8. Very nice.
So long as it has a clutch, I am happy either way.
Jerome10: Saab = smart.
Er, old Saab.
And yeah, of course, I drive a ton of different cars — I’m 100% familiar with my WRX’s shifter.
Everything else seems… weird
And every other clutch seems light!
For me, five speeds is perfect and six is a waste, assuming any decent torque curve. I have a Volvo 1800ES and use the overdrive function routinely for highway speed cruising.
The only way six speeds make sense to me is if you have access to Autobahn like roads to really stretch the car’s legs. But for US purposes, five is perfect with typical 1.5-2.5l modern four cylinder engines.
I have a very slight preference for a six speed, but how well the gear ratios match the engine an the car is far more important than how many gears it has. The ideal setup would be a 5 speed transmission, with a tall 6th gear.
The feel of the shifter, how positively it engages, and the feel of the clutch are also more important than the number of gears. This makes it easier to make better use of a limited number of gears, and makes shifting more fun when there are six gears to shift through.
I like any manual shift, no matter how many cogs there are two swap.
But my question about the C30 is the rumored availability of a turbo-Diesel engine option… any truth to that? They get them in Canada, so maybe I’ll have to sneak over the BC border and snag one there.
I had a Diesel Volvo when I lived in Europe – a 440td. What a great car! 45 MPG around town and quite fun to drive.
–chuck
@Bill H: That said, I’ve been mildly intrigued by the occasional car with a five speed where 1st gear was on its own dogleg, outside of the basic H pattern. I think this was referred to as a racing pattern, so that you could shift back and forth more readily between top gear (5th) and the next lower down for passing etc. Anybody have a beast like that, and what are they like for regular street driving?
As Optic indicated with his M coupe, I had this in a ’79 euro 635 CSi and it is called a racing pattern. 1st was left and back, leaving 2-5 in the standard H. R was dogleg left then up, and you had to push down on the top of the stick to get there. Two reasons for this layout: 1) you only use 1st to get the car rolling, leaving the gears you use most closer to one another and 2) it avoids any chance of a disastrous 5-to-R shift like Johnny described in his article.
To answer the rest of your question, it was great for street driving. Obviously, you have to use 1st more often that in a race, but still very intuitive. Just make sure to tell the valet.
P.S. To answer the rest of your question, it was great for street driving. Obviously, you have to use 1st more often that in a race, but still very intuitive. Just make sure to tell the valet.
Hmm. My 1962 Studebaker Hawk has a Borg-Warner T-10 factory 4-spd. Reverse is far left and foreward, but its so far left you can’t accidentally hit reverse when you mean for first gear. Now its got a Hurst shift kit in it, and you really have to pull towards yourself for reverse.
I had an 05 Legacy 2.5GT with the five speed. Linkage was clunky; I can’t recall how many times the stupid thing would not go in reverse. It was so recalcitrant when I wanted to go into reverse it would never have hit it by accident, though it was a five speed.
My Mazda3 (current car – long story) is also a five speed and goes into reverse just fine. But doing 3 grand at 70 mph is annoying – and detrimental to highway mileage. I’d prefer a sixth gear for highway cruising.
Here is a question, speaking of old school: what happened to dash engaged overdrives? My brother has a 63 Lark Wagonaire withe 3spd (H on the column baby!) overdrive -works great and good highway mileage.
I’ll take 6. How can you not like more options? It’s not like you can’t skip shift or ignore 6th if you don’t like having extra gears. I’d prefer a closer ratio 6 speed to the 5 speed in my Mazda3, with the same first and last gear. If they made top gear a little taller in the process, even better.
Don’t worry Jonny, you’d never be able to engage reverse while moving forward. You’d just get the hand buzzer signal that you’re trying to do something wrong.
Five gears is just right. Any more than that means you’ve built a peaky engine with a powerband so narrow you need all of those tightly spaced gears just to keep it in that sweet spot.
Like with those peaky engines in Corvettes and Vipers and Ferraris and Cummins-equipped Dodge 3500s and, huh?
The BMW 5-speed ZF manual transmission of the 1990s had a synchronized reverse, so you could indeed shift into revers when traveling forward (or backward) without grinding. I don’t know if there was an additional lockout if you were traveling faster than a certain speed because I decided not to test that feature!
While we’re on the top of transmissions, I have a gripe and was hoping someone could add some soothing words of wisdom. I recently test drove the Audi A3 and (previous) A4 and was kind of annoyed by the spacing of the gears. Down low (1, 2, 3) the A3 felt about right but the A4 had a huge (80%) gap between 1 and 2. Up high, both cars had tiny gaps between 4, 5, and 6. The A3 also just wasn’t tall enough for quiet, efficient highway cruising.
In my mind, for a road car, I don’t see the point of having the gear ratio between 5 and 6 be only 10% or 15%. By the time I’m through 3rd gear I’m finished with accelerating and so all subsequent shifting is just for better mileage and quieter operation. It’s not like I’m ever going to shift from 5 to 6 at redline as quickly as possible. It seems that the low gears, which I actually do want to shift quickly, are the ones that should be closer together; let the ratios of 4, 5, and 6 be at least 25% apart. I felt that with either Audi I would never use 5th gear; just go directly from 4th to 6th.
I agree with the person who mentioned the Miata has ratios that are too close. I tried one out and found the need to change gears too often and at the wrong times.
I would take my Mazda3 with an extra cog for the highway while leaving the rest of the gears alone.
I don’t think five speeds are necessarily deficient. The big problems, to me, tend to be either:
– Too-short top gear ratio (@ the duke: if you think the 3 is too short, you should try a Prelude, Integra, RSX or S2000 — 18 mph/1000 rpm is just silly)
– Annoying gaps between ratios, particularly between 1st and 2nd. A lot of modern cars have a huge gap between those gears, and at low speeds, it leaves you with a choice of droning away noisily in first or lugging in second.
The BMW 5-speed ZF manual transmission of the 1990s had a synchronized reverse, so you could indeed shift into revers when traveling forward (or backward) without grinding.
Of course, you’d probably have to really ham-fisted to be able to ram it into gear at that point!
You get to Reverse in the S2000 by pushing down on the shifter, then moving into what you hope isn’t 6th. On the 5-speeds I’ve driven where Reverse was below 5th, the reverse position itself seemed to be a bit farther back and right than a 6th in that position would have been. The “racing” pattern where 2nd and 3rd are stacked also helps to prevent the accidental 5th-2nd shift (aka the Money Shift).
The strangest thing I’ve seen lately is the manual Aveo, which has a lift ring to engage the R position up and left by itself- a typical 6-speed setup, but the Aveo doesn’t have that 6th gear in the lower right corner. If you want something really odd, drive an old Ford tractor. The shifter has to be lifted *vertically* and rotated to select from three stories of gears.
my 67 Camaro has a 2 speed
works just fine
:- )
I agree with the worry about banging reverse, which was at front of my mind while driving my friend’s 06 Corvette. Maybe R is locked out, but it makes me nervous.
And I agree with not placing R near 1 for parking situations.
What ever happened to the trigger lockout for reverse?
4 on the floor is OK, but 5 does provide better spacing. I don’t think 6 gets you much more.
My 05 xB could use longer gearing for the highway, but its short gearing is the secret to the 31 MPG it gets in the city.
Hey Indi500, my 68 camaro had the three-speed MANUAL transmission. The two-speed powerglide was sans clutch. But LIEBERMAN- you would love it. Nothing like having to do nothing after 28 MPH (Well, for nostagia anyway…) Some were even available with the three-speed shifter on the column. You haven’t lived till you tried that.
My first two cars were early ’90s 4-spd manual bottom-end Japanese cars. Then I jumped to a 6-speed Miata. I’m pretty sure I would prefer a 5-speed, if they made 5th gear tall enough (is tall the right word?). Six is kind of a lot because of the 4th ‘column’, and the (outsourced) 6-speed unit in previous-gen Miatas was garbage compared to the Mazda-designed 5-speed.
I had an RX-8 to use for a week four years ago. The top gears were so close together it seemed a waste. I thought they should have had a really long 6th to improve the abysmal highway mileage (loved the car though)
Anyone drive an old Mercedes (or any other make) with a column manual? I was in one as a kid and have been wanting to find one for a drive just for kicks.
Jerome10
It’s 2008 Miata Sport with the 5 speed. I had only had it about a week at that point and was used to the six speed in the Acura. I was pulling onto the Palisades Parkway and went through the gears and instinctively went to drop it into 6th when the gears ground.
It’s possible I went from 3rd or 4th gear to 6th, and maybe that’s why it let me in, or it could be broken. Either way, I’m not going to try it again. I make a conscious effort to remember which car I’m driving now. ;)
If I ever own a 6-speed I’ll let you know.
They get them in Canada, so maybe I’ll have to sneak over the BC border and snag one there.
A diesel C30? In Canada? Schwaa?
…checks volvocars.ca…
Nope, at least not that I’ve seen. All they sell is the 2.4L inline five, blown and unblown. I wouldn’t blame you if you heard a five and thought it sounded like a modern diesel.
There are 3 diesel choices available in Europe, and I think the D5 is turbo. I would love to have that or the 2.0D in mine. The T5 is great but I would have liked a diesel.
The Euro Spec E30(1982-1991) had such a transmission availible on the M3 and 325i Sport(A Close-Ratio Getrag 260. 5th is 1:1). I drove a German spec 325i Sport, and found it to be far superior to my standard(Overdrive) Getrag 5 speed. It does not take very much getting used to, and It’s a joy to drive. I wish my car had it.
My Saab 9-3 Aero has a great, light action 6-speed. With a little lift ring for reverse. And despite my best (unintentional efforts), I have yet to screw it up.
4, 5, 6 speeds, I don’t mind either way. If the gearbox is a joy to operate, why me worry?
In my car you have to press down very firmly on the shifter, then back and left (next to 6) to slip into reverse. Going into 6th is already a fairly concerted effort so accidental shifts are unlikely. Other cars have a pull-up ring. Those are nice too. There are even 5-speed and 6-speed BMWs that place reverse to the left of 1
6.
Of course, I prefer manual transmissions. But whether it’s five or six speeds depends on how torquey the powerplant is and the final drive ratio. I have enjoyed both. Heck, I’ve even enjoyed three-on-the-tree in a great old pick-up truck with a venerable inline six cylinder. But I would imagine I’d opt for six speeds with any engine that’s fun to rev to the moon.
RE: Chevrolet Aveo – European-style, by way of Korea. Most Korean shifters emulate European shifters by having reverse up and to the left (IMHO, a more natural position for it)… but Korean shifters have a pull-ring instead of the “push-down” mechanism.
I’m kind of split on 6-speeds. It really depends on the quality of the shifter and the spacing of the throws. Most Honda 6-speeds (reverse to the right) I’ve driven have gates that are way too narrow… making it easy to shift into the wrong gear. The MX-5 has a superfluity of closely-stacked ratios… and some of the MX-5 fraternity are of the opinion that the five-speed stick is superior (I agree). The Focus 6-speed is perfect in spacing and action (short, spacing like a 5-speeds, mechanical), but it’s still easy to get flummoxed by it.
I think the perfect box is still a 5-gear box with a dogleg 1st gear. Anything over 5th gear is just dead weight. Wanna save money on gas? Slow down.
Had a Sentra SE-R Spec V, with a six-speed; Reverse was back and to the right, just like 6th, and I never got rid of that lingering fear you describe, even went down the gate a couple of times (but caught my mistake.) For such a powerful car, it always seemed like overkill.
Now I have a Versa SL, with a six-speed; Reverse is up and to the left, just like first, but with a collar lockout that needs to be pulled up to go into the reverse gate. No fear, no stress, and with short gearing being the only thing keeping it moving (80mph is under 4,000, but not by much) I wouldn’t have bought it with a five-speed.
So it depends on the car, and on the shift arrangement.
I’m struggling to understand the question. Asking how many gears you prefer kind of misses the point of what the gearbox does.
The answer is that a vehicle should have an appropriate gearing for its purpose and torque characteristic of it’s engine. A Kenworth truck might have upwards of eighteen ratios whilst a Steam-Roller might have two.
Some cars might need an extra ratio eg a Mini whos infernal din from the idler gear was enough to drive a person insane when on motorways.
That said, I am quite fond of the electric overdrive unit fitted to MGBs and Jags.
Actually much of this discussion shows why the shift patterns should be standardized, as automatic transmission shift patterns were decades ago. PRNDSL became the standard, for good reasons.
As I’ve written before, (creating much negative response!) most of this discussion underscores some of the reasons why cars should have automatic transmissions. Gear selection is too important to leave to a driver entrusted with navigaitng a 3000 pound projectile.
Bob
There’s just something… RIGHT… about a 4-speed behind a nice torquey V8. The gear spread in most factory 4-speeds was just right, and that’s why it’s still used in racing today, quite often.
But I’ll take the T-56 for daily driving thank you–double overdrive, 30 mpg with a 350 hp V8 ftw.
The first gen Corolla XRS has a six speed, but reverse is about two inches left of first gear. It also has an annoying beep whenever you shift it past first into reverse to act as a warning.
6FTW
Reverse is so unmistakably out of the way of the other 6 in my car its not a problem.
I can burble along at 60@1500rpm and get 27mpg.
or
Hoon it to 2500rmm/19mpg… and 100mph.
Not bad for 410rwhp, IMHO.
On my TR you had to lift the stick for reverse, The alfa you had to push down, the rabbit you had to push over against a spring. So Reverse should be a problem. I test drove an 01 Miata and 6th was tight enough that you’d go back into 4th rather than from 5th to 6th.
5 seems enough but in the Miata the high revs make me want a 7th. But alas I’ve become a wuss and like the ability to go automatic, I KNOW THAT MAKES IT A NON SPORTS CAR to some but since this car is filling the function as a daily driver and toy it’s something I chose to do. That said next time 6 speed manual and just use my partner’s Forester for the commute.
1) you probably drove the only 6 speed C30 available in US. I asked to test drive one with 3 dealers and left business cards to call when one becomes available, no dice.
2) I’ve been driving 6 speed for 2.5 years now and got used to it to a point that when I winding engine enough in 4th I shift into 6th, ditto 3 to 5.
3) Fear of shifting into reverse instead of 6th or 1st goes away with usage. There is usually some aid to guide on the stick and movement of shifter.
4) The major advantage of 5 speed over 4 I think was noise elimination. If you look at mpg rating on very same C30, you’ll find that it is the same for slashbox and 6 speed. 5 speed slashbox is NOT overdrive! 6 speed is “overdriven” from 4th on.
The torque band on my 6-speed LS2 GTO is so massive that I rarely use 2nd, and often skip 4th or 5th (the car is capable of starting from a dead stop in 4th!).
That being said, the T-A-L-L overdrive 6th gear is awesome for MPG (24+ hwy). At 80 MPH, the engine is turning a bit less than 2k. Compare that to 3800 at the same speed in my old Cabriolet 5-speed!
The Cabby had 4 gates above neutral (1-3-5-R) which I thought was strange as only 2nd and 4th were below neutral. Had no trouble with Reverse, but finding 3rd could be a devil sometimes.
No trouble with any of the gears in the Goat, including Reverse. You have to shove it pretty far to the right to engage it. Can’t mistake it for 5th at all!
The biggest consideration is the width of the engine’s power band. You need enough ratios to stay within the power band yet keep the revs down on the highway. Modern engines tend to have very broad, flat power curves. Therefore, I think six speeds have more to do with image than with engineering.
I’ve had both and I say 6.
Syncros are overrated.
I like my manuals with 10 gears at a minimum, but I prefer a 13 or 18 speed with a Hi-Lo splitter for pulling hills at gross.
But that’s the bizarro parallel universe of Class 8.
I agree that the the Fit could use a 6th gear to drop the RPMs at Highway speeds.
Depends on the shift action – I hate tight H groupings where you have to learn how to minutely flick your wrist to get the correct gear, otherwise you go from 2nd to 5th all the time. Throw in a rubbery shift feel where you can’t feel the lever snick into place and it’s maddening. The BMW M coupe is like that, the old Corrola XRS (the fantastic 1.8L Yamaha/Toyota/Lotus engined model, a car lost to the trend of fattening up small cars) was the same, with a tiny shift gate and short throws that demanded your attention to get right. Most 6s have that problem because they are cramming a 6 speed action into the same space as 5 speed gate. But it the pattern is reasonable I don’t really care – honestly 6th is just overdrive for highway cruising so I don’t often use it when it is available.
PS BMW has an good idea for reverse on a 6 – it’s dogleg to the left, and you have to push down on the shifter to engage it.
I’ve had three sticks. I’ve driven both 5’s and 6’s, and really enjoyed driving them all. It’s one thing that I do miss having…but it’s also nice having NO transmission at all in my Prius.
Either one, 5 or 6, was good…and fun to drive, but the Corvette’s 6th gear was really a fuel saver on the freeway.
I didn’t like the Corvette’s 3rd gear “skip” thingie, though. It was unnerving to be forced into 4th gear at unexpected times, and I never really understood why they did that.
I never really understood why they did that.
To gain a few precious EPA mileage credits…
Being Gen-X as I truly am, driving in the 80’s meant my first car (Scirocco) had a 5 speed, as were the three that followed (Prelude, Probe GT, Prelude), and the only six speed has been my current TSX.
I was happy with the transmissions in all of them. The shift quality of the 98 Prelude was especially nice, but that car also had a higher ratio 5th gear. All the previous cars would be under 3K at 80mph, but the 98 Prelude would tach right at 4K at the same speed.
When I got the TSX, I was hoping to see a return to more relaxed cruising, but not so fast. 70mph is 3K, and 80 is just below 4K. As such, an mileage benefits are truly dependent on my right foot. Still, I get high 20’s doing those speeds.
Using six gears took some getting use to after 20 years of five speeds. However, the clutch and gearbox in the TSX is one of the sweetest combinations around, so I have become comfortable with all six. I have had none of the “will I hit reverse?” puckers that others here have felt.
It is such now that I would say I prefer six speeds over five.
I learned to drive stick on a six-speed (well, learned to drive it properly, anyway), so that’s my bias. Besides, more gears = more fun, right? Sixth, if it’s tall enough, makes a nice freeway cruising gear, and a 6-5 downshift to pass is a lot easier and quicker than a 5-4.
I’m in the process of buying a first-generation, five-speed Miata and, similarly to Jonny, had a minor concern about shifting into reverse – but my concern was that it would be instinctive, intending sixth but hitting reverse. Nice to know that’s not supposed to be possible, though!
My 1st gen CR-V would do well to have 6th gear, just leave the other gears the same and give me a 400-500 rpm in 6th gear for the interstate.
I’ve owned two 3-speeds. In my ’49 Chevy pickup it was okay up to 50 mph or so. In my’66 Mustang it was irritating. With the 120HP 200 6 cylinder there were occasions when it did not have enough oomph to go from 2nd to 3rd. Traveling TN mountain roads I would have welcomed more ratios to choose from climbing the hills and more to shift down into coming down the hills.
My VW Cabrio is pretty good all around. I really prefer the lockout on the reverse also found in all of my old aircooled VWs too (which all needed lower revs on the hwy despite the fact they needed them for power and cooling).
First, let me say, that for the most part, as long as its a manual I’m happy. BUT, having had the experience of driving a 95 VW Jetta with the 5 speed they were using at the time, which used the push down and forward technique, and getting to compare that to my parents 04 Passat 5 speed, which uses the back and right method; i do like the Jetta configuration more. It became even more clear when I got my 06 Mazdaspeed6 with the 6 speed manual, which uses the push down and forward, like the Jetta, but with the sixth gear. I hate driving the Passat now, because I’m always afraid i will forget which car I’m in and go for 6th gear doing 60 on the highway.
I’ve never owned a car new enough for the 6-speed to be an option so I’m going to go with 5 over 4 or anything more than 3. 3 on the tree is horrible to drive, and three on the floor not much better. The 901 box in my ’72 914 is fun with the dog-leg 1st gear, but it would be a lot more fun if it didn’t have tractor-length throws and 1st so horribly synchornized that from a standstill at idle she grinds into 1st. Probably the best shifter in my life is the one on my ’74 Beetle, which always snicks right into gear and has reverse below second by way of pushing the gear lever down in neutral. These things are bullet proof and third gear is right in the vicinity of my female passenger’s thigh.