I remember wheeling into a parking lot and slotting next to a Porsche Carrera 4 in my Porsche Carrera 4. “What do you think of the car?” I asked. “It makes me a hero,” the owner replied. True dat. A driver of no particular skill can corner a C4 (or Turbo) at speeds normally reserved for people for whom the words “it seems a bit skittish on the edge” are not synonmous with “Holy shit, I am NEVER doing THAT again!” And then I bought a Boxster S. While the Boxster is not as fast as a Carrera (by any real world metric), it’s more fun at the kind of speeds that still endanger your license, but don’t require an actual jail stay. But I didn’t buy a Boxster for many years– until Porsche finally put the 3.4 amidships. It may be more fun driving a slow car fast than a fast car slow, but if you can drive a fast car that’s fun to drive slowly, well, isn’t that the ideal? In other words, which of these beauties would you prefer, assuming you’d use them on both road and track? And what’s you general rule in this regard?
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I’d grow a beard, get a tweed jacket with leather patches on the elbows, maybe invest in a good watch, start smoking a pipe, and haul ass around my neighborhood in the 73 RS.
Driving a slow car fast may be a form of devil-may-care entertainment, but it seems so high school to me.
I’d much rather drive a fast car slow. Everyone knows that it’s a fast car, so what do I have to prove? I personally think it looks much cooler than needlessly ripping up the roads, and when necessary can still be called upon to defend the family honour.
Didn’t anyone else learn from the driver’s ed text book Power Under Control?
I would love both those cars. While I’d probably get the new one, I do like older cars with no driving aids that are just raw sports cars. But I wouldn’t call the 73 a “slow” car by any means. A slow car would be the elantra I drove for a bit. And I never want to drive one of those POSes again. So I’m going with fast car fast.
We have a similar argument in regards to motorcycles. And I don’t have a good answer, because it depends entirely on the machine.
I ride a 97 Ducati 916. By modern standards, it is slow for a near-1000 sportbike. It has a whoppin’ 114hp (claimed) and tops out around 155mph on a good day. Acceleration in the first few gears is sparkling but tapers off after 100mph. But the whole thing is built to feel like a race bike with lights, and gives you so much feedback (not to mention pure handling prowess once you get used to the slow steering) that it inspires a lot of confidence. I’ve ridden near-200 hp litrebikes that weigh 50+ pounds less than my 916, and while they are damned fun, I never feel in control and they all seem surgically violent – controllable, but with a very fine limit you do not want to cross but can with a tiny flick of the wrist at the wrong moment. They do not inspire confidence in me, I always feel like I’m one millisecond away from having my limbs torn off should I sneeze and blip the throttle at the wrong time.
But then I’ve ridden my father’s 1973 BMW R75/5. Here, my preference for slow bikes is pushed to the limit. This is a machine that is lucky to hit 60 in under 8 seconds, and has brakes (rather, a lack thereof) that would scare the whimpering crap out of a seasoned sport bike rider (ie, me). Flogging something so antiquated and econobox slow makes me really appreciate the fine dynamics and more-than-adequate power of my 916.
Slow _ fast or fast _ slow or fast _ fast? Couldn’t tell you. Depends on what we’re comparing.
(I’d take the RS because the GT2 is, in my mind, a poseur mobile or a cock-car)
I’d much rather drive a fast car slow. Everyone knows that it’s a fast car, so what do I have to prove? I personally think it looks much cooler than needlessly ripping up the roads.…
Isn’t that the same argument you hear all the time about owning a BOF SUV that never sees dirt? If one buys a fast car just to go slow, why did you bother in the first place? Who cares if everybody “knows” its fast? Stealth is way more fun anyway. Blowing the doors off of a “hey look at me car” with something with pedestrian looks (think Taurus SHO) is a thrill in and of itself. You save a bunch in insurance rates and police attention to boot.
“There is great joy to be found driving a slow car fast.”
The wise man who said that was referring to little British roadsters of the 50s and 60s. Small, lightweight, and powered by diminutive tractor engines with less than 100hp. Something you could four-wheel drift at 35 MPH. Having driven a few of those in my time I have to agree with him. They far exceed their weight in pure driving enjoyment. It is a shame that those sorts of cars are no longer built.
I don’t understand owning a car capable of 250 MPH if you’ll never, ever exceed even 50% of that capability with the possible exception of a few seconds on some lonely strip of asphalt. Why bother?
–chuck
Depends on what the cars are.
If the slow car has better balance, then there’s definitely a case, as you can appreciate balance at any speed. Cases:
* Would I rather drive an Impala SS or Mercury Marauder than a Mazda Miata? Does the Pope shit in the woods?
* Just because the Camry SE V6 can dispatch Ferraris from not very long ago, does that make it more fun?
Also, there’s not a lot of real joy in a fast car that you can’t ever drive fast. It’d be like living with a chastity-belt-equipped supermodel (orientation and gender of your choice) that might–might!–be available a few times a year. Cases:
* Would driving a Corvette or GT-R mundanely be frustrating, while running an RX-8 or S2000 under the same conditions be more amusing? Yes, I think so.
* Lancer Evo versus Audi A3. Yeah, the A3 is slower. I know where I’d like to be every day.
Of course, the answer is sometimes simple:
* Mustang V6 over the GT? Nope, I’d have to be insane.
* Boxster 2.7L over the 3.4L? Have to agree with Mr. Farago.
Of course, it can get interesting: SL550, 63 or 600 versus SL65? I mean, really, would you ever notice the difference, unless you’re trying to deflate someone else’s ego? The SL550 is already obscenely quick and very luxurious, is there any point, really, to the upper models? At all?
In a similar vein: Mustang GT versus GT500? Z06 versus ZR-1? There’s real declining returns in play, here, and you give up a lot (money, usually, but unbruised kidneys are under-appreciated) for a little. Personally, I think the base Corvette is a great value, with the added benefit of being far less twitchy at the limit (and more natural to drive) than it’s steroid-injected brethren.
Of course, that’s just me. For some people, the answer would be very different.
side: And is it “Slow car fast, fast car slow?” (as in the HEADER tag) or “Slow car fast, fast car fast?” as in the headline?
I generally prefer poise, balance, and stability over outright speed. Also steering feel, good brakes, etc.
It’s not hard to make a powerful car. It’s not easy to make a GOOD car.
Mr. Boost is right on with It’s not hard to make a powerful car. It’s not easy to make a GOOD car.
I definitly prefer the Slow Car Fast, which is why I drive an S2000. I’d love a Boxster, but here in PA the insurance is touching 3x’s more than what I pay on the S2000 (me @ 35, clean record), so…
Ideally I’d like a 2nd track-car that I could not only play with in a no-limits track condition, but not worry about wear and tear on it either.
Where in the heck could I go to drive ANY car very fast, say more than 10 mph over the speed limit (which would be 80 max in the rural areas of my state) without the watchful eye of the state patrol, sheriff deputies, or city police? I don’t like the economic impact of speeding tickets, having had two in my 28 years of driving. I guess I need to visit one of those closed courses they talk about on action movies or fast-car commercials. Also, there’s the fact that Porsches, BMWs and the like are not in my league financially. . . .
Uh, slow cars? Some pretty fast “slow cars” are being mentioned. There is an argument for the Honda Fit or a G-20, because you can be a hero more frequently, and certainly have more fun at lower speeds.
A friend with a 300 SRT has two choices, he can be boring or terrifying. It’s nice to be able to rocket forward at will, but you pay for it at the pump.
Many Canadians will tell you that fun is available in a freshly plowed parking lot, with a bit more of the greasy stuff accumulating. Try it with your next rental!
Slow car fast. You can typically drive at 10/10 and still not be breaking the law.
Slow car fast. Agree with “Goose” At some point you gotta say WTF? A TR3 at 90 now that’s thrilling
It rained here for the first time in a very long time, and I had more fun yesterday on my favorite back roads than I’ve had in ages. Four-wheel drifts under 35 mph, and everything became an exercise in feeling for the minuscule grip available.
I remember riding in a Porsche Turbo S at Lime Rock with my friend Nick Longhi, a this-gun-for-hire racecar driver and coach of some note, and currently the head instructor/overseer of the new Monticello Motorsport Club in the New York Catskills.
He was talking about racing turbocharged Porsche 911 variants and basically said it really didn’t matter what you did in the corners. you just drove around them and then floored it.
I’m paraphrasing, and I’m sure there’s more to it than that–Nick would know, since that’s how he’s made his living for the last 20 years–but what’s the fun in that?
I went to a Porsche Travel Club “Camp 4” long weekend in Finland awhile ago, where wealthy Porsche guys–I was the only poor American–were given C4s to drive on a variety of ice and snow tracks, and it was more fun than tits.
I’ll take the more refined car, fast or slow. I want a car I can appreciate as a well engineered and well manufactured machine.
Slow car fast, duh.
Fast cars some time ago exceeded the point at which the tires and computers would actually let one use the full capabilities of the car at anything below sneeze-and-die speeds. Who wants to egg-foot a 600hp Corvette around at 200 or so to keep it from flying off the pavement?
4 out of 5 Corvette drivers say fast car slow.
Slow car fast. I’m not going to do it in traffic anyhow. I might take it to 5-grand on some on ramp or some deserted back road.
What I’m not going to do is act like the dude in the 5-oh who tried to initiate a drag race with us while we were sitting in our 67 HP 4,000 lb VW Westfalia… Did he hear some rumor that VW vans were fast?
Yeah after all sorts of engine revving at the light and face-making on his part, he did some major smokey launch risking engine destruction and tickets while we just took off in our normal 0-60 in 30 seconds mode.
I really do like drifting around the turns on empty country roads in our VW Cabrio or my vintage Beetle.
I’ll take the more refined car, fast or slow.
Don’t feel bad. I can’t afford the best of both worlds car, either.
Yeah, I used to think that it’s better to drive a slow car fast than vice versa. Then I grew up. Sure, idealistically it would be great to tear around the road in a nimble little ride, seeing how much quicker you could take a familiar corner. I will never, ever, deny that is exciting. But the reality of the road does not allow for that. Unfortunately, we have to deal with reality on it’s own terms. That reality is: police, animals, slower (other) drivers, general tracffic, construction, et. al. Hell, it seems like every other week I read/hear another story about some pussy-whipped legislator attempting to ratify every last minutia of fun out of the road. I’m not saying they won, but, yeah… they won.
In my opinion, The Truth About Cars is this: it’s not freaking fun to own a car anymore. It really isn’t. Since that is the case; since I don’t have the luxury of living near a road course. I say I would rather own a fast car, and drive it slow. Why? Beacause our pussy-ticians have not legislated the monitoring of every road, every moment in time. So I want a car that will allow me to extract every last bit of fun I can out of the road, be it straight or curved. I feel (I am very sad to say) the days of slow car fast are over. Don’t believe me, the proof is in the law books.
Definetly, a car that drives good while going slow is the answer.
my opinion is, that even with a very capable car int erms of speed, you should get most for your money even at slow speeds.
AllStingNoBling:
I’m with you – the (formerly “country”) suburban roads around here are chock-full of Suburbans, school buses, bicyclists, joggers, traffic lights, cops, and (at night on weekends) DUI checkpoints.
You’ve got to get another 40 miles out from the city for any “fun”, or hit a track.
It’s really “fast car slow” around here; you’re just showing off, rather than driving.
I own a pretty quick motorcycle, and late Sunday evenings are the only time that I can link more than two turns — but then the whitetail deer like to frolic at that time…
JEC> Well said. I have a gsx-r 600 (2005) which should dyno about 100-105hp (crank 120’ish or so I’ve read) and it’s fun to ride it fast, however I feel MUCH more confidence on my buddies zx-9 that is ~150-200 pounds heavier, carbed, and takes more force to steer. I will tell you I am GLAD that even though my 600 was my “first bike” that I traded with a friend for a year and rode his gs-500f (45ish hp, 0-60 in ~ 5.5-6, 1/4 mile in 14’ish vs my 600 which is 0-60 in 3.5, 1/4 mile in the high 10’s).
With the way the laws are going, I’m more inclined to say “fast car slow” rather than the other way around. Maybe that is because I’m getting older as well (turn 33 soon).
Shaker,
You wouldn’t happen to live in the DC area, would you? Your story sounds all too familiar.
As it turns out, I own a motorcycle as well, and am on two wheels vice four (MUCH) more of the time.
That said, I would love to have GT-R, for instance. Something fast and refined. Something that would allow me to exploit every opportunity out of the road that I can.
I live in the DC area, here traffic is KING. So whether I am going slow (most of the time), or fast (a little of the time), I want the most out of it.
You just cannot drive a fast car fast anymore on public roads. That’s the problem. Even yesteryear’s fast cars were too much for the street. When I drove a 911 C4 around many years ago, I was basically just lugging it around or else I’d be running up somebody’s bumper. The car was too much for everyday use. And this was the 250hp 911. Camrys make more power now.
A few years before that, I drove a ’91 Civic with 90hp. That was a fun car. You could slide those little 170 wide tires around corners. You had to floor it to keep up with traffic. The neat thing is you could run full tilt in that car but you didn’t look like you were running very hard to everyone else.
Try running full-tilt in a GT-R today and see how fast you get yourself arrested.
Also, Mr. Farago’s Boxster is probably not the best example of a slow car. When I think slow car, I’m thinking a first-gen Scion xB, Yaris, or basically any 100-hp vehicle.
I remember when a 90hp Rabbit GTI was considered fast.
Try running full-tilt in a GT-R today and see how fast you get yourself arrested.
True.
Additionally, try running full-tilt in a slow car, and you will get arrested, hit an animal pushed to the edge of the road due to sprawl, run into construction, run into traffic, and you name it, just as fast. That’s part of my point.
If that isn’t the case for you, you either live in the middle of nowhere, you live next to a track, or you don’t care for your life nor the lives of others.
So, considering the reality of the road these days, I will buy a car that will allow me the most fun I can have on a straight road, or curvy one. That’s the full point I am making.
The only reason that automakers are producing these silly 500-600hp cars today is because there are enough fools with more money than brains willing to buy them!
No matter what we talk about here there will always be “over the top” products and the fools that buy them. I dont care if it is bikes, TVs, guns, watches, computer, cameras, etc, you will always find that guy that brought the biggest, most expensive model and yet does not have a clue as to what to do with it.
Think about who many dudes you will see sporting a $3000+ chronograph watch without any idea as to what it is or how to operate it! These same dudes have $5000 computers and $1000 cell phones and cant figure out how any of the features work, but it is the “top of the line” , right?
Cars are no different, and the auto makers market them under the simple principle that MOST people are full of shit! Why else would a person that lives in an area with a population of over 3000 per square mile, speed limits of 65 at best, and an extremely high density of vehicular traffic feel the need to purchase and own a automobile capable of over 175 or 200mph?
The Boxster and how many people view that car is a excellent example for this duscussion. IMHO the base boxster and Cayman are the most fun Porsches available today hands down. They are the only models that can actually be driven in the real world with any degree of fun. This is the true spirit of the road going Porsche. The orginial 911’s mission was not to be the fastest car in the world, but to be a excellent drivers car MEANT for daily use.
The roads I drive on today are still the same as they were 25 years ago. If a 911 with 200 to 215 hp was very fast in 1989 WTF can I do with a 911 with well over 300hp today? Not much but frustrate myself!