The worm has turned. The unabashed adulation given the Tesla Roadster and its wide-eyed progenitors has turned into something altogether vitriolic. In other words, payback’s a bitch. Even before the first demo Tesla prototype hit the streets, TTAC called on the media to stop the love fest and wait and see if the company’s product lived-up to the hype (250 miles to a charge! Recharge in three hours! Ready by spring!) The “you can only ride with us but not drive or test” press teasers set off ALL our alarm bells. When Tesla spinmeister Daryl Siry withdrew his offer of a TTAC test drive, we knew the company was full of shit (to use the technical term). In fact, the Roadster STILL HASN’T BEEN FULLY INDEPENDENTLY TESTED FOR SAFETY, RANGE AND RECHARGE TIMES. But the unwinding process has begun. And this shot across Tesla’s bow, via Tony’s Climate Change Blog, could leave a mark.
“I was invited to California this week to test drive a Tesla electric roadster on a closed course. A short course was marked out with cones at a small general aviation airport, and drivers got to try the car out one at a time, each driver getting five runs… Unlike the ABS, the traction control is very obtrusive, and unfortunately the track layout made this shortcoming very obvious. It incorporated a long 180-degree bend during which the car would understeer violently. At least, the Tesla engineer blamed this behavior on the traction control, which in theory can be switched off though we were not allowed to do so for this test. I suspect there might be more to it than that. In any case, it defeats the object of traction control if you have to switch it off to make the car safe.
“Given its price ($109,000) and heritage (it is built by Lotus on a stretched Elise chassis) one would hope that it would be fun to drive, but from my short test I think a Honda Fit might be more enjoyable.” Tony backs off a bit– “Not that there is anything about the car which could not be fixed, especially if they could involve Lotus in developing out the flaws”– but the damage is done.
I’m not sure what I think of this article’s tone. Yes, it is unnerving that Tesla is having such basic teething problems given all of the hype. Wasn’t the association with Lotus supposed to smooth the development process?
That said, launching a car company is a messy business that takes longer than most folks tend to expect. Drudge-style headlines are easy to do but not always fair. I would be more concerned about Tesla’s credibility if it had offered its cars for full testing and they proved woefully unbaked.
Is it possible to successfully launch an automobile company in today’s environment, where people expect a pretty fast and flawless launch?
I’m hesitant to say all of this because I don’t wish to be viewed as defending a company that has not played its cards very well. I just don’t want to see the journalistic bar set so high that every new automotive entry is all but guaranteed to be “tuckered.”
understeer eh? how much does this thing weigh with all those batteries?
Tesla old Indian word for hype
Can someone define “violent understeer” for me. I get violent oversteer and snap oversteer but how can understeer, “plowing”, be violent, it’s probably really annoying. Is it a case of the car starting to oversteer naturally and then the traction control yanks the power away pulling the car out of the turn?
It sounds like a case of software or the power control module not being smooth with the traction control. My guess is with the amount of torque available from the motor that the car has very dangerous oversteer and the traction control normalizes the car. It’s still something they should have fixed before the gave test drives and definately before they started selling it, especially for that price.
Tesla is giving the Roadster the Palin treatment. Or is it the other way around?
I’m with redbarchetta… the only time I’ve experienced anything resembling “violent understeer” is when I let go of a drift or a half-donut (I love U-Turns) and the rear tyres regain traction and snap the car straight again. Does that count?
It seems obvious that integrating a heavy electric drivetrain would change the dynamics of a car as light as the Elise, though. At its low weight, almost anything is a significant addition. Adding 100 lbs to an SUV or to an Elise… one of them feels it more than the other.
I notice that they “fixed” the transmission by getting rid of it:
“Early cars had two forward speeds, perhaps to reduce noise at speed, but they had clutch problems so now there is just one forward gear.”
And this electric car doesn’t have regenerative braking!
“Tesla claim that the car has regenerative braking but it really doesn’t, at least not as normally understood. When you lift off, there is some engine braking effect, as the motor functions as a generator, but there is no attempt to capture energy from actual braking.”
Wow, with all of that money Tesla hasn’t done anything much more sophisticated than the backyard electric car conversions tinkerers have been cooking up since the 1970s.
Tesla the man died penniless and nearly forgotten, a fate he didn’t deserve. Tesla the company is earning it’s fate.
Well, I didn’t drive the thing, but I did ride in it at scary speeds (to me) on a moderately twisty road and it hung on tight, and felt extremely well controlled. I could not sense any understeer. So, I’m inclined to take this one report with a grain of salt unless I hear that others have had this experience. It’s quite possible though that a harder turn than I experienced might have resulted in the front wheels losing grip.
I’d consider “violent understeer” that horrifying tendency of a crappy front-drive car to head straight for the opposite ditch when you try to turn at a moderate pace. It’s damn scary in its own right, even if you aren’t spinning ass-first off the road. Watch the Top Gear Comedy Handling Award given to the Smart for an example – it simply plows off the track with nary a hint of moving in the direction of the front wheels.
Tesla has a lot of good will as a company trying to make an electric car.
If the initial cars have some problems people aren’t going to loose faith in the company.
It Tesla tries to cover those problems up then people will loose faith in the company.
If I ran Tesla and a website called “The Truth About Cars” wanted to test my car I would quickly throw them the keys. Especially if their editorial policy meant that they were more than willing to spring for insurance, lodging, etc.
Sure the review would harshly label the car as an undeveloped piece of shit, but Tesla would gain the street cred of having notoriously tough reviewers review their car, and they could spin the flaws pointed out in the review to be part of an open source development program.
If Tesla continues to be cowardly and secretive about the car’s flaws they are going to stop being seen as an innovative new car company and start being seen as a smaller, overpriced version of GM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lAbzCUjxbg
Some “smart” car.
I drove a Tesla a month or so ago.
Sure, the weight of those batteries made it prone to understeer. Can’t say I found anything approaching ‘violent understeer’ (wtf) though.
It’s easy to bash Tesla for many things, but driving dynamics should probably be way down the list, IMO.
That guy’s writing doesn’t inspire confidence in his understanding of driving dynamics. Even the Elise will exhibit understeer unless you drive it right (as exhibited by Jeremy Clarkson).
“Sure the review would harshly label the car as an undeveloped piece of shit”
I think that is the problem. This site has already labeled the car just as you have stated, without bothering to test drive it. Being skeptical is one thing, unfounded heavily biased negativity is another. If I ran Tesla I would tell this site to get lost.
It pretty obvious that “Tony” has never driven anything higher performance than a Lincoln Town Car and doesn’t know squat about sports cars.
TTAC – I understand the joy in jumping on bad news about Tesla, but this blog post is just as unsubstantiated as Tesla’s own performance claims. It’s clear that this Tony guy isn’t a race car driver, and terms like “violent understeer” indicate that he has no idea what he’s talking about. The car may very well understeer a lot, but I’m not about to trust this guy’s word on it. Repeating his uneducated words doesn’t really help TTAC’s credibility.
“Tesla claim that the car has regenerative braking but it really doesn’t, at least not as normally understood. When you lift off, there is some engine braking effect, as the motor functions as a generator, but there is no attempt to capture energy from actual braking.”
Arguably, this is a smart decision for the target audience. A person driving a Tesla isn’t looking to eke out a few extra miles from a charge; they’re looking for performance.
When you leverage regenerative braking in the “apply-the-brakes-but-not-really-because-you’re-just-kicking-in-the-generator” sort of way, you give up smooth, linear braking feel. In a performance car, that’s not the right trade-off, but in a Prius that makes sense.
On the other hand, when you lift off the gas, the generator doesn’t have to kick in…but they kick it in. You can’t really call it “regenerative coasting”, though, so I’m not surprised they call it “regenerative braking.” Think of it as regenerative braking that stops the moment you explicitly touch the pedal, under the assumption that you want braking feel/performance more than economy at that point…and coast down if you want economy (which is what you should do anyway.)
In a way, I think that’s even more interesting: they get the range they do without more aggressive regenerative braking! That means for a less performance-oriented model they have that as a range-enhancing option.