I know: we’ve been down this road before. But hey, GM provides us with these neat-o-keen videos for bupkis, and TTAC’s added thousands of new readers since the Best and Brightest last weighed-in on the topic. [NB: That’s one Hell of a condescending, snarky intro there GM.] There’s still a lot debate on the ideal frequency of oil changes given make, model, driving style, height, weight and blood group. And there’s still info out there predicting catastrophic consequences should you fail to change your oil religiously (votive candles optional). Personally, I change my oil whenever those damn idiot lights go off– even though I’m sure I don’t need to change my oil that often. My OCD won’t let me drive with warning lamps lit, and I’m not about to do the reset deal, ’cause then I’ll forget and… peace of mind. You?
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I use Mobil 1 full synthetic in both cars. In the car that does mostly short trips, I change it every 5000 miles. In the one that does mostly freeway commutes, 7500 miles.
I go by taste. When the oil has lost its sweet nutty flavor and bold mouth-feel, it’s time for a change.
5k is the shortest on reg dino oil, longer on synthentic. 3k is a scam.
Depends on a car. Older CR-V with 130K miles gets fresh oil every 3K miles, newer one with half that mileage – pretty much per schedule recommended by Honda (3750), Vibe manual requires every 3 months or 5K miles (I compromise on 6 months and 3-4K miles; I don’t drive this one that much).
Oil companies tell us that “regular” oil is good only for 3K miles, of course they need to sell oil.
Less than 5K, usually 3 ish. Same as my motorcycle. I’m overzealous after working as a mechanic for a while. The (best quality) oil will last longer, sometimes beyond 10 000 miles – but the deposits it accumulates will impact on its perfomance as a lubricant. That’s why you occasionally hear about someone only changing the oil when a chemical oil test tells them to. I don’t recommend that method, personally, new oil certainly doesn’t hurt a motor while old oil certainly will. Car makers (BMW) who recommend loooong intervals don’t inspire confidence in me. It’s like calling automatic transmission fluid lifetime fluid – it most certainly is not, and should be changed every 30K or so for maximum life from your tranny.
For a daily driver, I do 4 months/7500 miles in winter and 6 months/7500 miles in summer.
On less frequently used vehicles I just do it every spring and fall when I do the winter/summer tire changeover.
GM and Honda oil life monitors are good systems. I’d follow it if I had it.
I try real hard to change it every 10,000 miles (using full synthetic). I’m not always successful, though. On my ’91 BMW 750il, I’ve changed the oil 3 times in three years. During that time I’ve put 87,000 miles on it.
It still runs great.
I generally do it once a year after Winter when it’s starting to get and stay warm.
[Chemistry Nerd]
Oil is meant to get dirty, and with good air and oil filters, it’s highly unlikely that there will ever be so much dirt in oil that it’ll lose its lubricative properties. The bad thing that happens to oil is when it gets saturated with corrosive (and not lubricative) organic acids (RCOOH) that are byproducts of combustion. Generally if the engine is run hot enough for a long enough time these organic acids don’t build up and all is well (If I lived in southern california, I’d probably never change my oil). But when the motor doesn’t get hot enough or spend enough time at high temperature the acids will build up and do bad things. So after winter when I’ve had all of my cold starts and, more importantly, when the engine cools down very quickly after shutting it off, I change the oil just to get the acids out of there.
[/Chemistry Nerd]
Edit: This assumes that you’re not overheating your engine or doing any kind of driving that would promote sludging. Since I’m not hard on my cars, I’ve never run into any problems, YMMV.
I change it when the mileage reaches that which is written on the little sticker the oil place puts on my windshield.
Like Farago, I change when the idiot light comes on. At least in the newest car. The computer does a pretty good job of guaging my driving habits. (spending weekends at the track vs. commuting highway miles). Mobil 1 Synthetic et al are awesome. My other, older vehicles… get cheap oil and not so often.
In my wifes car I try to do it every 2500. She does almost all city driving in a 10 year old car. (neon).
In my car twice per year with full synthetic (which comes out to about every 4k miles).
In the motorcycle, once per year or 5k miles. I always hit the 12 month period first…
The Jeep dealer puts a sticker to change after 3,000 miles even though the owners manual says 7,500. I usually change it around 5,000 or so.
The BMW dealer says to change it when the car tells you, which could be over 10-12,000 miles. Of course, BMW pays for the oil change through it all-inclusive maintenance program. I guess when the manufacturer is paying, you don’t need to get the oil changed so often.
After years of trying different routines with different cars I have settled on one for the rest of my life.
I only change the oil when the car’s monitor tells me to.
Generally on all my vehicles the monitor doesn’t say to change the oil until 5,000 miles have passed, sometimes it’s all the way up to 9,000 miles. So it’s about once per year.
I practiced near 10,000 mile oil changes on my 92 Buick LeSabre for well over ten years. That car ended up going 310,000 miles on the original powertrain with no major repairs and no oil burn. This convinced me that 3,000 mile changes are big waste of resources and money.
Regular petroleum oil, every 5000 miles. Largely because the numbers, 5, 10, 15, etc. are easy to remember – I can look at the odometer and know when a change is due. Assuming more than 10,000 miles per year (I do 25 – 30k). Twice a year should probably be minimum if you live where winter is cold, and don’t drive that much.
20,000 miles on synthetic. I dont spend for class 1 synthetic(amsoil or redline) just mobil 1 or valvoline. at 7000 miles I change the filter and add a fresh quart. At 14,000 another filter and fresh quart. This way the oil is never really dirty and since regular oil is almost $4 bucks a quart another $2.50 is still saving you in the long run not to mention the cold and hot weather advantages of synthetic. 376,000 miles and still runs like new.
I did the 3K oil and filter change religiously for years, but I’ve bumped that up to 5K in my daily driver. At 3K, it used to be cheap insurance, but with oil going for $4 a quart, it makes more sense to stretch the interval, and I don’t think my engines are any worse off for it.
My daily driver’s maintenance specs define oil change intervals for regular use at 10K and severe use at 5K. I take lots of short trips and live in a wet maritime climate, so between not always warming up completely and having to cope with lots of condensation, I figure I qualify for severe duty.
My cargo van doesn’t get driven nearly as much, maybe 3K to 4K a year at most. So, it gets an annual oil/filter change.
If I lived in a drier climate, did longer trips (to warm the engine fully) and drove 12K or more a year, I would consider stretching it 7K to 10K between changes, especially with a newer model car.
In a wet climate, at least once a year no matter the mileage seems prudent to me.
In any event, it’s generally hard to go wrong with the manufacturer’s recommendations, but I would err side of caution and go with the severe duty specs.
Once a year in the race car, which sees all of 3,000 miles a year, if even that.
I use the 15k Mobil 1 in the other two cars and change it at 10k. I also use Titan Labs oil analysis.
OMG the continuous stream of oil heads on the MINI cooper enthusiast site (northamericanmototring.com) has debating this to adnauseum. Including chemical test analysis of the oil pre and post.
I change it when the idiot light tells me, with the oil specified by manufacturer. In MINI-BMW it is synthetic and 10-18k miles depending on the driving conditions. I believe it monitors the conductivity of the carbon content of the oil to determine the change time.
RTFM*
*unless you’re using Mobil 1 in a car originally spec’d for dino oil.
I guess when the manufacturer is paying, you don’t need to get the oil changed so often.
It’s not that – it’s the fact that with the synthetic oil they use, there is no need to change it more often.
I also do the 5,000 mile interval per my owner’s manual. If I was on the highway, it would be 7,500 miles, also per the manual.
I go by my OLM. It usually comes to 6-7000 miles
I use synthetic generally, don’t know if the next change will use it. Moneys tight for me
It depends where you live as well. I go by the feel of the engine. If you know your car you can tell when it starts to feel a little less smooth than it should. When I lived in New York City, the dirt would build up in my oil quick. I had a 96 Integra that I used non-synthetic in. I would change every 3k or sometimes less, depending on the engine feel. It would always need it by 3k and would be much smoother afterwards. In the car I have now I use synthetic. Just drove it across country, so I did an oil change just before leaving and then when I got here in CA. It’s much cleaner here, so I imagine it won’t need it for another 5k at least.
I’m with Farago. I change the oil when my car tells me. It adjusts the interval based on how I’m driving and whatever else the engineers at Mercedes came up with. It runs Mobil 1, so it starts with a 10K base, but it can stay at the 10K spot for 2-3K miles.
I change my oil when recommended by Blackstone Laboratories
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
oil analysis is the only way to really know when you should change it! Plus, you’ll know when you are starting to have some abnormal wear particles in the oil so you can ditch the car before it becomes a serious problem.
Wow, everyone has fancy oil wear indicators in their cars. I just have a sticker and odometer. For the sake of break-in, I changed once at 1400, and went mobil 1 synth at 4700. Now I’m up to around 8k miles, I think I’m going to hold on for a while before the next one.
For turbos, Subaru mandates every 3750 miles, but I do it every 3000 miles. Just as well as then the oil’s turning black from contaminates (also true in other cars I drove).
Only exception was my ’83 Toyota Camry which Toyota said every 6000 mile change was ok – that car, not abused, was burning oil at 130K.)
I drive an old Taurus. I drive very little, about 1500 miles per year, mostly in city. The car manual states that oil should be changed every 5000 miles with normal driving or every 3000 miles in city only (or other special) driving conditions. Does this mean that I should change my oil every two years? Doesn’t dyno oil deteriorate with time though?
We get ours changed on the Subaru every 3000 miles. I would love to go longer with it but I can’t. The Legacy turbo has this screwy banjo bolt filter supplying oil to the turbo that has to be cleaned religously every 3000 miles. If it gets clogged it will starve the turbo and kill a $2000 part. And I have read numerous tails online of people who didn’t get 3000 mile oil changes and had their turbo seize, then Subaru denied the warranty claim leaving them SOL.
So all of you will a Subaru with the 2.5 liter turbo engine should be aware of this, especially if you do your own oil changes or it could cost you a lot of money. Here is a link to the TSB if there is anyone who wants to know more.
Subaru Banjo Bolt
I only change the oil once a year on the Caddy since it’s never driven. And I try to change the oil once every 3000-4000 miles on my motorcycle. I’m thinking about going synthetic on the Subaru but they were a waste and more trouble on my motorcycle. Caused my clutch plates to slip, went back to regular oil and it stopped. Hopefully I can figure out whats up with my stator and be riding again after 2 months of being in a cage.
As documented by SAE report 2003-01-3119 and the website at the link below, the greatest engine wear takes place immediately after an oil change (assuming you change before say 20k miles).
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html
I use mobil 1 or other synthetic, changed every 5-7.5k. I think about it at 5k and actually do it every 7 or so.
Engine (bmw I-6) is spec-d for synthetic only. I now have 174k on the engine in five years. I’ll normally go through a quart every 3000. When I do the second quart, I know it’s time to change the oil. I’ve never dino-oiled it, so it’s Mobil 1 or such all the way.
kansei- ditch the car? Why not just fix it?
full synthetic – as per owner’s manual…
every 10k miles, or 12 months, whichever comes first…
at least until the warranty is up…
then, probably still the same…
I heard of TTAC from hanging at BITOG. I used to observe the 3k OCI. Now Ive bumped it up to 5K On cars that dont see much use, every 6 months.
I change the oil at 3,000 miles using regular oil, and I change the automatic tranny fluid at 10,000 miles. Both look dirty when changed, the oil is really dark brown and the tranny fluid has a brownish color to it and is no longer cough syrup red. I also wipe clean the inside transmission pan and take the magnet off and clean it too. With new tranny fluid the car feels like it has 5hp extra probably due to the thicker viscosity.
Jacob :
November 4th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I drive an old Taurus. I drive very little, about 1500 miles per year, mostly in city. The car manual states that oil should be changed every 5000 miles with normal driving or every 3000 miles in city only (or other special) driving conditions. Does this mean that I should change my oil every two years? Doesn’t dyno oil deteriorate with time though?
I’m willing to bet you that the Owner’s Manual also gives a maximum time interval between changes, probably no more than 6 months. As a previous poster pointed out a mjor source of engine wear and oil breakdown is the fromation of acids in the oil. This happens to a much greater extent during short trips where the engien doesn’t heat up enough to boil off combustion byproducts that accumulate in the oil during driving. For this reason, cars that are driven infrequently for short distances are particularly susceptible to engine wear from deteriorated oil, and manufacturers try to account for this by including a time limit between changes.
Personally, I follow the Owner’s Manual as much as my wife will allow me. I’ve negotiated 5k mile oil changes for both her 95 Mustang Cobra and for my 04 Mazda6s. The 58 Chevy and 68 Mustang are on 6 month/2,000 mile oil change intervals (spring and fall).
Having a new Car, I follow the Makers recommendation of 8,000 Kms, on my last Car I changed it at 6,000 kms, it was partial synethic
I also think that any Oil change is cheap insurance anyone can have!
For my XC70 and S60, it’s every 12,000 kms or 6 months.
Our cars, recent Japanese V6 models, are each driven 6,000 to 8,000 miles annually, mostly short trips. The oil and filter are renewed every 4-months using a quality conventional motor oil and OEM filter.
the VW manual says every 10,000
but I do oil+filter every 7,500
I drive kinda hard
it usually consumes 1-1.5 quarts between changes, which is annoying.
The famous Consumer Reports New York Taxi Cab Test (done in 1998, 10 years ago, with older engine technology and oil technology) proved that even 6k or 7k miles is not a problem so long as your oil is not low.
Remember, that test showed a long term test of NYC fleet taxis, which are stuck in traffic, idle a lot, and are subjected to more brutal conditions than the average consumer vehicle.
After 50k miles, the motors that showed oil changed at longer intervals using regular dino oil were no worse for wear.
I’d imagine engines and motor oil, a decade later, are at least as good if not better than then.
Also, there’s been a lot of very recent data showing that synthetic oil may not be even nearly as good as the claims have suggested for the last 8 years (I’m not speaking of Amsoil, but the consumer grade synthetics).
Mrb00st–
Is that a 2.0T? Because that is my experience with the engine. I go ~10,000 miles between changes–add a quart every 5k miles.
@ Redbarchetta
It’s not synthetic that’s the problem on the bike, it’s using car oil. According to my admittedly questionable sources, most car oil has detergents that cause problems with many motorcycle clutches since they are usually “wet” and tend to sit in the same oil as the engine. That is the only rationale I have heard to justify the price difference between motorcycle and car oil. In fact, for the bike I bet you’d be better off using the cheapest, non-detergent car oil instead of Mobile 1 et al.
For my cars with Oil Life Monitors, I follow them and use a brand name synthetic as my extra safety margin. Fear not, I bought my synthetic oil for around $1/quart using sales and rebates. For my other cars I follow the severe service schedules.
The owners manual for my ’04 A6 2.7T S-line calls for changes ever 10K miles, but it was made when Audi still picked up the bill for that. The dealer I bought it from recommended changing every 5K if I “plan to keep the car for awhile”, so that’s what I’ve been doing.
I’m reluctant to say that I don’t follow the recommended change schedule for my Subaru Legacy GT. I generally go 7k to 8k before oil change, though I check often and use a K&N filter.
Europe has mostly city driving and much, much longer schedule for oil changes. The engines are smaller, rev higher and run hotter…I doubt the oil is better.
30 years ago we were told to change every six months or 6000 miles, and to change the filter every other oil change.
Why are things worse now?
Oh my. Europe north to south has about the same climate as the US – and the recomended oil change intervalls usally are between 9000 and 18000 miles when you are under warranty. Go figure.
Some points:
– On a lot of cars, the filter is usually in bypass by 6-7k miles. A few years ago, even BMW admitted that their filters could not support a 15k mile oil change interval. So change the filter more than you change the oil if you’re trying to get the max interval between oil changes.
– Oils are different in Europe, and usually of a higher quality. Benz ran into this problem a few years ago. The US cars were suffering engine failures when customers tried the long oil change intervals with US oils.
– Many synthetics on the market are not synthetics anymore (as in Group IV oils). Mobil 1 changed their mix to a highly refined Group III dino oil blend last year. You are really paying more money for a really nice dino oil, not a synthetic.
Anybody having trouble getting the oil filter off a MINI?
I use Mobil 1 full synthetic in both cars
“Full Synthetic” oils have different meanings in the U.S. vs. other parts of the world, like Europe.
Synthetic oils are classified under the following groups:
Group III – These synthetics use petroleum base stocks which undergo a process called “hydrocracking” which removes most of the impurities inherent in petroleum. Group III is marketed as synthetic in the North American market, but is classified as a “premium” motor oil outside of the U.S.. The majority of synthetics made by U.S.-based companies fall under this category – with the exception of Mobil 1 0w-40 European Formula, and Castrol Syntec 0w-30 – to name a couple (which are Group IV synthetics). Most U.S.-based 5-weight (5w-30, 5w-40) and above synthetics are Group III (“hydrocracked”) oils.
Group IV – Derived from pure synthetic base stocks (Polyalphaolefin (PAO)). 0-weight and 5-weight European Synthetic motor oils such as Elf, Motul, and the aforementioned Castrol Syntec 0w-30 (made in Germany) and Mobil 1 0w-40 (European Formula) oils fall under this category. A select few 15,000-mile change interval motor oils also fall under this category.
Group V – Derived from Synthetic-based esters. The oils that fall under this category are the 25,000-mile change interval motor oils, and aircraft engine oils.
I use Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w-40 synthetic oil (A blend of Group IV and Group V base stocks) every 5,000 miles. Sure, its expensive, but to me, it’s well worth it.
RTFOM – if that (& it obviously does if you meet it’s requirements and retain the paperwork) keeps the warranty in effect, then it must be good enough.
mel23:
“As documented by SAE report 2003-01-3119 and the website at the link below, the greatest engine wear takes place immediately after an oil change (assuming you change before say 20k miles).”
Interesting site Mel. There conclusions (based on research) are remarkably similar to mine (based on gut feeling) that with a synthetic (I use Mobil I) you can have longer intervals as long as you change the filter more frequently and keep the oil topped off. I change mine every 10k miles with a filter change at 5k. I have to add almost a quart back in with the new filter (the engine holds 6 qts. – ouch$). Compare that with the numbers at the bottom of this excerpt:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
“But the big question is, what have we learned so far? Here are a few points to ponder, based on our experience with the Mobil 1 phase.”
… “Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine’s oil get some age on it.”
“Topping up the crankcase is a critical component of extended oil change intervals, and frequent filter changes are most likely the key to extreme-length intervals. The cumulative effect of even minor top-ups, let alone a filter change, substantially increases the longevity of the oil.
Based on the results we’ve got here, we’d recommend 8,000 miles between oil changes on an engine that uses no oil at all, perhaps 10,000 miles on an engine that uses some oil, and 15,000 miles or beyond with a filter change every 5,000 miles. This, of course, isn’t any kind of guarantee, and you must evaluate for yourself what your engine requires. One thing we’re pretty sure about though: 3,000-mile intervals is a huge waste of resources.”
I change it every 10000 miles, just like VW recommends. I figure that the company that engineered and built my engine should know the proper drain interval. I use Shell Rotella T 5W40, $22 per gallon at Wal-smart. Changing oil every 3000 miles is a crock of shit.
Anyone who changes their car’s oil before 7500 is totally playing into the hands of big oil and simply wasting money. I have used mineral and synthetic, and even if I go 9000, which I have more than once (even on the mineral oil), my 2001 Honda Accord has NEVER complained. It has 192,500 miles and is still factory-quiet. There. Proof.
GM cars won’t go that long if you install an IV with fresh oil flowing 24/7!!
I totally agree with brettc. The engineers (even at GM) designed the car. They DO know best.
On my M3, the oil change (maintenance) interval readout is a function of average fuel economy, not a function of chemical or thermal analysis being performed by the onboard computer. I’m not saying that this isn’t a valid approach, merely that this is a second-order indicator and people should be aware of it before they take is as gospel.
My German heartthrob swigs the good stuff (Castrol TWS 10W60 synthetic @ $11/L, yes liter), but I’ve decided to go back to BMW’s old interval (7500 miles) rather than follow the interval (15000 miles) they came up with after they started including four years of maintenance in the price of the new cars. Even that may change after I read through that SAE paper though. The bulletproof Japanese engines in my life get fresh dino juice every six months currently because I believe that while the oil itself can continue to lubricate and trap contaminants well beyond that time period, time is not as kind to the detergents and additives that have prolonged engine life so much during the past two decades.
Given how little we hear about engine failure due to contamination these days even with the spectrum of motorists ranging from fanatical short intervalers/oil analysis enthusiasts to completely neglectful/perpetual leasees/extended intervalers however, I suspect that we are getting our collective panties in a collective bunch over something not worth a wedgie.
The Malibu Maxx has an oil life indicator, so we go by that. My better half drives that car about 15K miles/year, so it typically sees 2-3 changes a year. So far, so good.
My 97 Cavalier was originally owned by my wife’s brother (I know this sounds like a bad joke), while not being even remotely mechanical, religiously took the little beast to the dealer for all routine maintenance. As a result, the insides of the mighty pushrod 2.2 are the cleanest that I’ve ever seen in a 200,000 mile engine of any manufacturer. I found this out when I finally got around to replacing the verdammt leaking valve cover gasket.
Alas, the Pontiac with the Quad4 has lived a hard life in the service of the teenage boy who previously owned her… I don’t think there’s enough oil in Saudi Arabia to save her…
On my ’04 xB it gets changed at about 5K as that is when the “maintenance required” idiot light comes on. Though the last time it came on just before some friends borrowed it for two weeks to move so it was probably more like 7-8K.
On my ’62 Comet (with ’71 Maverick 200 engine) it gets changed once in the spring and once in the fall. I only put about 2-3K on the car in a year.
On my roommate’s Caravan (and previously on her Civic) she gets it changed about once a year *at best*. Her change intervals have been as much as 30K+. This is how she’s always done it and has never had any oil-related failures.