Buyer’s remorse is setting in for many of this year’s sudden converts to the gospel of fuel efficiency– if Jonathan Welsh of The Wall Street Journal is to be believed. Of course, some of that might have to do with buyers’ choices. “Fran MacDonald got better fuel economy and maneuverability in traffic when she downsized from her Buick sedan to a tiny Chevrolet Aveo. But the small car was noisier and didn’t ride as smoothly. And then there were the hand-crank windows. ‘I was driving with my mother, and she asked me to put the window down,’ Ms. McDonald says. ‘When I told her she’d have to do it herself, she said, ‘Well, I don’t see a button.'” Once again, a craptastic GM vehicle disappoints and discourages. Fran obviously did zero research before making her purchase. Has there been ANY source which doesn’t rate the Aveo the class dunce? Another unhappy camper is ex-Chevy Suburban owner Blake Schomas, who went for a slightly more efficient Chrysler Pacifica– only to discover that their family of four (plus a friend or two) means no room for luggage. Kind of hard to take the gang on a skiing adventure that way. Others like Rebecca Lindland ditched her Chevy Trailblazer for a MINI, only to discover it was way too small for her tastes. Tacking back the other way, she traded the MINI on a BMW X3. Mr. Schomas, on the other hand, is probably stuck with that Pacifica for a long time. The moral of the story? Darwin wasn’t kidding.
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So there’s hope yet for GM’s full size SUVs!
…Or not.
I bought a Fit during the height of the gas spike. Don’t regret it at all. Functional, low cost of ownership, and I’ve yet to have a situation where it didn’t fit my needs.
Now, if I had panicked and bought a Smartcar, I’d probably be kicking myself right now.
Who ditches a trailblazer for a MINI and doesnt go for a test drive to realize its a 4-seater in name only. And a buick sedan into an avero? Of course the ride is different. These complaints obviously show a lack of a proper test drive and due dilligence on the buyers part.
No sympathy from me.
So you downgrade to a pacifica and have no room for luggage the one or two times a year when you have 6 people in it. Um, ever heard of a roof rack? USE IT.
How do people too stupid to research new car purchases and solutions to make a smaller car fit their lifestyle expect us to feel sorry for them?
People can’t have their cake and eat it too? It’s not fair!
Chowderheads.
Geeze, the WSJ must be really hard up for material to write about! Seems old school concepts like common sense are no longer a requirement to be the high powered execs that they write about in the article. But then I guess if I had more money than brains, I would be reading the WSJ for car advice too…
And once again, they perpetrate the myth SUVs are somehow safer in the winter because they feel more “substantial”. I wonder how they explain all the smashed up SUVs that magically appear after every snow storm.
To quote Forest Gump, stupid is as stupid does.
Don’t blame it on small cars. I blame it on the buyers not making rational choices which match their lifestyle and desired features in a vehicle. If your only encounter with small cars is an Aveo, you’ll get a bad taste for them.
My 05 xB is a feature-rich car with loads of interior room, but it still won’t take my family of 7 on vacation. That’s why I also have a minivan.
Maybe these buyers should get a bailout as victims of ‘predatory’ selling of mediocre small cars….
@thickbrick
SWMBO and I have a method when buying a new car, I get into the drivers seat,
adjust it to be comfy, she then gets in behind me. If she fits, we consider it…
SteveL
Well if you buy an Aveo – of course it’s a major downgrade from about any other vehicle (well aside from a Yugo or Metro). The lady did something stupid – sold a cushy geriatric comfort cruiser for a Korean economy car that just had a GM badge on it. No sympathy from me for not doing your homework and test driving the Aveos competition or even seeing if she could move up to a compact 4 cyl car.
Reminds me of a neighbour. Family of four. The mom decided that that necessitated something ‘bigger’. She went out and purchased a, wait for it, Durango. Then she started using it to go shopping and dropping the kids off and, dun, dun, DUN!, discovered the mileage was appalling. Within months she was back at the dealer, giving them hell for the vehicles mileage and trying to wheedle her way out of the lease.
Some people do virtually no research before purchasing. As in none.
The first and foremost concern for any car purchase should be can you afford it. If you want and or and need a Tahoe, but cannot afford to refuel it if gas prices go higher, better reconsider your wants and needs.
If you couldnt afford to refuel it, you made the right choice dumping it for the smaller car, even if you dont like it.
So they failed to think through what they needed and wanted from their vehicles, and decide which were the priority. Then they rushed into purchasing a vehicle before making sure it met their needs and now they regret it. No sympathy here.
Also the amount of BS in that article is incredible. Small cars only have a few inches of ground clearance and are therefore likely to get stuck in snow? Wrong, sports cars maybe but small cars are probably on par with larger cars for ground clearance.
The lady with the the Aveo seems to only now be grasping that if you buy a cheap small car you get a cheap small car. And apparently her mom is incapable of remembering most of her life when manual-crank windows were the norm. Also “I miss the CD player”? Go to Best Buy, spend about $100 on a CD player and installation and you’re done.
The guy with the Pacifica apparently has kids either too special (or too fat) to allow the kid’s friend to sit in the middle of the back seat, freeing up the cargo area.
On that front the guy with the ’74 Imperial comments that it probably “wasn’t legal” for six people to ride in a car with front & rear bench seats. What? That car was designed to seat six, in fact until recently most cars had front bench seats for specifically that reason.
I bought an ’04 xB just before the gas crisis hit. Yes it is smaller than my old Outback, and has less power, and doesn’t have AWD, and doesn’t have heated seats, and doesn’t have a roof rack. But since I researched what I wanted in cars and chose carefully I don’t regret it for a moment. Though if I could fit it with heated seats I would.
I’ve always liked small cars, and therefore I’ve never regretted buying one. Problem solved!
A far better strategy for those who can afford it and handle the logistics is a personal fleet.
Mine for instance is:
econobox (really only used when gas > $2/gal)
4wd truck (winter / hauling)
mid lux sedan (normal driving & trips)
60s classic convertible (fun)
the total value of which is about what you’d pay for one overpriced new ride
But this people are extremes differences. Only small changes can make a big difference.
I traded in my Lincoln Town Car for a Dodge Magnum SXT.
Yes, I did give up seating for six for seating for five. Yes, It doesn’t ride as soft as my Town Car. And yes, I lost the five body trunk…
But, instead of a V8 getting 15 city and 20 highway, I have a nice 3.5L V6 that gets 19+ city and 26 highway. Who needs a thirsty HEMI ?
And it’s still a decent size car and since I travel 80+ miles a day, I can now go almost a 5 days without a fillup. The Lincoln was 3-4 days.
And with a 2 year old, car seats and all of the other stuff, it works great.
and can’t we all agree that stupid people like these examples DESERVE to be taken advantage of by car salesmen. After all, we have to make up for all the giveaway deals we hand out to the Best and Brightest!
Thes best part is you know they got gouged on the trade, talked into a full sticker deal, and now they are flipped in the little shitbox they bought and will do anything to get out, guaranteeing they get fleeced again! Brilliant!
Well, it’s blatantly obvious that a majority of auto buyers do not research their 2nd largest life-purchase. LOL!
Sadly, the MINI ‘Bimmer costs more to maintain than the Blazer too!
this story is a clear illustration of kneejerk reactions and not thinking through purchasing decisions.
I feasted on that stuff at Nissan.
“Jeez we were just looking at car ads this morning in the paper wondering if it was time for a new car and bam. we have a new one by noon”
ya, well thought out, $790 commission to me.
My God, we’ve become a nation of whiners.
Pixel:
The guy with the Pacifica apparently has kids either too special (or too fat) to allow the kid’s friend to sit in the middle of the back seat, freeing up the cargo area.
Only the base model Pacifica had a (three-person) bench seat in the second row, and that model lacked a third row completely. The higher trim levels had two bucket seats divided by a console in the second row, with a split-folding, two-person bench in the third row.
This just in: you can’t fit more than 2 people in an S2000.
The guy with the Pacifica apparently has kids either too special (or too fat) to allow the kid’s friend to sit in the middle of the back seat, freeing up the cargo area.
Now, to be fair, modern child-seat regulations make this very, very hard:
* No car seats in the front-passenger area.
* Your children must be in some kind of seat until 80-100lbs.
* Booster seats are acceptable after 40lbs, but boosters, by and large, suck and kids can get out of them or misalign them. Getting a seat that can accommodate an 80lb kid with a five-point harness is tricky.
* Children must rear-face until they can walk and are over one year old.
* Rear-facing seats must allow the child to recline a certain degree, and thus project way past the seat cushion.
* Infant “bucket” seats are only suitable up to 15lbs or so. After that, you’re into a rear-facing normal (ie, huge) seat.
* A rear-facnig child seat must have about an inch and a half gap between it and the front seatback (ie, the infant seat must not contact the driver or front-passenger’s seat). A lot of people don’t realize this, and jam the front seats right into the infant seat. This is bad as the seat is supposed to be a little loose so that it takes some of the forces in a collision.
* There is no way in hell you can safely fit three modern childseats abreast in any car, let alone sit an adult in the middle seat between them.
Now, I’m 6’9″, but this applies to anyone over 6’3-4″ with a child in a rear-facing seat. There are very, very few cars I can sit in the front seat of that will accomodate a rear-facing child seat. Thusfar, excluding minivans, I’ve found three: the Mazda5 (too small up front), Honda Element and Ford Taurus, and I’ve scratched a lot of very big cars (and every crossover) off the list: we’re talking the Camry, Accord, Azera, Impala, Matrix, CR-V, RAV/4–I’ve tried them all! I tried a Lincoln Town Car and found that I couldn’t effectively fit in the front without a seat in the back.
Smaller cars are out of the question.
I used to be able to sit in the back seat and let my wife drive, which worked, but we’ve got a second child on the way. There is, I repeat, no way to do this with most cars. I could rent a van, but we do travel as a family every weekend, and that would add up.
The irony? As my kids grow up, I might be able to downsize.
Let me get this straight: The lady sells her Buick, and buys an Aveo, never realize that the car has manual cranks, nor asked for the option for that matter, and it’s GM to blame?
Gimme a fucking break. No, better yet, let me LMAO, because this is just plain CRAZY.
What kind of stupid buys a so expensive (so to say, because it is a “capital good”) product without even checking if it works for its necessities?
And then, why they traded their cars? Real need? Fashion?
Oh, by the way, I don’t like the Aveo, but down here we can get one with both front or all 4 power windows.
Also, alloy wheels, fog lamps, etc…
Factory or dealer installed.
After reading some other comments… ROFL at the PWNED lady. Eso le pasa por PENDEJA.
I drove Aveo on biz trip in CA to impress client with being frugal and adhering to their financial concerns (they payed for the trip).
Yes in rental level Aveo for $20/day you crank your windows by hand. The mother of dopey lady should remember times when majority of cars had crank windows (was not that long ago: 20-30 years).
The joke is on owners of Aveo: during mostly highway driving in Orange county and short run for lunch at the marina in Newport Beach car returned 20 mpg. Yes, your eyed don’t deceive you 20 mpg. Enterprise kid confirmed my surprise: they are less efficient then one can expect.
Thank you GM and Daewoo.
For the guy with 4 kids, 2 friends, who want to go on a ski trip with luggage. Rent a van from Enterprise (or the likes) for the trip. You can even get your 2 friends to kick in for the expense.
Problem solved.
200 mpg in an Aveo?
You have a hole in the fuel line or something? That’s incredibly bad.
@BlueBrat,
Mini/Bimmer cost nothing to maintain. They come maintenance free for the first 3 years. Oil, wiper blades everything.
I am not pushing Mini, but a colleague of mine burned clutch at 60K miles and it was replaced at no cost to him.
My wife and I have five kids and, ergo, the ultimate vehicle for utility, a chevy minivan. It’s paid for, keeps running, gets 20-25 mpg, and is a simple, functional vehicle. You know, transportation?
We rented an Expedition once on a family vacation and couldn’t get all the kids and the luggage into it. Lesson learned: bigger sport utes have less usable space. There’s no sport, there’s little utility, but they are vehicles.
Our other car is an old Audi A8. Again, paid for, 20mpg and 26mpg taking it down the highway to the airport. Romping 300hp v8 and quattro when I feel like having fun. Beats the crap out of most cars today for comfort, style, features (bun warmers in the back seats for the kids!) and driving fun, will last forever even as I abuse it. And if it has a ridiculous repair bill, toss it and get another.
Cash is king!
There is no cost justification for taking your existing, paid for car and buying a smaller, more fuel effiecient vehicle, there’s only rationalization of wanting a new car. And that is something I can live without, no matter how shiny the new ones are.
How about rightsizing? No aveo, no Suburban, just a Malibu, Camry or V70?
psarhjinian speaks truth. I’m only 6’3, but I’m also overweight which makes finding cars difficult when you need to seat the twin infants in the rear behind you.
To your list, I add the Dodge Magnum, Charger and Chrysler 300C.
How I wanted the Magnum, but the wife insisted on the 5. We already had the Element from the first attempt at a non-minivan family friendly hauler. Its no Magnum.
The lady who bought the Aveo — against medical advice, no doubt — has no one to blame. Heck a Civic gets better mileage and its superior resale makes it cheaper to own.
The guy who bought the Pacfica is in even worse shape. He could have bought a T&C van from the same dealer, and would have a vehicle that has the same interior space as the Suburban. Only folks who tow large boats or horse trailers need a truck.
Life is tough, and its tougher if you are stupid.
Voice of Sweden: My sentiments exactly!
That’s why I have 2 Camrys (long story) and a Nissan Frontier regular cab pickup. My wife and I are empty nesters.
On that front the guy with the ‘74 Imperial comments that it probably “wasn’t legal” for six people to ride in a car with front & rear bench seats. What? That car was designed to seat six, in fact until recently most cars had front bench seats for specifically that reason.
He may have said that if the middle seating positions still didn’t have seatbelts in ’74. My 1966 Chryslers don’t have middle seatbelts. The law recently changed where I live to restrict vehicles to only carry as many passengers as there are belts. There is an exemption for old cars though. I carry a printed copy in the glovebox in case I have extra passengers and I get stopped by a cop, since they probably won’t be aware of the exemption.
Fran and Blake should get a bailout. They are no less deserving than GM or Cerberus.
It’s only fair.
@Voice of Sweden
If we talk about rightsizing, for the price of one Volvo you can get Camry and Malibu in US.
John, this is a funny yet sad story. This is what we’ve come to: People who are functionally dysfunctional making .. er, dysfunctional decisions. How did we get here?
Oh, and I’m not usually a human spell-checker, but I noticed something in your article:
“Has their been ANY source which doesn’t rate…”
The sentence feels awkward, but if all else is left the same, then shouldn’t that be spelled “Has there been”.
Sorry. But I know we’re pursuing excellence here, crank windows and lack of storage space notwithstanding.
psarhjinian: you’re in luck. Most cars have a middle seat in the rear. Our 2 year old rides daily in my 2 door BMW – rear facing was fine (albeit awkward!) when she was younger, and she happily climbs into her front facing car seat now.
I do agree that 3 abreast would be difficult, or a rear facing on either side, so this could get a little difficult with a second child. We’re expecting our second this spring and currently only have the BMW and a Mini (having sold our SUV recently), and will need to buy a new (to us) vehicle. Luckily SUV sales have tanked, so hopefully it’ll be a cheaper transition…
@psarhjinian
If you have two kids in rear-facing seats you’re screwed. One rear-facing and one booster is doable if the rear-facing seat is placed in the middle of a second row bench seat. What we’ve done is put the rear-facing seat behind the front passenger and the booster behind the driver. It compromises the comfort of the passenger, but the driver can adjust to wherever the seat needs to be.
I’d like to have a van so I’m not lifting the carrier across the rear seat when the car is in the garage, but by the time we can trade up the baby will be in a forward facing seat.
So Ms McDonald traded a mediocre GM medium size car for an truly aweful GM small car. Maybe if she had traded it for a good small car she would be happier with it?
toxicroach-sadly (for owners, renters and salespersonel..not the rest of us) 20mpg in an Aveo is very likely.
Most road tests get 23-25 all-around. Go heavy on city driving and I think the upper teens is “achievable”.
The hole in the gasline is standard, it empties into what is possibly the least efficient drivetrain on the market.
The guy with the Pacifica shoulda’ gone to an Odyssey. Nearly the interior volume of the ‘Burb (probably better seating) and might just beat the Pac on mpg (a guess). Minivanphobia claims another (willfully?) ignorant victim.
Thoughts.
Bunter
Hmmm, A Buick to an Aveo and not happy. Who’d have thunk it? Most of what can be said has been said. However, the problem has to do with something that is pervasive in our culture…excess. The emphasis has simply shifted from excessively large to excessively small. Now, can you blame companies for catering to excess? I don’t know. This applies to your 5 gallon tub of mayo as much as it does a Suburban or an Aveo. Had these people learned moderation in the first place, they would have been fine. A lack of moderation in one direction hurt them financially and now a lack of moderation in the other hurts their comfort. Had this woman bought an Astra, she might have been happier all around.
gfen-
I own a Magnum R/T AWD.
Allow me to say-
it’s AWESOME!!!
Sorry to pile on.
This is the USA.
If you make a financial mistake, the government is supposed to bail you out. Just look at housing, banking, and the manufacturing decisions of the big 3!
Are you telling me that if I pick the wrong car someone else won’t pay for it?
(please note: this post is intended to be sarcastic!)
As others have said, the entire blame for this lays with the buyer. They chose to make knee-jerk decisions to purchase small cars irrespective of their actual needs. The big 3 are not at fault here and I can’t even really blame a hungry salesman if people choose not to research their purchases.
… in conclusion we all smarter next morning.
3 months ago, before recession, when gas skyrocketed to over $4/gallon, Aveo looked damn smart choice. How many people jumped on this wagon? I was pretty sure that prices would reach $6/gallon on $225/barrel oil price. I admit to be temporarily wrong until recession (or depression) goes away.
25 years ago bright guy Iaccoca introduced minivan: it was doing 20-25 mpg, seating 7 and some of their stuff (we had less stuff them didn’t we?) and this brilliant idea was “rightsized” to a point that minivan of Chrysler today larger then any of their “working” vans of 25 years ago. Do we ever learn?
You can’t blame the salesman for the Aveo… any salesmen worth his salt would have picked out a top trim Aveo to sell her. She probably intentionally went for the lowest trim she could because she was feeling frugal.
Stingray is the one who understands correctly.
The Aveo is available with power windows, power locks, sunroof, CD/MP3/XM with steering wheel controls, OnStar, and fake leather seats.
Love my Aveo, as I’ve said before. Had it 3.5 yrs . I get 30+ overall, driving frugally. I don’t put my right foot through the floor when driving. For money spent/mpg, it works for me. Sure, they’re not for everyone, they’re BASIC TRANSPORTATION. If that’s what you desire, you will like it. If not, you will NOT. Your choice.
P.S.- Mine has MP3 CD player/ AT/ AC, and manual windows. Just what I specified when I was looking online. No salesman talked me into/out of anything I wanted.
Kansei,
Unfortunately, the cost of buying the requisite equipment to use the rack properly, along with the decreased fuel mileage of using said rack on the long highway drive is going to turn what they erringly thought was a money saving move into an even blacker hole into which they are throwing money.
Even if gas had not retreated in price, they were better off with the suburban. It’s hard to make the right decision when your fuel purchase slaps you in the face constantly, but the other numbers are at worst in your face once a month and likely only part of the equation when trading.
At any rate, oil will likely recover to $80 or so before too long, and a gas tax may be coming at us soon, so if you did buy a small car, you might want to stick with it for another year or two instead of getting whacked on yet another bad trade.
I got three car seats into the back seat of my Fusion, but it wasn’t easy. Had to buy VERY EXPENSIVE seats (Sunshine Kids $250 each) that were specially designed to be ultra-narrow and work with kids over 40 pounds.
Beware of trick marketing on car seats–most car seats are rated to 80-100 pounds but NOT using the Latch system! After 40 pounds, you must use the shoulder belt. If you have three kids across, you WILL NOT be able to use the shoulder belt, because the seats will be crammed too close together to allow access to the belt release. Hence, you will have to buy very expensive specialized seats, like the Sunshine Kids model, that allows you to use the 5-point restraints for kids over 40 pounds. Otherwise, YOU CANNOT HAVE THREE KIDS ACROSS IN A VEHICLE!!!!!!
If you have multiple kids, it is VERY challenging to get them to fit in anything less than a massive SUV or van.
I cant believe that one of the big points in this article involved not having power windows…how low do u go to downgrade a cheap basic transportation vehicle?
I would have mentioned to the passenger: take the bus,or a cab,and if you cant roll down a window,maybe an ambulance!
The Aveo bashing has gotten a ‘little’ extreme now!
Christ..not everyone buys a Toyata or a Honda,ok
get over it,move on,give it a rest,bash a Morgan for costing$$$$ and it has a wood floor…bash BMW for not making the Mini and affordable alternative,since the mark-up must be a bunch,blast VW for not offering a REAL entry level car…but..
you know…if either of these make offered a car that people could afford.Ill bet they would have roll up windows!!!
Too many bash….
Too many just dont get it!
Just my opinion.
People are stupid.
There’s a difference between “the price of gas has risen, my next car is going to be more fuel efficient, but I’m going to take my time with research and test drives” and “the price of gas has risen, I NEED a small car NOW!”
The former was the method I chose when I bought my Mazda3. I was going to buy a new car anyway, and gas prices bumped fuel efficiency closer to the top of my list. I cross shopped the Aveo, Yaris, Fit, and some others until I made a choice. I don’t regret the purchase.
This article indicates people who chose the latter method.
EDIT for oldyak – The Aveo bashing can NEVER go to far! Of all my automotive experiences, not much has been lower than my minute alone in the driver’s seat of one. Before my buttocks hit the seat, I hated it. After rolling down the window and resting my arm upon the door, the door literally felt like it couldn’t take the force. The cabin is spartan to a ridiculous degree; there’s not even a center console! When the salesman asked me if I’d like a test drive, I laughed. Seriously (No feelings were hurt because it was not a Chevy dealer).
Simply put, the Aveo is built with one purpose: to undercut any and all competition pricewise and sell to those who can’t otherwise afford anything better, and (for whatever reason) don’t want to buy a used car! It is NOT built as the “fuel efficient” saviour that GM started calling it once gas hit $3.00/gal. It is simply a car built as cheap as possible to be sold to cheap people…or people who don’t know any better.
And no offense to “scarey.”
Well, if people go back to their behemoths, I’ll be able to get a small car at invoice. On the other hand, I might get killed by said behemoths, and all the small cars may eventually vanish from the market. It’s a sad situation; I guess there’s no way to get Americans to willingly buy small cars. Here’s to fuel prices going back up again I guess…
Indeed, people should think long and hard about their requirements for a new vehicle and do careful research before buying something. You know, use their heads! Sadly, many people make big decisions without really thinking it through first. Whims, fashion and emotion drive a whole lot of decisions.
Oldyak: it’s a relief to know there are some cars out there that don’t have all that electronic crap on them. Nice to see “perforated leatherette” [aka vinyl] make a come back as well.
Have to agree; the Aveo riff is getting old.
Canadian Driver did a review of the Cobalt XFE base model and the whining never ended about manual locks and windows. You’d think the road tester had just been sent to a concentration camp.
That car sounded like just the sort of car that I like: simple, small, good mileage, something that could be maintained inexpensively and driven through three or four gas crises over a long period of time.
The under $10,000 Versa does too.
The scary part of it is these people don’t have the slightest clue of how shallow and silly they are, much less see their own culpability in their “predicament”.
Hard to believe that silly fluff piece was a Wall St. Journal article. I’d expect that in something like Oprah Magazine or the L.A. Times :”Traumatized By Downsizing”, “Single Mom Forced By High Gas Prices To Drive Small Car”.
Not what would be expected from a serious financial newspaper.
NickR:
“Reminds me of a neighbour. Family of four. The mom decided that that necessitated something ‘bigger’. She went out and purchased a, wait for it, Durango.”
Let me guess, it was the new “enlarged” one, with a Hemi and 4wd, right?
We bought the last year of the first gen (smaller than the current one), 2003 leftover. Got a great deal on it. Only 2wd and the smaller 4.7 V8. Just took it down to Disney World and back. Set the trip computer at the beginning of the trip. Drove 65 in the 70 MPH zone (right lane of course). Took our time. Watched Ford F-250 4×4’s blow by us doing 75+. Stayed on the grounds and used their transportation to and from the parks. At the end of the trip the on board readout was 20 mpg. This is not the first time this has happened. I don’t miss the Hemi, don’t miss the 4wd, love the room, and after 5 years, there’s NOTHING wrong with it. But we knew what we wanted (4wd? We never go off road, Hemi? Not gonna tow anything heavy, and the 4.7 is more than capable).
Pacifica back seat is two buckets on most trims.
windswords: The EPA combined ratings for the Hemi and the 4.7L aren’t much different. It’s usually tied or the 4.7L does one better- depends on the application. However, I haven’t spent a ton of time driving the Hemi SUVs, so I don’t know if fuel consuption is as close between the two engines as the EPA claims.
DweezilSFV: I agree about not wanting tons of electronic stuff in certain cars. I’d love a low-priced, stripped-out Challenger R/T with manual locks, seats, and windows. Won’t ever happen though.
autonut> Yes the Volvo is somewhat expensive, but I allways buy used cars. Then again you could buy a used Camry too, cheaper than the V70. I mostly wanted to point out a car size, not a car pricepoint. And the Malibu, Camry and V70 is three flavours of midsized cars.
psarhjinian> What some car enthusiast dads do here is to buy old BMW 7-series or Audi A8 with long wheelbase. Those are perfect for having big child-seats in the back.
“I happen to be looking for a Pacifica right now. Must be a 2007 or 2008 model, less than 5,000 miles, must have GPS Navigation, DVD entertainment system, and back-up camera. I’m willing to spend up to $12k, maybe $14k if the features are right. Basically either a new or extremely low-mileage loaded model for somewhere around 30% of MSRP.
Just wondering if dealers are desperate enough now or if I should keep waiting?”
Keep waiting…..about 2 more years for the Pacifica of your dreams to depreciate some more. I can sell you an 05 strippy for about $12k.
No dealer is that desperate.
If the old lady wanted a small car with Buick handling she should have bought a Corolla.
Look before you leap.
Hmmm… let’s see here…
1994 Volvo 940 Wagon: $750 was total cost including repairs. Features include…
Auto, Cold Air, Power Windows/Locks/Mirrors, Cruise, 4-Wheel Disc ABS, Side Impact Protection System, Child Tethers, Fold flat rear seats, and Neat Hidden Compartment For Valuables… and Aftermarket Cupholders and CD Player.
1994 Volvo 940 Sedan: $750 total (although up front costs were zero)
All the above and Leather, Sunroof, 8-Speaker Premium Sound System.
Both cars were maintained with Volvo OEM parts, were bought at PUBLIC auctions, and should each easily last another 100k.
My question is this. Why the hell doesn’t the Wall Street Journal do an article about me? Damn it! Why do the clueless get the headlines while the smart only get the obituaries.
Regarding manual windows and roof racks. My daily driver/family hauler is Grandma’s 97 Saturn SL2 stripper, with manual windows, locks, and mirrors, and it’s a minor inconvenience, but I can reach all 4 window cranks from the driver’s seat, and the car was free. It also has a good sized bike rack on the roof and the gas mileage with a full load of 3 bikes and their aerodynamic drag is shocking (low 20s, compared to 30ish on the highway with no rack). That said I still get better mileage commuting than an Aveo and I don’t have payments or collision insurance so running costs are minimal.
We were cosidering getting something a little bigger for long trips, but $4 a gallon gas and a need for speed meant we spent the money on new mountain bikes and kept our cheap beaters. Our other car is a 95 Escort 4dr hatchback, which does have power windows and a a flat rear seat that easily handled car seats and boosters for our two kids.
I love hand-crank windows. I especially love well-designed ergonomic ones such as those found in my 1980 VW Rabbit 4-dr back in the day. I could operate all four of them from the driver’s seat without much in the way of reaching, with the exception of the rear driver’s side one which was an odd left-hand-backwards reach. It also helped that I was 19 years old when I drove it.
–chuck
People don’t think far ahead sometimes…if you need the space and utility, then you need the space and utility.
Spending thousands on cars to save hundreds on gas.
These are the same people who, when buying a home they’re planning on living in for the rest of their lives, didn’t bother to ask that their interests rates would be in 5 years.
Zammy:
Chrysler might just be that desperate!
This rule always seems to apply; Research in Haste, Repent in leisure.
Regarding that ’74 Chrysler Imperial, it would have had 6 seat belts — 2 lap/shoulder belts up front and 4 lap belts for the center front and the 3 rear seating positions (at least when new).
All cars sold in the US were required to have belts for each allowed occupant as of Jan. 1, 1968.
Back in the day I owned a Ford Probe LX. Power windows, power door locks, six-way power driver’s seat with adjustable side bolsters, digital dash, trip computer, flip up sun roof, AC, leather wrapped steering wheel, cruise, rear wiper and washer, factory installed CD player and sub-woofer, power antenna. Probably a bunch of other stuff I forgot about. 30+ mpg on the highway. The car wasn’t fast but the handling was fantastic. I never got stuck in a snow storm either. I think I got it for $16K. This was back in 1989.
The people in this article are idiots.
I sold a Dodge Dakota (16 MPG on a good day) and bought a used Mazda Miata (30 MPG, driving like a hoon) in the middle of freaking out about five buck gas fueling my 100 mile daily commute. It’s hard to get the week’s trash to the dump, but gawd I love this little car. No regrets, plus power windows! Whee!
Sure, I overreacted, but in the universe of snap decisions I’ve made, this was a pretty good one. You should try it.
– bob
P.S. Just put cheap replacement Hankook tires on the thing. Such a bad idea, I can’t being to tell you. Talk about not doing your research…
just think, these strange, bewildered people who don’t read TTAC twice a day and do make poor car decisions get to vote just like the rest of us.
Somehow you just know someone at GM read this and thought, “A Buick Aveo – why didn’t we think of that?”
“just think, these strange, bewildered people who don’t read TTAC twice a day and do make poor car decisions get to vote just like the rest of us.”
These people go about voting the same way. No wonder politicians can flimflam the public so easily.
@HPE:
Somehow you just know someone at GM read this and thought, “A Buick Aveo – why didn’t we think of that?”
Best comment EVER!!! The sad part is that I’m sure you’re correct!!
I knew this would happen. As soon as fuel prices fell, the American media would pepper their publications with stories about ‘silly’ buyers rushing out to get small cars. “What? You bought an econobox/tin can/sardine can/penalty box? LOL! Fuel is back to half price you fool! You should have grabbed another SUV!”
Smaller cars have lower maintenance and fuel costs, cost less to buy, burn less imported oil and produce less pollution. Whether gasoline is US$4/gallon or $2, it doesn’t matter. Only the scale of savings changes, not the fact that small car buyers save a bundle anyway.
@cratermeister: Expect more and more sensationalism from the WSJ. Remember, it was sold to Rupert Murdoch of New York Post and Fox fame.
Hmmm… that “fuel sippin”, “carbon reducing”, coffin on wheels didn’t turn out to be such a great deal after all? Ohhh, that’s soooo sad…
I suggest you sell it quick and buy a real vehicle before all the rest of the morons figure it out and the price of your toylet goes to zero while the price of those currently CHEAP SUV’s skyrockets.
The reason that most people do not like Crank-up windows is that they SUCK BALLS. It has taken an extremely long time for these horrible anachronisms to die. What’s this I hear about crank-up “being the norm” 20-30 years ago?
My 85 Subaru Econobox has them, as my friends 85 Camry does. I have another friend with an 89 Corolla that has them as well.
What’s this tripe about “crank windows never breaking” oh and my personal favorite “Power windows are too hard to fix”. The mechanisms seize and the cranks will not turn. I have seen many crank-up window cars whose windows refuse to roll down anymore(because they never break). To fix an power window, one merely needs to take of the door panel, and replace the motor or put the window back on track(which is the EXACT same procedure for fixing a crank window car).
They lady should have done her reasearch, but I would pissed be to if I had to crank my windows(IN 2008!) manually. I hope these pieces of garbage never make a return to mainstream cars. The ONLY time I would want crank windows is in a lightweight competition version of a car, because that is the only place that they belong, keep them out of mainstream cars, automakers. Please.
At the risk of repeating all the above…
If it were not for these idiots, Big 3 (and the rest of the auto industry) would not sell enough cars. No one needs a new car to match the new year, but GM et. al. need you to buy one.
I agree with Indy500fan. My quiver of cars is:
’88 Ford Fiesta 1.6 diesel (enconomy)
’87 Suzuki Samurai 2.4 diesel (off-road)
’89 BMW 520 gas (back seat)
’81 Corvette 5.7 gas (wee!)
Total investment: $11,000
If you have a big family, it is your fault for not buying condoms. Also, as a person vertically challenged, you get no sympathy for being 6’9″! (sorry to call you out and use you for an example)Vehicles are mass produced for the average person. If you are special (and at 81″ you are), it is up to you to adapt. If you have 6 kids, all in car seats, suck it up and buy a Van, a Bus or better yet – a limo! It is not our (the buying public’s) resonsibility to ensure you have transport. You should have thought of that.
I know, I personally take responsibility for the auto industry crash since (almost) all my cars are 20 years old. It is also my fault for global warming since EXCEPT for cars and motorcycles, I don’t recycle. But I am getting my just deserts since my Ford and GM stocks are in the tank!
ajla:
“windswords: The EPA combined ratings for the Hemi and the 4.7L aren’t much different. It’s usually tied or the 4.7L does one better- depends on the application.”
That is true for the current Durango. But we bought the 1st gen (little of Dumbler’s influence on that model) and the Hemi wasn’t available. Only on the all new model. We test drove it and realized it was too big for our needs and guessed (I think correctly) that the Hemi would be too thirsty. If we wanted the larger engine on the leftover 1st gen it would have been the venerable 360 (5.9L). And that definately would have been a mpg penalty.
I sold my pickup, just a Chevy S-10 with a 5 speed and V6 for a small sporty looking econo coupe with a 4 banger and 5 speed. It has crank windows, manual seats and locks. Only power mirrors. I don’t feel under priveledged in the least. Manual windows and locks are no big deal in a small two door. It’s fun to drive (but not fast – just adequate) and I get an avg 34 mpg on the highway. One of my co-workers got a left over Accura RSX a couple of months ago. Stuffed to the gills with goodies (I love how she can talk to the car). But her mileage sucks for such a small car. But then she doesn’t drive 70 miles a day like I do. Hope all that stuff is reliable.
What some car enthusiast dads do here is to buy old BMW 7-series or Audi A8 with long wheelbase. Those are perfect for having big child-seats in the back.
There’s two problems with this. One: I’ve tried and the roof is too low and the omnipresent sunroof robs critical inches. I still need to lean the seat back. Two: an older European car is, in maintenance terms, unpleasant. I wish I had the time to learn to wrench it, and an SO patient enough to put up with what is, really, her car being in pieces.
I’ve always wanted an A8, though.
If you have two kids in rear-facing seats you’re screwed. One rear-facing and one booster is doable if the rear-facing seat is placed in the middle of a second row bench seat.
I tried that, and in most cars I still end up contacting the rear-facing childseat. The best I can do is put it behind one of the two front seats: in my Saab, this renders the front seat problematic for anyone over 5’2″-5’4″. In the Honda Element, though, the seatback doesn’t come anywhere near the carseat. Int he Taurus, it does, but not so much as to compromise the seat. Both cars have very tall rooflines and high hip points in the front seats, which help matters greatly.
I agree with the gist of this thread: that most people spend very little time shopping for a car that suits their needs. At minimum, I make a point of taking or renting the car I’m considering home, both to try stuffing it with our usual detritus–including said child seats–and taking it on a long drive to gauge how the seats hold up over the long haul. On about hour three of a drive, most of the deal-breakers have already shown their faces.
People make carte-blanche assumptions (small cars are cramped, small cars get good mileage, big SUVs have a lot of space). That they do this on what is their second-largest capital purchase is terrifying.
A Trailblazer for a Mini, then not happy about the lack of space?
sound like someone lacked INSIGHT before their purchase!
you got what you deserved!
When I was selling Fords I had a lady trade an older Dynasty on a slightly used base Focus. She came back the week later complaining of the crank windows. I honestly never thought to tell her, it seemed quite obvious at the time.
As for child safety seats I agree. The new ones are huge. We just had a new baby and the car seat barely fits in our daily driver (Focus) and only by putting the passenger seat forward. It will not go in the middle but must be used in the outboard seats. Our 99 4Runner isn’t much better so thats why I will be asking Mr Lang to find me a low mileage Taurus X. Need the space, fuel economy is OK for the size
so….no comment on an ‘affordable’ Mini or a Stripped ‘Beetle’….
This must part of the ‘American Dream’ thing that ‘real’ people don’t buy cheap cars.
Maybe not on this forum…….
and as to the comment about roll up windows being ‘passe’
try $300 when they fail…
“Whats in your wallet”
I guess snobs rule the internet now…
and as to the the comparison to a ‘Fit’
Get real..
Could these people get financed on one??????
When I sat in an Aveo I was fairly impressed. I guess people have different perceptions.
My Saturn ION has crank windows.
Suburban all the way
crank windows fail about as often as manual transmissions do, almost never.
Back when I bought my second Miata, I didn’t want power windows but they came with the package I wanted. They never failed on me, but the previous miata had the cranks and it took about 3 revolutions to get the tiny window down.
Also, if you haven’t tried some of the really nice manual seats that come in some of the cars these days, you are missing out. They can be easier and smoother than the powered ones.
Judging by the article and some of the comments the market for cheap, plain economy vehicles big ro small will not likely rise again in America unless our economic depression makes them necessary.
I don’t mind manual adjustments to seats, mirrors or windows. I wouldn’t mind an Aveo if the darn thing got 35 mpg and would last 150K miles without many failures.
Tough to live in a country where the dumbest citizen affect my future through bailout programs, tax rates, poor shopping habits, and poor credit choices.
No wonder Wal-mart is doing so well selling Chinese stuff to us regardless of what that is doing to our economy long term.
No sympathy from me for these people. I’ve got big miles on our vehicles and remain quite content with them – I knew what I wanted and I knew what i was getting and where there were surprises I have learned to cope.
Road/wind/engine noise are the only things I’m unhappy with and this has increased with the age of the vehicle as the door seals have shrunk.
Mileages are: 155K, 167K, 198K, 121K.