Mining of Ford’s microsite (MICROSITE!) extravaganza – which gave us substantial info about the 2010 Fusion – has proven useful again. Now Ford has released what are at least preliminary data for the 2011 Fiesta – which should be on sale some time in the next 12 months (but when? and why not in the last 12 months?). The microsite (MICROSITE!) says “on the pavement in early 2010”
Engine will be the 1.6 liter Ti-VCT 4-banger. In Europe this engine has 118 horsepower. Ti-VCT apparently indicates twin independent variable cam timing. I assume some of TTAC’s engineering oriented readers will tell the rest of us if that’s significant or something that Yugo has been doing since 1959.
Transmission to be a Ford “Powershift” automatic – that’s a dual clutch gearbox. We blogged about this transmission in the Focus here. No word if a traditional stick will come to North America. Cue frustration, comments about “no stick no buy.” For the record, I love my DSG.
Stuff – Microsoft SYNC, Bluetooth, leather seats, standard electronic stability control. Also the Fiesta will offer “up to” seven airbags (dual front, thorax, curtain, and driver’s knee), and the use of the “up to” phrase means the value stripped out cars on dealer lots won’t have ’em.
Given that Honda’s first car did not come until 1963 (S500), I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Honda has not been doing this since 1959.
But its still not new; this is probably just variable valve timing for both intake and exhaust valves. This is common on most four-cylinders now, and done via hydraulic movement (via oil pressure) of the cam profile (via a sprocket with internal chambers) in relation to the timing chain/belt. A great video of the new GEMA Mitsubishi 4B11 illustrates this:
The VVT section starts at 7:33 (I mention this as the video as its over 10 minutes long, so unless you are complete gearhead – like myself- you can just watch this).
As to the Fiesta, I’ll say it: no third pedal, no sell!
Ah, could I hve the Linux equivalent to the Microsoft SYNC? Thanks…
Will be giving this car a look when the time comes. The DSG sounds great but I worry about reliability issues at 150K miles+
I’m critical of a lot of what Ford does but I think this car is a winner. It looks great, will have outstanding fuel economy, and will be cheap. I would wager that the reliability will be very competetive as well. With the Pontiac Aveo on the market and the Cruze not coming out unitl 2011, it is actually coming out at a good time, even with falling gas prices.
In theory (at least in engineer-land), a DSG should be more reliable than a conventional manual because it takes the nut behind the wheel out of the equation. With modern electronics as (un)reliable as they are, if the whole car lasts to 150k miles I’d say that’s a pretty good run?
“But its still not new; this is probably just variable valve timing for both intake and exhaust valves. This is common on most four-cylinders now, and done via hydraulic movement (via oil pressure) of the cam profile (via a sprocket with internal chambers) in relation to the timing chain/belt.”
Indeed. Continuously variable cam phasing is pretty standard even on economy engines in Europe, and increasingly so on both cams. Sounds fancy but is nothing particularly out of the ordinary for this class – the main benefit is for economy, not power.
The Fiesta’s specs make it a strong performer, oh and the styling looks good too. By the way Ford’s website also showed it as a 4 door with hatch.
No other subcompact offers dual variable valve timing or dual clutch gearbox, which by the way will offer 6 gears. I’m a shift your own guy myself and I have no problem with a dual clutch setup, I would actually prefer it.
The Fusion was just updated and once the next gen Focus and Taurus-restyling arrives Ford will have a very solid passenger car lineup, not to mention crossover and truck lines. I’m really digging their focus on product.
RE: joeaverage
The DSG sounds great but I worry about reliability issues at 150K miles+
You have to remember there are reliability concerns with all cars and all transmission types when you get into mileage this high.
Well, the site doesn’t mention anything about how OMIGOD I WANT ONE GIVE IT TO ME and how it’s one of the clearest signs that at least one of the Big 3 “gets it.” It’s a real product, it’s coming our way, it isn’t just a bunch of fancy-schmancy vaporware, and I can’t wait to sit behind the wheel of one of these little cars.
Early ’10 seems a little late to the party. I was hoping to see the 2L engine as an option. I wonder if Mazda will have the 2 over here by then. I own a 3 but want something smaller and lighter. In both of the surveys I’ve done for Mazda so far, I begged them to bring the 2 to North America, so I’ve done my part.
I don’t know about the dual clutch thing. Seems like VW is the only one who does it right. Question: if you let off the throttle at speed does it engine brake or does it coast? If I was going to buy something with a dual clutch setup it would have to be easy to coast for fuel economy.
Could someone explain what this dual clutch thing is? All I know about is that Chrysler won’t be having any.
While I have issues with the color, that is one sharp looking subcompact. Beats the new Fit, imo, at least in the looks department. Certainly better than the Yaris.
bts:
By the way Ford’s website also showed it as a 4 door with hatch.
Ford’s website is showing a Euro spec car. US spec debuts at NAIAS in Detroit in January, if the even actually takes place. I am pretty sure the 5-door hatch is coming to the U.S., also the Fiesta sedan that just debuted in China. No idea about the 3-door.
toxicroach
Could someone explain what this dual clutch thing is?
In practical terms, it’s like an automatic except very, very very fast. And the input from the tiptronic-style +/- system, in my GTI’s dual clutch transmission, is lightning quick.
Way faster than a good shifter could do it on their own, better MPGs, and very good control. Not as good as a real stick obviously, but very good anyway.
Holy crap the Fiesta has a dual clutch?! This car has some major technological firepower. I’ll agree with the duke’s “no third pedal, no sell”, but for anyone who wants an automatic this is great news. Hopefully Ford doesn’t screw up on the marketing; this should prove to be quite a popular car.
In impractical terms, the basic principle is that, unlike a normal manual, you have two input shafts, one inside the other – one has all the odd-numbered gears (1, 3, 5, 7 if applicable), and another the even-numbered ones (2, 4, 6 and reverse). The idea is that, because it works as a sequential ‘box, one of the clutches always has the right gear preselected.
It works, too. I think they will kill off manuals almost completely within 15-20 years, because of the twin pressures of increasing demand for what manufacturers refer to as ‘high-comfort transmissions’ (i.e. self-shifters), and the required leaps in efficiency over the next few years as consumption comes into vogue in a big way. Conventional slushboxes are now refined to a high level in terms of comfort, but the efficiency penalty is punitive and will only hurt them further in future years. An automated manual setup, like BMW’s SMG or Fiat’s Selespeed, is highly efficient, but the comfort level is still not quite there. Dual-clutch gearboxes bring together the benefits of both – sooner rather than later I believe that for most mainstream cars, they will be the default choice.
Actually, after reading Justin’s news post on the Powershift that he linked to, the overall gist is that it sucks. I think I’ll jump on the No Stick No Buy bandwagon.
In Europe this engine has 118 horsepower.
My understanding is that they use higher octane gas on average (UK is about 100), so what does that translate to in 87-octane terms? Obviously it’s less, but by how much?
Re: the no-stick/no-clutch-pedal folks — this isn’t really an enthusiasts’ car. Especially in the US, we like our automatics. Self-shifters are a rare bunch, usually bargain hunters and speed freaks.
@ maniceightball: I believe the US and Europe use a different measure of octane, so your 87 is roughly equivalent to European 95 RON.
This is a Mazda 2, in essence. I prefered the previous Fiesta styling, but this is probably the better car. Ford have a lot riding on this little fella.
I don’t understand why people wouldn’t like this gearbox over a manual. It’s quicker, the clutch is automated so you don’t have to work your left leg and, as far as I could understand of how it works, it as regular manual that you have to work sequentially when in the manual mode – is that so bad?
I do understand the preference of manual over a traditional automatic gearbox though.
Ford did one thing smarter than the others from Detroit. It recognized it’s engineering deficit and started using Mazda engineering. This car is essentially a Japanese subcompact, something that Detroit could never do and still can’t, it will give them a big leg up. I might consider one of these if it comes with a stick.
To Autobraz. Those comments reflect someone who doesn’t enjoy driving manual. Many of us do. All my cars have been manual. It might have started out as thrift or speed, but after a while it becomes the simple joy of exercising a well practiced skill.
I am far into the no clutch, no buy club. The only circumstance where I would get a sequential computer controlled manual, is if I were a competitive racer and the faster shifts mattered. I am not, and they don’t, so I just want to enjoy the simple pleasure of shifting for myself.
Now I do understand. Very well explained Bytor. Thanks.
Pricing will be an issue for Ford, because with the Focus at $15K, Americans rarely like to pay more for a smaller car.
It’ll be interesting to see if this competes with the Fit and Mini in the $18-20K range or the Aveo and Rio in the $10-12K range.
I hope Ford is able to convince buyers the Fiesta is worth the extra cash. It will set a great precedent in the market.
Bytor, I thought this car was engineered by Ford of Europe in Germany for both Ford and Mazda to use. I don’t think there’s any Japanese anywhere in it.
I hope they kill the Focus when they bring the Fiesta over.
“The Mazda 2 platform serves as the base for the European Ford Fiesta”
http://www.automobilemag.com/new_and_future_cars/0811_2010_mazda_2_cars_we_need_now/index.html
As indicated everywhere. New Mazda2 is the basis for the new Fiesta.
Ford may have had involvment, but Ford was essentially saved by the purchase of Mazda and usage of Mazda engineering. These “Joint” efforts are essentially Mazda engineering from all appearances. Ford like all the big 3 couldn’t build a subcompact to save their lives.
@Bytor:
It really isn’t just a rebadged Mazda2 or a Japanese subcompact. They share a basic platform, but that was a decision made before the car began development. It truly was jointly developed.
The two are similar, but drive differently from what people say.
I realize the website is of the euro version, but if that interior makes it to the States, they may have a hit on their hands. It just reeks of coolness.
Demetri:
Early ‘10 seems a little late to the party.
No pun intended…right Demetri?
“Ford like all the big 3 couldn’t build a subcompact to save their lives.”
Ford Europe was building competitive small cars before the Mazda tie-up … and don’t forget that Ford saved Mazda from extinction not once, but twice.
Ford did one thing smarter than the others from Detroit. It recognized it’s engineering deficit and started using Mazda engineering
Bytor, that is not completely true. Mazda uses a LOT of Ford’s resources that they (Mazda) wouldn’t have had otherwise. A good number of Ford engineers and designers have worked on various Mazda models. It isn’t a one-way street where Ford benefits from a Japanese company because its own engineers are less innovative.
Yeah, derm81, where would Mazda be without re-badged Rangers and Escapes?
(sorry, couldn’t resist)
;-)
“Ford like all the big 3 couldn’t build a subcompact to save their lives.”
The 1996-2002 Mazda 121 was a straight rebadge of the European-designed Ford Fiesta, with just a different grille and a strip of black plastic at the back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_121
I do hope they bring a manual to the US, preferably a 6 speed. However, we have to realize this is more a basic transportation car than it is a MINI fighter (at least it seems to me to be that way). Most people looking for a solid, cheap commuter are going to get an automatic. However, I hear how much fun the little FIT is, so it might be nice for Ford to compete with them by offering a manual.
As far as the DSG, for those who want an automatic, they’re great. I’ve had my new GTI for 3 months now, and I got it with the DSG after driving nothing but manuals for 12 years. Main reason was that I really liked everything about the GTI but the clutch was terrible for me. Hated it. Being the DSG was not quite a slushy auto (its very responsive and shifts fast as lightning) I shelled out the extra grand for the DSG and brought the GTI home. Like I said, 3 months, in Chicago (my previous manuals were a Miata and two Mazda 626s), I drove manuals on the freeway every day in traffic. Its a superb transmission for its intended purpose, but I already know I’m never buying an automatic/DSG/no-clutch-pedal car ever again. I miss it so bad. There just isn’t anything in the world that can replicate ripping down an on-ramp and grabbing the next gear, or perfectly downshifting coming into a corner, or taking off from a stop light with just a bit of wheelspin. DSG is impressive during a test drive, and if you want an automatic there is nothing better, but no matter how much technology or how much people try to sell you, it is no replacement for a true manual.
I love the car, and I’m still glad I have the GTI with the DSG and not the manual, but next time, I will find a car that offers a great driving experience AND has a great manual transmission. The only car out there that came close (besides a Miata) for the price was a MINI. Great manual with perfect pedal placement. Unfortunately it was going to be more expensive, for less content, and the MINI’s interior ergonomics are truly bizarre. Didn’t care for a Civic. Unfortunately that is how its going to be for us manual lovers. Choices dwindling, combined with the fact automakers are not going to put a lot of time and effort, and development work into the manuals they do make, pushing more people to automatics, so less development and fewer models with manuals, and around the circle goes.
I just hope maybe next time I’ll have the scratch for a BMW. I miss rear drive too :)
So, what did they do? Tie up all the beancounters and lock them in the closet whilst they designed this car?
Previous poster was right, in a sense. “Ford and all the big three can’t make a small car (for the American market on which thay can make money) to save their lives.”
Well, they now appear to be betting that this car will save their life….
Looks likea good competitor in the Fit/Yaris/Versa subcompact market and is consdierably better looking, at least in the “3-door” hatch version. Hopefully, people give it a chance because it looks like it could be the best car out there for many people. I also wish they offered it with a manual transmission, but I understand that there is little demand for a stick anymore, and it may not have made economic sense.