As Farago wrote, the Caravan of Love broke down before it even left Motown. Supposedly, it went virtual, and took the information superhighway instead of routes 76 and 70 as even the most half-witted GPS would recommend. Jeez, they can’t even do what a 3 year old can do in 10 minutes: Build a website. TheEngineOfDemocracy.com displays the dreaded “Our site is currently under construction.” It promises: “We will be back online Monday, December 1st as promised.” What do they mean with “back?” Where they ever on-line before?
And then, that logo: I bet, trademark lawyers in Wolfsburg are right this minute arguing with Volkswagen top management: “We recommend sending a cease and desist. They are diluting our Autostadt mark.” “It might not be politically expedient. They’ll say we hate them.” “If you don’t send the letter, we may lose our mark.” Anyway, the thing on the site looks terribly like Volkswagen’s Autostadt logo. The Autostadt logo looks back at a long line of German Heritage: It was purloined from Volkswagen’s New Beetle, which was inspired by the old VW Bug, which was ordered by old Adolf himself. But at least: It was all in the family. The Engine Of Democracy: In the ass, and cooled by hot air?
Looks more like an Audi TT to me. They should at least use a shape that looks vaguely American.
While I see a slight resemblance to the Autostradt logo, I don’t know if it is enough to cross the line on trademark infringement. Besides, unless the Autostradt logo is trademarked in the US, I don’t believe they have any recourse. I’m no trademark lawyer, though.
No need to file in the U.S. The U.S. and Germany are “first use” countries. I’ve been around trademarks all my life and would immediately call my lawyers if I’d own the top one. If it’s trademarked (as in registered) in any country, I would have to call my lawyers. A trademark holder is by law required to vigorously defend his mark against dilution.
honestly i’m not too persuaded. this is what all car sketches look like – it’s a modern aerodynamics issue.
If it’s trademarked (as in registered) in any country, I would have to call my lawyers. A trademark holder is by law required to vigorously defend his mark against dilution.
You’re required to defend it to the extent that not doing so would constitute abandoning the mark. You aren’t punished for reasonable discretion in not suing everyone with anything remotely similar. And you aren’t required by law to file frivolous lawsuits.
Hey, Henry Ford loved Adolf Hitler and Mein Kompf, and GM was a huge supporter of the early Nazi German war machine through Opel. And let’s not talk about what the Germans did to Chrysler. If the big-3 lobbyists want to steal a German logo then I think the Germans owe it to them.
Speaking of Hitler, I am absolutely shocked that the big-3 lobbyists have not yet compared letting the big-3 fail* to the Holocaust ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law ). Maybe they are saving that for next week.
*Go through prepackaged government supported Chapter 11 reorganizations: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorial-gm-death-watch-219-gm-prepackaged-reorganization/
@Justin: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/11/godzilla-terror.html
The question is not whether you abandon the mark. The question is whether you allow dilution. The test for dilution is whether the average consumer gets confused by similar marks.
The average consumer gets quite easily confused …..
With all due respect, I think you are a little over the top worrying about a logo. Of autostadt. Whatever that is.
And a 3 year old can build a web site in 10 minutes?
Easy tiger.
Bridge2far:
Yep, there’s enough out-of-the-box CMS’s and turnkey solutions for turkeys that yes, a 3-year old could quite possibly do that. Doesn’t say much for my line of work, but hey…
Good ideas are good ideas, even if invented by Hitler. How much better a place the world would be if the source was less important than the results.
Bertel Schmitt:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/11/godzilla-terror.html
The question is not whether you abandon the mark. The question is whether you allow dilution. The test for dilution is whether the average consumer gets confused by similar marks.
You’re confused about the law and arguing with a lawyer (which is bound to make you only more confused). What you originally said is:
A trademark holder is by law required to vigorously defend his mark against dilution.
This is wrong. There is no legal requirement to defend a trademark – at least in the U.S. I can’t speak to trademark laws in other countries.
I didn’t suggest that abandoning a trademark is the test of whether or not you can sue for infringement.
But, as I said above, when a trademark holder abandons a trademark, claiming dilution becomes much harder. So when you say “dilution is the test” you have to understand that dilution is looked at contextually. In fact, the Wired article you sent demonstrates that.
As I see it, it’s really unlikely that a claim by Autostadt could survive under US law. The Autostadt image has 3 lines; the Engine of Democracy image has 5. Two of the lines in each are wheels, so since both sketches are depicting a car, that’s non-proprietary and non-unique to Autostadt. The third line in Autostadt’s image is the roofline. Merely having a roofline isn’t enough, since that’s on all cars. The length of the line, thickness, and shape of the arc are all different from the roofline in the Engine of Democracy image.
Finally, what about all the other minimalist sketches of the profile of cars? Nissan heavily relied on the 2-line sketch of the new Z car a few years ago. This type of teaser image is common.
Don’t you guys have some cars to review?
The only “American” car that looks remotely like the sketch is the Crossfire.
The Autostadt logo is brilliant, intuitive. Not merely a car shape, but one arch supported by two arches, a subtle tip of the hat to engineering, design, and perhaps even Picasso. Picasso would never use five lines to make a point, where three would do the job….better.
Feel free to object with my interpretation, but to me there is simply a lot more thought/content/weight in the Autostadt symbol.
I checked out the Wikipedia article on trademark dilution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_dilution
From what I read (I know it isn’t the authoritative source) it wouldn’t look like Autostadt would have much, if any, case.
@Justin: In my line of work, I am continuously surrounded by trademark lawyers. Recently, I registered a trademark for a first aid kit. The trademark was challenged by Johnson & Johnson. Not because mine did even remotely look like theirs. It did not. They challenged it because somewhere in my mark there was some red. Johnson & Johnson claimed rights to red. Totally silly. But faced with the legal costs of a 5 year battle over the proprietoryness of the color of red, we gave up and chose another color. For years, I advised VW in certain trademark matters. I made them trademark the terms ‘Volkswagen Service (R)’ and “Volkswagen Original Parts (R)” because in the wake of new EU law, others than VW may provide Volkswagen Service and sell Original Volkswagen parts. I have a little experience in these matters. And dilution is not the test. Confusion is. Confusion can lead to dilution. Both pictures look confusingly similar. A good trademark lawyer could make a painfully expensive case. The saving grace is that VW is notoriously lax in defending its marks. A Johnson & Johnson would have long sent a C & D.
Legalese aside: Can’t we expect from the true blue engine of democracy to come up with something vaguely original? Instead of something that is at home with Volkswagen, or, as you said, Nissan?
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if VW went after them. I have a toy VW on my website, painted by my niece a la Grateful Dead. A year and a half ago, or so, I started getting nasty letters from a law firm in Salt Lake City in VW’s employ. Although I had done absolutely nothing wrong, the whole episode cost me about $500 in lawyers fees to get the VW lawyers off of my back.
I75 to I80 at Toledo,
to I76 at Youngstown,
to I79 at Pittsburgh,
to I68 at Morgantown,
to I70 at Hagerstown,
to I270 at Fredrick,
to Wisconsin Ave at Rockville
Interesting fact, Hitler didn’t just order the VW (and then took it away from the people, who didn’t get their deposits refunded, naturally) but he had a strong hand in the design and approval of the final product. Ass-engined Nazi slot car indeed. But don’t tell the hippies, they won’t hear you over the screams of baby polar bears.
Hitler in no way “invented” that shape.
Porsche’s earlier designs that led to the eventual Beetle well precede Hitler’s involvement with the VW. And they all had that shape, more or less. It was THE shape of aerodynamically influenced cars at the time, and everyone was doing it.
It’s about like saying the emperor of Japan invented the Corolla.
Actually Porsche took the design of the VW from Tatra’s T97
Landcrusher wrote:
“Good ideas are good ideas, even if invented by Hitler.”
After all, even a broken clock gives the correct time twice per day.
And don’t forget the “beetles” made by Mercedes.
@Robert Schwartz: Yup, that story is legend. Along with the (somewhat apocryphal) story that Adolf settled Tatra’s lawsuit by invading Czechoslovakia … anyway, even Tatra got DM3m in (then) valuable foreign currency out of the brawl – some 20 years later. Did I mention that intellectual property fights can be protracted and expensive? The 3 mil Deutschmark probably all ended up in the pockets of German lawyers. Adolf wasn’t big on inventing shapes. The young Hitler was a prolific, but nonetheless unsuccessful graphic artist. The only shape he was truly interested in was that of the Reich’s borders. That re-design turned out to be a huge failure too.
@David Holzman: You must have bugged them …
This is wrong. There is no legal requirement to defend a trademark – at least in the U.S. I can’t speak to trademark laws in other countries.
That’s true, but the Federal Trade Commission’s attempt to cancel Formica’s trademark in the late 1970s because of generic use by retailers cost Formica a lot of money in legal maneuvering. They voluntarily gave up their Lanham Act trademark registration and the case continues to be studied in both law schools and marketing firms as a case of genericide.
I think that case made owners of trademarks and other IP become very aggressive in defending, perhaps expanding their IP rights, particularly regarding small scale infringement or something skirting the edge of actual infringement. I think it’s also explained a lot of IP owners bullying websites with takedown orders, like David Holzman described with the picture of the painted VW bus.
Bertel, I agree with Justin. The standard is likelihood of confusion. I know that justice is blind but the jury would literally have to have lost their eyesight to not tell the difference between the two logos.
Legalese aside: Can’t we expect from the true blue engine of democracy to come up with something vaguely original? Instead of something that is at home with Volkswagen, or, as you said, Nissan?
But if it’s so generic, how can it cause confusion?
Actually Porsche took the design of the VW from Tatra’s T97
@Robert Schwartz: Yup, that story is legend. Along with the (somewhat apocryphal) story that Adolf settled Tatra’s lawsuit by invading Czechoslovakia … anyway, even Tatra got DM3m in (then) valuable foreign currency out of the brawl – some 20 years later. Did I mention that intellectual property fights can be protracted and expensive? Adolf wasn’t big on inventing shapes. The young Hitler was a prolific, but nonetheless unsuccessful graphic artist. The only shape he was truly interested in was that of the Reich’s borders. That re-design turned out to be a huge failure too.
Like many legends the story is not entirely true. The irony of saying that Porsche stole the idea of the Volkswagen from Tatra, is that Porsche, Tatra and Hitler all stole the design and name of the Volkswagen, even the nickname Beetle from Josef Ganz, a Jewish automotive writer and engineer, whose Standard Superior, a car that he literally called a volkswagen, was displayed at the International Auto und Motorrad Ausstellung in Berlin in 1933. Hitler saw the car there and reportedly expressed interest in it’s design and low price.
Ganz was a respected engineer. While working for the Adler motorcycle company, he helped design BMW’s first car, the AM1, and consulted on the Mercedes 170. Also while at Adler, he designed a volkswagen prototype and called it the Maikäfer (May beetle). Standard Fahrzeugfabrik used Ganz’patents to build their ST
The Gestapo arrested him in 1934 and he fled to Switzerland. His patents were transferred to Tatra, then run by Hans Ledwinka, a Volksdeutsch engineer. Ledwinka and Porsche spoke frequently and Porsche liberally borrowed some of the ideas the Ledwinka stole from Ganz. Tatra sued Porsche and he settled.
http://www.josef-ganz.com/index.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4GpRu6foHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaShgyVTh9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kd7W62fDQQ
I hope that none and doubt that any of you has ever been in serious trademark or copyright litigation. It takes very deep pockets and typically bankrupts the lesser heeled before the case even reaches a jury. All I can tell you is this: If I would be associated with Compuware Corporation, One Campus Martius, Detroit, MI 48226 and therefore run (perish the thought) TheTruthAboutDemocray.com, and if I would receive a takedown notice, I’d quickly set course for the DMCA safe harbor and put up another picture. Unless someone else pays my legal bills, that is. Having said that, I continue being amazed that Compuware (“We make IT rock around the world”) can’t come up with a halfway decent site in the 5 minutes it takes to marry WordPress with phpBB. I exaggerate? O.k., 8 minutes then. My take: A) They have nothing to say. B) They are afraid of what the rest of the world would post on their board. And since when is Compuware in the astroturfing business?
@Ronnie: Very interesting. I had never heard THAT story. Guess that comes from having been too close to VW for most of my life. Thank you for this contribution.
“@Robert Schwartz: Yup, that story is legend.”
I provided a link to the support for the story. Do you have any support for your assertion?
Robert,
I think he meant in the sense that it’s legendary, i.e. well known, not that it’s a myth.
Bertel,
I didn’t know about Ganz until recently. From the looks of it, he was a pretty good engineer (those BMW and Mercedes models he consulted on were historically significant), though I suspect the Nazis did a thorough job of wiping his name out of German automotive history. I’m trying my hand at the Deutsches Patent und Markenamt site to see first if I can find the disputed Tatra/Porsche patents, and then to see if Ganz’ original filings are still on record.
@Ronnie: It might take a trip to Munich and a search through dusty files.
Bertel Schmitt :
@Justin: In my line of work, I am continuously surrounded by trademark lawyers. Recently, I registered a trademark for a first aid kit. The trademark was challenged by Johnson & Johnson. Not because mine did even remotely look like theirs. It did not. They challenged it because somewhere in my mark there was some red. Johnson & Johnson claimed rights to red. Totally silly. But faced with the legal costs of a 5 year battle over the proprietoryness of the color of red, we gave up and chose another color.
Well, when good people (companies are just made up of people) won’t fight for what’s right, then we all lose.
You should have fought for Red. Nobody’s willing to fight for Red anymore.
Next, they’ll make Robert remove the Red graphic at the top of the TTAC site, and maybe even the Red fonts and that round Red “X” at the top of the post-entry window.
Or maybe some other (expletive deleted) manager/executive/lawyer/company will decide that we can’t use black or blue. Or white backgrounds. Will we fight for Black or Blue, or White? Or will we abandon them too, like we did Red?
Oh, hell; let’s just dump the use of the English language while we’re at it. Too much usage of that “+” sign.
When the polls ask me if I think the country is going in the “wrong direction,” I’m one of the guys who says “HELL YES!”. But they never ask the common-sense follow up question, which is “what direction is the right direction?”
Interesting. When I don’t see a post that I just entered, I can type a short second post and my first post will often appear. It’s just unfortunate that I can’t immediately delete the second post.
ZoomZoom,
Just close your browser and reopen it. That usually works for me.
Well, I’ve submitted MY story. I hope they like it.
I’m often amazed at what gets published on FastLane (it’s like they have a mole paid by Toyota working there, sometimes). Something tells me I’m not going to be surprised at all by any content on TheEngineOfDemocracy.com.