Yesterday, we took Autobloggreen (ABG) to task for running a thinly-veiled pimpatorial for the new Mercedes-Benz GL320 BlueTec. Their post was disguised as a celebrity trend piece, supposedly informing eco-readers that Hollywood eco-warriors were exchanging their Priora for an equally PC Mercedes-Benz GL320 BlueTec diesel. We so busted them, from the manufacturer’s plates on the carefully-posed cheesecake shot’s whip, to the fact that ABG printed the entire MB press release verbatim. And now, surprise! They’re reviewing the Mercedes-Benz GL320 BlueTec. And do they like it? What do you think? But there is humor here, to be sure. “The garish graphics on the GM hybrid SUVs scream out to the world, ‘look I bought a hybrid! even though I’m still driving alone in an a 6,000 lb, seven passenger SUV!’ The Mercedes, on the other hand, only has discreet BlueTec badges on the front fenders and the tailgate. Aside from that and the GL320 badge, there is no other indication that this vehicle can get mileage in the mid-20s.” Whoa! Mid-20s? In an SUV? ABG’s planet saving mission is go! With 11k worth of options, no less…
“Part of the nearly $11,000 in options on this particular GL320 was the adaptive damping system. Unlike some systems, switching from normal to comfort or sport modes actually made a noticeable difference,” Sam Abuelsamid reports. “While the comfort was perhaps a bit wallowy feeling on some undulating surfaces, it was definitely helpful when dropping my son at school.”
It’s nice to see that Autoblog’s house style– counteract any criticism with an immediate compliment– has made it to their sister site. Anyway, as Lord Humongous said, “no more games!” Let’s get down to the serious bsuiness of justifying driving this behemoth instead of something with serious mpg.
“If you actually find yourself with a need to carry up to six other people with you and tow nearly four tons, and you have a budget commensurate with this level of luxury, the GL320 may be your best option. It offers fuel consumption that’s equal to or better than anything with its capabilities. The GL is not inexpensive with an as-tested price tag of $69,815 including delivery. Even at that elevated price point, it’s still nearly $4,500 less than the base price of the all-wheel-drive Escalade hybrid. Plus you won’t have to pester the dealer to remove those silly stickers.”
True. But even so, I call sell-out.
Where we need to see Diesels in the US is cars, especially small cars. Look over in Europe where you can buy subcompacts that get 60-75 MPG with their small-displacement turbo-Diesels.
But no… the manufacturers are stuck in this mental rut… “Americans only want trucks.”
Bullshit. Right now Americans want fuel economy first. Everyone who honestly WANTS a truck in the USA already owns one. So hey Mercedes, keep your G-class BlueTecs and send over a few A-through E-class iterations and see what happens.
Same goes for Alfa, BMW, Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, MINI, Toyota, etc. Why give VW an entire market segment for the past decade? Monopoly markets make for lousy choices and stagnant development. But if you’ve wanted a small Diesel in the USA since the 90s it has been VW, or nothing.
As for Autoblog? Chase the dream, not the competition.
–chuck
Chuck is on to something here with the <$25k Diesel compact being under served.
I was looking online at used VW TDIs yesterday, and they are are like the Prius in their lack of depreciation. I shopped the VWs when I bought my Jeep CRD, but I was turned off by VWs reputation for bad dealers and expensive sole source parts.
Can you imagine a good small car like the Fit, Xb or 3 with a good 1.5-2L Diesel.
Priora? As in Lada Priora?!! WTF?!
“If you actually find yourself with a need to carry up to six other people with you and tow nearly four tons…”
Right. Because that’s exactly what’s happening with these. Owners will always make sure they are carrying six other passengers whilst towing 4 tons of boat or horses or something. GL320 owners are like Native Americans, using every part of the car, because to waste would be to insult the earth mother.
Reality is that dad is taking this to Lowes, or mom is taking it to the store. Alone. Getting 20mpg instead of 16mpg. Woopee, energy crisis solved! Next problem!
I’d like to see a turbo diesel used in a full hybrid drive train.
Right now the hybrids get fantastic mileage around town on their electric motors, but when they hit the highway its back to so so mileage from the old petrol engine.
Imagine instead a small turbo diesel getting 50-60 mpg highway plus the electric getting you 50mpg around town.
But I guess first we should try and get more diesel cars in the US period, and then worry about the fancy hybrid drive train.
I’d like to see a turbo diesel used in a full hybrid drive train.
And I’d like Mr Fusion power. :-)
The reality is that it is now as expensive to build a clean diesel drivetrain as a hybrid drivetrain. So instead of $3000 premium for either, you are looking at a $6000 premium for both, yet you are getting diminishing returns on efficiency.
Aside from that and the GL320 badge, there is no other indication that this vehicle can get mileage in the mid-20s.”
Or you could, you know, get a Ford Flex, which drives about as well, fits people more comfortably, is about as quick, and gets close to that mileage. And costs less than a third of the GL.
And then there’s the Highlander Hybrid, again much cheaper and much more fuel efficient. Or the RX400h, which is about as expensive and still cheaper to run, especially in the city.
Right. Because that’s exactly what’s happening with these. Owners will always make sure they are carrying six other passengers whilst towing 4 tons of boat or horses or something.
Spot on. Not that this is a bad car–it’s probably torquey, luxurious and capable–but it’s not a “green” car. Of course, this is AutoblogGreen, the site that still thinks ethanol has a future, fails to understand the difference between European and American mileage figures and, every month or so, trots out how the latest European microcar (seats four, as long as two are amputees) absolutely destroys the Prius.
@RedStapler: I don’t think the average Fit (or $15K subcompact) buyer would be interested paying extra for the diesel powertrain + $3/gallon fuel (today).
I’d like to see a turbo diesel used in a full hybrid drive train.
There’s some problems with this:
* Diesels don’t handle idle-stop as well.
* The optimum powerband for a diesel doesn’t mesh as well with electric motors (both supply good low-end grunt; both peter out at high RPM)
* Diesels are complex and expensive. You need costly, heavy-duty blocks, heads and gaskets, ultra-high pressure injectors and emissions controls.
* Diesel is still relatively dirty
At best, you might see diesel hybrids with systems like GM BAS or Honda’s IMA that act as efficiency boosters (much like locomotives). Full parallel or series hybrid drive is probably not going to happen.
Right now the hybrids get fantastic mileage around town on their electric motors, but when they hit the highway its back to so so mileage from the old petrol engine.
Not true. The Camry and Altima hybrids both get much better highway mileage than their “normal” four-cylinder counterparts. The difference isn’t as dramatic, but it’s still significant. The hybrid drivetrain, as long as it has charge, is always assisting the drive wheels. And it has charge more often than people think.
Right now the GL320 and GL450 would cost me the same to drive. If the difference in price between diesel and gas comes closer the diesel would cost less.
Look over in Europe where you can buy subcompacts that get 60-75 MPG with their small-displacement turbo-Diesels.
And they’re cars so small that we’d make fun of them if they were sold here, their mileage is exaggerated (just like diesels here), and their performance is awful (remember when the dude tried to claim the Panda was the same class car as the Prius)?
“The Camry and Altima hybrids both get much better highway mileage than their “normal” four-cylinder counterparts. The difference isn’t as dramatic, but it’s still significant. The hybrid drivetrain, as long as it has charge, is always assisting the drive wheels. And it has charge more often than people think.”
Are you saying that the hybrid’s electric motor helps to improve *highway* mileage? How would that work? I think that any better highway mileage is due solely to a more efficient ICE.
chris724, the battery charges up a bit when you’re going downhill with energy that would otherwise be wasted, and then that energy is available when you’re going uphill – allowing the ICE to operate more efficiently.
Also, you would never tolerate the same car with just the gas engine – because it would take far too long to accelerate up to highway speed, even if that gas engine was marginally capable of keeping you cruising.
All nonsense aside, I do think it is a good thing that we are seeing more diesels stateside, even if we are getting the middle-of-the-road items (as in we don’t have the micro super efficient slugs, or the big honking turbo V8 luxo barges). It has to start somewhere, and if the Bluetecs are a foot in the door for diesel models, good. As long as you bring over more. With the better engines.
Last week’s Top Gear was an eye opener. I was astounded that May was getting 50 mpg from a Subaru Legacy diesel. Sure it’s probably a dull drive, but 50 mpg from a full sized station wagon? Wow. The only way you could equal that in a gas car of that size would be to make it of papier maché and give it the aerodynamics of the Concord.
Are you saying that the hybrid’s electric motor helps to improve *highway* mileage? How would that work? I think that any better highway mileage is due solely to a more efficient ICE.
Yup, that’s what we’re saying.
Unlike the Civic, the Camry and Altima aren’t using a dedicated powertrains. The Camry does use an Atkinson cycle, but it’s otherwise the standard Toyota 2.4L. The Altima’s 2.5 is unchanged from the base model. And yes, both post better highway numbers despite being heavier than their nonhybrid equivalents.
The current 50-60% premium of diesel fuel alone creates a huge barrier to small car diesels, except for the hard-core TDI crowd.
Actually, diesels make more sense in the larger SUV’s and trucks (as compared to small cars), as the proportionate amount of fuel saved is much greater when starting from a low base. This is also why diesel sales are dropping in Europe, primarily on the smaller cars.
As long as gasoline prices are cheap, diesel vehicle sales will be very limited.
Paul Niedermeyer: The current 50-60% premium of diesel fuel alone creates a huge barrier to small car diesels
Paul, you have no idea how shockingly cheap Diesel fuel is coming out of my barn. My last batch was WELL under a buck a gallon due to a combo of falling commodity prices and me finally doing MeOH recovery.
Yes, I realize I’m the edge case of edge cases, … the mother of all edge cases… but you have to admit that:
* Fuel prices vary over time.
* Diesel has historically been MUCH less expensive than gasoline, that only changed in the past 3 years.
* Diesel offers a range of alternative fuel sources that Gasoline can not even begin to match.
* The range of offerings of Diesel cars in the US has been paltry. Nobody but VW has made any effort here. MB has coughed up one E-class now and then, but otherwise it has been the VW-only show, and lately the Jetta-only show.
* Lack of consumer choice is bad. Bad for markets. Bad for prices (unless you want to sell your TDI on Craigslist!) Bad across the board. We have NO IDEA what sort of demand or desire there is for Diesel cars in the USA because they just plain are not available. Everyone has an opinion, but nobody has any facts. No data, no facts.
Most importantly:
* Making long term decisions based ONLY on conditions “right now” is something that in almost all other circumstances the writers and B&B of TTAC heap ridicule upon, and see as causation for various Death Watches … from GM, to SUVs, to Ethanol, to Tesla.
But somehow every time Diesel comes up, there is a collective flip-flop. A site-wide waffle. Go figure.
–chuck
I don’t think we will ever see diesel cheaper than regular gas. Once we went with ULSD, the price ramped up and shows no sign of retreating.
So the situation we have today is many ways is less in favor of diesel today. With the fuel costing a significant premium and clean diesel engines and emissions systems incurring a premium penalty as well.
Even when the premiums against diesel (both fuel and engines/emission components) didn’t exist, there was little growth amongst diesel vehicles, so it seems like there is even less incentive today.
The same diesel heads that wanted diesel before, want it today. There is essentially no movement.
I see more movement to hybrids for small and mid size cars.
I might consider a diesel but that will depend on their being an inexpensive model that can compete with gas cars on price. Which is unlikely. Does anyone expect a Diesel Golf to compete with a Mazda three on price.
I would never drive enough in 10 years to pay off the extra cost and really I like to rev, so I enjoy gas engines more.
Due to the huge leaps in gasoline direct injection technology, turbocharged gdi engines are already getting pretty much the same mpg numbers to similary sized tdi engines. Only with lower co2 numbers, wider/more usable powerband and similar low-end torque characteristics. Lots of examples 335i vs 335d, VAG 2.0TFSI vs 2.0TDI etc. Diesel hype and stories about diesel market share growth in the US is thing of the past.
The technology to make these pass US emissions is stunningly complex and will be stunningly expensive to maintain (IMHO) in the long run.
In other news, gas hit the 1.30s here today.