Ford has a hit on their hands with the Ford Fusion Hybrid– at least from a media standpoint. The autobogosphere is abuzz with the announcement of the gas – electric fusion Fusion’s official EPA stat of 41mpg. Of course, that’s 41mpg in the city and 36mpg on the highway. But a headline’s a headline. More interesting yet, the Fusion hybrid can motor up to 47mph on battery-power. According to Hybrid program leader Praveen Cherian, the extended all-EV mode “allows drivers to maximize fuel efficiently in many driving situations. For example, this would allow drivers to travel around their subdivision and parking areas in all-electric mode.” What’s the speed limit in a subdivision these days? And doesn’t everybody switch off the engine and glide into a parking space (sarcastic driver, closed parking lot)? I know: I’m just being churlish. This is exactly the kind of evolutionary, incremental improvement we’ve been arguing for since the site began. Now, can I be churlish some more?
“When set in tutorial mode, the instrument panel ‘grows’ leaves and vines on-screen to reward fuel-efficient driving. The more leaves and vines that appear, the more efficient the driving behavior is and the more fuel is being saved.”
Is that a killer app or a deal killer? Is cute the new macho? Methinks FoMoCo is of two minds here, as the relevant screen shot is conspicuous by its absence in the PR photo roster. Anyway, I don’t want to deny Detroit’s day in the sun, given the dark, brooding horizon. So here’s the geekery.
* Smaller, lighter nickel-metal hydride battery, which produces 20 percent more power than Ford’s previous hybrid system. The battery’s improved chemistry allows it to be run at a higher temperature and cooled using cabin air.
* New 2.5-liter 4-cylinder engine (155 horsepower / 136 lb.-ft. of torque), which is mated to an electronically controlled continuously variable transmission.
* Enhanced electronic throttle control, which reduces airflow on shutdowns, reducing fueling needs on restarts.
* Smart climate control system, which monitors cabin temperature and only runs the gas engine as needed to heat the cabin. It also includes an electric air conditioning compressor to further minimize engine use.
* Regenerative brake system, which captures the energy normally lost through friction in braking and stores it. Nearly 94 percent energy recovery is achieved by delivering full regenerative braking, which means only 6 percent of braking is through traditional friction brakes
I can see that 47mph silent running on batteries only coming in real handy for doing drive-by shootings. That’s an untapped niche market that Ford probably never even thought of when they created this car. All they need to do is get some rap stars and gangbangers to promote the vehicle to that market segment.
Oh but the safetyniks are already working on requirements that silent-running hybrids have to make noise so that pedestrians can hear them coming.
You can’t possibly blame Ford for this, but this could be the epitome of a great landing at the wrong airport. If the global finaciapocolypse persists for a few years, as it likely will, gas prices will stay low and this vehicle will be totally irrelevant.
So what is the MSRP going to be, and how long will it take Ford to recover their R&D costs?
And in other news; last night I filled up my wife’s 16 mpg, 4×4 Jeep for $1.49/ gal. :-)
From everything I see here it appears the Fusion Hyrbid could be the perfect hybrid sedan for a lot of people, especially if the price is right – it’s roomy enough and has more style than both the Camry and Prius. Now the question becomes will Ford survive to see this thing really take off?
As for the gas prices being low, I am certainly glad they are back down but I would not count on it being low long term.
Good for Ford. I hope it’s at least nearly as reliable as the Prion, and that people buy it.
The domestics can use all the media ‘Hits’ they can get these days. Having said that, this car should give Ford a desperately needed PR boost, and some real Green credentials. Now let’s see how they market it.
guyincognito, I still think the fuel price spikes(wallet beatings) of 2008 are still fresh in the minds of Americans. It’s a new day. I think consumers WILL buy practical, affordable, fuel efficient vehicles in greater numbers going forward…
“which means only 6% of braking is through traditional friction brakes”
Not actually. The 94% regen braking number means that under conditions where regen braking is available, the system is 94% efficient. But regen braking only works up to a point: when braking demand exceeds either the power conversion ability of the generator (hard braking) or exceeds the capacity of the battery, friction braking will be used. That will be much more than 6%, unless you drive like a little old lady (or are hypermiling).
The combined EPA number should be about 38 mpg; the new Prius will almost certainly break 50 mpg (combined).
This is very peculiar. The Volt is a promised car that has so much buzz and advertisements by GM. Ford quietly actually produces a car (rather than 100’s of press releases and advertisements and no real product).
Gas prices will most definitely go back up as it is inevitable. Calling a new hybrid great landing, wrong airport – need to do some research into volatility of gas prices.
I also know there’s a lot of those of us here who cheer the downfall of D2.8 products – but Ford has really separated themselves from GM and Chrysler as a company that may actually be able to recover (they still need CH11 to really pare down their weight and cut control of Ford family).
I think its wonderful. For my 18 mile commute on the local multi-million dollar limited access superhighways, i occasionally have wild scrambles to 50 mph, but it is rare. I could get to work on 25 cents a week. And its not as geeky as the toyota offering.
Ok – the leaves coming and going is a little dopey, but no more than watching a fake equalizer on a radio..
I do wonder how much it will cost.
And Airhen – i bet you were not so smug when gas was 5 bucks, which it could be at again tomorrow. Since no one seems to know why gas spiked in the first place,or why its so cheap now, i prefer to be prepared for the worst.
I don’t understand why I keep hearing that because gas prices are low, hybrids will be no longer be popular or even relevant. I admit the high gas prices did push some people to hybrids, but there are still people concerned with the environment and there is still a need for this type of vehicle, in my opinion.
We’ve had both our vehicles for a while, bought when gas was cheap, and fuel economy was one of the deciding factors (we get a combined 28 and 31 mpg). It wasn’t a financial decision at the time, though we were a lot less affected by the gas prices than some.
And our next car choice will still consider mileage along with safety, price and functionality. It may not be a hybrid, but there are a few on the short list. Including the Fusion.
Oh but the safetyniks are already working on requirements that silent-running hybrids have to make noise so that pedestrians can hear them coming.
That requirement has already been met. It’s called a horn.
Now all they need is buyers…
…with cash.
Crap, there goes 75% of them.
Bummer of crappy timing. They would have sold scads of them this summer. It’s an in-the-park home run on paper… but the winds of financial times and crashing oil are blowing the paper down the street.
I could probably get to work on all electric. 7 miles each way, max speed approximately 35-40mph.
That would be neat.
The question is….pricing.
Even in my (paid off) sports car @ a conservative 15mpg in the city, that is 1 gallon per day or so. Say …$4 $20/week, or $80/month.
If this thing is in the Prius price range, it would be way too expensive to make any sense for me. If it can compete with a yaris or fit for pricing, it might make a nice replacement for my aging Neon.
Btw gas is just barely under $2.00 here for regular :)
@jerseydevil: base MRSP $27,250 + shipping ($600-ish) – hefty federal/local tax rebates if qualifying.
Very nice, but way beyond my budget for a car.
>>I can see that 47mph silent running on batteries only coming in real handy for doing drive-by shootings. That’s an untapped niche market that Ford probably never even thought of when they created this car. All they need to do is get some rap stars and gangbangers to promote the vehicle to that market segment.<<
Hey! Don’t underestimate Ford’s understanding of its market.
Ford has a long and productive history of supporting gangsters’ transportation needs. Moreover, none other than Clyde Barrow wrote Henry a testimonial on the reliability and speed of his cars and how important they were to him in his many getaways. Ford will have no problem with obtaining appropriate testimonials !
Regards,
>>The combined EPA number should be about 38 mpg; the new Prius will almost certainly break 50 mpg (combined).<<
Sure, but the Prius is not comparable to the Fusion. The Fusion hybrid has to be compared to the Camry hybrid.
jerseydevil: Hold on, that 47mph all-electric mode may last about a mile (or two). This is not a plug-in, just a conventional hybrid like the Prius. Just because this thing can (theoretically) hit 47mph in EV mode, the battery capacity is very limited (as compared to a plug-in hybrid or pure EV). The current Prius can be “tricked” into brief bursts of all EV mode up to 40 or 50 mph, but these are very short too.
I think Ford did an excellent job on this car (looking at the stat sheet, of course). It will be exciting to see how Toyota counters with the Camry hybrid when it is due for a redesign next year. This just highlights how badly the Malibu hybrid missed the boat. First, it couldn’t meet the older Camry hybrid specs. Second, Ford comes out w/ their hybrid a year later and really puts a thrashing on them.
tedj101, so where is Ford’s Prius competitor, if not this?
Looks like a great job by Ford, although the interior plastics look a little gnarly in the close-ups.
No, that wasn’t a dig at TTAC’s near-obsession with interior materials.
Price will be an issue here in Canada though. $27k in the States usually translates to close to $40k in Canada. There are a lot of great cars in that price range.
If the Ford sells for $25K (unlikely) and has 3.9% financing for 60 months, gas would have to reach $5 a gallon for those 60 months in order for this car to beat the cheap 4 cyl Hyundai Sonata. The Sonata is faster and wouldnt need a battery change or expensive service and comes with a 100K warranty. The Sonata probably has less effect overall on the enviroment if you include the battery production and disposal for the Ford.
@ Usta Bee: The previous season of Weeds had a gag like that — a Prius drive-by shooting.
Aren’t hybrids actually not that great for short commutes?
I know a guy who had an Escape Hybrid and he said the engine has to run for the first few miles to charge the batteries, so if you really use it as a runabout you don’t get as much electricity only driving as you’d like.
So gas prices have fallen – what’s the harm in burning cheap gas efficiently?
If these numbers are real, it sounds like great news. Not because it’s a Ford (I don’t care if it’s a Ford or a Toyota or whatever), but because it represents another step forward in a new technology. At least, this is a real car, not just the baloney fed by GM on the Volt.
Kudos to Ford. I just hope they will support the product through times of low gas prices.
Paul Niedermeyer wrote: tedj101, so where is Ford’s Prius competitor, if not this?
That would be Focus hatchback hybrid.
Oh, wait.
Seriously, I am happy that Ford is making progress, but until they bring back hatchbacks and wagons, I will remain cheering on the sidelines.
Still, this announcement shows why Ford will be happily producing cars when Rick W., and Bob L. are busy destroying other companies after GM is dead and buried.
but does it plug in?
Kudos to Ford for actually leading here among the Detroit Three with a Hybrid that apparently actually works. Provide credit to Toyota for helping them get the ball rolling with their Escape hybrid. At least Ford has actual performing hybrid product. GM? PR Hype for Volts or psuedo-hybrids. ‘Cry’sler? Nothing.
When gas prices shoot back up, they’ll have a product to win with or become eco-cool now with the car sharing services germinating now.
@tedj101
“”>>The combined EPA number should be about 38 mpg; the new Prius will almost certainly break 50 mpg (combined).<<
Sure, but the Prius is not comparable to the Fusion. The Fusion hybrid has to be compared to the Camry hybrid.“”
Compare it to the Camry all you want but as a potential buyer of a hybrid I:
won’t consider a Camry Hybrid vs Prius until the Camry Hybrid is cheaper than the Prius as it isn’t a hatchback and gets lower gas mileage. Prius has more cargo hauling capacity and better MPG so it’s worth more to me.
won’t consider a Fusion Hybrid vs Prius until the Fusion Hybrid is cheaper than the Prius as it isn’t a hatchback and gets lower gas mileage. Prius has more cargo hauling capacity and better MPG so it’s worth more to me.
Of course that won’t guarantee that I will buy a Hybrid anytime soon. I’m still driving a conventional 4 cyl, 4 door vehicle. I still wish I had a car with more cargo space and I still wish the Matrix (aka Corolla hatchback) weren’t so expensive. Prius, Fusion Hybrid, or Matrix if the dollar proposition is right I’d be happy with any of them. (Yes Ford and the US government could bribe me to buy a Ford, if the money isn’t there I’ll stick with used cars for a while longer).
But will you actually be able to buy one? You cant even find an Escape Hybrid in one of the largets cities in the US (Houston).
Sounds great. As ponited out by many already, it’s nice to see a domestic car company actually produce a true hybrid car that can at least compete with the Camry hybrid and probably beat it. Whether or not it makes economic sense (the Prius really doesn’t until gas gets up around $3.50/gallon and it certainly sold well at lower gas prices), it should draw a decent amount of customers who are looking for a hybrid away from the Prius. And, depending on how much cash the governemtn throws at you to buy it, it could well cost less than the Prius. I’ll be anxious to see what it’s actual price is when everything is factored in.
Whether or not it makes economic sense (the Prius really doesn’t until gas gets up around $3.50/gallon and it certainly sold well at lower gas prices)
Go ahead an crucify me for saying this, but the Prius sold well at cheap gas prices because it looks different.
People that pay a price premium to be “green” want to flaunt it and the Prius is their billboard.
That said, I do see the size and hatchback utility of the thing, but that’s starting to sound like a tired excuse of all the Prius lovers that didn’t see an economic payback until this summer’s gas price spike.
I’ve driven several and they are about as much fun to drive as sitting in tepid bath water. No driving enthusiast is buying that hybrid. Since this isn’t a hyper miler website or treehugger.com I’m always surprised by the huge Prius lobby here.
Myself, I wouldn’t buy a hybrid to look different, I’d buy one for economic reasons. On top of that is has to be fun to drive. The Fusion might be the first I’d strongly consider…if gasoline jumps up again. The Camry is boring and the old Accord hybrid offered no MPG benefit. Ford might finally have a winner, and the Fusion is something you can rework suspension and such to have a bad ass road carving fuel miser. Best of both worlds and well worth a couple less MPG’s than the boring Prius.
@26theone: availability is going to be a problem, as from what I’ve read, Ford’s ramping up production slowly.
Is it a sign of the times when the coin tray is now a credit/debit card tray? On that note, hasn’t anyone at Ford ever watched “Planes, Trains, and Automobiles”? Always keep your plastic on your person.
This is a very good competitor to the Camry Hybrid, which “only” gets 33/34. Of course, the Prius gets 48/45, and the interior space between the three really is minimal.
As for the Prius only selling well because it looks “different”, that’s hogwash. Most people aren’t driving enthusiasts; they use a car to get from A to B. The Prius is roomy, reliabile, fuel efficient, fairly inexpensive (if you pay sticker or below), pollutes very little, and can be had with lots of gadgets (nav system, Bluetooth, etc.). The Prius is all most people need. It’s always sold better than all the other hybrids because it’s a better real world vehicle. It’s large enough for a family (the Insight was just a two seater with basically no storage space). It gets the highest mileage of any vehicle other than the Insight, yet is bigger than it or the Civic Hybrid. And lets not even talk about GM’s craptastic hybrid cars.
Ford will sell as many of these as they make. However, it sounds like they are going to keep the supply of them limited, because they probably lose money on them.
The 2010 Ford Fusion cost $27,270 — they’ve had a minisite up with Fusion pricing for some time.
For a comparison:
2009 Camry hybrid $26,150
2009 Altima hybrid $26,650
2009 Malibu hybrid $26,225
2009 Aura hybrid $26,685
So the Fusion looks like it cost $500-$1000 more BUT, keep in mind these are 2009 models and the Fusion is a 2010 coming out this spring.
Car prices have been steadily rising over the past few years. So I’m sure the Fusion hybrid will be price competitive come March.
@Smsum2 : the local dealer has stripper Camry Hybrids for $24,609 + TTL. Can’t find any Malibu Hybrids at that dealer right this second.
The Fusion will be produced at 25k units per year just like the Escape. The reasons are complicated but all come down to cost and profit.
Under Ford’s current model, their hybrid program is break-even or slightly profitable with the launch of the 2010 Fusion. But they achieve that profitability through very tightly controlled cost-benefit trade offs in production and supply.
Looking first at production, it is more profitable for Ford to sell their regular Fusions and Escapes; therefore, it is not worth producing more hybrids than Ford can make slim margins on. Ford could probably sell 100k Escape and Fusion hybrids next year, but at prices that would be well below MSRP and the margins might be negative. They would also have to make production trade-offs to do that. Further, if they negotiated battery contracts that allowed the flexibility to go from 50k to 100k units when battery production is already really tight, it would be much more expensive and might push the margins negative. If they just ordered 75k a year instead, there is the chance that plummeting gas prices (let’s just say) would lower demand for their hybrids and they’d be stuck with extra battery inventory which is the most expensive component Ford doesn’t control internally – not good for balance sheet.
So, that’s the basic skinny. Ford will produce 50k units in 2009 (assuming that demand for hybrids doesn’t completely collapse). If they can keep discounts relatively small (ie – less than $1-2k), they will be profitable in their program.
It’s a good effort on Ford’s part. 41 mpg is an impressive number. But what is really more compelling about that number to me is that they shrank the battery considerably to control weight and driving characteristics. If they left it the same size as, say, the Camry’s, they may have been able to push that 41 to around 50 mpg by extending the time the battery could be in operation. I think it may prove to be a good dynamics v. efficiency trade-off. But, we’ll wait and see how consumers respond.
It makes me excited to see what Ford’s v6 hybrid program will look like when it debuts sometime in 2010.
One note about a Fusion/Camry versus Prius comparison. Anyone who has actually sat in the back seat of a Prius knows that it is noticeably smaller than the back seat of a Fusion or Camry. The Prius is a compact car – it is only EPA midsize because of the hatch, but passengers can’t use the hatch. If it’s true that Ford maintained the hybrid’s driving dynamics from the regular model’s, my guess is it will be a much greater pleasure to drive as well.
“Oh but the safetyniks are already working on requirements that silent-running hybrids have to make noise so that pedestrians can hear them coming.”
I suggest using playing cards to snap against the wheel spokes.
@200k-min:
That is partially the pont that I was trying to make. People bought the Prius even when it didn’t make economic sense. As long as the hybrid Fusion has enough stickers on it and good enough press, we could see the same effect. People who want to buy “green” and American could well have a viable option now.
As far as the price, does the $27k price take into account money from the government? Probably not as that can vary from state to state. I’ll be interested to see what it goes for in my current home state of California.
I’m also interested in a V6 hybrid that I can have fun in when I want to and get 4 cylinder mileage from when I’m going for fuel economy.
It is a shame that Ford chose not to make this thing profitable.
Quite a useless appliance if it doesn’t make Ford money.
The Prius is a compact car – it is only EPA midsize because of the hatch, but passengers can’t use the hatch.
Prius Passenger Volume 96 ft3
Prius Luggage Volume 16 ft3
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/info.shtml#sizeclasses clearly shows
Mid-Size
110 – 119
For some reason the closest match from toyota that isn’t a hybrid the Matrix is classified as a Small Station Wagon instead of a mid sized car.
Matrix Passenger Volume 92 ft3
Matrix Luggage Volume 20 ft3
Both the Matrix and the Prius have 112 ft3 of space but the Prius has more in the Passenger area than the Matrix which moves more of its space to the luggage area.
Camry Hybrid also has 112 ft3, what is it with Toyotas and having 112 ft3?
Camry Hybrid Passenger Volume 101 ft3
Camry Hybrid Luggage Volume 11 ft3
So yeah the Prius has less passenger space than a Camry Hybrid but how does it compare to a Corolla which is clearly labeled a compact car?
Corolla is 104 ft3 by way of
Corolla Passenger Volume 92 ft3
Corolla Luggage Volume 12 ft3
It is a shame that Ford chose not to make this thing profitable.
Quite a useless appliance if it doesn’t make Ford money.
And how would they do that while maintaining reliability and build quality? I suppose they could cut corners to make more money out of this, but isn’t that what got them in trouble to begin with?
I am unclear. Is this a plug in or not? If not, what good is driving on the battery alone? I can see one might get a slight boost by keeping the engine off until you need the speed, but aren’t you basicly just putting a governer on yourself by doing that? Why not just be light footed?
Wait a second–is the Prius profitable? Do we know that any hybrid is profitable? Why then are folks slagging on Ford?
And my head started spinning when I read the snipes that Ford is wasting its time making a car that is too economical now that gas is cheap. This is exactly the Toyota strategy, exactly the strategy that we (most of us) have been advocating: A balanced product portfolio that includes good work trucks for those who really need them, solid mainstream cars and crossovers, and high-economy vehicles that provide trickle-down technology (and potentially higher volume if gas prices shoot back up). Given the dismal state of things, Ford seems to be making a pretty smart survival move.
Anyone who has actually sat in the back seat of a Prius knows that it is noticeably smaller than the back seat of a Fusion or Camry.
Interesting. Never sat in the back seat. Next time I get one as a rental I’ll squeeze in and test it out. From the ones I’ve seen, the back seat does look smaller than my 2000 Accord.
Yes…Toyota is making money on the Prius. And with the next refresh, it will be making even more money.
And Ford has said that they will lose money on every one they sell…just like the Escape Fashion Statement…err…Hybrid.
This is the kind of short sightedness that go Ford in the position they are. I can hear the meeting now:
“Quick we need a hybrid that is better than Toyota!”
“Should we make it profitable?”
“How long will that take?”
“Quite a lot longer.”
“No…we need it now…we don’t need profits…we just need to look good as we drive to congress and ask for money.”
I am unclear. Is this a plug in or not? If not, what good is driving on the battery alone?
No, it’s not a plug-in where the battery can be charged at home or another power source for any significant amount of all-electric driving. There are still advantages for those low-speed situations such as city driving, parking lots and freeway creep-and-crawl where you can avoid having the gas engine running.
Any time you can run solely off the battery, which is limited in this type of hybrid, there is a definite savings in fuel.
If your driving is primarily high-speed freeway, this system makes little sense. The largest benefit is in urban/suburban driving that includes stop-and-go and low speeds.
@ P71
Toyota is supposedly barely profitable on the Prius… The next-gen isn’t expected to be that much better either. However, those estimates were based on market assumptions of 180-200k units per year in a U.S. where the dollar was strong against the yen (all Prii are made in Japan, hurting the balance sheet even more than if they were produced stateside). Toyota will sell nowhere near that in 2009 and their hybrid program will likely be very negative unless the limit production severly.
Ford was supposed to make money on their hybrids with the launch of the Fusion hybrid. Will they now with the economy? Not sure, but they only have to move 50,000 units total, so I’d venture that they’ll have a much easier time of it.
Wave,
Thanks for the explanation, but one of the reasons I was unclear is that the laws of physics prevent any great savings by turning off the motor unless it’s a bad design or wasteful driver.
Well the whole hybrid thing is kind of ignorant, its working towards better mileage.. but I’l stick to my early 90s FI econocar that gets mileage in the high 30s-50s on the highway, no expensive battery BS, no ‘status’ symbol, because those of you thinking that people are simply buying these to be better for the environment are kidding yourselfs.. its the new ‘in’ thing to be green. Think back to the late 80s early 90s Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans, all of their compact cars from that era got great mileage.. not 50mpg like the prius or even 60, but i think respectively 35mpg on an entirely gasoline powered engine is pretty good and economical, especially compared to the newer car market in general where 20mpg because acceptible as good mileage.