Yes, yes, The Heritage Foundation. Right wing whack jobs. But TTAC is open to arguments from all ends of the political spectrum, from Prius-driving socialists to S65 AMG-driving free marketeers (I’m looking at you Shoes). As always, you’re free to make of this what you will. “The Detroit automakers explain in their SEC filings that their benefit expenses are for current workers, not former employees. This is because they follow generally accepted accounting principles in preparing these estimates. If the figures did include current retiree benefits, the average hourly amount would be much higher than they actually report. UAW employees earn far more than most Americans do.” So, now how much do they pay? “Chart 1 shows the average hourly compensation for UAW workers and the average compensation for all private sector workers. These figures are based upon calculations by the Detroit automakers themselves as published in SEC filings, their annual reports, and other materials. According to briefing materials prepared by General Motors, “The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked.”
The Heritage Foundation has little time for the contention that legacy costs account for the $70/hour number. “These benefits cost the Detroit automakers significant amounts of money. Critics contend that these benefit figures include the cost of providing retirement and health benefits to currently retired workers, not just benefits for current workers. Since there are more retired than active employees this makes it appear that GM employees earn far more than they actually do. This contention contradicts the plain meaning of what the automakers have reported in SEC filings and in their public statements and would be contrary to generally accepted accounting principles.
“Chrysler, for example, reports paying $20.14 an hour in health costs for its hourly employees. That figure includes the estimated cost of their health benefits in retirement, calculated according to Financial Accounting Standard 106. The government does not allow Chrysler to promise to pay tens of thousands of dollars in health benefits in the future without reporting that cost on its balance sheets today.”
Bottom line?
“Congress should not tax all Americans to bailout the Detroit automakers in order to preserve high earnings for a few.” Nope, nothing contentious there.
[thanks to Robert Schwarz for the link]
Where HAS Shoes been lately? I miss seeing how the other half live.
I wonder how much the average Heritage Foundation employee costs?
It’s pretty clear. The >$70 an hour is what it costs the big-3 per current worker per hour in current salary and benefits and future pension and benefits.
This is to pay a mix of assholes whose fathers’ union pay would have allowed them to go to college, except that they were too lazy, and, to be fair, people who did go to college but can make more in a mobbed up UAW position than by doing what they studied in college.
The big-3 employ less than 250,000 Americans, and there are more than 300,000,000 Americans. That means that the big-3 employ less than 1/10 of 1 percent (not 1%, but .1%) of all Americans.
The Democrats better decide really quick whether they want to waste money saving a small number of special interest losers who should have had their day of reckoning (Chapter 11) 10 or 15 years ago, or invest in things that will actually move the country forward.
Everyone in the House is up for re-election in two years, and, Obama, it’s pretty embarrassing to be a 1-term president.
Conslaw:
Well, since they don’t have a union and can be laid off or fired at no cost (instead of the Heritage Foundation needing to continue to pay them almost 100% of their pay even though they are gone, UAW style), I would guess that they are paid what they are worth to the Heritage Foundation.
And I am willing to bet they have 401Ks only, no defined benefits pension or post retirement health care.
“Chrysler, for example, reports paying $20.14 an hour in health costs for its hourly employees.”
We really need a national healthcare system in this country, the current system is unsustainable.
Careful now. Like every organization, the Heritage Foundation has a point of view. They are not whack jobs.
Quick and dirty sanity check used in the companies I’ve worked for, is benefits costs add 50% to 100% to paid wages.
So if the starting wage of $28 is accurate, the total cost per hour to the company is ~$56. For the brand new employee. Add a decade or so of 3% to 5% annual wage increases and $70 per hour isn’t an unrealistic number.
I don’t see this as a fair comparison. Why not compare auto workers to other unionized manufacturing workers, like aerospace workers, or compared to non-union auto workers at Toyota and Honda in the US. One problem in doing the comparison is finding other manufacturing workers since the US is losing its manufacturing capabilities. Does the comparison provided include minimum wage fast food workers? Is that a valid comparison? Seems like union bashing to me. I’m not a huge fan of unions but understand their existence given management abuses. If you want to criticize don’t take cheap shots like this comparison. They’ve lost credibility, or lost even more creditability.
The New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html
did a far better job of analyzing the $70/hour canard.
For example, if the government subsidized all the retiree costs over what the US Japanese factories pay, AND the UAW accepted salary & benefit cuts to match down to what the US Japanese factories pay, that would save only $800/car.
barberoux:
You are completely correct. The Heritage Foundation is spot on about the >$70 an hour big-3 cost for current labor, but that should be compared to the transplants’ labor costs, not average US labor costs. That bias is why they are the Heritage Foundation.
The transplants treat their blue collar workers like most modern white collar workers. No defined benefits pension or golden health care, but performance bonuses when the company is profitable. I’ve heard their costs are $40-$50 an hour on the high-end.
However, the real issue is not that the big-3 have to pay necessary workers too much, but that they cannot lay off un-necessary workers (maybe 1/3 of the workforce or more).
We already have one Monty its called Medicare and if the UAW retirees and future UAW retirees were transferred over then poof the health care costs would be diminished to the equivalent of the transplants. The problem is they don’t want Medicare. Do you really think that a national health care plan for everyone would be as generous as the current private health care plan.
Heres an analogy the government is currently providing free cars instead of (national-healthcare) to retirees. The UAW retirees currently recieve free cars instead of (national-healthcare). The government currently provides all retirees free Aveos provided through taxes, the UAW retirees receive free BMW’s provided by companies bank account. Then we get the people like yourself who claim that if only the government were to provide free cars (national healthcare) to everyone in the US that the cost disadvantage would disappear.
Do you really think that a free cars (national-healthcare) program would resemble the Aveo or the BMW. It would resemble the Aveo and the UAW would still demand their private health care insurance the BMW. Result no cost savings
They don’t want a free Aveo they want the free BMW they have been recieving.
Actually, the comparison is valid based on the information given.
The question isn’t whether we’re comparing them to other ‘union’ jobs. If we did that, it would be just as much as a broad stroke since union labor can be anywhere from highly skilled engineers to low level garment workers.
I think the Heritage Foundation may have hit the nail on the head on this one. Automotive assembly requires at best an average skills process and the dangers involved don’t appear to be any worse than those you would commonly find in construction or sanitation.
Yes, they are overpaid. So are the executives. So are the dealers. So are the pensioners, and so are the government officials that subsidize it all.
Steven Lang: Yes, they are overpaid. So are the executives. So are the dealers. So are the pensioners, and so are the government officials that subsidize it all.
How about making any bailout contingent on everyone at GM and Chrysler – from the CEO, the board on to the janitor – accepting wages and benefits comparable to those paid for similar positions at Toyota?
geeber:
The real problem for the big-3 is not what the necessary people are paid, it is that the un-necessary people (in the UAW) cannot be gotten rid of.
It’s not paying $70 an hour to people that are worth $50 that is killing the big-3, it is paying $70 an hour to people that are worth $0.
geeber: Do you think Rabid Rick would accept a 80%+ paycut? He’s “too valuable to the company” for that!
It would be a great way to start the negotiations off. Especially from a PR perspective…
But the questions now are related to the capability and merit of each of these three companies and their stakeholders. That’s what a bankruptcy judge has been trained to do.
If folks believe that the current economic climate and complicated structure of all these firms make Chapter 11 a non-starter, then we need to create an apparatus that gives a judge (or czar in this case) the ability to handle the problems.
The way things structured are now, it won’t happen. Not even a snowball’s chance in hell. These companies will either be sold or liquidated unless President-elect Obama uses Executive Orders to back up the authority and judgment of the ‘Car Czar’.
Bush will not go near any of this with a 20 foot pole. He doesn’t have the moxie to do it.
I’m surprised we’re still discussing this. It doesn’t seem to me to matter how much their actual hourly labor costs are; they signed the contracts resulting in those costs. This isn’t evidence of some kind of unfair outcome. The UAW made the bed, the big 3 get to lie in it.
geeber: “How about making any bailout contingent on everyone at GM and Chrysler – from the CEO, the board on to the janitor – accepting wages and benefits comparable to those paid for similar positions at Toyota?”
That’s a terrific idea! Of course, it might make GM and Chrysler decide they don’t want bailout money after all. But I’d call that a feature, not a bug.
Steven Lang off topic I always enjoy your info on what you are seeing at the auctions. Has pricing bottomed out? How brisk or slow are auctions these days.
The attacks on labor get a bit old, frankly. First, GM cut a deal to bribe workers with benefits and pensions in exchange for those workers accepting a lifetime of boredom and rigidly bad management. Now, GM wants to welsh on the deal, just because it feels like it.
Just imagine if you went to your bank and said, “You know, I’ve been paying this mortgage for 20 years, but I just don’t feel like paying it anymore because it costs more than I’d like it to. You’re a big fat legacy cost, and hell, I never liked you much, anyway.”
Would that defaulter receive the support of the readers of the website, or would they instead berate this jerk for being unwilling to step up and honor a commitment? I think that you know the answer to that.
“that would save only $800/car.”
Two things:
1. $800 is a huge amount when your talking about a 22k chevy. It can go along way towards higher quality parts, more R&D, etc.
2. As someone else mentioned it’s not only the cost per hour, it’s the union work rules that make the factories so much less efficient.
pch… just cause they feel like it?
That’s a bold statement to make when GM is a few weeks away from bankruptcy. That’s not just feeling like it.
That’s not just feeling like it.
That’s forty years of incompetence, coming home to roost.
Clients who owe me money don’t get a pass from paying my bill just because they ran themselves into the ground and are having trouble stepping up. They still owe me the money, no matter what.
I might be willing to compromise if need be, but I’d be pretty offended if they keep asking for new terms while insulting me or trying to say that my bill doesn’t matter because our contract was negotiated awhile ago. I’d be more tempted to tell them to screw themselves, because they treat me as an opponent, instead of as a potential ally. Anyone with self-respect would do the same.
The difference stems from some people using base pay whil others incluld the cost of benefits in the discussion.
In 2005:
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/
Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker
Source: GM & Toyota
GM:
$73.73
Toyota:
$48
Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.
Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.
This means that GM pays $42.38 in benefits per hour worked, while Toyota pays $21.
Thus the total hourly cost for Toyota is about 179% of base pay per hour while for GM it is 235%.
For most industries it’s probably about 130%. I’d be glad to get the Toyota deal! Especially since they’re still in business!
Pch101:
That is a BS analogy. Here is the correct analogy. Someone bought a house they could not afford.
Should that person be forced to declare Bankruptcy, or should the taxpayer bail them out so they can keep paying.
Labor (more specifically UAW labor that is politically connected and makes much more than other Americans) is the reason that the taxpayers are being forced to keep afloat a dying, non-viable industry instead of allowing it to reorganize in bankruptcy. Therefore the attacks on (or, more appropriately, honest statements about) the UAW are appropriate.
If the UAW let the big-3 lay off un-necessary workers without Job Banks or massive payouts then the big-3 could probably survive without a bailout. Since the UAW is not willing to do that screw them, let the big-3 BK. The UAW does not need to give the big-3 a pass from paying them what’s due in the contracts (even for not working), just screw the UAW when that lands them in Bankruptcy court as unsecured creditors.
Would that defaulter receive the support of the readers of that website, or would they instead berate this jerk for being unwilling to step up and honor a commitment?
Would you rather accept nothing or accept a cut?
Your choice.
Someone bought a house they could not afford.
Should that person be forced to declare Bankruptcy, or should the taxpayer bail them out so they can keep paying.
Poor analogy, because in a bankruptcy in most states, a home lender will get the collateral returned to them. The union has been and will continue to give concessions, which give them nothing in return.
The UAW has already agreed to cuts and to repayment terms that won’t be met. They may not be the nicest people, but they have done more than management ever has.
The union will get hosed on the VEBA, anyway, so it’s a bit silly to continually talk about the expense of funding it when GM has gone to great lengths to defer it and otherwise not pay it. It’s an expense that isn’t being paid, so it isn’t much of an expense.
Some of you folks who don’t like Wagoner are falling for his cost cutting song-and-dance routine. GM could have slave labor building cars, and it would still be losing money. You can’t make money unless you have products to sell, which means that you need customers who want them.
If most of us aren’t willing to pay as much for an Aura as we for an Altima, then naturally, GM will lose money. Consumers don’t care who built their car, they just want a car that they like. That includes UAW-built Corollas that come from Fremont, a plant that was one of the worst in GM’s system when they were running the joint. Same workers, different management.
“that would save only $800/car.”
To emphasize the point that this savings is at the wholesale production cost level (versus retail) and is a HUGE number. If you consider the “cost” to add a feature like power door locks or cruise control costs $10 or $20 but yields many hundreds of $ in upgrade costs at the dealer, you can see the impact.
And I think the idea that the Big 3 execs should be compensated at the same rate as foreign makers is a great idea!! Since they make money, perhaps the Toyota model?
@PCH101
If you can’t see the damage Unions have done to American industry then God have mercy on you, because you’re blind to the truth. (I’m not excusing mismanagement, but don’t for a second think that the Unions are all innocent in the disaster that has become the American manufacturing sector)
Sherman Lin: Do you really think that a free cars (national-healthcare) program would resemble the Aveo or the BMW. It would resemble the Aveo and the UAW would still demand their private health care insurance the BMW. Result no cost savings
Good reason for Chapter 11, to get out of that BMW.
AND–good reason for national healthcare, because millions of Americans would love an Aveo as opposed to having to walk on a broken ankle.
Yes, they are overpaid. …. So are the dealers.
The dealers are overpaid? In fact the dealers are paid at all?
There’s certainly plenty wrong with the way dealers deal but dealers being “overpaid” isn’t one of them.
Dealers are independent businesspeople. They make money when they sell their products: new and used cars they’ve bought from the OEs (new) or the auction/broker/customer (used), related finance products, and parts and service.
When business is good they can get rich. When business is bad they can go out of business.
Actually the Leonard article cited by Mr. Weaver at 11:02 am above was very good. Here are some quotes:
… labor costs, for all the attention they have been receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a vehicle. An extra $800 per vehicle would certainly help Detroit, but the Big Three already often sell their cars for about $2,500 less than equivalent cars from Japanese companies, … Even so, many Americans no longer want to own the cars being made by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.
* * *
Detroit’s defenders, from top executives on down, insist that they have finally learned their lesson. They say a comeback is just around the corner. But they said the same thing at the start of this decade — and the start of the last one and the one before that. All the while, their market share has kept on falling.
* * *
But Congress and the Obama administration shouldn’t fool themselves into thinking that they can preserve the Big Three in anything like their current form. Very soon, they need to shrink to a size that reflects the American public’s collective judgment about the quality of their products.
It’s a sad story, in many ways. But it can’t really be undone at this point. If we had wanted to preserve the Big Three, we would have bought more of their cars.
don’t for a second think that the Unions are all innocent
I never said that they were angels. However, the visceral dislike of unions causes a lot of commentators to distort the facts.
-The union has already made substantial concessions
-The union will continue to make substantial concessions
-Management is in the habit of cutting deals that it will not honor and has no intention of honoring
-Management continues to include in the arithmetic substantial amounts of expenses that it is not paying and has no intention of paying, which means that those numbers are inflated and dishonest.
-The unions didn’t design, engineer or brand cars that people don’t want; management did.
-The companies are losing money because the cars aren’t good enough to be sold at a profit.
And back to the ethical point: A deal is a deal, and people should make an effort to honor their deals. GM management has no honor.
GM has no intention of keeping its word with the union. With GM’s track record of consistently screwing its customers, suppliers and dealers, is anyone really surprised that it might screw its workers, too?
Interesting point, a deal is a deal. So the deal the public has with the car companies is they build a product that they (the public)like or they go elsewhere. The deal 2 of the Big 3 has with their shareholders is you put your money into the stock and you may lose it of they don’t make money. The deal that Cerberus has with Chrysler is they own them lock, stock and barrel and live with the consequences.
I see no where in this deal that says public money should be used to stop these processes from their natural course. A deal is a deal, after all.
slothrop: AND–good reason for national healthcare, because millions of Americans would love an Aveo as opposed to having to walk on a broken ankle.
The problem is that because national health care has been sold as a panacea, and there has been very little examination of how other countries have structured their health care plans, and what procedures are actually covered, most Americans think they will be getting a Mercedes S-Class for the price of an Aveo if we nationalize health care.
pch101:-Management continues to include in the arithmetic substantial amounts of expenses that it is not paying and has no intention of paying, which means that those numbers are inflated and dishonest.
Regarding the UAW members, it’s my understanding that management is contractually obligated to pay those expenses, and must therefore account for them.
Now, I have no doubt that management wants to get out of paying those expenses, and is desperately looking for any way to do so, but as long as the contract exists, they must account for those expenses.
pch101: And back to the ethical point: A deal is a deal, and people should make an effort to honor their deals.
GM has no intention of keeping its word with the union. With GM’s track record of consistently screwing its customers and its dealers, is anyone really surprised that it might screw its workers, too?
I agree, but the deal was between GM and the UAW, not the UAW and taxpayers.
AGAIN, I ask:
Were Citibank, or AIG, or Lehman Bros. employees asked to make concessions?
Why don’t we have the same level of outrage about the incompetence and worthlessness of white-collar workers?
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom?print=true
Why are so many at TTAC (and elsewhere) so emotional about workers who have moved themselves from the 50-yard line on the L-curve of income…
.
http://www.lcurve.org/
.
…to the 35-yard line, when the overwhelming pile is a the 1-yard line?
The success of the Right-Wing Narrative Construction machine is truly astounding.
http://www.amazon.com/Cracking-Code-Restore-Americas-Original/dp/1576756270/
GM has already sliced the US workforce.
Everytime you fire more workers, you push up the total package since health care costs for retirees goes up.
Realistically speaking, what GM wants is what Delphi got: shutting down all US production. Out of the top 20 vehicles in the US, there is one GM car: The Malibu. I think the plan was take the DoE money, shut down everything else, then retool. There is enough inventory to supply truck sales for at least 1/2 a year, and truck sales are not going to recover.
as long as the contract exists, they must account for those expenses.
Sure, they need to account for them. But they present the numbers in a misleading fashion, because they are implying that they are paying them in full, when they aren’t.
This is like a guy complaining about the cost of his steak while he is shoplifting the meat. The obvious retort to such a lie is to point out that while the obligation has been incurred, it isn’t being paid, and since it isn’t going to get paid, he ought to stop bitching about it.
the deal was between GM and the UAW, not the UAW and taxpayers.
No argument there. If my advice was followed, the union agreements would be included in a Chapter 7 and they would disappear, so it’s not as if I would pay them myself if I was in GM’s position.
My underlying point is that GM management is a cabal of liars. They lie about everything, and blame everyone and everything for their mistakes. How they sleep at night, I don’t know.
I do wish someone in Congress had asked Wagoner why GM is at the brink of Death’s door, when he was saying this summer that GM had enough cash to get through 2009. Obviously, he either lied through his teeth or else his forecasting skills suck, yet nobody confronts him about his dishonesty.
Pch101: My underlying point is that GM management is a cabal of liars. They lie about everything, and blame everyone and everything for their mistakes.
No argument on that one from me…I’m getting sick of the evasions and the new-new-super-duper turnaround plan that is basically more of the same from the last new-new plan.
Pch101: I do wish someone in Congress had asked Wagoner why GM is at the brink of Death’s door, when he was saying this summer that GM had enough cash to get through 2009. Obviously, he either lied through his teeth or else his forecasting skills suck, yet nobody confronts him about his dishonesty.
I think if we had taken 20 posters from this site, and had THEM ask questions of all three, Wagoner and Nardelli, at least, would have wished they were only facing members of Congress…
“An extra $800 per vehicle would certainly help Detroit, but the Big Three already often sell their cars for about $2,500 less than equivalent cars from Japanese companies, … Even so, many Americans no longer want to own the cars being made by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.”
They sell for $2,500 less but you actually get $3,300 less of a car ($2,500+800).
No one seems to understand that that extra $800 is why they can’t compete, why they had to concentrate on SUV’s, why a base Malibu has a 4-speed auto while a Camry, Accord, Sonata has a 5-speed auto.
The other big problem is the executives come from a finance and marketing background. They figure who would not buy a car because it had a 4-speed rather than a 5-speed transmission. That may be true – but when you apply the same logic to everything about the car, from the interior quality, to parts durability, to safety features, etc. people do seem to make decisions based on those critera.
I think it was an old GM CEO who said of overhead cam engines and 4 and 5 speed automatic transmission – “Americans will not pay for what they can’t see.” He was wrong.
Snabster said:
“Out of the top 20 vehicles in the US, there is one GM car: The Malibu.”
Hey, way to twist the data to your point. Why say top 20 vehicles, but then only count GM cars? How many GM vehicles are in the top 20?
How about how many GM cars are in the top 20 cars?
Answer: 4 Impala, Malibu, Cobalt, and G6 (and HHR is #21, by less than 200 units)
How many Toyotas are in the top 20? 4 (but they the runaway best seller Camry)
Why are so many at TTAC (and elsewhere) so emotional about workers who have moved themselves from the 50-yard line on the L-curve of income…
I don’t think anyone has a problem with UAW blue collar workers earning a good wage. What I have a problem with is them earning 95% of their pay while sitting on their asses and further dragging down their employers….all the while getting paid better than most Americans.
Eric_Stepans: Were Citibank, or AIG, or Lehman Bros. employees asked to make concessions?
We didn’t have to, because a fair part of their compensation was in stock, which is now worthless.
Also note that there is no contract ensuring that these white-collar workers will receive pay and benefits at the old rate, or sit in the Jobs Bank at 95 percent of their pay, even if their company receives government aid.
And, finally, lots of these white-collar workers received a 100-percent cut in pay when they were told to look for a new job.
Eric_Stepans: The success of the Right-Wing Narrative Construction machine is truly astounding.
If you think that people are upset over this because of right-wing talking points or talk radio, you really haven’t been paying attention…
Why are so many at TTAC (and elsewhere) so emotional about workers who have moved themselves from the 50-yard line on the L-curve of income…
A perfect mix of bitterness and intellectual snobbery. It’s very American, and it’s the same attitude that prevents the establishment of decent education and health systems. It can be summed up thusly:
“Why should I have to _____ for someone else, when they _____?”
The success of the Right-Wing Narrative Construction machine is truly astounding.
It is a mischaracterization to put this on a right-left axis. Plenty of Americans of differing political persuasions have avoided Detroit products and don’t like the idea of now paying for cars that they intentionally avoided buying.
By the way, I’d suggest that you do a bit of Googling. Rick Wagoner threw his financial support behind Mitt Romney for the presidential race. Not the Democratic Obama, but the Republican Romney. Funny how life works sometimes.
Clients who owe me money don’t get a pass from paying my bill just because they ran themselves into the ground and are having trouble stepping up. They still owe me the money, no matter what.So you won’t accept the ruling of a bankruptcy court?
Yes, GM has significant debts to the UAW. If GM goes bankrupt, the UAW gets to stand in line with the rest of the creditors and they get what they get.
Up until the point of bankruptcy, the UAW has the legal right to everything it’s been promised. Once GM goes bankrupt, a court will decide how much they really get. If anything. So it may well be in the UAW’s interests to accept lower payments now in lieu of bankruptcy.
One way or the other they are going to make more concessions. The only question is how much they decide versus how much is decided for them.
So you won’t accept the ruling of a bankruptcy court?
Obviously, in that case, I’d have no choice, the government has a funny way of making its opinions stick.
But GM hasn’t filed bankruptcy, at least not yet. The UAW has been compromising like crazy, unlike the bondholders and banks, who still want to get paid all of what they are owed.
Bondholders have already taken a huge haircut. You tried to sell your GM bonds recently?
If the UAW wants to stick to its guns and insist it ain’t giving up anything, well, that’s within their rights. I hope they’re saving their paychecks.
Nonce: the UAW doesn’t have to make any concessions. They can demand the terms of the contract, and they will get bupkis in the liquidation.
Robert Schwartz: I was referring to the losses the UAW would suffer in liquidation as their concessions, only involuntary. A rhetorical device, if you will.
You tried to sell your GM bonds recently?
The bondholders still have the right to collect the coupon, and they are collecting it. They aren’t offering a lower interest rate to the borrower just to be nice.
Isn’t part of the problem that these “future” costs have (or are) being put on the never-never plan? So they’re not actually “paying” them, just adding to the FRIGHTENING taller-than-Everest mountain of DEBT.
@PCH101
The funny part about Wagoner supporting Romney is that Romney himself said that GM and Chrysler should be allowed (e.g. forced) to fail.
The funny part about Wagoner supporting Romney is that Romney himself said that GM and Chrysler should be allowed (e.g. forced) to fail.
Thanks for picking up on that.
Wagoner gave GM’s presidential donational money to a guy who wants them to fall off of a cliff. The guy who is willing to help them didn’t get a penny.
Another classic case of GM shooting themselves squarely in the appendage.
You have a compound problem.. when you solve a problem artificially.
Dad goes to work for GM.. GM pays him good money… Dad has no reason to improve himself or the company… Dad get promoted and now makes decision due to seniority rather than education or merit. Son watches dad and says why stay in school and drops out to join GM. Now we have uneducated dad and uneducated son making cars for the us consumer who is much more educated thanks to the internet and Google.
My friends and I went to school… we fight for every job we get.. we keep improving our selves every day and fight against other companies both US and foreign. The fear of loosing our jobs and loosing our footing on the job, this keeps us sharp.
We need the fear of god put into the US workers… for that I am willing to endure a long and hard recession.
We are being taken by German and Japaneese who have high costs of labour… wait till we get the Korean now followed by Chineese and Indian cars in a few years.