Well, you know how it is. Every now and then we turn our anti-flaming rules off so that we can debate our editorial stance– or, more precisely, stances. In other words, if you wish to slam the site, this is the time and place to do it. That said, I will delete comments that stray over the line between you suck and here’s why and you suck you NSFW NSFW NSFW. To get things started, I’ve republished an email from a “fan” after the jump, with my answers to his main points. In any case, thanks for all your comments, which help make TTAC an island of semi-sensible discussion in a sea of inchoate insults.
“I’m still not able to post to TTAC….short of maybe getting a new e-mail address. BUT, that may be OK. At one point, the TTAC commentary on the Big3 amused me. But as time goes on, it appears to be more and more biased, specifically against GM, the company that I am a part of, and I have recently been reconsidering the impacts of TTAC commentary.
You often call others out on non-objective journalism, but I would like to ask you to look in the mirror. I applaud your mission to provide “Candid and unbiased auto reviews by industry experts”, as this allows consumers to make more informed choices when they make one of the more significant purchases in their life.
If, however, a customer is reading about a great new car that GM, Ford, Chrysler, or even Tesla are making, but the first editorial that pops up is slamming the company, culture and management…..don’t you believe that person will reconsider the strength of the review and their purchase decision.
Yes, I’m suggesting that the management editorials may be having more impact on customer choice than TTAC’s unbiased product reviews.
As I mentioned before, I am a part of GM, more specifically an Engineer in Product Development. I take a significant amount of pride in my job and the talent of my co-workers. There are many things that can be improved with the way we do business, and we all work to make those improvements every day.
The environment at work is NOTHING like quoted in one of your pieces. There is a major level of concern regarding all of our futures, but there is also a sense of hope and optimism that we will get to see the results of our hard work as successful products in the marketplace. I have yet to see people praying to get out or excessively stressed about their careers. What I have seen are people putting in longer hours, bonding together, and trying to make the best of a very difficult situation.
Your commitment and devotion to TTAC is very clear. I ask you to please consider:
1. What do you REALLY want TTAC to accomplish and stand for? How is it doing?
2. What kind of culture do you want to encourage? Criticism, support, or objectivity?
3. Is TTAC’s current stance truly un-biased, or is there a huge “I told you so” in the making?
4. How much are TTAC editorials affecting consumer choice? Are consumers really coming away from the site with unbiased information?
5. What kind of companies should the American People support? Companies that have for many years contributed technology, safety, financial support, and higher standards of living, to the betterment of our society? Or, should we support those that contribute in a more self-serving manner. The text below highlights this concern.
6. Are your words putting your neighbor (figuratively, not literally) out of work? Thank You for taking the time to consider another viewpoint.
My reply:
1. As a source for the truth about cars. You tell me. Oh wait…
2. Yes.
3. I’m not sure what “truly unbiased” means. Is it different from unbiased or not-so-unbiased? All I can say is that we– me, you, other writers and commentators– call it like we see it. We try to tell the truth as best we can– given the inherent limitations involved in that pursuit.
4. We must have some impact on consumer tastes– otherwise manufacturers wouldn’t be running ads on the site. Or, on occasion, giving us access to press cars. I’ve had around 50 emails from people who said they bought or didn’t buy a car based on our recommendations. Not a single complaint in that regards. Yet.
5. Americans should support companies by buying the goods and services that they want to purchase (as opposed to, I dunno, a taxpayer-funded bailout). As long as these companies adhere to all applicable laws and regulations, they’re OK with me.
6. My primary responsibility is to tell the truth about cars (and carmaking) to my readers. My second job: to provide a safe place for vigorous debate, so that TTAC’s Best and Brightest may share this freedom of speech in an atmosphere of mutual respect (with a bit of a kick to it, admittedly). My third… nope, that’s it.
RF
No Racing????? still????
I recently took a business trip to Nor Cal. I ended up with a Pontiac G6 as a rental.
All I can say is that you were spot on with the problems with the American Auto Industry. The car after all was not all bad, but to put it next to an Nissan Altima and think that GM is trying to compete with this? To say I would not even want to wipe my feet with the plastic trim is a harsh comment but that does not mean it is not true!
Of course there were times were I disagreed with TTAC, however there is no other site I’d rather read when it comes to Cars.
I love the Death Watch series and it has in no way changed my bias about GM. My wife’s 2003 Pontiac Grand Am (bought before we married) sure has cemented my opinion of GM though.
If Mr. GM Engineer had anything to do with that pile of garbage I have 6 questions to ask him, primaily comparing it to the superior quality of a much older Honda that it shares the garage with and what he was doing for the time between when each vehicle was designed/built.
Is it too much to ask that a newer car be of superior quality & engineering than an older one?
Robert, that sounds like invitation from my rabbi to critique the service without hurting his feelings.
Answers to questions in order asked:
1What do you REALLY want TTAC to accomplish and stand for? How is it doing? – this is your site and if its doing OK why bother? but if it’s not your audience will not help: we are here and the rest of the world not.
2. What kind of culture do you want to encourage? Criticism, support, or objectivity? If you want objectivity you have to allow criticism, without Pravda style editing. If you want support – you are a nice lad.
4. How much are TTAC editorials affecting consumer choice? Are consumers really coming away from the site with unbiased information? Consumer choice is more affected by CR and JD Power. It is appear to be site for auto enthusiasts, albeit policed like Pravda during Socialist days (actually Pravda is more democratic then your site at the moment)
5. What kind of companies should the American People support? Companies that have for many years contributed technology, safety, financial support, and higher standards of living, to the betterment of our society? Or, should we support those that contribute in a more self-serving manner. The text below highlights this concern.
By definition of free society American People should support companies involved in Free Enterprise. Founders of Constitution are turning in their graves: banking and auto bailout being the reason
6. My primary responsibility here is to tell the truth to my readers. (Yes, the truth as I see it.) My second job: to provide a safe place for vigorous debate, so that TTAC’s Best and Brightest may share this freedom in an atmosphere of mutual respect (with a bit of a kick to it, admittedly). My third… nope, that’s it. – And what if you are wrong? And what if debaters are wrong? Constant policing is not democratic trade, granted it is your site and you free to do what you want, but you will not increase popularity by censorship.
My 2 cents
I’m just curious — did the GM engineer send a similar email to the GM fansites such as Cheers and Gears or GM Inside News to complain about their bias?
I suspect that the dissatisfaction isn’t really with any “bias”, whether real or imagined, but with the criticism. When you live in a bubble, anyone with a needle is going to look like the enemy.
@HEATHROI:
It’s just too big a chestnut to add to TTAC. You could run a site as large as TTAC but entirely about F1 (or NASCAR) and nothing else.
There are other reasons too, but staying on mission is the big one.
GM Engineer: I take a significant amount of pride in my job and the talent of my co-workers. There are many things that can be improved with the way we do business, and we all work to make those improvements every day.
The problem isn’t with you and your co-workers…it is the people who should be setting the goals for the company, and articulating a long-term vision that includes strong brand identities and building the best vehicles in each segment.
Your leadership has failed you, not TTAC, its readers or people who buy Toyotas and Hondas instead of GM vehicles.
And, as someone who reads several auto blogs daily, and still reads some of the old-fashioned buff books, I must say that this site is an invaluable resource. It provides a desperately needed perspective on the industry and its products that is sorely lacking among the buff books and even the business press.
Keep up the good work, Mr. Farago.
TTAC often gets tripped up in its own clever wordsmithing, to the point that the point they are trying to make is lost. There was one vehicle review earlier this year (can’t remember which one) that was almost completely unreadable.
Things have improved here recently, however. Articles no longer read like an excuse to print a bunch of cutsey metaphors and turns of phrase. Mostly.
Bring back the cheerleader photos.
5. What kind of companies should the American People support? Companies that have for many years contributed technology, safety, financial support, and higher standards of living, to the betterment of our society? Or, should we support those that contribute in a more self-serving manner. The text below highlights this concern.
How about the companies that fight environmental and fuel economy regulations the least rather than being dragged kicking and screaming into loophole-filled regulations which subsidize the worst vehicles the most? Doesn’t that also count for the ‘betterment of our society’?
I’ve stopped reading editorials. They’ve become too depressing, which I guess fits the current situation.
Maybe it’s time to buy TheTruthAboutTheBailout.com. It’s come to dominate the website to the point where car reviews, which were the site’s bread and butter, are now secondary.
(Unless of course this is your new editorial intent).
Two comments:
1) Drop the “TTAC Called It” tag line. It comes across as childish and insecure.
2) A while ago you ran a series of reviews that was actually a comparison between 3 or 4 “import” midsize sedans. The new Mazda6 won. In the comments in one of those reviews some one roughly chided you for not including “domestics”. In the same comments section you (TTAC) appeared to take up the challange and I thought you had decided to include them or, at least compare them against these sedans. Unless I missed it, so far you haven’t come through. Malibu? Fusion? Sebring!?!?!?!??!?!!?
Where are we at on that?
Other than that? Great work, guys.
TTAC seems to almost always use PR photos of vehicles they have reviewed. These PR photos are somewhat decieving as they are usually not the same trim line actually reviewed by TTAC.
Doesn’t anyone at TTAC have a digital camera?
I’m not sure why it bothers me, but I really can’t stand the “TTAC Called It” headlines. It just smacks of the same arrogant behavior of the domestic automakers and sounds like a schoolyard taunt.
That’s about it for gripes from me, I really enjoy the site.
I bet that engineer wrote that while sitting in his cube, pretending to work. Note to others: meetings are a great time to catch up on emails.
Still, TTAC needs to get more non-domestic news. I just read AN and saw Porsche sales crater, way worse than the other luxury makers.
TTAC has become an auto industry website rather than a site for auto fans. It’s still way better than Jalopnik, etc., but the thing that attracted me to TTAC in the first place – honest, amusing, creatively written, Top Gear-style reviews of auto’s and editorials – has been swallowed up by interminable and indistinguishable deathwatches. Also, the niggling at Autoblog is tiresome. I bet 50% of the people that look at TTAC also read Autoblog.
I have said before I find the site very entertaining. My only criticism of this site is that it purports to be an unbiased source of information. I will give credit where credit is due, TTAC has been an equal opportunity basher of all manufacturers, particularly of late. However, it is pretty laughable when TTAC suggests/pretends that it is not taking great pleasure in the perils of the Domestic automakers. Same holds true for most of the posters on this site.
Whether it is admitted or not, everybody who writes for this site and posts to this site knows darn well TTAC is created by and caters to those who cherish every negative news item, or painful public humiliation that the domestics experience.
I would have no complaints if the titles to articles read like this:
YES THERE IS A LORD: GM States it is Weeks Away from Bankruptcy
WOOOHOOOO: Chrysler monthly sales tank
CELEBRATION TIME: Ford $7 Billion closer to Chapter 7 after quarterly report
At least it would be honest.
“Is TTAC’s current stance truly un-biased, or is there a huge “I told you so” in the making?”
First of all, there is no such thing as “un-baised”. PERIOD!
Everyone, no matter who they are, will have some kind of bias in their decision or comment. Even a comment as simple as “It’s sunny outside” has a bias implying that the person thinks, IN THEIR OPINION, it’s sunny ! Maybe, to me, it isn’t !
Is TTAC Bias…. Yes. So is everyone else
Is TTAC Bias against Detroit/American Autos…. Yes. No matter how good the information is, it is protrayed as “Too Little, Too Late”, “Vaporware”, etc.
Is TTAC Bias against other automakers…. Yes, but overall, to a much lesser degree. Why not a VW Death Watch, etc ? They have commented negatively on models (VW Routan comes to mind, but that is again, a thinly veiled attack on Detroit/Chrysler)
My two cents:
It would be nice to to see artices written from both points of view , more of a debate then an editorial. This would leave the reader to make his/her own decision. Then again, maybe there is no one at TTAC that can write anything nice. Will it happen? … NOT A CHANCE !
Will I visit and comment on TTAC? Sure.
Will I believe every word I read blindly? NOT A CHANCE.
Personally, I believe all of the Big three will survive in some form. GM will survive, Ford lucked out and has been able to sell/borrow what they need. Chrysler, will survive, but not as a stand alone company. Diamler trashed Chrysler and its only hope is that Renault/Nissan buys them. If not, someone else will. I don’t see them going Chapter 7 or 11.
But, you know what? That’s the beauty of free speach.
And as Dirty Harry said so eliquently in the Direty Harry movie “Magnum Force” (I think) “Opinions are like A**holes…. Everyone’s got one!” And unless you are some mutant, I bet you do too !
I read TTAC every day
But sometimes I think it has become “Trash Talking Auto Column”
In my opinion too much politics not enough cars.
Especially lately, it seems you are really reaching for articles on the bail out. I find myself skipping over articles now, because I know what the comments are going to be and who is going to make them. SSDD.
More real car articles, more reviews, the one on the old VW bug is good, more of that.
Oh, and one more thing. Quit bashing other auto writers and their media. Write original material that people want to read!
I agree with others the articles are almost impossible to read sometimes. Lots of incorrect spelling, words left out, poor grammar, even in headlines. That does not come across as professional. Having said all that I’m still addicted.
Keep at it.
I see some of the ads have gone from KIA to Porsche that’s good.
My critiques:
-Put a final nail in the coffin of the paper magazines, buy a VBOX and get dyno access so you can produce objective performance numbers.
-Try to hustle more test cars, that coverage is getting a bit thin.
-Stay on message about the bailout. The real problem with the bailout, from a car enthusiast’s perspective, is that in the long run it will destroy the American automobile industry. The fact that it will destroy the American automobile industry at the taxpayers’ expense only adds insult to injury.
-Reduce your coverage of new taillight designs.
What’s good:
-Reviews of past cars and foreign market cars.
-Not spiting out every manufacturer press release verbatim.
-Coverage of the government as it relates to cars. Cars do not exist in a vacuum; coverage of road privatization, toll scams, speed and red light camera scams and government bailouts/interference is critical.
Response to others’ criticism:
-The bailout coverage should influence car buying decisions. Personally if there is a bailout I will swear off domestics forever, others may want to also. The bailout news also effects whether a car will retain its value, whether the brand will be around in the future and what discounts a customer may possible negotiate.
-Sorry, but coverage of the single biggest event effecting the future of the automotive industry should not be censored just because it might keep someone from buying a GM.
-The bailout coverage is not going to end. Hell, it took Britain 30 years to finally take British Leyland off life support. The American government’s destruction of the US auto industry with be televised blogged.
-Nobody is completely unbiased. However, TTAC reports the source of every test car and any covered costs or perks that came with that test car. TTAC also reports any perks that come with autoshow trips, etc. Transparency is the best cure for corruption.
-The Bankruptcy cheering is led by people’s desire to see these companies finally shed their liabilities and reorganize. The other option is American Leyland. People that want to see a strong revitalized American automotive industry are rooting for Chapter 11s; people that want to be given government welfare as big-3 employees or dealers are rooting for a bailout.
-Sorry to hear that the guy who wrote you the e-mail is a GM engineer, he will be one of the first to be laid off as GM converts to a hollow shell of a company existing only to pay off politically protected UAW members and car dealers.
The only criticism I have towards excellent TTAC
(besides that it is single language – but Robert Farago will drive a boatload of interpreters straight to the madhouse)
is that they are not encouraging EV a bit more.
Let me get this straight: I rate Alan Musk from Tesla as a uncultivated asshole of the worst kind and the product the company he has shanghaied a pile of shoddy screwed together imported crap.
No innovation but thick marketing smoke.
And many other EV wannabes incapable.
True
But there is still Fisker and Lightning to look at- and probably many more behind some stall doors
TTAC could only by looking (in that way promoting) into new ideas of transport foster and push what eventually anyhow comes:
(note: never underestimate the power of TTAC)
The inevitable transition from oil as energy source to a alternative energy in public / private transport.
It will come – with Obama as POTUS even faster
– and please visit some public transport systems in Europe & Asia – you will wonder what refined systems (including super-capacitors many years already in use in public busses e.g.) are in use. And how comfortable they are. You dont have to fly to Mars to find new ground – visit a modern tube system in Europe and a new world will enroll in front of your eyes.
Hundred electric Smarts are running in NY. Berlin and London – criticize them, smash them, make fun of them but please cover them!
More car reviews!
More comparisons and tests, too.
You should also let people rate reviews – this would be helpful when it comes to deciding whether to re-review a mildy refreshed car (as in, if people don’t agree with the previous review, it might be time for a new one).
Perhaps a departure from the traditional “blog” model (text on the left, shortcuts and ads and the right) is in order. IMHO the blogging thing is so 2005. This site can be bigger than that.
Finally, the Yahoo! finance bar looks out of place. If you can, please re-skin it to match TTAC’s background, or drop it alltogether.
My main problem with TTAC is how “North America-centric” it is; unless there’s a story about how another country is fairing badly, then suddenly, TTAC is a “global site”.
My particular gripe is how TTAC talks so much rubbish about the UK car industry.
TTAC wrote a story about Nissan in Europe and in it TTAC called Nissan Sunderland, UK the “English patient”. In a later thread, I called TTAC out on this asking “why did you choose this phrase?”. It made no sense to me as Nissan Sunderland, UK is the most productive site in Europe and is one the best run car manufacturing plants in the world. Its productivity is continually used as a benchmark for how other car companies’ car plants should run (Carlos Ghosn used Nissan Sunderland, UK as a marker against Renault’s plants when he was figuring which Renault plants to shut down). Nissan Spain were laying off workers, whilst Sunderland were taking people on (because the Qashqai was such a success). Also, Nissan Sunderland, UK, were given the contract to build the Nissan Micra replacement. But these stories are never reported.
But despite all of this information (information which takes very little research to find out), TTAC referred to Nissan Sunderland, UK as “The english patient”. This is embarassing for 2 reasons:
1. It can irk readers (i.e myself) to hear people mocking something they don’t understand.
2. It makes TTAC look stupid. i.e slagging off something which is clearly being run well. It looks like TTAC haven’t done their research well.
Another case in point is Jaguar.
Firstly, the X-Type.
I’ve been a big defender of the X-Type and it surprised me how TTAC (and people on here) derided it. But the comment which really got me was when someone said how Jaguar cars (especially the X-Type) were unreliable. Yet, when I produced a survey which showed that in the last decade, the most reliable car made, which didn’t come from a Japanese maker, was the Jaguar X-Type, it threw a few people. So much so, they ignored the survey and carried on mocking it. How can this site be taken seriously if information, contrary to popular perception, is just ignored? At the very least it should have been analysed.
Secondly, the XF.
Yes, the electrics may be a little shoddy, but is it worth slamming? German cars have much more shocking electrical problems (no pun intended), yet people give them an easier ride. It just seems TTAC don’t give Jaguar a fair chance.
Speaking of ignoring facts. can I point out to TTAC that the UK DOES have a car industry! Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Vauxhall, Bentley and Rolls-Royce all manufacture cars there. Ford produce ALL the diesel powertrains for all their cars around the world in the UK. Now, granted they are not UK owned, but there is still a significant car industry there*. This should allay any fears that if the big 2.801 go belly up, it won’t be game over for the U.S car industry. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and many won’t leave the U.S. MGRover died nearly 5 years ago and the foreign competition didn’t go anywhere.
On a pluspoint, the deathwatches are good. Vital, in fact. Again, if the big 2.801 go chapter 7 or 11 (“7-11”, geddit?), historians will need to read the deathwatches to remind people that the big 2.801 didn’t die because of unfair foreign competition or the credit crisis. It died because of lazy management. Trouble is, TTAC seem more focused on GM’s deathwatch and less interested in Ford’s or Chrysler’s (suicide watch). Why is this? And don’t say there’s nothing to report, because Ford and Chrysler were sitting right next to GM at Capitol Hill.
Anyway, I’ve burbled long enough. I’m off to watch “Arrested Development” Tobias Funke is too funny.
Until next time, this the crazy car chick, signing off…..
* = And before anyone says “But the U.K car industry is cutting jobs and idling plants”, may I remind people that car companies are doing that GLOBALLY, it’s not just a U.K problem.
200k-min:
Blame the accountants, not the engineers. The accountants make all the decisions and they are a bunch of non-car people morons.
Some of the target pricing given to Purchasing for parts was so unrealistic, you end up with crap.
More politics accompanying cars please!
– bcs you cannot and must not ignore the elephant in the room.
Before the USA went the way of the UdSSR it would have been ok – but now:
Only madmen or badly educated would endorse that.
PS: I read TTAC daily
TTAC has the best editorials-commentary-opinions of auto-related topics around. I’d say TTAC has been pretty spot-on and way ahead of the curve regarding domestics GM and Chrysler.
OK:I read TTAC everyday, you got some greatt writers, allways entertaining.First question is TTAC bias?Yes it is. The whole theme is one of kicking the domestics and heaping praise on the imports.Great!thats your gig no beefs here,everybody has to make a buck.
So guess what you atract the import crowd and turn off everyone else.
Warren Brown is great domestic supporter but let him print something that TTAC doesn’t like,and look out.His class warfare piece was right on the money.How did TTAC react to that?
The Detroit Free Press and the Detroit news?
HEY!they write positive things on the domestics.
Who da thunk?
Robert make up a name and post some domestic positive stuff in the comment section.Use your top notch writing skills and wit.RF with all the tools you have you will still get the crap beat out of you.Phil Ressler come to mind?
I do really believe that TTAC is sincere in that TTAC is not cheering the demise of the big 3.However about 30% of the best and the brightest can’t wait for the end,and are cheering it on.
So far RF you are doing great job keeping the cheerleaders in check ,keep it up.
Robert get more writing from Steven Laing love his stuff,he is a real car man.Oh!and can you buy Ken Elias a new crystal ball for xmas,the old one is not working so good.
I’ve been a big defender of the X-Type and it surprised me how TTAC (and people on here) derided it. But the comment which really got me was when someone said how Jaguar cars (especially the X-Type) were unreliable. Yet, when I produced a survey which showed that in the last decade, the most reliable car made, which didn’t come from a Japanese maker, was the Jaguar X-Type, it threw a few people.
US data sources show Jaguars to have below average reliability. For example, JD Power’s 2008 dependability survey gives two stars to the XJ and three to the X-type, based upon a ranking system that has two stars as its lowest rank.
National pride aside, the cars just aren’t that reliable. You may enjoy them, but reliability is not their strong suit. For all the heat that they take, most Detroit luxury cars would be more reliable than most Jags.
RF,
Some comments:
1. The car reviews are great (if sometimes trying to be overly clever) and these should continue to be heart and soul of this website.
2. Editorials need a greater topic diversity. There is much to talk about in the world of cars and car culture that there is no need just to talk about domestic car maker’s woes.
3. The increasing use of girly pictures to illustrate unrelated articles detract from the professional content of the site.
4. There is a danger that the site is becoming too devoted to Detroit criticism. While most is valid, it does make the site sometimes feel like a rant blog and that detracts from my daily reading enjoyment.
5. It would be nice to have comment ratings system. I love reading the comments but don’t have the time to read them all. Allowing readers to rate comments and being able to sort by those ratings would be a useful feature.
I read everything, and I read Autoblog and Jalopnik too. I stopped reading LeftLaneNews regularly some time ago.
TTAC has the best editorials, and will triumph like an Ewok on Endor when the Galactic eMpire falls.
Or, as you like to say: “Or not.”
The environment at work is NOTHING like quoted in one of your pieces. There is a major level of concern regarding all of our futures, but there is also a sense of hope and optimism that we will get to see the results of our hard work as successful products in the marketplace. I have yet to see people praying to get out or excessively stressed about their careers. What I have seen are people putting in longer hours, bonding together, and trying to make the best of a very difficult situation.
This is one of the main problems with GM’s culture – any criticism of any aspect of the company is met with “you’re telling me I’m not smart and I’m not working hard enough”. That’s NOT what the criticism is saying.
There is a big difference between criticizing the company-as-a-whole, or it’s leadership, and attacking the intelligence and integrity of the rank-and-file.
5. What kind of companies should the American People support? Companies that have for many years contributed technology, safety, financial support, and higher standards of living, to the betterment of our society?
Value for money is one good marker to go by – they should support companies that give them value for money.
It might also be worthwhile to have a look at whether the company has truly fought for the interests of consumers, or whether it has fought against those interests.
Such as opposing the introduction of safety belts; opposing increased crash safety standards; spending money and advertising denigrating the efforts to create alternative drive trains and technologies; throwing loans after people who were clearly unable to meet their payments, in the process reducing the value of the cars in the used car market; lobbying politicians to maintain sub-par mileage levels …
That might be a company worth supporting. I’m with the above comments though – there are some stellar engineers and auto experts at GM, but they are being managed by accountants who clearly couldn’t care less about what their stellar engineers could have achieved for them.
More on about the cars, less about the industry.
To help put a reviewer’s point of view in context, list what vehicles he (or very rarely she) owns and/or leases.
“TTAC called it” annoys me as well, for the same reasons outlined by Ralph SS and jberger.
I have no reason to doubt your “inside sources” and no doubt you have verified most of them, but if there is any way possible to explain your authentication process without giving up too much about their identity, I think skeptics might find them more believable.
Opinions are like NSFWholes, everyone has one. I appreciate not only your content, but the ability to debate it via email or comments. Some policing of comments is unavoidable to keep things civil. Like freedom of speech, there have to be limits, such as the yelling of “fire, fire” in a movie theater not being acceptable. Personal attacks/flaming without any reason is the equivalent in my opinion.
Keep up the good work.
I sometimes think the site should be called The Truth about the Worst Parts of the Car Industry. The negativity gets tiresome. One truth about cars is that they’ve never been better. More powerful, more fun, more entertaining, more interesting, more connected, more comfortable, better built… There are a lot of truths relating to cars and their companies, and I’d visit TTAC more often if the chance of rain wasn’t always so high.
1) Whether it is admitted or not, everybody who writes for this site and posts to this site knows darn well TTAC is created by and caters to those who cherish every negative news item, or painful public humiliation that the domestics experience.
This. As pro-GM as one might expect the company blog to be, this site is the equivalent from the other side. The authors and most of the commentators hate the domestic auto industry. The stupid maneuvers from the Europeans and the Japanese don’t generate nearly the same press here. To call this perspective the “truth” is a farce. You’re about as unbiased about domestics as Slashdot is about Microsoft.
2) Style over substance. Many reviews on this site sacrifice objectivity and clarity for the sake of a “clever” turn of phrase. That’s another reason there’s little truth here; truth often comes in plain clothes. And why is there a word limit on a car review? There’s not a single person here who isn’t a car enthusiast; if there’s more information to be gleaned, we’re not the sort to stop reading just because the review has passed some arbitrary length.
3) Outside of reviews, the site content is uniformly negative. It’s depressing to read so much bile. Most days, I prefer Autoblog because it seems as if they actually like the industry they’re covering. Likewise, the rants at Autoextremist reek of compassion. Lorenzo seems deeply disappointed in what the industry has become relative to what it could have been. By contrast, the rants here seem to come from spite and a desire to kick people they’re down. It isn’t truth, it’s just mean, and it’s probably what I like least about TTAC. I thought it was truth when I first came here, but now it just reads like contempt.
My favorite part of TTAC is the insightful and often hilarious comments. The comments are just as important as the editorial content and every bit as useful. Now, I don’t know torque steer from my own ass from the proverbial hole in the ground, but I do enjoy benefiting from those of you with superior auto knowledge. Keep up the good work, everyone.
Pch101
US data sources show Jaguars to have below average reliability. For example, JD Power’s 2008 dependability survey gives two stars to the XJ and three to the X-type, based upon a ranking system that has two stars as its lowest rank.
National pride aside, the cars just aren’t that reliable. You may enjoy them, but reliability is not their strong suit. For all the heat that they take, most Detroit luxury cars would be more reliable than most Jags.
It’s amazing how people will point to JD Power when it suits them. Whenever JD Power has heaped praise on Ford, GM or Chrysler, then suddenly people are sceptical of their methods!
Incidentally, I could point you in the direction of surveys which show Jaguar to have good reliability. So, I guess this is a moot point.
Robert,
I am fairly new to this site, but find it to be one I return to daily. The quality of member participation is a major draw. It is refreshing to read and have interaction with those that really are informed and give a shit about the industry and what it produces. The rarity of flaming and bottom feeder commenting is very refreshing – aw, scratch that – gotta be a better word. Ha ha.
That said, please consider:
1. Expanding your car reviews to include much more detail. Why on earth are you limiting your folks to some 800 word constraint? The print rags are obviously limited. That should be your strength – in-depth focus on vehicles that doesn’t stop after a few paragraphs. And what’s with a couple of small pics? You run the risk of someone emulating your site and producing much more detailed review and extensive pics and HD video clips. As it is, you force consumers to go elsewhere for this. I know that it takes resources, but the price of web-hosting, HD video, etc. should be within reach.
I’m not advocating you become another Edmunds or Cars.com. I want to go to your site for exactly what your title says – the truth. From the editors, from the reviewers, and from the community. But you will have to have more content, aside from editorial viewpoints, about the vehicles themselves. What you have now isn’t cutting it for someone wanting to learn the DETAIL about a vehicle and WHY it feels or drives cheap. Tell us at length and show us with great pics and clips – all with a signature, consistent TTAC style.
2. Consider a bit less rapid-fire blog-type posts and more weight to the topics that get chosen. Content seems to sometimes run together. Also, a bit less bitching and more solutions put forth might show more people that you want things to be better, particularly for the domestics.
3. Go out and talk to the people who own the reviewed vehicles. Find out what led them to purchase the vehicle, how reliable and fun it is. Or is not. People love to talk. You could do a few metro areas – Atlanta, Houston, Denver, for example and canvas people that want to talk about the problems they’ve had and show you the orange peel, cheap dash plastics and the way the doors sounds like shit when you close them. That, along with what they love about the seats, the steering feel, and the little features they love.
4. The car forums out there are the closest thing we have to TTAC in a focused sense – unbridled passion for our vehicles, combined with the exposure of niggling problems (some of which they’ve found the TSBs or home-made fixes for) and major problems. Audiforums, Corvetteforum, Bimmerforums, etc. Links to and cooperation with these forums would probably be welcome, greatly increase traffic, and serve to keep everyone honest. Your source for content expansion just arrived. You could harness it. You could be a “meta forum” of sorts.
5. Consider a hard-hitting journalistic approach to getting at the answers to the tough questions. Not Michael Moore’s oft cheap shots, but fair and tough questions to those running the show, from the CEOs down to the line workers. Something along the lines of what Ted Koppel used to bring to Nightline. That would be getting to TTAC.
Farago, please please please learn how to use a hyphen correctly. This is the “-” character. I see you misplacing them on a regular basis. One example that often comes up is you saying “comes-up” and inserting a hyphen inappropriately.
Other than that, no complaints here!
Consistent podcasts, please, they’re really quite entertaining.
I like TTAC enough to read it almost daily.
I’d like to see more reviews of cars that are a few years old. Not everyone is considering buying a new car, and used cars can often be a great bargain. How about working with the True Delta folks and some owners of cars that are 3-15 years old to drive a representative sample and write a real-world review complete with model-specific things to look for when shopping? Better yet, identify which specific years within a model’s range are the least/most prone to problems. Is the extra power in a later year worth the greater likelihood of transmission failure? Do cars with certain upscale options require absurdly expensive repairs.
I realize this would be much more work than taking a spin in a press car and writing some clever prose. But, hey, why not?
I’ll be blunt since you asked.
The special sparkle that TTAC once had has dimmed considerably. I think there are too many reviews of esoteric out of reach cars and too many reviews of ridiculous trucks or SUVs and not enough reviews for cars driven by the majority. That Ford F-250 review was ridiculous unless it was a parody of car magazines advertisement influenced articles. The phrases “bona fide big-truck needs” and “BMW money buys a damn luxurious truck” appear in the same article. Are big-truck needs actually luxurious interiors? The review illustrates the mindset of a typical truck/SUV owner. It’s about bling not need.
TTAC does not offer car information for current buyers but is an enthusiast’s site. Low end high MPG cars typically get poor reviews and some moron saying “If they drop a V8 in there then they have something”. Big engined cars are drooled over and a 3 sq. in. piece of real wood on a dash will warrant a whole paragraph extolling luxury interiors. Maybe the site isn’t the place to find out information about a commuter car. There’s a whole world of cars out there why limit the site to trucks and muscle cars.
I personally don’t care for the suburbanites dream CUVs and talk about the smooth automatic transmissions and nav displays. If you’re an enthusiast’s site why are you so in love with automatic transmissions? I think the site is too California suburbanite influenced just like car magazines. Once I see the letters LA in an article I stop reading. Have you ever reviewed a car to be driven in an East Coast city with tiny streets and poor parking?
I’d like to see the comments limited to the article at hand and not veer off into political rants with Fascist and Communist camps waving flags. I’d also like to see less personal attacks made on people.
And I am sick of hearing anymore about bailouts. I know it is the hottest topic in the news but does it have to overwhelm all other news.
I would like to read more technical articles of car parts like DSG transmissions, variable valve schemes, suspensions, even, gasp, hybrid technology. If you’re an enthusiast open the hood, crawl under the car, and report on how it is built, how it does what it does well, or not, and spend less time describing the seat’s stitching.
Overall I like TTAC but I visit less than I have in the past.
Yeah, we need more cheerleader photos. Big ones! (I mean the photos, but I can accept a certain alternative meaning, too.)
Like many others here, I read all the blogs (although this one first, for some reason). Two things follow from this. First, inter-blog wars are kind of weird. No need to get into a criticism of someone else’s opinion – just post it and let the B&B take care of the rest. Second, and somewhat undercutting my first point, keep whatever tone you want. This site doesn’t have to be all things to all people, and if we want kinder, gentler, AOL-approved content we know where else to go.
Also, ditto on the pictures of women thing. While they’re not my particular cup of tea, I do understand that they are beloved by many current readers. It’s just that I’d love to forward Hypothetical Aunt Mildred a link to a review for the Honda Fit she’s looking into, but know that she won’t take it seriously if below it is a picture of Jill Wagner eating a $6 burger on the hood of a Tesla while in a moist t-shirt.
Finally – whither podcasts?
Not enough news about cars these days to offset the news about the companies that make cars. That’s just life. Good news? When there’s something significant about mycodiesel or other biodiesel, or cellulosic ethanol yields, that won’t starve the world in the process, wake me up.
It’s great to see articles from new writers inside the industry – Misters Elias & Schmitt come to mind, as well as the bankruptcy articles from Mr. Tilton. With any luck TTAC’s got enough momentum to pick up more such writers.
My feedback is flame-y, but I can light a few matches for you:
1. TTAC constantly uncover bias, junkets, and astroturf as hypocritical, while illustrating your own reviews with carefully staged and artfully lit PR-dept provided photographs. It is like chewing on aluminum foil every time I see that crap in a TTAC post. Show us the TRUTH, which is your own photographs, not the heavily art-directed and photoshopped to within an inch of their lives output from the auto maker’s PR dept.
At one time your promised to ramp up your own media (photos & video) content. I’m still waiting on that.
2. The constant ragging on Autoblog comes off as unprofessional and childish. Not that I’m a huge fan… their community + their high-volume Press Release output finally drove me away. But I stay here precisely to escape childish unprofessionalism. Either knock it off, or refine it to the point where it becomes pointed rather than petulant.
3. Slap your DBadmin for me please. I swear the delay between posting a comment and its appearance on the site varies from instant to HOURS, and seemingly has no correlation to anything obvious from the outside looking in. It is maddening to try and contribute to a lively conversation and seemingly have your output vanish into the ether.
Otherwise, keep up the good work.
–chuck
I humbly suggest the following idea for a topic. Auto love affair death watch. I find that I just don’t care as much about cars as I used to. I find the process of designing, manufacturing and marketing them more interesting than the cars themselves. Perhaps it’s middle age and a whole lot of “been there, done that”, but I suspect that there’s more at work here.
So, while reading TTAC is, at times, one of the most depressing things I do each day, the perspective presented here (and the quality and meaning of questions raised both by columnists and commenters) is second to none.
+1 for Verbal
I wouldn’t read the site if it was dry and not funny, however sometimes you guys get too clever, and I can’t tell if some convoluted sentence is supposed to be a criticism or complement. I also don’t give a shit about what other car blog sites think about you and vice versa.
As far as racing, maybe you could find a couple sites that had news and results and just add a link box.
@Mikey,
I’m one of the people critical of Detroit, but I think very few are rooting for its demise. We’re rooting for a reinvented Detroit that gets its act together. I wish the Oldsmobile I used to own hadn’t broken down so often. Telling that truth can be unpleasant to hear, but it’s the truth nonetheless. I wish you all the best and a happy New Year.
Speaking of technical problems, the edit function is broken.
I said:
“My feedback is flame-y, but I can light a few matches for you:”
That SHOULD read:
“My feedback is NOT flame-y, but I can light a few matches for you:”
–chuck
Maybe not so many blogs? What brought me to TTAC was the discussions in the comments, but they’re now sprayed all over, as new blogs shoot into place.
There were some really insightful threads previously, and now they’re as rare as a Volt on the highway going to D.C.
===
I don’t know about the industry bashing (writes an industry basher). I mean, it really deserves a thrashing, or? They are asking for oodles of money, while several of their competitors are doing OK, so something’s wrong, and it’s only recently that there’s been a general acceptance of this.
But I’m for looking at the future of automotion and mobility … there’s gold in them thar hills.
It’s amazing how people will point to JD Power when it suits them. Whenever JD Power has heaped praise on Ford, GM or Chrysler, then suddenly people are sceptical of their methods!
Strawman alert. You should make that argument with someone who is actually doing what you described.
JD Power has its advantages and disadvantages. I use it within those parameters. Personally, I tend to ignore JDP’s brand ratings, as they don’t seem to have any resemblance to their ratings of the individual cars, and often seem to be inflated. However, the reliability data for individual cars is useful, and generally correlates with other reputable sources. Jag does not do well with those.
In any case, I cited JDP as just one example of Jaguar getting uniformly poor reliability scores. I have not seen any reasonable surveys that say otherwise. While I appreciate your patriotism, it’s misguided when the facts don’t back you up and when the headquarters are in India.
Back on topic, I have to agree with the opposition to the “TTAC Called It” headlines. It goes a bit far, in my opinion.
Gripes:
1. Stop trying to make yourself look good by bashing other journalists. You only come off looking like a bunch of whiny wannabees. Every time you mention Edmunds you look green. Comments about others (like the Ray Wert piece just posted) give zero useful information and have nothing at all to do with TTAC. Would you want to read a column by someone at the NYT writing about another journalist at the Post?
2. Has TTAC ever posted a positive review? Please tell me because I haven’t seen it. If all reviews are negative, they lose credibility. i.e. If your scale only has one end, there is no relevance. Frankly, you guys all come across as people who actually HATE cars. It’s a little hard to take your opinions seriously. I wouldn’t ask Tim Robbins his opinion on side by side vs over/under.
3. Make an addition to your bios. Tell us exactly what car(s) each of you own. It helps to have a baseline.
4. Please elaborate on your answer to question #2 of the e-mail above. Yes, is not a relevant answer and tells us nothing. For someone so prolific with expressing your opinions, that answer is an obvious dodge and should be beneath you.
5. Drop the bullsh*t attitude. The “we’re the only ones telling the truth” bs is old and tired. Not even Howard Stern gets away with that line anymore and he practically invented it. If you really want to tell it like it is, then stop calling it “the truth” and call it what it really is, “your opinion”.
I don’t really understand the “pro-import bias” charges — TTAC has been pretty withering about a lot of imported cars, and Toyota has (deservedly) taken it on the chin quite a few times.
I think it’s unfortunate but unavoidable that the major focus in recent weeks has been on the bailout. I don’t think it can be ignored, but it is draining.
I haven’t been impressed with the quality of the reviews in recent months. I don’t imagine you’ve got the money to buy a fifth wheel and rent test tracks to do performance testing, but a lot of the reviews feel like the result of a few hours of around-town driving combined with a lot of snarky comments about minor interior styling details. I could get that by going down to a dealership and taking a test drive, which doesn’t tell me much. I read reviews to get more of a sense of the dynamics of a vehicle and how it behaves in various kinds of driving, beyond what I’d get in a test drive.
I feel like the level of snark in the reviews has often become forced. I’m all for snark — I used to buy Car just because their “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly” section made me laugh out loud — but a lot of times it feels like the writers are straining for it, which is no fun. (And I could frankly go the rest of my life without reading “craptastic” or “asstastic” or variations thereof again.)
I’ve also felt that the obsession with interior materials has gotten out of hand. Yes, some cars have a really depressing interior ambiance (thinking of a Hyundai Elantra I rented in 2006, which was like the inside of a bus terminal), but if we all bought cars on the strength of interior materials, VW would be selling a lot better, n’est c’est pas?
I agree strongly with carguy about the cheesecake photos. I feel like it drags down the property values of the entire site to a very juvenile level.
Ditto the feuding with other sites. If you have a rebuttal to an article somebody else has written, whether online or in C/D or whatever, I’m all for that — the willingness to say “bullshit” when something is obviously bullshit is this site’s strong point. But please keep it from turning into a middle school game.
“Irony is found in intellectual tension, not asinine non-sequitors.”
I refuse to bash a car site that includes comments like that.
I enjoy TTAC although less than I did before. I am visiting it less than I did beofre and I find I am commenting less on articles than I did before too.
While I like the site for its “call it the way we see it” attitude I find that the current level of vitriol spewed at the Domestic Loan/Bailout situation overwhelming.
While the Internet is the media of choice in our ADD world, I think a lot of the articles posted on this matter are repetitive and the comments attached to such are as well.
While the GM Deathwatch series got TTAC going (in some ways) and I always read it, it has become a very bloodthirsty series and that seems to have infected the news and editorial stance at large. TTAC has taken on a feeding-frenzied atmoshpere which has reduced my enjoyment of the site.
I still enjoy many of the editorials, reviews, the factiods about the used market and the perspectives on vehicles from around the world, I hope that some of the friendliness of the site can be recaptured, especially after this current loan/bailout situation gets resolved, one way or the other.
Katie –
How can this site be taken seriously if information, contrary to popular perception, is just ignored?
I agree, but this is human nature. Self perception is a powerful thing, and people almost never admit that they are wrong, especially in an all but anonymous forum like TTAC’s comments section.
I will say that TTAC is better than most for quality of discussion, respect for evidence, and general open mindedness. I read TTAC almost every day, and while it is biased (what website isn’t?) and I often disagree with the opinions expressed here, I reckon I don’t care.
The “truth” about cars is inherently subjective anyway, so my position is to bear in mind the biases of TTAC’s community and my own, and join the fray.
My one complaint about TTAC is that it is somewhat misogynistic. Between the gratuitous cheesecake pics, “Let’s oggle Halle Berry day”, occasional sexist comments, anyone calling a car “girly”, and dearth of women readers, I think there is definitely room for improvement. The year is 2008.
OK, put me down for:
– Car reviews and editorials are quite well done. A fixed word count enforces clarity but maybe 1000 instead of 800.
– I do likes me the fancy word-smithin’…more Johnny Lieberman please.
– Reader ratings on comments, editorials, reviews would be cool.
– There is a tendancy towards negativism in all categories…some of that is probably RF’s natural, but luvable, crotchety-ness…but since all forces balance in nature, a bit more positivism is likely more realistic.
– In an attempt to get all real-timey, there’s a few too many similar news articles getting spread out over a day or so. This causes both the articles information and the associated comments to get a bit spread out or redundant.
– No need for cheesecake… it’s the internet, it’s done better elsewhere.
– Keep a closer eye on the “disagreement vs criticism” re:other sites/opinions. Disagreement is fine, criticism is judgemental.
– Lose “TTAC Called It” … self congratulations is always smarmy.
Thank you and that is all…
gb
I read not only car review resources elsewhere, but also reviews in the performing arts and other hobbies in which I have an interest. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that there is no ONE Truth in matters for which opinion/taste hold so much sway.
TTAC has much the same function for me when it comes to reviews of cars. There are some reviewers here whose calls about certain cars or marques I have come to absolutely ignore and consider pure bull, because their writing style comes across as less a “review” than a hackjob. That doesn’t mean it’s not useful–I figure on the opposite of what they say, and it better fits my experience on what to do with the advice.
Suffice to say that much of the news blogging articles and editorials have the same function, or lack thereof.
I also vote with those commenters who wish some of the reptitive, tired attempts at clever cliches and similes would end.
Is TTAC interesting/rewarding to read? Absolutely. Is it THE Truth About Cars? Absolutely not.
Let’s have MORE Johnny, MORE reviews of used cars and euro spec rides, MORE peeks into Jay’s garage. Let’s have LESS complaining about other carblogs (it’s like the arena scene in Life of Brian–People’s Front of Judea! Splitters!) LESS complaining about things Clarkson does on TopGear and LESS business esoterica. For me anyway.
I will say that, lately, TTAC has become basically “all bailout all the time”, and it’s a bit much. Of course, this is THE story, and the daily ups and downs of the situation are newsworthy. Still, it would be nice if there were a few more reviews or non-bailout articles during this depressing time.
As for the comment that TTAC’s editorial is negatively impacting people who may be looking for car buying advice: I just bought a new Ford Flex, based in part by the positive review on this site. This in spite of the Ford Deathwatch series and the rather negative articles about Mullaly’s performance in Congress. So, don’t underestimate readers’ intelligence to be able to read opinion and reviews on the same site and take a balanced view.
I love the editorial slant and yet I’m a few days away from no longer reading TTAC.
Simply, I don’t have time to keep up with a blog I can’t read in my Feed reader. There are plenty of ways to monetize without using partial feeds. Do some research. Your reach will grow with full feeds.
Hi Katie,
As an X-Type owner, I cannot say I was overwhelmed with the quality of the vehicle but I did enjoy it and it was a pleasure to drive in all four seasons.
On the quality side: OEM tires had to be replaced at around 25,000 km, blown water pump, front suspension had to be rebuilt, defrost vent caps came loose.
For a car that rang in at almost $60K Canadian I would say that’s not right.
But I still loved it.
I’d still buy an XF in a flash too.
You need to put up a page with links to all of the GM Death Watch articles. The first hundred are hard to find.
First of all, I think TTAC is excellent. But there are of course always ways to improve things.
1) I also would like to see more car reviews.
2) While I love the bail-out/death/suicide watches, I think a little more diversity would be in order (one way to achieve this would be the car reviews). Maybe I’ll try to contribute a couple of Editorials again ;)
3) Where are the Podcasts? I was one of your 5 regular listeners, and I can’t get enough. Give me more, bigger and longer Podcasts…maybe you could also try to include podcast-debates every now and then…get some politician, GM executive, Jalopnik writer or whoever with an opposing view on the line and battle it out.
My $0.02 worth…..
the tone of trying to find the snarkiest quip to deride a car part is in vogue with the editors. It comes across sometimes as a bit over the top. It seems that if something is not state of the art, in your reviewers’ minds, then it sucks, blows, eats it, whatever. There doesn’t seem to be a middle ground between awsome and suckish. I’ve yet to read anything described as merely adequate. It seems like your writers don’t believe that the B&B will understand and appreciate the subtlety of anything not written in fluent hyperbole.
Other than sifting that chaff from the good wheat, keep up the good work.
How about some car reviews by our lord and master? I was originally attracted to the site by Frere Farago’s unique takes on automobiles and similes, and really, it’s been far too long.
I’ll just add another ineffective vote against childishness and snarkiness; maybe that’s what makes the blogosphere go ’round, but stuff like “TTAC Called It,” “Wild Ass Rumors,” the “Best and the Brightest,” relentlessly trashing the competition, etc., generates far more heat than light, although I suppose I probably get some aerobic benefit from eyeball rolling.
Finally, as to the various Deathwatch series, it’s pretty clear that they’re being written for the writing, not the reading. Whatever points were being made have by now been pounded into submission. Throw in the the same old comments by the same old commentators, and I’d suggest re-captioning the series “Preaching to the Choir.”
Ironically, the general tenor regarding the domestics kind of does a reverse psychology for me regarding car reviews on TTAC.
If there is a positive (especially four stars plus) of a GM wheel, than I know it must be quite a good car, because if there is editorial bias against GM institutionally embedded at TTAC, it means the positively reviewed car must have been that much better to overcome any pre-conceived negative expectations the reviewer took with him behind the wheel, before even turning the key.
Ditto for negative reviews about foreign brands supposedly feted upon here. Blasting the current xB and TSX are good examples of that, as is the lukewarm response to the new Fit, which right now is very much an “It” car in a segment that Detroit is under fire from all quarters (not just TTAC) for failing to have viable US-sourced product.
keep doing what your doing. bias or not. if there is someone that really doesnt like your point of view they will start up there own blog. You guys fill a niche in the market and your doing it well.
I read Autoblog, Jalopnik and TTAC everyday, all day. Each of the sites has its own “thing”. Autoblog is a flood of news and reviews. Jalopnik is sort of like car related entertainment for me. The kinda conversation you would have in the garage just BS’n with some friends. and then TTAC gives me all the details about the industry.
what i dont like. The constant strike through, and “NSFW”s and what not can get annoying. stick the the witty wording and leave the internet slag for the other guys.
calling out other sites on stuff can get annoying as well. if i had a problem with something jalopnik or autoblog wrote ill tell them about it. i dont wanna read about it here.
again. i love this site. visit constantly during the day. most of the time i dont close the browser and just hit refresh now and then. keep it up!
The E85 Boondoggle of the Day annoys me the most. So much so that I do not read it anymore let alone comment.
It is so one sided and biased. It ignores the Peak Oil problem that we face in the long run. There is a big story going on in oil supply and it has profound long term implications for those interested in cars.
It concentrates on the here and now just like the big 2.8 do. The troubles they are facing are the result of shortsighted management decisions.
E85 Boondoggle of the Day is equally short sighted and oblivious to what is going on in regards to liquid fuel supply, the implications on the auto market and the economy of sending huge amounts of cash overseas every day to pay for oil.
Other than that I enjoy the site and comment rather often.
I miss the podcasts.
Critiquing the industry is a valuable service. If they don’t see it that way, that’s a damn shame. Your job is not to be a cheerleader for the industry–something that is pretty worthless.
The debate in the comments is also often valuable.
Contrary to what the emailer implied, TTAC is not going to be responsible for the death of the shrinking 3. But had they paid more attention, it might have helped them survive.
Because a few folks asked, some rave reviews from TTAC. I don’t have time to set up links for all of them but you should be able to pull them up pretty easily. These are all 5-star reviews – there are dozens of 4-star reviews as well. I’m excluding exotics since those are all silly cars anyway.
5-Star Cars
MINI Cooper (berkowitz)
Jaguar S-Type (berkowitz)
Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5 (megan benoit)
Audi A4 3.2 (megan benoit)
Pontiac G8 (lieberman take two)
Mazda6i (william c. montgomery)
Mazda RX-8 R3 (lieberman)
Hyundai Genesis 4.6 (mehta)
Mercedes Benz C180K (solowiow)
Mitsubishi Evo X (karesh)
BMW M3 (shoemaker)
Ford Mondeo (martin schwoerer)
Ford F-150 midbox (mehta)
Another +1 on losing “TTAC called it.”
I’d like to see an option for headline-only display on the news page. With so many items it is very cumbersome to go back and find one that you want to check out again.
The use of strikouts, obscure metaphors and the excessively clever turns of phrase is self-indulgent and getting a little old. I like good writing, but somewhere there is a line, and I’m pretty sure you’ve crossed it when it takes work to suss out an author’s intent.
I don’t mind all the bailout news, but it does spread the comments thin. Not sure what can be done about that, other than setting up some type of master bailout thread and closing comments on some items.
Bertel is a good addition and fun to read as are the Deathwatch series.
The biggest PITA is the way the site is laid out to maximize clicks, makes it very inconvenient to read via PDA, especially on WWAN.
I bypass entire articles because of that.
To Mr. GM engineer:
I want to say that although I am against the bailout and would rather see GM and Chrysler go down than be propped up, I, and all of us at TTAC don’t have anything against you and your company. I reconigize GM as an icon of American industry, and the reason why I want to see it hit rock bottom is so that it can be reborn as a viable and profitable company, as opposed to the bloated, mismanaged mess it is today. I want GM to file C11. I want it to slash dealers to 1/4 of how many they have now. I want them to kill every brand except for Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet. I want them to cap the entire management team except for Bob Lutz, and I want the company to emerge as a viable corporation that has been downsized enough to fit its now smaller marketshare.
I will admit that I don’t like a lot of GM cars. I would not hesitate however to buy a GM car if I felt that I was making a good buy and that I felt that it was a better car than what its competitors were making. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Out of all 48 (I think) models GM makes, I can count on one hand the ones that I would personally want to own.
My Christmas wish this year is that Rick Wagoner and the GM BOD completely drops dead. I loathe them all to no end. Wanna know why? Because they took this great company, ran it into the ground, and are not dragging their feet and refusing to do what the company needs to make a viable turnaround. Last Christmas, I was in the GM Explorers program. As an employee on the GM development staff, I believe that you may have heard of this program. I met a lot of the GM product development staff in the process. Hell, I just may have met you! Who knows? Every time that I went home from my Explorer meetings, I felt sorry for each and every one of you. I learned that GM has great R&D staff that has the ability to make excellent products that could kick Toyota and the imports straight to the moon. The only reason why GM is instead getting stomped by them is because the idiotic beancounters up top are only interested in pinching pennies and making large salaries instead of making great products.
Remember the Chevrolet Corsica? It was the ultimate fleet queen of the late 1980s and early 1990s. Did you know that it was originally designed in the early 80s, and then just sat on the shelf? Imagine of the Corsica would have been released in 1984 as opposed to 1988. It would have made a huge impact on the market. But Roger Smith and the beancounters rather just keep doing the same thing and making generic, uncompetetive crapboxes instead of taking a risk. So by the time that it was released, it was rather unremarkable, as everybody was busy buying Tauruses or Camrys to notice. And Roger Smith and the management beancounted the hell out of the car, making it weak and unreliable, just for safe measure. Same goes for the Lumina. It was first drawn up in the mid 80s. Imagine if it would have been released in 1985 as opposed to 1990. It would have been so much more than what it actually became: A fleet queen that 18 years later is clogging up junkyards at an alarming rate.
I have nothing against you. The GM product development staff is full of intelligent and creative people. Such a shame that you will all soon be out of jobs. GM would not be begging for government loans today if the beancounters would have just NSFWed off and let you guys do your jobs.
Sincerely,
Anthony
RF-Overall I like your site.
The flame control is a big reason. I don’t mind (actually enjoy) slugging it out with a well or even average reasoned argument. But I hate dealing with whiny fanboiz who can’t do better than an ad hominem of some sort for a response.
A couple of suggestions.
1. Stop spending (wasting?) time on other blogs style, mis-steps or nonsense.
You actually define yourself and the site pretty well. Stand on it.
The blah, blah about other sites sound a bit snippy and distracts from who you are.
2. Be a bit more careful on the “cheesecake”. You seem to have done so lately and it is appreciated. Not down on the more tastefull stuff at all. Some of it even works with themessage of the article. Just be careful on the nudity and near-as-makes no difference shots.
At work it can get a guy in trouble, and lunch is not a time for trouble.
Just some thoughts.
Bunter
Chalk up another vote for more car reviews, and either longer or more frequent (both probably isn’t necessary) podcasts.
I’m also in favor of restraint with the cheesecake (though it hasn’t been too bad lately), as I often read the site at work, and axeing stuff like “TTAC called it”. The reviews in general have been pretty readable lately – cutting down on the unnecessarily-flowery language is much appreciated, as it’s pretty ridiculous in a few of the older reviews.
I hear you loud and clear.
Bailout fatigue has set in. So what if the bailout is the most important story in the American automotive sector since, well, ever? Chrysler’s going to die, GM’s going to get a shitload of taxpayer money (jn or out of bankruptcy), piss it away, file and die, Ford’s going to struggle and then file and be reborn and Toyota will still make boring appliances.
I could have told you that four years ago. In fact, I did. (There’s your I told you so.)
Meanwhile and in any case, you want more cars, less politics. More reviews, less meta-media bashing. More straightforward prose, less prose poems. More meat, less sizzle. More taste, great filling.
Sorry. Bailout fatigue comes to us all.
Anyway, I’m hereby rededicating myself to reinvigorating TTAC’s editorial mix.
I will ease-up on the Death and Bailout Watches. No more Autoblog bashing. No more Jalopnik trashing. No more Warren Brown bashing. No more check cashing. Kidding. I hope.
I will buy the damn headset, sign-up for Skype and podcast my ass off.
I will not use “NSFW” instead of the word “ass,” “piss,” “shit,” “fuck,” etc. The only strike through will be at the bowling alley. I will Google Strunk & White and learn how hyphenate.
I will return to car reviewing. More capsule reviews as well.
That’s about it for now. Rest assured, I’m reading every comment (as always), and considering every POV. Carry on.
I’ve got a few minutes, here are my two cents worth.
As another commentator wrote, TTAC has lost that sparkle for me. I don’t read many of the articles anymore. I merely scan the headlines and if there is something interesting, I might click further to investigate. Why the declining interest? Let me tell you:
– Tired of the negativity. Sure there’s lots wrong in the world, manufacturers, personalities, leaders, politics and of course cars, but why focus on it so relentlessly? It may be the truth, but so are so many stories about hard working people on the ground trying to make a difference within the bounds of their organizations and abilities. As I was once told, it is far easier to be negative than it is to give praise. Work that bit harder, make that effort.
– Self congratulations. Lose ‘TTAC called it’ and other self-pats on the back. This is the reason I stopped reading Autoextremist.
– Childish and immature digs at Jalopnik, Autoblog, etc. Sure they don’t subscribe to that holy doctrine you do. So be it. No need to chide them for it. Show that you’re in a class above that by demonstrating maturity and professionalism. Let TTAC be a beacon and aspiration to others, but no need to bash them if they’re different. Your audience is smart enough to recognize this. Seriously, counting the number of Mustang blogs at Autoblog? What are you, 12?
– Incomprehensible English. Sure you’re a wordsmith of superior ability, but why can’t you make your point clear and concise? Your wit and intelligence can shine without the distractions and hyperbole.
– Various deathwatches and bailout series. Let’s see, there’s a suicide watch, birth watch, death watches, bailout watches, boondoggle series and others I don’t care to keep track of. We get it. Enough already.
– What happened to the lowly car reviews?
With that said, I still visit daily for your site is better by far than anything else. Your openness, frankness and passion to the readers is unilke any other site I’ve visited and I respect that the most.
My favorite missing item? By the numbers.
Looking at 5-10 different articles to figure out that
Toyota is down x%
Honda is down x%
Nissan is down x%
Ford is down x%
GM is down x%
etcetera is harder to digest. Give me a monthly sales wrapup of some kind. It doesn’t have to have charts or even commentary. If you can take the time to scape the data and present it in a sorted list or a few sorted lists that would be an improvement.
by the same thought I don’t have time to read dozens of deathwatch/bailout articles a week. Keep the detail if you want to editorialize but give me a weekly or monthly wrap up that hyperlinks to the relevant daily articles if I need clarification.
I like TTAC in general but sometimes more is less and less is more.
I love the site in general, that’s why I’ve been coming here for years. Since you wanted constructive criticism, here are my thoughts.
I’m going to second the opinions that bashing other sites, like autoblog and jalopnik just doesn’t feel right. Even if I agree with your stance (and I do), it comes off childish. Like the piece above on Reagan video, okay, dumb on their part, but just not that big a deal to make a post about.
Same with the “TTAC called it” posts… “I told you so” just never sounds good. I understand wanting to remind people that you took a stance on something and were proven correct, but maybe a more humble tone might be taken.
Also as I’ve said before, love the car reviews the most. I’m glad you’ve been adding the older car time capsule reviews, like the one on the vw bug.
Overall those are just minor quibbles. Great site, keep up the good work.
RF looks like your readers are just as opinionated as you are, maybe more so. Great idea by the way to increase your readership by having your readers tell you what to write. Nice job !!! By the way I love your sarcasm.
Robert, that sounds like invitation from my rabbi to critique the service without hurting his feelings.
My rabbi knows better than to ask me for a critique. Well, he knows that he doesn’t have to ask, I’ll critique anything.
Great site, love you long time, etc, etc.
Please let go of the snark against other sites like Jalopnik, Autoblog, etc.
It makes TTAC look thin-skinned and bitchy. If you truly believe TTAC is better than these other sites, then ignore them. Stick to what TTAC does and do it well.
We know Ray Wert reads the site, and I’m sure he gets stiff every time he sees his name or Jalopnik called out here (it drives eyeballs to their site). Why pay any attention to that?
We are all smart enough to know spin/lies/ass-kissing when we read it.
Bob,
I read your TTAC columns daily along with the regular news. I know you can be opinionated but I figure that it’s only because you actually owned and operated a domestic automobile.
Keep up the good work. You are doing a great job.
@Anthony/Runfromcheney
Yes – hat tip. It’s not the engineers, it’s the damn managers!
:-)
Lower the Frequency of “TTAC Called It”
You guys Flat Out Do Not give enough Attribution for a blog. -Uncool. Do as BoingBoing.net does.
+Also, if somebody Sends In a Link or an Idea, GIVE THEM A PLUG/HAT TIP WITH A LINK!!!! -Share+Share Alike!
++Jalopnik is guilty of that^ form of classlessness, too.
I recommended the funny interstitials between bummer 2.8 posts, so people can blame me for that. GM was getting me down.
-But, the idea was good: More stuff in-between the Deathwatch, et. al. stuff.
You let the Communists like Psharnininninininjjjjian persist longer than I would. -But my grandfather’s Dick Cheney, so Oh Well: Freedom of Speech for Those Who Disagree With You is always irksome; -and I guess, necessary.
Like to see TTAC a bit more like MotiveMag at times.
I actually LOVE the Wit and Funny. It’s like having Oxygen to breathe after reading AB.
+And on that note, Less of the Bashing Other Writers. (except where it’s SCREAMING for it)
The Occasional Curse can be like adding Color to a Black & White presentation; so throw a few ‘Fuckers’ or ‘Muledicks’ in there occasionally every 9.5 posts, where it really does in fact, suit. (ex: ‘Emeril’ and ‘pigfucker’ are almost Synonyms in my mind)
Another thing I recommended to Jalopnik that they didn’t Hat Tip/Plug me for when they posted a link to Motive’s CF-Fabrication article, was:
a column like ~”FutureCars”.
->Love to see the occasional piece Here similar to the Nova/PBS thing on CF cars with the ‘Car Talk’ guys.
I Loved Ken Elias’ (?) Money/Investing side of things. Very Educational. More.
Wonder if you could/would want to do some kind of Project Car.
-Like the process of resurrecting a Starion for a junker race or something.
“The Truth”-concept is still valid, despite bias; every time I come here after AutoBlog, I’m reminded.
Layout’s good, Graphics need a refresh.
Maybe Mix things up with more Graphical Polls & Votes. -sometimes a Click is Enough to express opinion.
Brain otherwise empty now.
Please let go of the snark against other sites like Jalopnik, Autoblog, etc.
I agree with this too. I don’t want to read a blog about automotive blogs. I love the writing in the reviews and longer editorials here, but the relentless cynicism and negativity that blankets the front page is a turn off, even if it does have merit. I’m not saying you guys shouldn’t state your opinions, but editorializing should be left to the editorials, not the news.
Can you guys start reviewing tires? Performance, winter, etc. Fact: The average American buys more than 4 times as many tires than cars.
Also, there’s too many non-review stories that seem to just be filler. Trim it down a bit, we still have reason to visit daily.
More vehicle reviews, for sure. That’s what I love most about this place.
And I could deal with fewer news items and death watches. They’ve been pretty numerous as of late.
You can cover the bailout, for sure, but I feel like that’s 90 percent of the site lately.
Don’t buy this nonsense about bias against domestics. By that logic, if you review, say, the Yugo and the Civic and don’t have equally good things to say about either, you must just be biased against the Yugoslavian car industry.
Right now, the facts have an anti-domestic bias.
Instead of radically changing your policies and content after only 90 something comments, why not have a poll, or at least a response from a larger percentage of your readers and contributors? You may have a large majority that look forward to the greatest auto-related news story in many years; as well as product related articles. Just sayin.
On reviews:
One: It’s been said a few times before, but the reviews either need to be longer, or lighter on wit and deeper in content. Right now, they’re teasers when they’re good and shallow when not.
Two: The star system can go. It’s subject to subjectivity and not terribly useful. If I want quantitative measure, I’ll ask CR. If I want something more than than CR’s dry-toast road tests, I’ll come here. Let your writers breathe a little, their talent deserves it.
Three: Have a look at Michael Clark’s Inside Story reviews on CanadianDriver.com. Most of CanadianDriver (Jil McIntosh excluded) is a bit puffy or vapid, but these are an exception. Notice how he’s descriptive and useful without being dry? Notice the smart use of pictures to help the reader visualize his point? Notice the lack of stock photos? Try to aim for this, but with added gonzo.
Four: The “interesting” reviews are the best, when they’re not cut short. We can find a review of the Ford Flex anywhere; reviews of the Hilux or Beetle are a little thinner on the ground. Keep this up, it really is fascinating.
On the rest:
Consolidate your stories a little. The Bail-Out Watch stuff in particular, but the sales numbers discussions could do with the same. On the same note, I think you need to better differentiate Editorial and News content, if for no other reason than it’s hard to pick them out visually.
I like the watchdog of journalistic integrity stuff, but sometimes it does seem petty. I’d vet these stories before publishing them. Digging at Autoblog not disclosing sponsorships (like the Bluetec astroturfing) is fine. Digging at them for posting about Mustang cologne is like taking Bill Clinton to task for philandering, or George Bush for sentence conjugation: it’s low hanging fruit and you can do better.
I know they probably take a disproportionate amount of time, but I miss the podcasts. It helps humanize the posts (and would help people relate).
The loss of cheesecake isn’t really a problem, but the renaming of the Ten Worst Autos is a little bit disheartening. If it offends people, well, c’est la vie, they’d probably be offended by the content of the review or discussion anyways.
My comment simply builds off of KnightRT’s observation that the site drifted into merely shouting contempt rather than trying to achieve an improvement. Awareness is a small step in the process of actually being useful. Yes, you’ve made people aware of certain issues that they may have otherwise been misinformed. And yes, there are interesting bits commentary and editorial insight. But TTAC has never progressed to any position where it is driving beneficial change to the industry. Of course, sometimes I wonder if TTAC actually cares about the industry or if it simply cares about being right.
Along these lines, the relentless “we called it because we are smart” attitude seems to indicate a desire for vindication. But being correct in the context of the domestic auto industry is pretty easy… simply state the opposite of what you see in the average PR statement. Additionally, the notion of TTAC-worth is reinforced with the claims that circumstance would have been better “if the Big 3 listened to TTAC.”
Assuming that TTAC actually wants important decision makers to listen and take desirable actions – then I find it rather funny that TTAC and its affiliated individuals make almost no effort to actually enter the automotive industry. From the 1990s to about 2 years ago, almost any motivated and intelligent person could have started working for the Big 3. If you wanted to make a difference, you had the opportunity to do so by actually putting your skills on the line. But, it is much safer to make fun of those in the industry by chiding them or tossing out sophomoric sarcasm.
If the writers themselves wished to simply… write; there doesn’t seem to be a strong effort for the writers to form strong relationships with people at the Big 3 or even in the supplier base. So it seems rather empty to complain that the Big 3 failed to listen to a bunch of bloggers when it was just an audience of blog-readers that were made aware of important issues.
Many of the assumptions made by the writers could be improved if the writer was actually a part of the industry. Thus far, the only articles that I take seriously are penned by Ken E(alias). So it’s likely Ken is actually more than one individual – but it’s clear that the Kens are part of the daily grind and attempted to drive success in the American Automobile companies. We needed more Kens. Unfortunately, it’s fairly clear that the decay of the American automotive industry has reached a point where there are going to be severe casualties. It is disappointing to consider that the efforts of many good people in the Big 3 get lumped together into the same outcome.
RF,
I was lured to TTAC in part because it bats straight down the middle of my cynical tastes. It’s my daily source of entertainment/enlightenment/doom, and I enjoy participating. I’m commend you for taking this “heads up” opportunity to make sure your path and vision stays true. I don’t think you have to make radical changes and stop EVERYTHING people may view as wrong; much of it is just done in excess, so it should be scaled back and controlled. So here’s my 2 cents (and change of 35 bucks).
The Good:
1. Flame rejection – at first I thought it was a censor for anybody who opposed your views. But over time, I realized it served the purpose of filtering out all the stupid, inane, and just plain inarticulate (of which the blogosphere has WAY too much). TTAC’s B&B – while opinionated – are the best versed on the web. It makes comments entertaining to read with the rif-raf at bay, and easier to conduct intelligent arguments.
2. The automotive reviews are great – and they are a breath of fresh, unsolicited air. More, please (and I promise I WILL get around to submitting one… soon).
The Bad:
1. As engaging as the topic is, we are getting bailout fatigued. We need our daily dose, but not a daily pummeling. Time to cut back (on the quantity – not the quality).
2. As mentioned many times – the bashing of other media outlets gets old. This is The Truth About Cars – not The Truth About Blogs and Other Bad Journalists. I’m not saying stop calling a spade a spade – but you guys got a bit wrapped up in the meta-war lately. Focus.
3. I personally enjoy some of the little nuances that make TTAC unique – the NSFW, the nicknames, the poetic prose, the clever puns, strikethroughs, etc. But it has gotten a little thick, and gets in the way of the message. I’m guilty of it. Let’s keep it fresh, but don’t beat a horse long after it’s dead.
Observation: there’s a lot of nay-say, doomsday, “Eff em and leave em for dead” mentality that undermines the posts and editorials on the site especially in light of the current GM/Chrysler fiasco… and maybe that’s who we attract. However, I’m a little concerned that the counterpoint is not speaking up (it’s there in the comments, but rarely in the editorials or the news blogs), or is being ignored. I hope it’s the former – not the latter. Debate needs two sides.
That is all – keep tellin’ it like it is. All y’all. :)
I like the insnide industry commentary, and While America Slept, in particular. I could live happily for a thousand years if the words “whip”, “corporate mothership” and the old striken out insult gag never appeared again. In fact I stopped reading the reviews wayback, it would seem the reviewers were keener to reiterate TTAC cliches than actually drive the cars. A bit more fact checking by some of the writers wouldn’t go amiss, there’s some big heads full of opinions there. If you are going to write about technical stuff do it accurately, don’t just mumble the words.
You let the Communists like Psharnininninininjjjjia…
Heh. You should have seen me when I was younger. I was such a pinko I’d probably have curled your hair at twenty paces.
I’ll be honest, the comments are what draw me back to this site, not your editorials (your reviews are great though). How about a Slashdot style of peer review for the comments so I don’t have to weed through the English challenged writers for the gems that make coming back to this site a delight every morning.
More car reviews. I would wager that most come here for the reviews. Then while we’re here we’ll catch up on what’s going on in the industry. Your writers are great. I’d rather read one of their reviews about a car I’m not particularly interested in than read about a more interesting car elsewhere. Your guys have a knack for making any car review entertaining. I agree with other commenters that reviews should be longer. Keep reviewing older cars too. Good stuff.
Take your own pictures. If you comment about some particular body detail or ergonomic feature, take a pic.
I tire of all the bailout info and usually read the headline and scroll past looking for auto reviews, but I understand the importance of documenting and evaluating it. On this subject I trust TTACs info and judgment more than anyone else. Maybe one day I’ll wonder what the hell happened to the domestics, and I’ll come back and read up on it. Keep it up.
Stop commenting on Autoblog, Jalopnik or whoever else. I consider TTAC a class above.
Robert,
I have loved your Deathwatches. I have enjoyed your hard commentary on the state of the Domestic Auto Manufacturers. I think you do a great service in distilling down the issues so they can be resolved. I do see your love for the industry in the criticism given.
If you want to be more balanced though I would suggest identifying the areas where automakers succeed. I don’t see emough of that as a balance to the absurd we often see in the Deathwatches.
These practices may be as exciting as grass growing, but it does offer a palate cleanser to the usual Detroit Stew.
My critique:
1. Too much snark aimed at other websites. Nothing wrong with a good fisking but sometimes the sniping at AB or the Jalopguys is a little childish. One can build a brand without tearing others down.
2.Also, once RF takes a position (e.g. there are no Detroit haters, there is no class bias against autoworkers), TTAC holds that position even in the face of contrary evidence.
3. They let that lunatic Schreiber write editorials???!!!
OK. Eddy and I have been talking it through.
We’re going to slow it down, mix it up and increase quality.
I’ll concentrate on writing/editing the editorials and reviews. Eddy will handle the majority of the blogging, with Bertel and Justin and David and Martin and the rest filling-in as and when.
Your thoughts?
I agree with much of what has been said above, but must also comment on podcasts. It used to be an after-work ritual. Come home, fire up the Dell, and crash on my bed face down for 11 minutes and get the re-cap for the day. You and Justin and Justin and Jonny engage in some very enjoyable dialogue. Keep it coming.
A lot of these are repeats but I’ll join the chorus:
1. Stop slagging on other media outlets so much… or at least do it with a little more class.
2. Some articles read as if the author is just trying to cram in as many wacky metaphors and “clever” comparisons as wordcount permits. Can’t we stick to the cars?
3. The TTAC catchphrases should be taken out back and shot. They were funny at first but man do those dead horses get beaten to pulp.
4. Moderate the comments a little more strictly, and cut off the more worthless politcal tangents as they develop. Likewise, can authors avoid childish political nonsense? Someone wrote about the “Democrat Party” today. Is this a car site or a Limbaugh wannabe site?
5. Try to enforce a consistent editorial voice when it comes to how many stars a car gets in a review. If an author gives a car two stars, I can’t just assume the thing’s a piece of junk… I have to look at his previous reviews to see what makes him tick.
And most importantly…
MORE CAR REVIEWS PLEASE!
Keep up the good work.
The only review I really did not like was a bashing of ABS an ESP, stating that these systems were leading to longer braking ways. Both systems are standard in Germany, and the experience is that both systems are very effective in preventing crashes and slides. You had at that time in my view just continuing some kind of prejudice in the US on these sysems. A bit poorly researched, in my view.
Apart from that, I love this site. I refresh frequently during the day. Although currently it is near to impossible to keep up, and this also cuts of comments on articles – the articles just move out of sight of people.
On a positive note, the reviews of older cars are a unique and entertaining feature.
1)
To many posts that go “_______________ … or not”
2)
Blog postings about blog postings always annoy me, no matter what the content
3)
Not enough car reviews and not enough real pictures and video (taken by TTAC) in your car reviews. Sometimes it seems like you’re making stuff up.
However, this blog still is not afraid to call it as it is, even if it hurts people’s feelings, and that’s why I keep coming back.
PS.. Ronnie, althought it might be in zombie status now, check out http://www.beaterreview.com
Has anyone on the TTAC staff ever seen Robocop 2? You know how the OCP focus group alters Robocop’s programming because they thought he was too violent and a bad influence? Then afterward a rouge Little League team kicks his ass?
Along those lines, listening to your readers is good, but I hope RF doesn’t heavily alter TTAC so that it seems “nicer”.
@Ronnnie: Please re-post George Orwell’s recommendations for good writing.
The industry news and commentary is excellent. Keep that content in. Anyone who doesn’t like it as much as the car reviews and other material can bypass it easily–that’s the beauty of the Internet versus time-linear media like TV and radio. If you redesign the site to make it easier for people to pick and choose, then all the better.
I love the Death Watch series and it has in no way changed my bias about GM. My wife’s 2003 Pontiac Grand Am (bought before we married) sure has cemented my opinion of GM though.
If Mr. GM Engineer had anything to do with that pile of garbage I have 6 questions to ask him, primaily comparing it to the superior quality of a much older Honda…
Exactly.
I get sick of being accused of having “bias” against the Detroit 2.63. Since my parents were UAW workers, I “bought American” for 20 years. With my wife’s POS 1999 Buick being the final straw (it started falling apart at 20K miles for G-D sake!) I had enough.
Meanwhile, friends bought Toyonda and drove them 200k miles with little if any problems. It ain’t bias, it’s “fool me once shame on you, fool me half a dozen times shame on me.” It isn’t bias, it’s reality.
After all, Toyonda sales are down and they’re not begging Congress for money.
John
One truth about cars is that they’ve never been better.
That’s why bashing the Cobalt, a decent car whose gravest sin is that it’s not the class leading Civic, bothers me so much. I’m not saying it’s a world class compact, but I’m old enough to remember the bad old days of the 1970s when cars were not nearly as reliable or as well performing as they are today. Most modern econoboxes handle and accelerate better than sports cars did 30 years ago. They are much more reliable, both in terms of everyday use and their durability. Cars used to be worn out at 100K miles. And that was the domestics. Most Japanese cars in the 70s were not as durable as the domestics, with much worse rust problems. YMMV.
Perhaps it’s a case of the increasing importance of smaller distinctions.
I wonder what the median age of the best & brightest are. Having owned and driven cars with carburettors and mechanical point ignition, when starting a car in very cold weather was an iffy proposition, when you’d carry a screwdriver in the car just to jam open the choke if you flooded the engine trying to start it, well, it’s hard for me to bash just about any modern car.
It would be nice to to see artices written from both points of view , more of a debate then an editorial.
You mean a point-counterpoint like:
Farago, you ignorant slut.
Ed, you pompous ass.
Can someone please explain to me what “2.8” is? Is that some sort of calculation or something? I’m kinda tired of it and all its derivatives. Just call it D3 and be done with it IMO.
My one complaint about TTAC is that it is somewhat misogynistic. Between the gratuitous cheesecake pics,
PC bovine excrement. The proper term for men liking to look at half naked women is not “misogynistic”, it’s “normal”.
Robert,
There is a lot of your character in the site. I would take some of these criticisms with a grain of salt, many of the suggestions come with baked in new problems.
The reviews, for instance, are not too long–or short, they are a jumping off point for discussion and some latitude has been made where absolutely necessary.
The bailout story must be covered as you see fit. However bored the daily reader becomes, deathwatch et al are/represent a legitimate point of view. Congress and the New York Times editors could both benefit from a thorough reading of your coverage. I often suspect information and ideas presented here find their way into the mainstream WITHOUT reference. That is to say TTAC gets used without being given its due.
On the subject of “calling it” and criticizing other writers and sources, I don’t see a problem. Sometimes I agree, sometimes not, but like most of your readers, I can perform my own “between the lines” on your views.
Overall, beware the “too many cooks” syndrome. If you were too seamless, too slick, I might not read so critically or seek out opposing viewpoints.
So, you have an astonishingly good site, one with unlimited potential amongst automotive enthusiasts. It will evolve over time as readership swells but at the moment, I would describe TTAC as part scholarly journal, part first rate campus style publication. Like the Daily Show, its intense, earnest and fun. TTAC runs circles around its slick, sober and stupid competition.
It’s your baby, it’s your call.
IOtheworldaliving:
Politic and the English Language by George Orwell
4. Moderate the comments a little more strictly, and cut off the more worthless politcal tangents as they develop. Likewise, can authors avoid childish political nonsense? Someone wrote about the “Democrat Party” today. Is this a car site or a Limbaugh wannabe site?
I just love comments like this. The form usually goes like:
“I really hate it when people say XYZ, you stupid XYZ.”
Makes me wonder if people listen to/read what they say/write. Maybe it’s only childish when the other guy does it.
I could do with a little less of the clever, witty writing (which is sometimes distracting), and a little more substance (although there seems to be less use of the word ‘hoon’ or ‘hoonery’ lately). FWIW, the writing is much closer to the ‘golden’ years of what Car and Driver used to be than the mere shadow of what it’s now become.
The ‘retrospective’ reviews are a definite welcome addition.
And speaking of C&D, whatever happened to Brock Yates? He sure didn’t seem to last long. He wasn’t exactly one of my faves, even when he was at Car and Driver but I suppose he lent a modicum of legitimacy to the site.
*Sigh* I hope that Robert doesn’t take the site into milquetoast territory. IMNHO the only magazines that hd any sort of relevance *always* were opinionated, vilified and usually owned by one visible voice, i.e. owner. No corporate mouthpiece, trying to save ad dollars has been worth reading for years.
The blogs are exactly the same. The corporate or at least company owned blogs are tame, fractured and mostly lame. Only ones like here, opiniated but pointed have the interest. Look at the B&B… it’s lively and very well attended.
Please don’t change it to pander, I beg of you.
I love this site – no changes necessary for me. I would like to see a “despirate dealers” section for the B&B to report local dealer ads and promotions. On the way home tonight I saw the local Chrysler dealer is offering $10k off any ’09 Ram.
Oh shit, one more thing. Don’t burn out. Pace yourself, and take breaks. It’s nice to work from home, but pencil in some legitimate quality time.
I have one more thought for you. This one is structural. So far as I can tell, there’s no way to find posts I’ve made in the past, either for the purpose of following up on responses or to copy some particularly compelling argument. When stories fall off the front page, all of this content disappears into the ether. I’m far less inclined to comment if I’m certain the effort will be for naught in the space of a week, and I doubt I’m alone.
Is there some way to implement a comment tracking system of the sort standard on other sites?
1. Lengthier car reviews, please! Giving your very capable and skilled writers room to breathe (i.e., up to 1600 words) would permit (a) a more in-depth treatment of a reviewed vehicle’s traits, be they positive or negative; (b) an investigative synopsis of said car’s unique features (e.g., suspension design and behavior, aerodynamics and its consequent effect on fuel efficiency, or specific body attributes designed and engineered to ensure vehicle longevity); (c) the vehicle’s holistic impact on the driver and market. In my opinion, TTAC is the only credible and trustworthy purveyor of informed automotive perspectives on the web; this point is therefore critical.
2. I second psarhjinian‘s request for something analogous to Michael Clark’s Inside Story reviews on CanadianDriver.com. It’s a feature that, to my knowledge, has not been replicated by any other automotive website. Eminently useful, but TTAC can even find a different unique approach to analyzing an automobile and I’ll be forever appreciative.
I can understand taking a shot at Autoblog once in a while because it sometimes seems a little misguided but taking shot at personnel who are just doing their jobs is going a bit overboard.
I really enjoy the coverage of the automotive industry as a whole. That’s a big part of what drew me online as opposed to just reading the buff books. Nice work in that aspect, but keep in mind, there is a little bit more going on out there than just the bailout.
Finally, I know the line-up behind the scenes changed some but some podcasts would be pretty awesome.
Far from being one of the best and brightest, I’m just a casual visitor. I happened on TTAC a few weeks ago while looking for some information on the latest at Tesla.
The information on Tesla at TTAC was better than I found elsewhere. I also like the way the site looks, and read most of the comments.
Since then I’ve checked back daily on the Tesla Death Watch. Then the bailout hearings kept me checking back on that. The death watches on Tesla and GM have kept me coming to this site.
With the Tesla coverage stopped, I’ll probably be here less often. I’ve rarely been to Autoblog, so the feuding with it was over my head. But I don’t plan to visit that site any time soon.
My main interest is electric cars, and I got tired of EVWorld and its worldview. I’ll still visit TTAC from time to time, to see what’s happening. Best of luck to you.
There’s just way too much on the bailout. Total information overload.
More Berkowitz would be perfect. Otherwise good site.
Of course, it’s your site, and I visit often, but since you asked:
1. Too much groupthink. On the subject of C11 and bailouts, while you admirably open the editorial soapbox to any viewpoint, TTAC either attracts primarily like-minded commentators, or those are the ones who are most inclined to pipe up. Any columnist, etc. on another site who disagrees with the TTAC editorial stance of “no bailouts” is labeled as “crazy” on the news blog.
2. Too much quantity over quality. It sounds like this is something you’ve now decided to address, and I understand the SEO-centric purpose of many frequent content updates. Personally, I find it incredibly lazy to create a post with nothing but a YouTube video embedded and expect the “B&B” to create your content for you (I’m also a little jaded because YouTube is blocked at my work, so I see an empty square with comments below it).
On the same point, I used to think I was doing you a favor by pointing out typos, etc. in the material – not in an effort to make you look bad, but to help you improve your quality (I couldn’t care less if you deleted those comments after fixing the error). However, I didn’t want to sound like a prick pointing something out on every other or every third post, plus RF asked me to e-mail him with typos. It’s a hell of a lot easier to pop into the comment box immediately below the post than to open up an e-mail client (which would have to be webmail or my iPhone at work). So I stopped doing it, figuring I’m not paid enough to be your backstop editor. But a quick spell check of the titles (three L’s in Mulally, not four) and posts – plus one read-through before posting would help you a lot. You’re obviously a good editor, so take your time!
3. Too much self-congratulation. “TTAC Called It:” really gets under my skin. It’s something a six year old would say. The other thing that raised my hackles was when Bertel made a reference to TTAC as a “world-class 24/7 news source” or something to that end. While, again, TTAC is a great site, wouldn’t a world-class news source do mostly its own reporting of NEWS items rather than blogging news that’s harvested around the Internet? And is it in your place (or your writer’s place) to call your organization world-class? Let your readers make that decision.
4. Autoblog/Jalopnik/etc. wars are childish. Related somewhat to #3 above, I understand your theory of finding your niche by pointing out the shortcomings of your competitors, but it comes across as insecure and immature. How is TTAC attacking Autoblog and Jalopnik any different from GM bringing a Honda Accord and Toyota Camry into their showroom to prove the Aura’s mettle – which did nothing but prove that the Aura was the underdog and more or less acknowledge that the CamCord were the class leaders. Do you really want to give your competitors that boost? Or are they even competitors? Can’t we autoblogosphere residents all just get along?
5. Assumptions are not necessarily the “truth.” It pisses me off when TTAC posts take the “guilty until proven innocent” approach on topics like assuming that a press junket results in dishonest coverage, or the Buickman’s GMI access problems were the result of some sinister GMI conspiracy. The Buickman/GMI thing in particular pissed me off as really shitty reporting on your part, because it was very one-sided with you taking Dollinger’s (who apparently is also a NWO believer and tinfoil hat wearer) side of the story without contacting anyone at GMI for their story. Even if you hadn’t believed what they said, at least they deserved the courtesy of a chance to respond. The Wall Street Journal, for instance, adds a “messages left with x’s publicist were not returned” when they print something unflattering about someone – giving them the opportunity to comment/defend themselves.
You run a good site, Robert. There has been some excellent feedback in the comments above mine, IMO, which shows that your readers care about your site and want to make it better.
I don’t comment on this site very much anymore but I do still read it daily. This will not be the case if you continue to attack other websites like Jalopnik (Ray Wert).
I’ll goes as far as saying the article posted directly after this one flat-out sickens me.
Also, I might be imagining this, but I perceive a slight conservative bias is the writing here. I don’t want to perceive any political bias when reading a car blog.
There have been several times that I’ve come close to being frustrated with this site enough to quit reading it.
I like the industry news but I miss the car reviews.
I first discovered this site via a Jay Shoemaker review of a car I was researching. His writing was so entertaining I became an instant fan of the site. Since then I’ve enjoyed checking ttac daily. I never really knew that so much daily car news was generated – or that the auto industry was covered with such scope and passion.
I recommended the site to a car-nut friend of mine. I said they’re “going ocd” on the big 3 right now, but otherwise it’s a great site.
I like TTAC called it. Of course, I completely disagree with the convention against saying “I told you so.” The whole thing is terrible for everyone. Where did it start?
I also like the industry news. The companies are just like others, and these issues make a difference in how the products turn out.
I’ve read your site daily for about 3 years, even before the comments. The first story I read was about cities towing vehicles for profit. I liked the offhand car reviews that were fair not just flattering. I’ve become a TTAC junkie and regularly send links to others from your site.
So in my observation here is what I like and don’t like and what I’d like to see return.
More car reviews, I like the comparisons but to be fair you might need to compare three or four, not two.
If a car (like a mustang or camry) is reviewed, it should be re-reviewed at some point to see if it has improved, devolved or what. Not easy to do but to be truthful about cars you need to refresh the reviews.
As entertaining as the Death Watch series are, there really are too many to keep track of anymore. Keep the GM deathwatch because it is the first born. The others maybe should have fewer updates to them. Maybe updating DW series every week or two would be a better approach.
The Popup ads with friggin sound in the middle of the text are beyond annoying, they are just too much. Ads are a part of life, but do they have to be hyperlink hot words in the middle of the text with flippin sound? I had Mike Rowe burst into my office the other day talking about F-150s and almost spilled my coffee.
Perhaps a redirect over to another area for editorials while having car reviews on the main page would be a better approach. Car shoppers on one side, opinionated gear heads on another.
I miss the star ratings over 4 or 5 categories you used to have. Calling two cars each a “4” without specifying what they earned in different categories makes it harder to judge what they are about, or what a reviewer weighed when he drove them. We don’t need 7 different circles like CR, but 5-10 categories ranging from acceleration, handling, noise, gas mileage, shifting, seats, ergonomics, stereo, back seat hop room (only kidding), would help us get a better feel for the Truth about a Car.
Just so everybody is aware, because it seems like this may not be widely known —
TTAC still runs car reviews every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
We also do star ratings in several categories, including ride, handling, performance, interior, exterior, fit and finish, etc.
Mr. Farago,
As a relatively new member I’ll simply say I love your site. I won’t repeat compliments and critiques already noted……..Keep up the good work.
I would like an article(editorial) or two about the roll the Big 3 dealer network played in the demise of GM, Ford and Chrysler. With emphasis on their shady business practices.
Ronnie Schreiber,
I have to agree, most “normal” guys I know don’t mind looking at a half naked woman……at least occasionally. I might add, most guys I know that like “hot” cars, also like “hot” women. They kinda go hand in hand. I know they did in 1960 when I was 17 and they still do today…..for me.
I want to know if Robert Farago is actually Ira Flatow
http://www.sciencefriday.com/
Their voices sound identical…:-D..
E.S.
Simple improvement – define the anti flaming rule a little more clearly, or just drop it.
If an article is FOS I would like to say its FOS.
Have an anti swearing rule if needs be – thats easier to define.
In which case if an article is rubbish, I would like to say its rubbish.
So far as I can tell, there’s no way to find posts I’ve made in the past, either for the purpose of following up on responses or to copy some particularly compelling argument.
Good point! Of course, it might end up facilitating week-long rows, but hey, win some lose some.
RF
I really like the point-counter-point suggestion. A writer or two who are a wee bit more positive on the D3 would be nice just to keep things balanced. Phil Ressler, God love him, never seems to tire in his defence of everything domestic and our responsibility to honour our social contract. While I don’t agree with a lot of what he says, he does at least make one pause to consider a different perspective. He is a very articulate writer to boot.
I really enjoy Steve Lang’s stuff on car buying and some of the older articles on dealer experiences and such.
Please don’t try to be nicer more gentle site. That we don’t need.
Most importantly, hot cars do indeed go with hot chicks. Just try to keep their clothes on so I don’t get in trouble at work.
wow all this stuff…
its just a web site, geeze.
one that i like.
yes its a bit gloomy at times – but so is our economy now, and especailly the auto manufacturers.
.
gm, ford and the cerebus property have not paid any attention to me in like ever. i prefer really nice small cars and sports cars. There are none here, even now. I have been forced to look at europe and asia for my cars for 30 years.
If they went out of business today, my auto world would not change much.
As for this site, i pay more attention to the car stuff then the editorials, but thats just me.
Its a web site, after all. I can read what i want.
PS, as for the hot chicks and hot cars comment, i would prefer hot guys and hot cars. But thats just me.
While I’m on a roll, the search function really stinks (it’s OK, so does Autoblog’s), so I often find myself doing an Advanced Search on Google for info that I know is here but can’t find and using the domain search feature in Google. Something like that incorporated into the site might be a plus for TTAC.
I enjoyed the reporting on the relationship between Plastek and Chrysler. I learned much from the the reporting and the comments that I did not know about supplier relations, ownership of tools and dies, payment schedules, etc. The devil is in the details, and these were the details that were bedeviling Chrysler at the time (and still are).
My favorite TTAC articles are the ones that identify when a news outlet (TV, print or website) publishes a news “story” that was actually crafted by a carmaker’s PR team (ie. recent ABG articles sponsored by Mercedes Bluetec).
My least favorite are the “TTAC called it” articles where you obviously start with the premise that your earlier post was correct and publish some self affirmation. The deathwatches kind of fall into that category.
I would like to see more validating or debunking statistics. You could check sources and tell us what it really means. Like GM’s claims that 75% of people would not buy a car from a bankrupt automaker.
Is that 75% of everyone? 75% of people who will actually buy a car this year? 75% of people who might actually buy a domestic car? I figure, 80% of car buyers already don’t buy GM’s cars. Reducing that to 75% in bankrupcy sounds like an improvement.
Keep bringing us the Truth.
It’s a big deal there’s near 150 comments here, and typically 50+ on other content. Truly not Autoblog’s readership.
For those who can’t or won’t see it, let me tell you there is a clear anti domestic (especially General Motors) bias on TTAC. My take is that the site began way back when with a small slant against GM. Eventually, GM haters crowded the site with a bunch of anecdotal cockamamie stories about the troubles with their girlfriends cousins aunt’s 1992 Cadillac that needed a water pump and the dealer wouldn’t do a thing for them. Even though the car was only 12 years old and had 160,000 miles.
And let us not forget the enviro wackos that choose to hammer GM because they had the audacity to sell lots of Suburbans, Tahoes and Hummers. Why would they market these behemoths to the poor unsuspecting consumer? Please. Just go hyper mile somewhere down a long endless highway-tailgating an 18 wheeler of course!
NSFW girl photos ought to go, or at least don’t display them on your homepage and let all of us cubicle folk know with a tagline of some sort on the article title like [photo might be NSFW] which would make us aware before we click through. Seriously, when one of these appears on your site, I have to pretty much stop visiting for three days or a week (depending on content density) until it is relegated to page two or three. Thus, you lose site hits. But maybe with the crashy nature of the site servers lately, that’s not so bad for you…I dunno.
Loving the retrospective car reviews. The Beetle discussion actually has me seriously considering trying to find a restorable Bug one day! I mean, that’s gotta be a great topic, to have me thinking so irrationally.
Less bashing other sites, to pile on what others have said. Less YouTube video with no compelling article content below it. Condense bailout and deathwatch articles because they’re getting somewhat too rapid-fire.
Otherwise, not many complaints. Love what you all do.
Yet another +1 on losing “TTAC called it.” Additionally, some add-on phrases are overused, like “… Or not.” or “… Again. Still.”
The rest of my criticism is for us posters. This is turning into a place for lemmings.
Hey, my “not so smart car” comment is pithier than your “dumb car” comment.
Ronnie Schreiber :
“I wonder what the median age of the best & brightest are. Having owned and driven cars with carburettors and mechanical point ignition, when starting a car in very cold weather was an iffy proposition, when you’d carry a screwdriver in the car just to jam open the choke if you flooded the engine trying to start it, well, it’s hard for me to bash just about any modern car.”
I also would like to know the median age of the B&B. Like you, I do remember how crappy older cars were in comparison to ANY modern vehicle.
It might also be valuable for the writers to remember that many of their readers are not gear-heads. The whole “appliance” thing is really funny when you look at the amount of Camry’s and Accords on the road – to the vast majority of American drivers an “appliance” that routinely gets from A to B for years without problems and in reasonable comfort is EXACTLY what is important.
I don’t have a problem with “TTAC Called It”. The only thing I would add to those posts, though, is a link to the original article that “called it”. The proof is always nice to see. “Trust, but verify”.
Everybody has bailout fatigue. If you can’t stomach the news, turn off your computer, TV, radio, and lock your doors. We’ll call you in 12 to 18 months. Otherwisde, nan up, pu**y!
TTAC is the benchmark. Keep up the good work, gentlemen. And thank you for this opportunity to weigh in on our auto community.
I submitted an article this summer, one that possibly didn’t fit the mission of the site, however, I didn’t even get a reply. Nothing. Even a “Got it” or even a “This sucks” would have been nice.
I suppose it could have gotten caught in a SPAM filter, on my side or on yours…that does happen.
I’m going to stand up for the “TTAC Called It” articles. I strongly feel this is important in supporting the whole Deathwatch & Suicide articles to begin with. You don’t get follow up like this on major news sources outside of NPR. You could argue the title of it, but the follow-up articles themselves are quite important.
And if Fox News or CNN did do a follow up, just think of the ridiculous titles you’d get from them; Blitzer’s Blasts, Sanchez Sacked ’em, Fox News is always right: The Fuck’d & The Failed and We Told You So.
Oh, and I also miss the podcasts.
I second BlueBrat’s comment above.
In case you didnt get it from previous posts:
1) more car reviews… remember those?
2) Can we have a Deathwatch Deathwatch?
3) “TTAC Called It” – yes indeed you did, but gloating isn’t polite.
4) I dont really care what you think about writers at the Detroit News, Jalopnik, or any other blogs. I hate media stories about the media. Just do your job.
Otherwise, thanks for the fun, smart and always interesting site. Really. Or not. : )
there are plenty of sites that cheerlead the crap detroit & its competitors create. i like ttac because you’re willing to call bullshit on so much of it & let’s face it; most of it is bullshit. what i don’t like: egregious grammatical errors (a bit rich coming from a poster who eschews caps but at least i know the difference between it’s & its), excessive profanity (too much & you start looking like the daily show without the bleeps or soon-to-be ex-governor blagojevich & his potty-mouthed spouse on an fbi wiretap), & too many dumb illustrations of ss titanic to illustrate the death of gm where the exxon valdez is a more appropriate analogy …
what i do like way outweighs what i dislike, by the way.
(you may also need to find a more robust engine than wordpress – it tends to lose stuff or just fail at inconvenient times.)
Admittedly, I only read the first 12 comments or so, but here’s my 2 cents worth.
Gampers: I definitely don’t want to see the domestic auto industry in general or GM in particular fail. My brother-in-law is an engineer at Delphi, after all. My favorite posession is a 58 Chevy truck that I got at the age of 15 from grandfather when he died. That doesn’t mean that I will turn a blind eye to the poor products that GM churned out for some time destroying a lot of the good will that they had built over the years. Nor, will I give the morons running GM into the ground a pass because it’s an “American” company. Quite to the contrary, the poor performance of GM is of greater consequence to me than the poor performance of VW, Isuzu, etc. I couldn’t care less if those companies are run into the ground, but when management at GM, Ford, or even Chrysler screws the pooch as an American, it effects my pride and potentially my pocket book. Therefore, I take no joy from the missteps of the domestic automakers, but a true friend will tell you when you are screwing up and will not continue to let you destroy yourself. I consider myself f not a friend, certainly a fan of American manufacturing who wants it to succeed and excel at home and internationally. That is why I can not applaud bad descisions and pretend that everything is just fine.
In regards to this site in general. I agree that all of the “Deathwatches” get old. Why not just provide your opinions and title them accordingly. As far as the editorial policy, this site is a breath of fresh air from others where you are censured and even banned if you do not toe the party line. I first started posting on the internet many years ago at Cartalk. About 7 years ago, I had to leave because any post outside the car repair section of the site became a bash on George Bush full of unreasoned personal attacks, and any attempt to say somebody had gone to far with the invectives or to actually defend the President resulted in the post being pulled (e.g. to say that Bush had “personal relations with animals” would be acceptable to say that sounds more like Bill Clinton would be stepping over the line and get pulled). I’ve posted on other sites-that I no longer frequent-where the attacks on various Democrats were personal and distasteful to me as well. At least on TTAC, I can count on most of the posters, whether I agree with them or not, to keep the overall discussion civil and the personal attacks to a minimum.
Love the site, read it daily. TTAC more or less got me interested in cars and the industry. Some comments:
– JL and Steven Lang write the stuff that is most interesting to me. I just like Jonny’s perspective (I used to read Ruthless and followed him over to TTAC). Steven’s buying advice is priceless.
– I’ve got no use for your frequent bashing on other automotive sites because I frankly don’t read/care about any of them. In fact, I wouldn’t even know about some of them were they not bashed by name every week or two.
– Karesh’s True Delta site and pricing service is an asset that needs to be promoted more.
– I really miss Frank’s “By the Numbers”. I’d like it even more if it were resumed and then expanded to cover more makes like Mitsubishi, Mazda etc.
– I’m okay with the “TTAC Called It” section. You guys ate shit for years from critics for daring to predict the demise of Detroit and you’ve got a lot of stored up “I-told-you-so” points ready to unload.
-Ken
Hey Lumbergh…
Steven Lang = Bones at the Cartalk site of times yore.
Eric Stepans = Buzz Lightyear
I think we have a few more refugees over here, The Chat House, and the Cybersoapbox.
We also do star ratings in several categories, including ride, handling, performance, interior, exterior, fit and finish, etc.
OK, I see they are accessible by a separate window. It was not readily apparent. The older reviews had them right at the bottom and I thought that was a little easier. But with the comments now there is no space to include them directly.
Late to the comment list, so one may have said this but:
I really feel that, as far as reviews/opinions, the deck at TTAC is heavily stacked against domestic products. To set the record straight, my primary vehicle is not domestic, but some of our other family cars are. Perhaps the bashers have had bad experiences, or perhaps the vehicle in question is indeed sorely lacking. However, it seems that it is next to impossible for the negative biases not to creep, no make that pour, in. When the product sucks, like a Sebring, by all means let it fly. But it seems like non nondescript but competent domestics just aren’t given the same slack as their equivalent Japanese counterparts.
All that said, I really appreciate a place to discuss cars with people that don’t allow the comments to degrade into crap like on so many sites. What I would like it a “page 2” for topics; sometimes so many new ones are listed that active topics become difficult to find.
Congratulations with opening Pandora’s box…showing willingness to take them as well as dealing them greatly adds to TTAC’s credibility.
I don’t share criticism that TTAC is overly focussed on the plight of the US domestics. The fact that they are spinning around the drain right now proves how justified this focus was. About the negativity: again the present car crunch shows that applauding madness wouldn’t have been particularly useful either.
About ending the Tesla Deathwatch as a result of feedback: the right thing to do. For all that is wrong with this company (let’s face it: with Elon Musk) it’s the only car company with a more or less credible alternative drive train in an industry that would rather die than accept the fundamentally different businessmodel that comes with the BEV territory.
For that matter: Did anybody notice that GM has turned into corporate equivalent of a suicidebomber: if society doesn’t give in to it’s demand for money to do the dinomobiles that fit their century old businessmodel it will blow itself up and take the rest of the economy with it.
I think that an industry that stubbornly refuses to renew itself and tries to cheat the world out of a future by keeping it addicted to the nasty black sludge that is most commonly found in the most hostile and dangerous toilets of the world deserves it’s TTAC!
@Dutchchris :
December 13th, 2008 at 6:18 am
@Farago
I second your statement Dutchchris– well expressed what most visiting TTAC feel
Input:
What I miss is a user accessible site where one can see from which country TTAC is visited and from where on a map.
Many will be astonished to learn (at least I think so) that the site is internationally regarded as decent source.
Would you do this Robert?
Robert:
Please don’t change a thing!
I was just a bystander until I started reading TTAC
This is the FIRST forum I have ever got worked up enough to add my 2 cents to.
And yes Ive gone overboard a couple of times…well maybe more than that but I keep coming back for a good chuckle or a RANT!!
Yea you piss me off sometimes…But you make me laugh at least as much!
and ‘most often’ you allow me to share my thought with a very special group of readers.
thanks
Hey Steven Lang:
I got tired of two things at Cartalk that are never a problem here. The horrible lack of quality of the site itself and the political bent of the non-automotive postings (what a surprise from NPR). Go to some of the classic car sites and you will get burnt out on the Demo bashing that goes on nearly unabated. About the best I can say for them is they let the random liberal flame back. Okay, I guess there were three things; I also got tired of the same old questions in the repair sections over and over again. I remember when Transman got married and pretty much dropped off. I dropped off shortly after that. Sorry, can’t remember any of the other posters like yourself, though Bones and Buzzlightyear do sound familiar. I found this site while doing a search for info on the new Mazda6 in its first year of production and haven’t left since.