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TWO YEARS! WTF? It’s Jan 2009 already! For GM’s sake I hope Matt Lauer was mistaken.
Without even playing the video, I can tell you – it’s the “old” shape show-car Volt. Not the production tamed-down uber-Cavalier/Cobalt/Cruze.
OK AFTER watching the video, they showed the production style Volt, the old prototype Volt as well as at least two different “mules” (non-Volt cars with Volt powertrains).
They also could not get their story straight – is the car coming out at the end of 2009 as a 2010 car, or in November 2010 as a 2011 car?
As for the price – well…. we’ll see. But I’m going to guess that it’ll be way more than Prius or Insight. Which will be the major competition.
Somewhere around $40,000?
The thing that struck me as most “WTF?” was the talking head who referred to a linkage between the Volt and public support for GM. The Volt’s two years out. If we’re still bailing GM out in two years time… I don’t like to think about that.
Nothing! The line is still the same. Fortunately, as one TTAC poster indicated a few months ago, the Volt no longer looks like a grand piano fell on it.
I believe $40,000 is going to be a problem however; even with the return of $4 per gallon fuel. Another issue is that “greens” who would be inclined to buy this car and frequently tend to be urban dwellers are going to have a problem plugging it in on the street; not everyone has the convenience of a garage.
I also disagree that GM is done if the Volt doesn’t work out. That’s the problem with government loans and the attendent, regulatory, petty bureaucratic horse$hit that goes with it; everyone becomes a doubting Thomas expert. I know GM has had problems bringing new ideas and technologies to market in the recent past (25-30 years) but I’m inclined to see where this goes. If it works out, great, if not, at least they tried which seems to be more than many of its competitors are doing right now. It could also create another technological direction as well.-
What’s Wrong With This Video?
“We’re sorry, currently our video library can only be streamed within the United States.”
Oh well.
GM should spin the Volt into a separate company and limit the brand damage before it begins. GM’s previous lack of environmental credibility is a deservedly easy target.
A car that only goes 40 miles on an electric charge is not an electric car that is going to save the world. Still needs an engine that is run by fossil fuel. What price would people pay? Many nice cars out there in the $15K – $25K range that get good gas mileage and don’t have to be plugged in at night.
Never thought about the garage part, good call rpol35. Hell in Detroit they would steal the cord in the driveway.
Electric cars that are practical enough to run all day on a charge are far off into the future. Can you imagine taking the Volt on a family vacation? Where do we plug in? Gas fill ups all the way to your destination after 40 miles. How practical is that?
The infrastructure isn’t there in most urban centers. In Montreal, the entire core of the city (a million people) live in apartments and row complexes with street parking. You can’t even find a garbage can to toss your coffee cup, let alone a plug anywhere. Who would b willing to pay for the electric bill anyways assuming you found a plug in the street? This is technicolor dreaming. Plus, very few people can afford 40k (it’ll be 60k in Canada after duties and taxes, if not more) and you’ll blow 90% of the charge heating the car for the 6 months of winter the country sees. It’s a lose-lose proposition all around.
You know, the curious thing about this is that there never seems to be a test drive in ICE mode. For example Red Ink Rick didn’t drive all the way from Detroit in the Volt mule and Today seems to have taken a short ride in electric mode around the tech center.
So far, all we have seen is an electric car – not the vehicle they’ve promised. I’d go as far as wondering how far they’ve actually progressed in the design of the vehicle. I’d assume at this point that they would have sorted out the hardware and would be tweaking firmware at this point. You’d have Volts operating in both modes, but not perfectly.
I admit I could be overreacting here and everything could be going just fine. I don’t have enough information to be sure.
Their latest ads say that the Volt will “premier” in 2010. I interpret that as meaning that they will unveil the production version in late 2010 and production versions will roll off the line sometime in 2011. The use of the term “premiere” could be totally innocent, but I really think they’re hedging.
Won’t increasing the demand for electricity increase the price of electricity making petrol-engined vehicles more attractive?
And what do you do with all those batteries when they have had the last recharge?
Does this vehicle take less energy and cause less pollution to produce and run to 120k miles than a petro-powered car of similar volume?
Can I get a $40,000 check tax credit from Barney Frank if I buy one of these things?
It’s happening again, but few notice. GM is believing its own press releases instead of pressing ahead with serious development.
Let’s stipulate that the Volt appears late in 2010 as ’11 model. We’ve been hearing since Jan 2007 about its ability to go “40 miles” on all-electric power. So, if they take four years of develpment to meet that goal, it’ll be too little, too late, and the competition will again eat GM’s lunch.
The media blather makes a big deal of miles per charge, whether hybrid or full-electric, so consider how developed other cars will be by 2011.
Recent memory provides these clues:
— Mini E…being released as test vehicles NOW
with an estimated range of >100 miles/charge.
— Renault/Nissan in a JV with Project Better Place, working towards >125 mi range by end of CY 2010.
— Japan, Inc is working of a variety of plug-in and high-efficiency hybrids. No exact word on the announced plug-in Prius, but you can be it’ll go more than 40 miles on a charge. Way more. Look for a Civic to do the same.
— BYD (China) on the street soon with a battery car rated at 100km/charge (~60 miles)with later plans for a 300km car.
–Even Lotus is looking at a 40-50 mi/chg variant of one of their products. Within two years.
— Tesla (Gawd help us all!) isn’t forthcoming about their actual range, but it’s reasonable to figure 40-50 miles/charge…on the street now. (Sort of.)
In light of these cars and others, a 40 mile/chg car appearing in two years has no hope of selling in any volume to anybody, anywhere. Others will be doing it better, likely cheaper, and certainly in less time.
Too little, too late: The GM story. Again
mcs is right – when will we hear about how it runs in ICE mode? With no direct link to the wheels, the gas-electric-wheels conversion of energy had better be impressive. Having a “small” gas engine power the car will let people down.
I don’t believe this car will ever see the showroom, because GM can no longer produce anything that loses money – this vehicle certainly will lose money.
And if it does see showrooms, people will start doing the math and realize that they could buy 2 really good cars for the price of a Volt, and the Volt’s payback will be astronomically long. So GM’s response will be to lower the price (or increase sales incentives), until it becomes a money loser.
I was totally against the bailout, and for the taxpayer to keep feeding money into propositions like this is crazy.
autoemployeefornow rights:
“Can you imagine taking the Volt on a family vacation? Where do we plug in? Gas fill ups all the way to your destination after 40 miles. How practical is that?”
After 40 miles, it’s supposed to just work like a hybrid, and should get ~40mpg on the highway. So it’s just as practical to fill up as any hybrid, unless it has a really puny tank. This is the whole point of the plug-in-hybrid, that it works as an electric for short trips, but doesn’t limit you like a pure electric for longer trips.
Like others, I’ve been pondering the electricity access problem. The implementation curve has to run something like this:
1. When the cars first come on the market, only people who have garages and who work less than 20 miles from their garage can buy a Volt and make it work -as an electric vehicle. As was pointed out above, it’s about 10 -15 miles in hot or cold climates where you need heat or AC.
2. Some folks who can wave the green flag smartly or who know their office complex’s Engineering guy can get an extension cord run out where they park. People who have to park in parking garages or in street lots are still SortaOuttaLuck if they live more than 20 miles out. Eventually, someone will notice that these car increase the company’s electrical bill(assuming that people actually buy more than a few of them).
3. Parking Garages and Offices, and cities will start to offer metered electricty for sale. The question is – at what price? The only remote parallel I can give would be RV parks which charge for water and electrical hook-ups. The mark-up is quite high as the competition is low.
4a. Laws are passed requiring half of all parking meters to offer plug-in’s. Theft/tamperproof plug-in points are developed. Your Nav System identifies plug-in points and gives the cost-per-(volt? Ampere Hour?)unit price.
4b. Everybody says the heck with this and buys a Prius or a gasoline powered car
Diesel?
Hmmmm…can’t be viewed in Canada. I guess I’ll have another look at that Prius or Insight now.
Both these got to drive it well ahead of actual auto journalists.
Nothing is wrong with the video. Maybe the concept of the Volt isn’t right for you, but that doesn’t alter the fact that the project seems to be on track and progressing as planned.
Yes Virginia, the date for initial production of late 2010 is unchanged and the presumed price of $40K is holding as well. There will likely be a $7500 tax credit, bringing the price down to a more realistic $32,500 or about the same as a well-optioned Malibu.
The Volt won’t satisfy every driver, all the time, under every condition. For millions of drivers in the US who have a garage or private drive and who travel relatively short distances most of the time, this could be revolutionary.
THE VOLT IS NOT AN ELECTRIC CAR! GOD DAMNIT!
That is what is wrong with the video, they keep calling the Volt an electric car, when it is just a plug in hybrid.
If that is how they are going to define “electric car”, then the Toyota Prius is an electric car. The non US Prius has a switch on the dash that you can hit which will make it run only on electricity. It can go somewhere between 5-10 miles on electricity alone. So see, the Volt is nothing special, we have had an “electric car” on the market since 2004.