The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is joining a larger veteran’s initiative to create a new program “to increase awareness of the importance of safe driving among newly-demobilized veterans.” Of course, the press release made no mention of the budget for said program. (In fact, they’re studying what to study.) But it did make a case– somewhat– that veterans’ safety needs differ than that of the general population. “According to the Department of Transportation, motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for all Americans between the ages of eight through 34. Men constitute about 70 percent of all traffic deaths. In the past decade, both deaths and injuries from motor vehicle crashes have gone down in the United States, due to increases in seat-belt use and decreases in alcohol involvement, among other factors. Nonetheless, motor vehicle accidents remain a major concern in the military and among veterans as the greatest cause of accidental fatalities. Several studies have reported an increase in post-deployment deaths [ED: percentage auto-related?] among military personnel who served in a combat zone compared to their non-deployed counterparts, who are in the military but not deployed to a war, after both the Vietnam War and the 1991 Gulf War. Preliminary evidence also indicates this is the case with veterans from the Global War on Terror.” Citations? None. Intentions? Honorable. Boondoggle potential? Enormous.
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Several studies have reported an increase in post-deployment deaths [ED: percentage auto-related?] among military personnel who served in a combat zone compared to their non-deployed counterparts, who are in the military but not deployed to a war, after both the Vietnam War and the 1991 Gulf War. Preliminary evidence also indicates this is the case with veterans from the Global War on Terror.” Citations? None. Intentions? Honorable. Boondoggle potential? Enormous.
As a Gulf War infantry (mechinized) vet, I think the “study” is probably correct. Returning war vets tend to have a high tolerance for risk (and fat (ish) bank accounts). I’ve heard (but am uncertain) that navy Submariners have similarly high accident rates after their long, cramped missions.
However, the “study” should have controlled for accidental deaths that occur in non-deployed military units. It’s shocking the number of soldiers killed/maimed in (car and other) accidents while off duty in peacetime. I’m certain the ~5000 troop Tiger Brigade of the 2nd AD lost fewer soldiers during its 9 month Kuwait deployment than it would have “normally” lost during an average 9 month garrison at Fort Hood.
You’re right about the ‘boondoggle potential.’ There are legions of social service parasites trying to glom onto supposed ‘distressed’ vets. All I wanted to do after the war was shoot (my bolt action) rifle at a (civilian) range away from anyone military. And hoon my Protege in the Texas hill country..
Like ihatetrees, I’m also a Gulf War vet (USMC – 2nd MARDIV). I remember coming back to the States with several thousand dollars saved up. I only spent less than $100.00 the whole time I was there – there was little to spend money on where we were in the desert. Mainly junk food and near beer (and condoms – what for? Then again, let’s not go there…) from the rolling PXs on 5-ton trucks.
And yes, after we returned to the states, for a while I felt very unsettled and lived crazy and irresponsibly. It wasn’t necessarily my having fun but the fact that I had to get all of the crap out of my system. My girlfriend at the time didn’t know how to deal with me at times. I was still active duty until 1993, so for a year or so after the war, there seemed to be (I have no hard data to prove it) more DUIs, traffic accidents, and fatalities around Camp Lejeune, NC. And because I was a Motor T officer, I was constantly onto my troops to make sure they didn’t hoon in the HMMWVs and 5-tons in garrison or in the field. One Marine in my unit overturned a 5-ton and water trailer at Fort AP Hill, VA during a training exercise by speeding. Many other incidents and accidents by putting kids in medium and heavy vehicles.
Yes the boondoggle potential is high.
There are a variety of issues that could make driving in civilian life hazardous for returning GIs.
During the current Iraq occupation, many units took to driving their vehicles as fast and aggressively as possible to minimize their exposure to ambushes and IEDs. That driving style does not translate well to peacetime rush hour traffic.
Also, there’s no ‘good’ time for these things, but driving a vehicle is probably the wrong time for a veteran to manifest any post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or traumatic brain injury (TBI) issues he/she may have.
From what I’ve been reading, motorcycle accidents are a particular concern. IIRC, this applies to stateside soldiers too, and is not related to whether they served in actual combat.
One concern for the military is the very large training time/cost they have invested in these guys, who go out and are seriously injured or killed on bikes.
dastanley :
One Marine in my unit overturned a 5-ton and water trailer at Fort AP Hill, VA during a training exercise by speeding. Many other incidents and accidents by putting kids in medium and heavy vehicles.
The closest I came to getting killed in the Gulf was when an Abrams tore the bumper off a 5 ton while trying to tow it. There’s countless ways to get f***** up with military heavy equipment.
If you remember, Tiger Bde was attached to the 2nd MARDIV during the push. Semper Fi.
tparkit:
One concern for the military is the very large training time/cost they have invested in these guys, who go out and are seriously injured or killed on bikes.
I don’t think there’s a way to control for that, given the personality types attracted to the military.
If you really wanted to reduce personnel costs in the military:
– Increase pay for the mid-enlisted ranks to minimize insane turnover.
– End the brutal pay and housing discrimination directed at cost effective single soldiers – so they re-enlist. (A 90 percent married military isn’t healthy…)
– End the retarded up-or-out promotion system – there are a lot of NCO’s who should really be twenty year privates – to reduce personnel turnover. /o.t. rant
@ihatetrees,
Preach it Brother!
This may not be factual at all, but I once found that the definition of “squid” (as one who rides a motorcycle on the street in a reckless fashion) came from sailors (specifically in Pacific ports) on leave buying or renting Japanese two-stroke street bikes, and riding them like madmen. Being two-strokes, they would leave a dark, inky cloud of smoke behind them, thus “squids”…
shaker>
I always thought a squid was someone who went helmetless.
Also, here is the cnn article about military/motorcycle deaths
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/marine.motorcycles/index.html?iref=newssearch
Robstar:
Thanks for the link – a disturbing (yet not surprising) statistic…
I did my craziest riding up to the age of 30, but only had a 65HP Honda 750 – these guys are riding machines that have well over double the power.
And I’m sure that in the name of relieving stress, they ride those bikes hard
Right now, I have a Kawasaki z750s, that has around 100 wheel horsepower- I couldn’t imagine riding anything stronger. But, that’s a good thing, as my reaction times aren’t what they once were :-)
The safety courses are a great idea as (ironically) the “enemies” are your fellow Americans, driving “cages”.
Sincere gratitude goes out to all of you that put yourself in harm’s way for the U.S. of A.
My brother is a Ranger who returned from Iraq two years ago. I was with him when he took his T-Blazer on the road for the first time since getting home. He drove like an absolute nut case, and carried on a conversation like we were having tea. I was white-knuckled white he was zipping through traffic like it was a video game.
His explanation was that after 18 months of hanging out of helicopters, you just get used to going full speed without regard. I can see that.
However, I don’t think that “preaching awareness” is going to do any good.
shaker> Yeah my 2nd bike is/now a gsx-r 600. Even though it is “old” I have seen it rated at 102-103hp to the wheels. Wet weight is what…420 pounds?
You simply can’t drive a motorcycle like you can a car. Deciding to blow through a yellow or stop quick at a yellow in a car might get you hit or rear ended. In a bike it gets you killed.
NHTSA safe driving initiative is good thing.
I see a problem for soldiers in the war zone. The incidence of roll-overs is in the news regularly. Recently some of our soldiers have drowned.
I have over 1 million OTR truck miles. I drove in Iraq. I have seen many things here in America in 53 years.
The imagery of 4WD vehicles easily moving over rough terrain is illusory. These are the images we see. Those are marketing decisions. The truth is, you get a wheel off the road and you are dead. To stay safe, this is the idea soldiers should have in their mind. Are you soldiers being told the truth? Are you being trained?
There is some comparison between handling a rifle and a vehicle, but not too much. Respect, whatever you want to call that awareness you have. A vehicle and a rifle are the progeny of the engine lathe and other machine tools for different purposes. The machine shop may be the only logical, unemotional association between the two. I can tell you, machines do not have feelings. Not yet anyway.
I have seen too many examples of vehicles leaving the road, esp here in the mountains of NC. I lost some very young cousins up around Cana last year. Kids have a good excuse. They do not have the experience. The professionals have let us down if they do not see the problem and teach.
NHTSA safe driving initiative is good thing.
Do not depend too much on the bureaucrats.
Having commanded Soldiers in two tours in Iraq, I agree that there is a spike in driving incidents immediately after deployment. Most in the chain-of-command already wrap our Soldiers in risk assessment forms, surveys, and briefings. I am not sure how much else we can do. I am also not sure if having Mr. sensitive ponytail man with the beard and blood on the highway video will help this situation.
There was a rise in mototcycle accidents immediately after my first tour. It was a function of novices buying too much bike and immediately trying maneuvers beyond their skill level. Luckily no one died, but we had a broken arm and a broken leg.
Another things I was concerned about was my Soldiers making unwise auto-purchases immediately upon redeployment. My first sergeant sold cars for eight years before joining the Army. We brought everyone in the company together for about a two hour class from the first sergeant on the car buying process and all the pitfalls. Even when you provide them will all the information they need some will still do stupid things.
Right after we get back one of my younger Soldiers rolls up in a orange 2007 Charger R/T. When I asked what he paid for it and the terms of the loan, I wanted to smack him. $40,000 out the door with 10% APR. What else can you do. A week later I walk up to his ride and he had already said hello to the curb a few times with the rims. When I asked him how it happened, he said he was falling asleep at the wheel coming back from a night club.
All of the briefings in the world will not teach someone common sense.
This topic has been all over the motorcycle boards where I spend a lot of my online time.
Besides the issues already presented (i.e. soldiers with lots of cash and no incentive not to spend it and the transition from a combat environment to the civilian world) there’s one other factor that I think is pretty much insurmountable.
You can’t train people to charge machine gun nests, jump out of perfectly good airplanes, storm a beach under withering fire, or pull a fighter plane into a blackout-inducing turn to evade an oncoming missile without inculcating a strong sense of invulnerability and an addiction to adrenaline.
And if you were able to do that, you would have a military force that couldn’t fight its way out of a wet paper bag.
NHTSA doesn’t need to be involved in this. Vehicular safety is already part of the debriefing process active duty personnel receive when they return from deployment. Mandatory classroom instruction, vehicle safety inspections, etc. Military commanders are very aware of the safety problem that exists, and none of them wants to be the ones to call a soldier’s family to tell them their son or daughter crashed and died on the way home to see them after spending a year and a half successfully dodging bullets and IED’s.
ihatetrees:
Yes! 1st Tiger Brigade was attached to 2ndMARDIV! I was in Comm Co., HQBN, 2nd MARDIV. Our Motor Transport Platoon painted many of Tiger Brigades vehicles and equipment the desert brown from the camo green (CARC paint – poisonous stuff that was supposed to be resistant to NBC warfare). In exchange, they gave us B-rats in the aluminum containers rather than dry, cold MREs. When I hurt my back (dumb 1st LT I was), one of Tiger Brigade’s medics gave me some meds. He also helped our Navy Corpsmen with some things. Tiger Brigade was awesome!
I really don’t fit in with the military trained soldiers. My gratitude to the soldiers who show the rest of us civilians what it is like to have character.
There are half-assed ideas in the world. I tried to point out one of em that is particularly bothersome– that vehicles and other machines are not always true to what is advertised. They can go badly off track and out of control. The lawyers love that stuff.
There is another stupid idea that bugs me. If you think to be a man you have to be “on your own, independent! standing tall! ” These stupid hollywood ideas make my blood boil. Just to let you know– you are not on your own if you don’t want to be. It might not be “manly” or macho to say so. You are not alone. And don’t have to be. Sounds gay, I know. It ain’t.