Car and Driver scoops the inside poop on the latest über-Golf headed to The Land of the Free. According the Csere-free buff book, the Golf R will offer the GTI’s four cylinder engine tuned to “an impressive” 270 hp with all wheel-drive to tame all those ponies. The R’s lighter, cheaper 2.0-liter turbo four may help the new top spec Golf sell more prolifically than the last top shelf Golf, which featured a heavier and more expensive 3.2-liter six, clocking in at $32,990 (msrp). Well, it couldn’t do any worse; you can still buy new ’07s. Car and Driver reckons VW will call the new car an R20 Turbo. As always, we reckon it all comes down to price/performance. The GTI is a stunner. The R20T would have to offer significantly better thrust and handling for a reasonable premium to make it. What are the odds? Meanwhile, if you haven’t driven the original R32, you should. Oh, yes.
2D, 4C w/T, AWD.
Nice!
$33k for a compact VW? Thanks, but no thanks.
A few questions here. How much less expensive than the R32 would the R20 Turbo be? Also, how much heavier than the standard FWD GTI? Would the performance gains of the R20 be enough to have me trade in my MkV GTI or should I go ahead and chip mine to within 15 hp of the R20 and count on its lower weight to make up the performance difference?
Must…find…R20…specs…
Do you get 270 HP on California’s 91 octane gasoline? Can it run E85, and, if so, how much power can you get out of the engine; perhaps this could be a way of finally getting people to actually want to put E85 in their tank.
Friends don’t let friends buy Volkswagens. Not unless they are willing to pick up and drop off their friends at the dealer regularly. And can offer unconditional emotional support, which is rather like having a friend date a stripper. Really, you can only listen to so much bitching.
For reference —
This is in essence the same engine and drivetrain in the Audi S3 in Europe. This is a good thing, and no doubt a better option than the 3.2 V6 in the R32 right now. While it’s powerful and very smooth, most feel it’s not worth the significant cost increase over the regular GTI.
On the other hand, there is no question in my mind that the 2.0T carrying over to the Mk6 GTI is a mistake (approximately 200/200). The engine really ought to be the same that’s in the Audi A4, with 211 hp and 258 lb-ft of torque.
The trouble is that in North America and in Europe, VW gets creamed on the horsepower front by C-segment competitors for hot hatches. Mazda, Renault, and Opel all have significantly more horsepower in their (front wheel drive) cars. Although this new R20 would put VW in the same power league as cars like those – or even ahead – this will be priced *above* the GTI. Those are priced the same as the GTI.
I think the GTI is still the best balanced of the bunch, but for stats-intensive shoppers, the GTI is taking a hit.
Based on my experience with the Mk5 GTI, while I love how the car drives (looks are pretty bland in my opinion), I wouldn’t own it out of warranty. Has been trouble since literally week 1.
Hmm. As a former owner of the original R32, I’m wondering how a turbo 2.0 can be as fun as that VR6. Part of what made the original such a fun all-around car was the power and torque available at RPMs well below the level required for its turbocharged competitors to get up a head of steam.
Its problem was the suspension, but it was fixable. With some work, you could get the car set up with fairly neutral handling, send more power to the back, and stop any unnecessary roll and dive. With better pads and brake fluid, it could also stand up to track abuse, and turn in respectable times.
Best part? The fit and finish and materials of the interior were really nice. A little more austere and minimal than Audis–less obvious luxury, more simple, quality design–but far more sophistication than say the often unfairly compared to STIs, Evos, etc., and, the other Golfs.
Also, 270 hp for a 2010 R-thirtywhatever isn’t impressive, since the original 3.2 was conservatively rated at 240, and could be fairly easily tuned to achieve in excess of 260 hp. But, I imagine this new iteration will get better fuel mileage, and that’s a plus.
I’d seriously consider a new GTI if only they weren’t FWD. FWD is a total deal-killer for me.
For real-world power figures, take a look at RRI’s dyno graphs.
Specifically, the R32 tested out at 224 hp and 223 lbs-ft of torque.
http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=631
The 2.0T used in the S3 and TT-S (and soon in the Golf R) tests out at 261 hp and 265 lbs-ft of torque.
http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=735
You can compare the charts on the same site as well.
Ferrygeist:
I’d seriously consider a new GTI if only they weren’t FWD. FWD is a total deal-killer for me.
Can’t say I agree. To each his own though.
Lovely car. Unfortunately, I still have the bad memories from my 2000 GTI GLX. Justin’s statement that his Mk5 has been trouble since week 1 doesn’t give me any confidence that VW has improved reliability enough.
Too bad, because I really like GTIs.
Jared :
Justin’s statement that his Mk5 has been trouble since week 1 doesn’t give me any confidence that VW has improved reliability enough.
Oh, it hasn’t been that bad. Just three Check Engine light incidents, a cracked oil pan, and a cracked radiator housing. Besides that, and the electric windows dying, and one of the remote key fobs dying, and the same taillight going out 3 times in 3 years, it’s been fine.
Well there was the flat tire while I was 250 miles from home and the donut had a max range and top speed of about 50 mph. But that’s hardly VW’s fault. I’d be complaining worse if the car came with runflats.
Any news on a new GLI, Justin? Any info would be much appreciated!
@Justin,
Your brief history just planted me further in the STi camp.
Your story is one that belongs to the 1974 Alfa I had, but no other vehicle since the death of British Leyland should have that history. Of course my pal’s 540i is on its third air compressor, second steering column, second sunroof and second or third set of vapor barriers (but, really, who’s counting)…at less than 24k miles.
My GTI has thrown a CEL once (O2 sensor) and the AC compressor went out. Otherwise, it has been in for a headlight clip recall (wtf?) and a crankcase breather hose recall. It is 2 years old w/ 34k miles.
I love my car, though. I’m even driving it 5000 miles roundtrip to Glacier National Park this summer. Wish me luck! It really has been an exceptional DD, though. It does everything so well.
Jetta R20T Sportwagen w/ Quattro would put me back into another VW, though. At the moment, I’ll likely end up with something more pedestrian and reliable.
PanzerJaeger :
Any news on a new GLI, Justin? Any info would be much appreciated!
Can’t say I have too much useful information. The rumor mill thus far is that like right now, the GLI will be the Jetta version of the regular GTI. So, same engine with same 207 horsepower and 211 ft lbs of torque.
I would be very surprised to see the car described in the original blog, nicknamed the R20, as a Jetta sedan on sale in America.
Thanks so much Justin.
Im seriously considering a GLI, but I’d hate to get one only to have a more powerful engine offered just a year later!
@Justin,
I’ve got a 2008 MKV GTI with 6500 miles and it’s been good so far.
I know a couple other owners with ’06 and ’07 models and theirs seem to be pretty good as well.
I’ve owned a 2000 Golf 1.8T and a 2000 Jetta 2.0 – so I know what owning a bad VW is like.
The new CCTA motor makes 212HP and 224lb/ft of torque according to APR’s dyno tests:
http://www.goapr.com/images/20tsi_dyno/graph-ccta-vs-tuned.gif
I do agree with you – the new CCTA motor needs the variable valve lift of the Audi system. That would make its numbers more competitive.
-ted
Ok, let me say this: The Golf is Europe’s best selling car. Personaly, I don’t know why, because it’s way overpriced (even here). Still it sells. The point is that every car mag agrees that the Golf is the best car in it’s segment.
I’ve recently read a comparison of the Golf with the Opel Astra, the Fiat Bravo, the Renault Megane, the Kia Cee’d, the Toyota Auris and the Seat Leon. The Golf won by a mile, but it was also €30,000 compared to the €20,000 of all the competitors.
Now imagine what kind of cars you can get in the US for €30,000…
I drove the R32, but could not see the price. At that level of cash, fun to drive was not enough. It better perform. There are lots of nice drivers in the 30’s, and they bring more to the table. Also, the sport seats were too tight. I wouldn’t have liked them when I was 21, and I couldn’t have afforded that much car then.
I don’t really get this segment. If I wanted a tricked out Golf, suba, or mitsubishi, I would sort of like to pick my own upgrades. At this price, couldn’t you do exactly that?
I’ve got a 08 GTI with 6K miles on it and have had no problems with it so far other than a large number of squeaks and rattles.(my pet theory on that is VW didn’t consider the effect of the tighter suspension over the base Golf/Rabbit). Before this I had a 03 Passat that had a few problems but nothing extraordinary.
I love the GTI. It has a combination of practicality and fun that can’t be beat. It gets decent gas mileage when I don’t drive like a fiend, and I can fit my three kids plus wife in it. Granted the kids are small and I wouldn’t want to make a cross country trip with the whole crew. But seriously, what other cars out there have this blend of refinement, performance and practicality as a daily driver? The S3 would fit the bill but is not available in the US and would cost significantly more.
The only things I don’t like about the car is that it is FWD and it could use more power. Both of those would be addressed by the R20. Plus if this thing will have 270HP (any word on TQ?) out of the box imagine what it will do chipped and modded. Needless to say if there is only a “reasonable premium” this will be at the top of my wish list when my current lease is up.
Arminius,
I have an 08 GTI with the same problem and here is my thoery: German engineers just don’t understand how bad american roads are. I had a ’98 Passat than ran and looked great right up to the day I traded it in at 125,000 miles. But, my God did it go through front suspension parts like they were going out of style.
VW engineers and their need to understand bad roads reminds me of the the old story about Honda of America executives always sending two or three 6’2″ 250lbs staffers to pick up Japanese executives and engineers at the airport to try and prove to them how large the average american is….hence the new accord.
Speaking of VW, the only reason I bought a new one was that long after the warranty had expired, my dealer and VW were more than happy to replace my A arms, at no cost to me. So let me be the one to say three cheers for the VW service department.
The only way I’d get one is if they lop 500 lbs off its portly ass and lop 5K off the sticker. And is thing DSG-only too? Who the hell is in charge at VW?!
Hell yeah fellas! APR already has stage1 ecu ugrades! can you believe 321 tq and 322 hp for a mere $599. That should equate to a pretty quick v-dub….
http://goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tfsi_trans_265hp.html