So, Best and Brightest, what’s the best car an enthusiast can buy—NEW—for under $30k? All in (discounts count). I’m asking because I just hooked-up (in the non-sexual sense) with a new[ish] website called Bestcovery.com. They’ve offering major linkage in exchange for Automotive “best” lists. So I wrote a “Best Porsche” list slamming the Cayenne to see if they were made of the write stuff. Yup. So, after that, I offered your services. Here’s my evil plan: I ask you, The Best and Brightest, to name the best fill-in-the-blank. At some point, I put up a poll of your most convincing nominations (chosen by me). You vote for the best whatever, I write it up and submit it to Bestcovery. What’s in for you? C’mon you love this stuff. And I’m looking into providing contributors with goods and services to test. So, let’s get stuck in, again, shall we? If you had 30Gs to spend on a new car, and you wanted to enjoy driving that car, what would it be? [NB: TTAC has no personal or commercial interest in any of the products or services presented for your consideration. And, yes, I deleted all the comments to the previous versions of this post.]
Nissan 370Z. Assuming that dealers are willing to cooperate, you might be able to just make it under $30K.
I know its pricey for what it is, but a MINI (Hey, I rememberd the CAPS) John Cooper Works is a fine piece of driving machinery… but if it were my money, it’s a dead simple choice, a Mazda Miata is a true driver’s car for under 30K…
09 Acura TSX without the Technology Package. Top rated crash/safety scores, and it’s got everything except NAV, and SuperSound. Got Paddle-Shift ?
Mazda RX-8 if you’re willing to deal with the rotary. Mazda MX-5 if not.
Mazda Miata with the retractable hard top and super sticky tires and Alcantara seats! You can get a seat upholstered for super cheap at any aftermarket place for a couple hundred bucks. It’s great because you don’t pay for crap you don’t need like Bluetooth, fancy audio (wind rushing and engine buzzing is all the aural satisfaction you need), a second row of seats. Plus it looks good without having to have a high belt-line ala MKS/CLS/S/E/Charger so you have a great sight line.
Sure, it’s a tad heavier, but it’s more rigid, as well. This is truly a “Driver’s Car” and not a “School-Duty” car or “Utility” car. It’s got a pure purpose that’s remain intact for over two decades!!:D
Hmmm it’s a tough choice but for all around best driving i’d have to give it to an s2000 or a G8… while the G8 might not be as dynamic as some more light weight and sprightly opponents, it has oodles of raw power and manages to handle it pretty well, all wrapped up in an all around great looking and feeling package. now if only it could be found in a 6spd.
Subaru WRX 2009 starts at 27k, just under, and one hell of a sling shot in the 0-60 sprint. Freeway acceleration isn’t as good as more expensive V8 powered sports cars, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. It also offers decent mileage and is an ideal transport to the slopes in the winter time.
S2000. Drop top, excellent handling, high RPM, great chassis, Honda reliability, fun and comfortable.
Some lots still have 08’s (or even 07’s!) and can be had for 27-29K Out The Door.
As mentioned previously. the Mazda MX-5 and the MINI Cooper S topped my list for exactly these criteria. I bought the MINI because of the back seat (stop laughing, it does fit a child seat). Anyone who says that the MINI isn’t a driver’s car hasn’t driven one in anger. It’s able to hold massive corner speed, has great steering feel and pretty decent torque.
How could you go wrong with a Subaru Legacy GT? It’s reliable, fun to drive, and with it’s subdued to the point of being unnoticeable styling, the police may not even pay much attention to you having fun with the car. Ideally, it would be equipped with a manual transmission to make driving a bit more involved and the navigation system for those times when you take a drive for no good reason and want to find your way home.
If you lived in a place where it seldom rained or snowed, didn’t care about reliability, and suffered from a bit of madness, the Pontiac G8 GT might be tempting.
Pontiac G8 GT… nuff said!!!
In the age of the discount, this field is a lot more competitive than it used to be.
-Mustang convertible
-Mazda MX-5
-VW GTI
-Nissan Z
-Solstice/Sky
-G8
IF you go used though… soooooooooo many more options. A lot of good stuff is priced around 35k and once you let someone else take that hit of year 1 depreciation, you literally triple your options. Suddenly Bimmers are in play!
GTi. Nuffer said.
An MX-5. Buy the PRHT, ditch the six-speed (all it adds is one more gear to miss, a bit of notchiness, and not one ounce of performance), spec the AC if you really want it, and nothing else. Get it on the base 16″ wheels, if possible. Come to think of it, you can just spec it without the PRHT and leave the hardtop on.
Oh, are we supposed to use up the whole 30k? Give me a turbo kit, too.
And if I’m answering the question in the page title (“What’s the Best Non-Synthetic Oil”), the answer is peanut.
there are 05 / 06 lotus elises on craigslist often for $25k now with 20k or so miles.
Interesting concept for a site, but awful name. Almost hurts to say it.
Count me in for the RX-8, Miata, and G8GT–depending on how much interior space is needed.
Miata
RX-8
2009 WRX, the one that obsoleted the STI
Mazdaspeed 3
GTI
G8 GT
ostensibly the Genesis Coupe
Mustang GT
370Z (good luck getting one under $30k)
Lancer Ralliart (provided you get lighter wheels and better tires)
Miata
RX-8
Can you get a S2000 under 30k new?
Bunter
key: driver’s car –
like others have said:
370 z
s2000
vw r32 (with discounts)
sti
evo
A3
128i
miata
rx8
I have seen evo MR’s advertised around here for $27k’ish.
GTI
Mazda 3
Mustang GT
Miata
Mini
Element (I own one sorry)
Turbo Cobalt on raw speed and cornering ability.
RX8 R3 on driving precision and feel.
Neither are that far off the other on the other’s strengths. Both blow the competition out of the water otherwise. The Miata voters should try out an RX8 sometime, it’s a hardtop, four-seat Miata with a peakier engine – I say this as a Miata owner. The new Evo may be inexpensive, but only because it’s cheap.
1. Miata
2. Mini
3. Rx-8
4. Mustang GT
5. Subaru WRX
6. Nissan 370z
7. Lancer Ralliart
8. Mazdaspeed 3
9. Pontiac G8
10. VW GTI
Others: Civic SI, A3, Genesis coupe, S2000 if possible, Likely a Challenger when Chrysler is through throwing discounts on the hood
MX-5 Miata
The 370 is fat (you might as well get a pre-owned G35 sedan with a better warranty and better dealers). It is also $30,625 with destination and handling (althoug it squeaks under $30K without that).
The RX-8 blows up, and the engine isn’t fun enough to justify it compared to the MX-5.
The S2000 does not sell for under $30K new, it starts at $34,995. We are talking sticker, not transaction.
The Mustang might be the right answer if one needs a back seat under $30K, but a driver’s car doesn not need a back seat.
The FWD, or FWD based hatchbacks are good cars to buy for your non car obsessed significant other if he or she complains about about needing something practical. They are not driver’s cars, they are driver’s significant other placating cars.
The Miata is RWD with a manual transmission and double wishbone SLA suspension all around.
There is probably no more popular club racing car in the country than the Miata, yet it is still a very usable street car.
The Miata is having its 20th anniversary this year.
The Miata is very configurable. You want a 5-speed? You want a 6-speed? What other car gives you that choice with the same engine. Also, soft top? Hardtop? Stripped club racer? Loaded with heated seats?
Since autocross is the best indicator of driving performance the answer is easy, Mazda MX5 or MINI Cooper S.
GTI, GTI, GTI
Without bloated options, it is a steal……
My first thought Civic SI. Hands down best bang for the buck, fun to drive and it’s rock solid Honda reliable unlike offerings from Volkswagen, GM, Ford, or even Mazda to some extent.
Then reading the other comments…S2000 if it can be had for under $30k. Really? Less practical than the SI, but slightly more fun.
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned the 128i yet. Sure, it’s not as good as its big brother, but if we’re following the $30k rule and you really, really, REALLY want the teutonic I6…
Other than that possibility, I’d pretty much go with the group consensus so far: Mini, Miata, RX8, maybe a Z or WRX.
Mustang GT
G8 GT
370Z (if you can find one under $30k)
Honorable mention to the Cobalt SS. Yes, it is a Cobalt, but apparently it’s a track monster that will outrun almost every other car under $30k
I like most of the cars on this list, but I have to second the Civic Si. Although I’m biased (I own an 06 Si), it really is a great car. It can be had, even loaded up with nav, for waaaay under 30k, it’s got a fantastic engine that just loves to rev up to 8k, and second in FWD handling to only the Mini Cooper. Toss in a great interior with comfortable, supportive seats, and top it off with Honda reliability, and you’ve got my choice.
no_slushbox:
RF said “what’s the best car an enthusiast can buy—NEW—for under $30k? All in (discounts count).”
That sounds like transaction price to me.
The old topic is still up on top of the browser.
I’d likely buy a GTI, WRX, speed3. Really any hot-hatch will do.
FWD: Civic Si (closely behind the MS3, Cobalt SS, Mini S)
RWD: Miata (Miata just owns this over all other contenders in this price range)
AWD: WRX (closely behind Lancer Ralliart)
I would’ve said 350Z, but now that it has a face that could kill its own mother, the 370Z is out. If I vomit every morning looking at it in the driveway, I can’t enjoy driving it.
I’m gonna have to say Mustang GT (although Camaro might replace this answer if it ever goes on sale), with the Mini Cooper a runner up.
If you could only have one it would be a tough choice between a GTI or a MazdaSpeed 3. Fun to drive, with hatchback versatility.
However, if you could have a driver’s toy it would be the Miata. I am convinced that if you lend people a Miata for a day they would all become “enthusiasts”, ditch the automatic transmissions, and see that less really is more!
Infiniti G37S Sedan (that’s the sport trim with the 6 speed manual) is at around $29k “invoice minus incentives” currently.
All of the other good choices have already been mentioned.
When I had to make this decision in real life a few years ago, my money voted RX-8. (Although move the value up to $40K in Canada.)
no_slushbox: “The FWD, or FWD based hatchbacks are good cars to buy for your non car obsessed significant other if he or she complains about about needing something practical. They are not driver’s cars, they are driver’s significant other placating cars.” That’s actually funny, and a lot true. My street RX8 and track RX7 are huddled in the garage for the winter with her MazdaSpeed Protege (in Spicy Orange, of course.) I must admit, for a FWD car, the thing is a hoot…
All these answers are making me really wish I fit in a MX-5/Miata. I’ve always wanted one but at 6’4″ I end up eye level with the sunvisors. C’mon Mazda, this is America, people are tall and getting taller!
I’ve always admired how Porsche can build sportscars with plenty of headroom compared to US and Japanese manufacturers. I’m anxiously awaiting the Genesis coupe to see if I fit in that.
4 seats:
new RX-8
used (add in a 10% deferred maintenance reserve): ’84-’89 911 or even a good 964
2 seats: used Boxster
I’ll stick with the MINI Cooper S (actually have one). It can be very nicely optioned and stay under $30k.
I like the Miata, really I do. But I sit tall and don’t fit in it.
Demetri :
February 12th, 2009 at 1:39 am
Mazda RX-8 if you’re willing to deal with the rotary. Mazda MX-5 if not.
My sentiments exactly
From a strictly purist perspective, the Mazda MX-5 is hard to beat. This car was designed from the ground-up to be a sports car, while many of the hot hatches are (often quite effectively) tarted-up “economy” cars that began as mild-mannered FWD “sensible” transportation.
The MX-5 is definitely not the fastest among this bunch, and males with “inadequacies” need not apply, but it’s about the most fun one can have behind the wheel. This car does not need to be “fast” in the top-speed sense because one can have an absolute blast driving and flogging it without even breaking any laws (at least not blatantly). It’s lightweight, has a free-revving engine, and features a short-throw shifter + terrific clutch feel. The “faster” sports cars NEED to be driven well above the legal limits in order to provide the same thrills (IMO). Finally, the MX-5 even has some built-in “dangerousness” because it handles so confidently that the driver can easily be lulled into pushing too hard (cue the Seeds…) and end up oversteering his/her way into the nearest ditch or tree.
guyincognito: The RX8 dominates B-Stock, which is a higher class than the CS/DS/GS that the Mini and Miata take part in.
From reading the submissions, it’s pretty clear to me that the Miata wins the day. The RX-8 is a great driver’s car because it has great dynamics and a cool-as-hell rotary. I like the ’09 WRX but I’m kind of a fanboy when it comes to Subarus.
I’d be real interested to see what this list would look like if the cap was $20,000 for a brand-new car.
Hold on, nobody said they had to be street legal.
Let me change my answer.
Tony Kart Racer EVR with a Vortex RVX KZ2 engine.
40 hp, 200 lbs + driver, corners at well over 2g. 6-speed sequential gearbox, 125cc, 14kRPM two-stroke.
It’ll run about $10000 + around $250 per hour of operation.
I guarantee this will be better than any car you buy.
It’s interesting how widely “fun to drive” is defined here. Everybody’s definition is valid, but they are all different. My personal definition is “a new car that could be run around a racetrack”.
The purest sporting proposition available, for that purpose, under $30K is the Mazda RX-8. The current MX-5 is almost the same car underneath; why not take the characterful engine and additional power? It will be faster than an MX-5 on all road courses and many autocross courses. (The National B v C Stock debate is too big to get into here.)
Second place: Mustang GT. More power, less finesse.
I’m taking a Fusion AWD V6 to VIR in a few weeks to see how that car does under pressure; it would be another car I’d suggest if you need four doors.
To keep this from being the “Ford/affiliates show”, I’d also suggest a Cobalt SS Turbo. The Civic Si is a nice car but it’s best kept off-track, so if you never expect to see a green flag, it’s a better choice than a ‘Balt SS.
Cobalt SS. I have no shortage of other places to spend and enjoy the thousands saved.
I suspect these,but having never actually driven any of these cars, just going buy others’ opinions
Cobalt SS
Civic Si
MINI
MX-5
Mazdaspeed 3
RX-8
GTI
My definition of a driver’s car says it has three pedals, so, sorry, no G8 GT, though I do find it intriguing.
Like jaje, I will sort my list by the drive wheels:
FWD: Masdaspeed3 (Honorable Mention to GTI)
RWD: Miata (Honorable Mention to RX8)
AWD: 2009 WRX
I bought my new 2006 S2000 off the lot for just under $30k, but that was obviously three years ago. I’m not sure if the current market helps or hinders price on them, but if we’re willing to admit the S2000, then to me, it’s no contest: it is the most uncompromised, pure driver’s car under (at?) $30k, and I’ve driven almost every other car mentioned here–in reasonable anger.
It was down to the MX-5 (with sport/Bilstein package) and the S2000, and given that high-strung 911s are my benchmark for fun, the S2000 was the closest to that in terms of pure, unadulterated, involving driving, and it looks good, and is convertible.
For southern CA drivers, if you know roads like Cerro Noroeste, few drives I’ve ever done were as blissful as a late fall night under a full moon with the top down in the S2000, not a single other car seen in an hour, driving that car up CN to within an inch of its life–and probably mine.
As much as I love the MX-5, the fact that it’s a little bit easier to drive actually makes it a little less involving for me. That the Honda’s motor doesn’t really go to work until above 6k makes it all that much more interesting.
Mazda is a company I love. I’m waiting for the chance to buy one of their cars. They’re tremendous in their support for enthusiasts. I’m taking advice from here and going to check out an MX-8 soon, as we need a “wife placating” four-seater that’s also “husband placating!”
Year-old G37.
I’ll take a certified, used 3-Series.
cdotson:
“RF said ‘what’s the best car an enthusiast can buy—NEW—for under $30k? All in (discounts count).\'”
Ok, I kind of swept over that, but I think that means known manufacturer rebates and incentives. Not, “yeah, there are a lot of ____ sitting on the lots, I bet you could knock down the dealer to _____” speculation.
That said, the base, stripped (no A/C), Pontiac Solstice GXP does come in at $29,605 ($29,485 + $620 destination – $500 current official offers).
That is the best drivers car choice if the driver can live without A/C (or a nice interior, or a trunk, or a soft top that operates well).
The Miata destroys the base Solstice, but the turbo ecotec in a solid, double-wishbone RWD platform is something amazing, even with the truck transmission.
To my knowledge Honda is not offering any official $5K cash on the hood for the S2000, so it does not qualify.
What if you’re 6’4″ and live in Canada?
What if you’re 6′4″ and live in Canada?
VW GTI. Under 30k in the United States. I think it’s around 34k in Canada.
Let’s get real here. If you want the best new driver’s car under $30K, there is only one answer: Mazda RX-8. Just for giggles, I priced out the top of the line R3 at Edmunds. According to them, people in my area are paying $30,263 for the car and Mazda is offering a $500 rebate which brings the total cost a shade under $30k. So here is the case for the RX-8 R3:
1) There have been several articles written here about how well this car drives as in one of the best handling cars, price no object.
2) For a car of its type, it is very flexible because there is a useable back seat.
3) For the aforementioned price tag, the car comes loaded. The only significant option is satellite radio.
Nothing else under $30k compares unless your idea of driving is racing from one stoplight to the next one.
Miata
RX-8
Solstice GXP
Obviously the S2000 if it qualifies
128i is the one I’d actually buy (even nutjob car enthusiasts need to accomodate girlfriends and dogs from time to time)
I think of this two ways. First, what’s the best pure driver’s car for under $30k? Second, as asked later in the paragraph, if I were going to buy a car for under $30k and it needed to be a good driver’s car, what would it be? Those are different questions for me, because I have two kids and play bass in a rock band, so I need to be able to haul people and stuff while I haul @ss.
I would therefore buy a Mazdaspeed 3. And I might when the 2010 model comes out.
If it’s purely a driving enjoyment question, probabaly an MX-5 Miata.
The best drivers car is, without a shadow of a doubt, the Cobalt SS.
Great power, Great handling…that is all a driver needs.
My vote is my old white GTI 4-door or my new grey 128i (tho you would need a nice dealer, the base price is now $30,225 with dest.)
1. 128i
2. GTI
3. Mazdaspeed3
4. 370Z (base $30,625)
5. RX8
6. WRX
7. Cobalt SS
8. Mini Cooper S
9. S2000
10. Miata
1. Miata
2. S2000
3. WRX
4. ’67 Pontiac Catalina Cpe (I’m getting ready to restore, was my Dads) has a factory reverb radio.
Im gonna say, best new drivers car, under $30K:
–> 2008 Mustang GT Bullit (discounted of course)… and if no Bullits, then regular GT.
Why?
–> None of the other cars mentioned so far have so much untapped potential on the table. It is a limitless aftermarket.
–> Secondly, maintenance is less of a worry when you have so many parts to choose from when something craps out.
**I would be on pins and needles owning an RX-8 outside of warranty
–> Lastly, with headers and full exhaust, the aural pleasure alone makes this a winner
If practicality is needed with 4 doors, the A3. Super fun to drive, pass on the DSG and get the stick if you can. You can get leather and the sport package (S-line) for under 30k AND you get (or should get) a good dealer experience since it’s Audi.
Awesome interior included.
Respectfully,
I wish there were better choices in this price range…
Lets get to the single point of the question. Best DRIVERS car under 30. This takes no accounting for reliability, practicality, etc.
I define a drivers car as one that is the most engaging with the greatest feedback and feel. This means responsive, balanced, and crisp in every way. A good engine is key, but power is back seat to the overall package. I realize for some, power trumps steering feel or chassis balance, but not in my book.
So best new drivers cars with an MSRP under 30:
Miata
370z (although I think it just got raised above 30k)
RX-8
GTI
Now if we are talking discounted prices, I would include:
Evo X (base)
S2000 (however at 34k, under 30 seems unlikely)
WRX, although fun, still lacks steering feel and engagement. Even more true with the legacy. Sadly, no American car I have experience has this elusive level of driver engagement either.
Assuming you need the car to be a daily car:
Gotta go with the Miata or RX-8. The best would be an RX-8 without a rotary since that POS is too thirsty for what you get… but since such a car is not made, I’d probably go Miata.
The Miata quickly separates out people who care about cars and people who think they care about cars but really care about how inadequate they are.
The rest of the usual suspects: Rex, Ralliart, MS3 can apply.
If this is a spare car:
Used Elise.
128i owners: could you expand a little on your likes/dislikes of the car?
I recall that TTAC panned it with frightening intensity, to such a level that I found it hard to believe the car could be so objectionable. Obviously, you disagree. Thoughts?
jkross22: The A3 keeps nagging at me. It fulfills a lot of what we’re looking for, although I’d have to have the AWD version. Did you compare the 2.0T to the 3.2? I’m guessing the 3.2 is more or less a four door R32…dunno though.
1. loaded MX-5 for pure driving pleasure
2. base 370Z trade a bit of pleasure for power
3. base TSX trade pleasure and power for practicality and reliability
4. WRX good all around and especially in northern climates
5. RX8 if you don’t mind the reliability risk
6. Mustang if you want a “classic” muscle car
7. Mini if you want it to be fashionable too
8. Civic SI if you don’t mind paying extra for reliability
9. GTI if you want it, nobody can convince you otherwise
10. IS250 if you want some zen when not hooning
Caterham Classic. For a measly $29,580.00, assuming you already have an engine and transmission lying around. A bit of a stretch perhaps, but by far the best drivers car in the world for under or around 30g.
It’s like a Miata with all the extra weight taken out, on steroids, with a blistering power/weight ratio.
Faster in the straights, or in the curves, than any other car in that price range. Telepathic handling, and more smiles per mile than you ever thought possible.
I wanted to like the RX-8. It’s got fabulous handling, to be sure. Then a friend considering one asked me to do some research on its reliability. The words “catastrophic engine failure” appear altogether too often for my comfort.
This is entirely out of character for me, but for under-$30K hoonery, a Mustang GT coupe has something to recommend it — it’s kind of the inverse of the RX-8.
Personally, I’d look closely at a Civic Si. The MX-5 is tempting; I dearly wish there were a MX-5 coupe, a la MGB GT, because I loathe convertibles.
I’m never EVER getting rid of my 1999 Miata, which I bought for $10k a few years ago. So, I’ll take 2 more.
Ferrygeist :
When I bought my ’06 A3, I also test-drove the 3.2. At the time, only the 3.2 was available with quattro, but the 2.0T was so much more fun to drive (and the 3.2 was so expensive), that I definitely went with a 2.0T. Besides, the quattro in the A3 is the on-slip system like the TT, not the system out of the A4.
This is a no brainer
RX-8
a “drivers car” must be RWD, light weight, laser sharp steering and, most importantly – not feel like you’re driving a car, but rather, like you’re wearing a second skin that telepathically reacts to your commands.
No Audi, Mustang, or FWD econobox on steroids can do this. No “luxury” or “near luxury” car can do this under $30,000 (and, most importantly, they’re all overweight).
The RX-8 may not be the fastest in a straight line, but it is absolutely 100% the best Driver’s Car under $30,000.
Cretinx, the MX-5 doesn’t meet your criteria?
The answer to this question has not changed in twenty years. The Mazda Miata.
kgurnsey:
“Faster in the straights, or in the curves, than any other car in that price range. Telepathic handling, and more smiles per mile than you ever thought possible.”
Around Mosport or Mid-O, a Mustang GT will beat a Caterham Classic.
I know this because I’ve owned a Zetec-engined Seven clone. After 100mph they have nothing and aerodynamically efficient cars with a little motor just steam by.
128i owners: could you expand a little on your likes/dislikes of the car?
I recall that TTAC panned it with frightening intensity, to such a level that I found it hard to believe the car could be so objectionable. Obviously, you disagree. Thoughts?
Disclaimer: I don’t own one, and I wouldn’t want to. But I can understand the (singular) appeal.
First, the two negative reviews you mention both had cars with the autobox, which pretty much everyone agrees is stupid. TTAC DID do a fairly glowing review on the euro 1-series hatch – which had a stick – way back when. It’s worth looking up.
Second, everything I’ve read says this thing is a track car. From an everyday perspective, the steering’s too damn heavy, the suspension’s uncomfortable, the handling’s squirrely, and in general everything’s too unrefined. Only someone who bought the thing for its badge would think of using it for a daily driver. The one place those foibles don’t matter is on a track (where it apparently shines). So it’s a kind of Rainman among cars – really good at one specific thing, useless at everything else.
You buy 1-series thing for the engine, obviously, and make do with everything else that comes with it. Most places, that other stuff is a liability; on a track, it works out fine. Now, if anyone said it was better fun for the money than a Miata they’d be nuts, but at $29k for that delicious I6 I’d think it should at least be on the short list.
edit: missed the “new” car part, otherwise I was gonna say low-mileage BMW e36 M3.
For new cars, I think people are spot on with an s2000, if you can get it.
“128i owners: could you expand a little on your likes/dislikes of the car?”
Haven’t driven one, but I spent a day as passenger in Boston in one of these. I can’t comment on the steering obviously, but the suspension didn’t strike me as unacceptable, just on the hard side (I like). The owner I know bought it b/c he dosen’t need adults in the backseat and he wanted a car a little bit faster and cheaper than the 3 series. As for the squirrely handling, I didn’t really see that (again, not driving), but I definitely could feel that the car was shorter and quicker to respond than other bmw’s I’ve been in. Honestly, that could have been exagerated by driver inputs though.
The bigger wheels are an improvement, but the car also dosen’t look anywhere near as good as the 3.
If you stick with run-flats, the 1-series has a ride that borders on spine-crushing. Without the run-flats, it’s just stiff. The 3-series feels more sorted on runflats, but isn’t quite as go-kart like.
The 1-series feels more like a go-kart than the current Miata, and, in fact, the 1-series has better electric power steering than the Miata (which can feel a little wooly in the steering department when driven on the limit), but it’s a road car. It’s designed to understeer on the limit, and makes the pretense of having cargo and passenger space, though it has neither in great quantity.
Which is why I’d get a 1-series coupe… maybe… but would never get the hatchback. And I’d still consider the Miata first. It’s still a more involving car, despite not being as razor-sharp or as powerful.
A Miata can make 60 mph feel like 160. It’s epic fun on a twisting road, with the top-down (and no cowl shake, at that) driven at a mere 8/10ths.
But for those who think you need a RWD car to feel like you’re clawing at the road with your own hands and feet… you’ve probably never driven a Mazda(speed) Protege… the steering feel is miles better than current electric rack Mazdas and even many rear-wheel drive cars that actually had hydraulic racks. It lacked front-end grip, but everything talked to you… the front tires, the rear tires, the steering wheel… Sadly, it’s not available anymore. The closest I feel you can get to that nowadays, in the US is the Honda Fit, which has terrible steering feel, despite having good steering response and a communicative chassis… and likely the MINI, though it’s pretty expensive for my tastes.
I concur with Jack Baruth’s definition:
“fun to drive” -“a new car that could be run around a racetrack”, and the nomination of Rx-8 based on this definition.
Out of the under 30k group, Mx-5 may has better handling than Rx-8 but lack the power(that’s why its cheaper too). Mustang has better speed than Rx-8 but too harsh, and it inspire much LESS confidence to drive fast than the Rx-8. The linear torque (not much but still) and high rpm power from the rotary is much more controllable than the burst of torque steer at the turns.
Read the Motortrend America’s best handling car test and you will see how amazing a sub 30k car can rank up there with the big boys “subjectively” based on handling…
Moreover, the 1 series does not even have an LSD (except tii?), and it does hinder you when you are at the limits around the turns. Don’t tell me the fake electronic LSD works as well. All BMW M series has a real LSD and there is a reason for that.
And ultimately, with all things being equal, a RWD car will ALWAYS be better than a FWD in “fun to drive” factor. That’s simple physics. Pushing is better than Pulling when you want to feel the lateral Gs.
So, in my opinion, the “Best Driver’s Car Under 30 Grand” is the Mazda Rx-8. As per Cretinx, a “drivers car” that is RWD, light weight, laser sharp steering and, most importantly – not feel like you’re driving a car, but rather, like you’re wearing a second skin that telepathically reacts to your commands.
“Pushing” and “Pulling” have nothing to do with lateral Gs.
Lightness, grip and balance have everything to do with it. Which is why Europe and Asia are addicted to “hot hatches”.
The proof is in the pudding. I’ve driven some FWD and AWD cars as good as RWD cars (Beemers, at that) of the same weight. It’s not just RWD you want. You want one purposely designed to neutral-steer, and one that’s as light as possible.
The only detriment for FWD in terms of fun is in terms of acceleration G’s, that is all. Power-understeer? Who doesn’t enjoy a wrestling match with the steering wheel every now and then? Isn’t that why muscle cars are so popular?