Sometimes this is an easy question to answer. If you’re talking General Motors, I’d have taken Wagoner out of the driver seat sometime in 2005. At least. But when you’re talking about an aging family member who may be giving up their connection to the outside world, deciding when to take away the keys can be a wrenching decision. The New York Times reports that new tests may help identify when patients with Alzheimer’s begin to place themselves and others in danger by getting behind the wheel. But for elderly people without an early diagnosis of Alzheimer’s or dementia, the signs that a family member may no longer be able to drive safely are not always immediately evident. Have you had to take the keys away fom a family member who was no longer able to drive? Was it possible to do so before an accident occurred? Does your state or local government require additional testing for elderly drivers? Have you been denied driving privileges for reasons other than criminal charges?
God I wish I could. Family and friends. My grandmother’s a particularly scary case–very, very bad driver skill-wise, one of those people who (and I know, I’ve been in the car when she’s done it) take their hands off the wheel, clutch their head and scream when the car skids, slides, the ABS starts pulsing, even when someone cuts her off in a lane change. Absolutely terrifying.
Coupled with the fact that she frequently just does not SEE red lights or stop signs. I’d take it away in a heartbeat.
i dont wanna talk about it.
A few weeks ago a 93-year old driver just went through the front door of my favorite homeopathic remedies store. She had to A) power over the curb, B) drive across a dirt median (a tree had been cut down here) and then past the 4-foot-wide sidewalk, then C) plow through the glass wall. To mistake the gas pedal for the brake is one thing, but she clearly lacked the ability to correct her mistake quickly.
Alzheimer’s or not –and I know what it’s like; my aunt died of complications from the cruel disease– all seniors (all people, really) need to periodically take a full retest to see if they are competent to drive. Even my 78-year-old dad, he’s sometimes scary when we’re riding with him.
Yes and unfortunately no, I wasn’t able to get the keys away before a Dodge salesman took advantage of his dementia and sold him a new van which he didn’t need, then a police officer bringing my relative home after he got lost, and then finally an accident which fortunately only damaged his new van.
He fought me every step of the way.
Both my folks are now 85 — and still driving.
Mom has always been a fast driver — and remains so. She has never had even a fender bender. Her speeds racing to the mall do scare me now that she’s older. She loves her independence, but I don’t think it will be hard to get her to stop when its time.
Dad, otoh, has always been a bit absent minded. He bumped into my car — when it was parked in his driveway 30 years ago! His car looks like the typical old person car — small dents, scrapes, etc — that he says he didn’t do. I cannot imagine having the talk with him about stopping driving — its his way of being independent. That said, he, too, has never had a car accident or even a speeding ticket.
What happened to the International Jeep story?
Remember this one?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/17/farmers.market.crash/index.html
I think ALL drivers should be retested every so often. That may weed out some of those drivers with too many bad habits.
In all honesty I do feel myself slipping on my driving skills the last two years or so. Of course the woman in the passenger seat doesn’t help the situation. You all know about that. It is sure fun when she yells “Look Out!” and of course I have no idea what to what she is referring. It is always something that I have taken into account but she is not aware I have.
It sure can start some beauty arguements.
But I digress. There seems to be more people beeping their horns and shaking their fists at me these days, now of course I just attribute that to the low tolerances of people today and the stress level they carry. Oh I know that’s the incorrect assumption but I do like denial.
I believe here in Ontario after 75 or 80 one must take an annual road test and I am still a few years off of that but I better start practicing.
Get the f#8@ out of my way. I know I am going to turn just cause I forgot to signal is no reason to chew me out.
I am fast becoming my father.
Oh dear.
Tough question. There are some drivers that are better at 85 than some at 25. I agree that there needs to be mandatory testing once a person starts to enter the twilight. Maybe every 2-3 years after a person turns 60? Strike that, maybe 76.
My boss had a whopper of a story. His great aunt (or grand mother on his wife’s side, I forget) drove herself. She was in her 80s. She had a placard the size of a typical letter envelope placed on top of her Buick’s (yes, I’m not joking) gauges that said “THINK!” written with the most obnoxious sharpie marker you could buy. Egads.
To answer the question…
…from my cold, dead hands.
IIRC, here in the Commonwealth driving tests are required annually for those over the age of 70. That seems reasonable to me.
Wow tough question.
I think my moms family convinced my grandmother to sell her old car several years ago when she could not longer see well (she has diabetes). Every other grandparent of mine is dead. Parents are near 60’ish, and they drive ok, but slow (actually dad slow, mom fast).
I did it, after consultation with my brothers, when Mom started taking opiate pain killers regularly. These days she doesn’t even remember that she used to own a car.
I was probably a couple of years too late, because she had a major sleeping pill jones before she went on the oxy. Fortunately, no one got hurt.
Years back, my father pulled the keys on Grandma after she got in a crash in Miami. But, she was so gaga by then that he had to send her and Grandpa straight to the home. Grandpa had quit when when he lost his vision, but he was as sharp as a tack. Even blind he could still play bridge. Just read him his cards, the dummy, and the other cards when played, and he could play the hand from memory and make money.
taking the keys away from your parent is very hard
here’s my story
my mother (passed away may 2007) was having some problems and we would check on her daily . i went to have lunch with her and as i pulled in the driveway i saw the garage door shoved out about a foot , i laughed and got out of my truck and discovered that the car was still running in the garage. front door locked .. got it opened flew out to the garage got car shut off and got her back in the house, she forgot to open the door and it had just happened . i asked for the keys right there and she gave them to me . i thought that was too easy , went out and unhooked the battery , when you do take the keys you become responsible for the needs of the person you took them from .
thanks for listening
paul
It was tough with my father, who was self-employed nearly all his working life, from placer miner in Nevada to burly construction dude to company owner in western Washington, who retired at 72 – I think – then went prospecting in Alaska two summers, out in the boonies with only bears for company.
He got into a beef with a CHP guy for turning into an oncoming lane in a small town in California. No one thought much about it, after all it was four-lane in both directions where it had been two-lane with essentially no traffic in his younger days.
Then he ran off the road and took out a few fenceposts, they totaled the car in spite of not that much damage because it was over 10 years old, no injury. He couldn’t explain afterward how this incident had come about.
Several times people riding with him noticed that there would be times when he would seemingly forget for a few seconds where he was and where he was going.
The end of his driving career came when he rear-ended a Town Car in his VW. It seemed to us that his mental decline accelerated after that, but who’s to say it wasn’t already going that way?
Lord, when my time comes let me go out like a light, with no period of “life” at the end. And not just yet please.
If someone is so old that, when driving around naked because of dementia, their balls hang down so low that it interferes with the safe operation of the pedals, then it is obviously no longer safe for them to drive.
Can’t tell you from experience as my late father suddenly decided to stop driving rather than replace his failing car at age 76.
My sister and I were willing to set him up with another vehicle at the time, but he refused. He suffered a mild stroke a year later and may have had to quit driving then anyway.
The difference may have been that he didn’t get his license until his mid 40s or drive regularly until he was past 50. Without 50+ years of muscle memory, the act of driving may simply not have been that easy for him.
This is an oversimplification, but annual driver testing at 70 years and up, then every six months for 80 and up.
Hopefully, when they pry Ralph SS’s car keys from his cold dead hands, it will be after a single car accident in which he killed only himself. But if “Friends don’t let friends drive drunk,” the same should apply to people who can no longer drive safely. BTW, our local senior center has an AARP-sponsored Mature Driver course that gets you 15% off on your car insurance. If that doesn’t improve their driving, brave their wrath and so something. In Ralph’s case, you may have to take his gun and shoot him, but he made his choice.
PS – Some of those really old drivers are almost are scared as we are. They might appreciate an intervention.
Almost *every* one of us has our own story about an elderly loved one who had to give up driving. Some of the stories are funny, but each is saddening and most were very difficult for all involved. My grandfather was persuaded to give up driving not too long after he drove from Philadelphia to Baltimore with his Volvo 240 in 1st gear.
Driving safely requires mental acuity, visual acuity, and physical dexterity. Advanced old age, or debilitating desease, wears steadily away at these faculties until it is inevitable that each of us (God willing that we live long enough) will have to hand over our car keys some day. And by the stories here (and data from elsewhere) it’s clear that it will eventually be our sons and daughters who tell us to hand them over.
Even though I’m a lawyer, it goes against my nature to shout “There Oughtta Be A Law” about anything. This time, though, I’ll make an exception.
State DMVs need to require frequent ability testing for elderly drivers, and for anyone diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, or senile dementia. (And obviously for anyone with degenerative eye diseases as well.)
It’s unfair and ineffective to put this burden on loved ones. The DMV is in a better position to evaluate a driver’s ability, and it should be their job to be the ‘bad guy’ when it’s time to hand over the keys.
Tough questions. My dad had to have two accidents before he turned in the keys–fortunately there was only mild property damage and no injuries. My mom never liked driving and voluntarily gave up in her seventies.
The solution has little to do with their driving and everything to do with where they live. Please settle your older folks where they can easily walk to many of the things they need to do. Buses and taxis can make up the rest. While you’re at it, find them a place that has only one level. Those two things will enhance the quality of their lives as they age more than almost anything else you can do.
Apparently peteinsonj is my brother and I never knew. Where have you been?
Funny you should post this today…my mother turned 82 earlier this month and had to retake her driving test, which she passed. I don’t know that his faculties have declined so much as his attention wanders even more than it used to, which is saying something.
Please, post some cheerleaders to make up for this picture.
My mother turned in her driver’s license at a certain point. After my father’s stroke, he couldn’t walk out to the car by himself so it wasn’t an issue.
When my father was almost 81, he fell on the tennis court and we were afraid he’d broken a rib (bear with me here). His doctor called me, and suggested that maybe it was time for him to stop playing tennis. I told the doc that since he’d started playing tennis again after my mother had been hospitalized with a stroke, my father hadn’t fallen in the street–something he’d done several times in the previous year–and I thought the judgment skills he used for tennis were probably helping him drive more safely. The doc liked the logic, and my father kept playing tennis and driving until he had the stroke a year later.
His brother, who just died a day short of 86, drove (safely) until he died. He played squash.
My maternal aunt quit driving around age 80, and moved from the suburbs into NYC. Her husband, my other uncle, drove (safely) until he died at 84. He was not athletic.
I don’t think the answer should be “When should you take away the keys belonging to a compromised (usually elderly) driver”, I think the question should be “Why aren’t we testing continuously to ensure all drivers are safe drivers?”
In North America, we grind the hell out of young people for two or three years, then hand them keys and the privilege and don’t ask questions for another sixty years. That’s not smart, because by the time peoples’ skills atrophy, they’ve a lifetime of bad behaviour to deal with as well.
There’s a guy here in town who has driven through the front of the local (former) Dairy Queen TWICE!! Same guy, same restaurant, same booth.
The parking lot is sloped away from the building so the car has to be driven uphill, over the curb, across the 5 ft walkway, and through the wall.
His reason both times – he thought the car was in reverse. I wanted to ask why, if he thought he was in reverse, would he apply that much throttle. The car would idle down the hill faster than most people would care.
I agree with Psar.
(Haha, I can feel his pain now).
At any rate, this is just another reason why we need robotic cars more than busses. Anyone too old to drive in Houston is too old to use the lame bus system. If I can get my income back up, I hope to put Mom in a condo along our silly little rail line that goes nowhere except, strangely, almost everywhere she needs to go.
Great timing for this subject – my wife and I just had “the talk” with my dad last weekend. Did not go well.
We finally ended up agreeing that I was a bad son, he never liked my wife and that he’ll keep driving for another 10 years or so (which would put him into his late 80’s).
The only things that we said that struck home with him was “The grandkids will not be riding with you, ever again” and “since a bottle of Coke only costs 5 cents (his price reference for everything), why do you think that you are paying $5000/yr on auto insurance…?” In Nebraska, on a 8 year old pickup.
By the way, this is (another) excellent reason why cost-efficient, effective mass transit should be a must in 21st Century America. Odds are many our elders wouldn’t drive if they didn’t have to. I can’t imagine this is nearly as much of an issue in, say, Europe
My late father drove himself and my mom to his doctor’s appointments to deal with his brain tumor, until we noticed he was having trouble walking and controlling his limbs due to quiet seizures.
He agreed to give up driving (permitting me to be his driver) in the interest of not injuring himself, my mom, or others due to his illness. I was fortunate to be at a place in life (temporarily unemployed in 2003) where I had the time to help in this way.
He passed only 3 months after that decision was made, but I think he appreciated not having to worry about driving during that time, even though he had been a car buff all his life.
My mom – now 70 – agrees that regular testing is a good idea, since she recognizes that her skills are not as sharp as they once were.
Great question on a serious matter!
Let’s face it, the world economy is toast. We’ve hit peak oil, and it’s all on the down side of the curve from here on out. The third world population continues to explode. The world is probably already past it’s carrying capacity. We can no longer afford the luxury of keeping geezers around for our amusement. Hit 65 years of age, and it’s off to the soylent green factory. No if, ands or buts.
Living in an area particularly saturated with the elderly I have seen and driven around many old drivers who would be far safer for everyone in the passenger seat. I have been on test drives where the driver straddled the lane line for the entire time, I have seen many drivers get lost on their way out of the parking lot, and have even heard tale from another salesperson of a gentleman who came in to buy a car because his was stolen only to return it within the week because he realized he had only forgotten where the original car had been parked.
Given all of that however, I would never tell my parents it is time to give up the keys. Yes, there are risks, yes, there are tragedies, but taking the freedoms from someone who has lived a long life and given to many people is just plain disrespectful in my book. We already give away far too much to feel safe, with everything from having to take our shoes off and liquid restrictions on planes, draconian smoking bans that include bars and casinos, .08 BAC DWI laws, seatbelt and helmet laws, speed cameras, mandatory inspections, the patriot act, the DMCA, to a whole host of other things that erode our liberties but would really digress from the scope of this site.
Yes, there is risk having older drivers on the road, but I’d rather live with a slightly higher risk of a fatal crash than see the freedoms of the eldery further eroded.
(Haha, I can feel his pain now).
Hey, just because you oil your boots with the blood of the underclasses doesn’t mean you’re not a decent, intelligent fellow.
I have not had to have the talk with my folks yet (retired law officers (both), 69, and armed…)
They had the chat with my father’s uncle after two rides in two months with him driving a large Caddy on 2-lanes in Georgia. First experience was pre-cataract surgery (before telling Dad) and he did 80 MPH to and from Atlanta. Dad been a cop for 28 years but was still scared from that thrill ride.
Two months later, post surgery, same ride (why he let him drive is beyond my scope of understanding) and he averaged 20 MPH (yes, 20). Thankfully, that was it for them. My father’s uncle had someone who took care of him by then, and they did the driving until he passed away about a year later.
My father’s uncle was a judge in that little Georgia town, so I guess he felt (and obviously no one did otherwise to our knowledge) that he would be able to tell when it was time to quit, but he did not. We are grateful he did not have an accident in those last few months, but they scared my parents in a way I have rarely seen them act in my lifetime.
Good one, psar.
+1 for NulloModo
At least they’re not “texting” while they’re driving (whatever that is, dadgummit).
Well, for one elderly man on my street, this was the last time he ever drove.
Very simple:
Mother:at age 80 -when the geriatric specialist requested
a: “Draw a round clockface, with the 12 hours on it.” and she finished the 12 hours by 8:00 o’ clock.
b: “Draw a circle with a square inside it and a triangle within the square.” i.e. show me that you recognize the shapes of common road signs – and Mother drew incomprehesible gobblygook. Sent the Motor Vehicle Branch a letter immediately, end of story. That was the onset of Alzheimer’s in 2000 – she died of it in 2005.
Father, 4 months ago, age 90, arrived home and announced “Robert, I’ve smacked up the Camry. That’s the end of my driving”. I’ve been his chauffeur ever since. Much as he finds this a calamity, he has never indicated that he “wants to give it another try”, etc.
Government mandated removal at 75, I’m talking about euthanasia, not just the car keys.
My Grandfather gave up the keys well before he got old. He just walked everywhere, no matter how far. He’d leave in the morning and come back after sunset and we’d ask where he went he’d say “the store” we’d ask “you mean the one 6 miles away down the highway?” and he’d say “yeah.”
Granted, its easier to keep someone from driving if they’ve never driven in this country before.
joe_thousandaire :
February 26th, 2009 at 2:02 am
Government mandated removal at 75, I’m talking about euthanasia, not just the car keys.
You might feel differently at 74 5
I’d say after they drive 123 mph on a moderately-traveled freeway with a carload of family members.