My almost-three-years-old Acura TSX has been developing an annoying cosmetic problem: the plastic bumpers and sill trims have slowly but surely been turning a different color from the rest of the car. We live in a mild climate and I work from home, so the vast majority of the time that car sits protected in a garage out of the way of the sun’s UV rays. Even so, the sheet metal is still blue-silver while the plastic bits are turning a pale green. Argh, I know that over time it is just going to keep getting worse, and my warranty is almost up (45k miles down out of 48k).
So, I decided to try my luck with the dealer for an in-warranty repair. Honestly, I expected the “they all do that” brush off and was thinking about how I would pursue escalation. Much to my surprise, the service writer’s first impression when he saw that car was “wow, that’s pretty bad, it looks like those bumpers came off another car”. He said he couldn’t commit to getting it fixed, but would get the service manager to look at it and that “Acura is pretty good about this kind of thing.” I left feeling surprisingly optimistic and well treated. But, later that night my blood pressure went back up when the service writer called and said he would need the car overnight to get a second opinion from the body shop manager. It seems that the service manager was inclined to go the “they all do that” route after all. Oh boy, here we go.
Much to my surprise and delight, the next day I got another call with word that Acura would be paying to repaint all of the plastic bits and would give me a loaner car for the duration. How would next Tuesday be? This kind of when-in-doubt-take-care-of-the-problem-and-the-customer attitude from Acura will keep me a loyal Honda/Acura customer for quite some time. Had my past experiences with Volvo and GM been so <sarcasm>positive</sarcasm> I probably never would have tried Honda at all. Count mine a rave. How about your warranty service rants and raves?
I have both a rant and rave. I’ll start with the good stuff first:
BMW. They are great at taking care of you. Their standard 4 year 40,000 mile warranty is fabulous and when the say the cover everything they mean it. Naturally they take care of the odds and ends of maintenance, as their brochures will no doubt let you know (such as oil changes, etc. etc…), but if you personally feel that something is wrong with the car they will look it over and most likely will do something about it. Case in point: My E39 was making a weird noise from the front axel steering knuckle, but it was only intermittent. So I took it for them to have a look at, and while they themselves never actually heard the problem they were quick to repair it anyways. That’s good service
Now for the rant: Toyota. These guys do not know what they are doing. We bought a used 2008 Prius in 2008 that was a slavage (I know, there in lies the problem…but still, I’ve had good experiences with other salvaged cars before). It was a great steal, fully loaded with less than 5,000 miles for 20,000 dollars, totally wipping out the hybrid drivetrain penalty. Anyways, it turned out that it was a lemon, but it was a lemon only because of a singular fault that they weren’t able to track down. So first they replaced the ECU, charging us 1,500 bucks. It worked for about 2 months, and then the problem came back, so the part was under warranty and the replaced it again (?) in hopes of it fixing the problem (again [!]). It didn’t. Then they told us it must be a wiring harness, which is another 500….didn’t fix it….we still paid for it….last step: replacing the transmission which has a small 2 dollar plastic connector on it for the wiring harness. 3,500 dollars. great…. at least it works now….
In 2007 my two year-old xB with 15k miles developed a chirp in the clutch throw-out bearing just after I bought it used. Anxious about the state of the clutch too, I asked about how much more it would cost to replace it once everything was apart. Dealer called back and said Toyota threw in a free clutch assembly as “a courtesy”. They’ve bought my loyalty.
BMW has gone downhill a bit since your e39 service methinks. They have developed a reputation as of late of having a 3750 mile warranty instead – towards the end, they are much more likely to claim there’s nothing wrong and wait for the warranty to fall off to diagnose significant issues.
This isn’t just a dealer specific problem either – its reasonably well documented with the enthusiast crowd.
I had a Jaguar X-type that was CPO and had a factory extended warranty. One day while driving home the car completely shut down for no reason. It came back to limp mode and allowed me to crawl at 5mph to the dealer. After looking it over for a day the dealer told me that it was, in fact, the passenger side lightbulb which caused extensive electrical damage to the car. Unfortunately, they sadly explained, the lightbulb was not covered under the warranty, therefore none of the resultant damage was either. After I brought in the wiring diagram and showed them that the lightbulb could not have caused the damage my car had been diagnosed with, I managed to get the bill down to only $150. I got rid of that car a few months later.
We have been long time Honda buyers, and therefore have no experience at all with warranty issues.
Rave: The only fault on my 05 xB was the failure of the passenger window switch after a year. The dealer replaced the switch with one from another car on the lot in about 1 hour.
Rant #1: My former 05 Odyssey broke the day I bought it, with 26 miles on the odometer (power sliding door failure, followed by both turn signals failing in succession, and numerous other issues). That began a 20-month nightmare of terrible Honda dealer service, lemon law litigation, and downtime with the vehicle. They even damaged the car once while in the shop. I finally won a small settlement and unloaded that miserable car immediately after everything was fixed. I traded down for a 98 Caravan that I could trust and afford.
Rant #2: My former 02 Passat couldn’t stay out of the shop for numerous electrical problems and high oil consumption in the V6. In this case, the dealer was great to work with, but my crystal ball told me this car would be expensive to keep, and I traded it down for the xB mentioned above. I think the dealer enjoyed charging their work back to VW, since sales were kinda slow, so they never gave me any trouble. I think they were inventing problems with the car just to generate revenue from the manufacturer for their shop. I really didn’t want my car used as a pawn that way.
We were always treated very well by the many GM dealers we had to take our POS S10 over the time we owned it. GM even replaced the transmission after it blew up just outside the warranty period. They didn’t want to pay for it the second time it blew up and almost killed me, but a trip to small claims court and “how much money do you want to go away?” from their lawyer and all was well.
Not a warranty repair, but I once had a stationary Ford bashed by a hit and run pickup. Front bumper and some hood sheet metal needed work, plus headlight assembly. I get it back nice and shiny, had the oil and filter done while it was in.
Months later, doing a routine oil check, I notice that the underside of the hood is unpainted, and beginning to rust. How they got the nice finish of the paint to wrap juussst around the leading edge of the hood is beyond me. Charming.
Next time I will take my crumpled sheet metal to Lexus, no matter what brand I am driving. I can’t believe they pulled the stunt on me. How much more could it have cost to treat the underside of the hood?
I had a BMW X5 which was out of warranty. It has a small display over the steering column to show alerts and the top half stopped displaying. When I showed the dealer, they did a repair quote which came to hundreds of dollars but on seeing it, the service manager decided that it was unusual and should not have failed and they replaced it for free. Good car the X5!
I’ve been with Honda/Acura for years now with similar experiences. Here are two,
1. 2004 MDX, out of warranty by 3000 miles, driver side seat heater broke. I called Acura customer service, they said to take it in and it was fixed free of charge. They also replaced the seat reclining mechanism which was sticking.
2. 2001 Honda Accord, driver side window mechanism was dead, replaced 5K out of warranty.
It’s been my experience that they really stick with the product, and a pleasant call to customer service goes a long way.
These little things add up, I am now a loyal customer and converted most of my family. Between us, we own 8 Honda/Acura products.
Rant – The VW dealer that dented my brand new GTI while it was in for its first service. I knew they did it because of a poor attempt to touch it up. If they’d left it untouched, I’d have assumed that it was just done in a parking lot. I’m not going to say which dealer, but it’s the only one in Annapolis. I’ve never been so vocally angry at anyone.
Rave – After ten years and $200k worth of VW/Audis later, I’m extremely happy with Riverside Audi in NJ. I thought I had what sounded like a serious bearing problem in the rear driver’s side wheel of my S4. I figured I’d damaged it while driving about five miles on a flat while finding a safe place to change the spare. Turns out that it was a piece of sound insulation material that got untucked behind the wheel after I changed the tire. I felt like a dumbass, but I appreciated their honesty.
’06 VW Jetta. The car drives great, but the glove box refused to shut at 10K. Dealer ordered a new one and installed for free–no hassles. At 16K both sun visors came loose. For some strange reason, these cannot be replaced without exchanging the entire headliner. This requires disassembling the interior of the car, and removing one seat (I guess so the guy can lay down to work in the cabin). The repair took a day, but no charge to me. God knows what this would have cost at retail shop charges. I really like the Jetta, but spending a few more dollars on quality parts that “could” break would save VW $ in the long run, I think.
Rant. Scion.
I had an xB for about 14 months before i couldnt take it any more. The dealer was incredibly arrogant and believed nothing Toyota ever built could fail. Took four trips to replace a faulty MAF sensor with only 1500 miles on the car “sometimes they need to break in”. Went threw two power window switches in 4 months. And the car alarm would sound at random intervals…while i was driving. I will not own another toyota product.
Rant 2. Scion
My girlfriend at the time had an xA (A/T) and when it downshifted while braking down hill the brake pedal would turn to mush and fall towards the floor. after months and months and over 10 trips to the dealer and countless lawyers they finely went so far as to change the brake pads and fluid. it didnt help. we got a lemon law attorney involved who ruled that it was normal operation even though no one was ever able to replicate the situation on another car.
Rave. VW
surprisingly enough for all the haters out there, I bought a 07 GTI after the xB and it has been flawless for nearly 30k miles. it has only been back to the dealer for 20 minutes to replace a bad cruise control relay.
We used to have Saabs. Liked the dealer. Service was great. Always got a loaner. Never an issue. If it was a little part, they’d even mail it to me so I could put it in myself. They did Subarus too.
Then Saab moved to the Buick dealer. Everything became a big dealer. Loaner….whoa, we don’t usually do that. Made us feel like they were doing us a HUGE favor. Kept making us come back for parts piecemeal keeping the car a day each time. Really disorganized. Finally, after a few bad services just got rid of the cars and didn’t look back. We would have been repeat Saab customers indefinitely.
My wife still talks about her 9-5 longingly. Great seats. Crap service.
Rave: ’06 Malibu. At 42k miles, the power steering went out under the 100k master plan warranty. I had it towed to the local Chevy dealer, who competes with the adjacent new arrival P-B-GMC dealer next door. The master plan had a $100 deductible; they threw in the 50k maintenance for the cost of the deductible. Within three hours, the car was back running — the steering sensor had gone on the fritz, and so they replaced the steering column. No problems before or since. GM sent me a check for the tow cost.
Rant: My Olds 88 suffered catastrophic transmission failure when I was young, dumb, and believed the mileage rating on the transmission fluid so didn’t get it flushed sooner. When it was finally “due”, the transmission was smoked. GM would not cover it, even though the dealership (Pontiac-Olds) said it looked like an error from the factory — it was a $2,000 repair. It broke again within 12 months, which the dealership would not honor under their 12 month warranty on the service.
RANT!!!!
Took my 2005 Cooper S (bought new) into the dealer no less than 8 times for a Check Engine light that decided to come on anywhere from 1 day to a week after getting it turned off.
Started w/ a supercharger going bad after 6700 miles, and yes, I did take it easy during the break-in period. Took it in, it was replaced after almost a week. Got it back in the morning and the Check Engine light came on that evening. Took it in the next day, picked it up the day after, the light came back on literally as I was leaving the dealer. Took it immediately back.
This went on for months, where the dealer would reprogram the computer or replace a part, and the light would come back on. In the midst of all this, my clock was replaced for running too fast (gaining 1 hour every 2 weeks!), turn signal light needed to be replaced, no power for about 2 seconds in 1st gear when engine was cold (not only annoying, but dangerous) which was never fixed. On top of that, once while the car was in for the stupid light, the detailer kid managed to back into the car with someone’s BMW, forcing me to leave the car for yet another week as a new hood had to be ordered and replaced.
Sh!tty ownership experience with that MINI. Funny thing is, at the local MINI car club meets, I’d hear how someone would talk endearingly about how something else went wrong with their car, with the sense that this is what comes with owning a MINI. Screw that sh!t. I had too much self-respect to keep that gremlin-infested vehicle and ended up getting a lemon-law refund, giving up only $1800 since the law in MD gives you the value of the car from the date and mileage of the first incident.
It was the most fun car to drive and the most awful car to own.
My current 08 GTI has been nearly flawless in 14K miles of driving. Had to replace the iPod adapter and replace a back tag light. Nothing since.
“Extended” warranty rant:
Sure, the warranty company will pay for the new timing belt, head work, and pistons, but they will not pay for the new water pump THAT IS DRIVEN BY THE TIMING BELT!
The stupid thing is, if the water pump fails after the timing belt job, while under the warranty, they would essentially pay for ANOTHER timing belt job since the labor is damn near the same.
I paid for the stupid water pump out of pocket to prevent more downtime down the road.
-ted
My ’93 Saturn had the oil use problem. Saturn was determined to do their best to avoid doing anything about it. I don’t remember how many oil use tests I had–alot, though. At the beginning of one of them, Saturn of Woodbridge made me spend $300 to fix a minuscule oil leak before they wouild do the test. The car had started using oil before 17k miles. I finally got a new engine (paid $700 over and above what it would have cost to diagnose and then do the ring and valve jobs that were usually done in these cases). In this case, Saturn’s vaunted service was terrible, and I suspect they lost a lot of people over the oil use problem. One more thing I could have added to
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-truth-about-saturn/
rant – my Chevy had a failed AC compressor. The dealer replaced the compressor, blew the lines and found metal shavings. Figured they had blown out all the metal shavings, decided what the hell, fire her up aaaaannnnnd, the new compressor failed. Tried to charge me for it,too. I’d look at another Chevy, but won’t have to worry about that dealer – he’s long gone out of business.
rave – I still got loaners when I took in my (up to) 17 year old Porsche 911. The loaners were either Boxsters, Cayennes or Caymans, too. OTOH, those services were expensive…..
Rant: VW
I loved my 01 Jetta Wolfsburg, it was great to drive, and the early experiences with dealer service were great. I had the standard problems, Maf Sensor Failure, Window regulator failure and Coilpack failure all in the first 2 years. All covered and no hassles. Then I moved. Dealing with the above mentioned dealer in Annapolis was a chore, in fact after a few visits I made it a habit to drive to DC for ANY work on my Jetta.
The final straw for me with VW was the known (at least in the enthusiast community) problem with the BBS wheels on the Wolfsburg model pitting and peeling the finish off the edge near the tire. BBS said “we sold them to VW not our problem, VW said “you shouldn’t have had the tires changed by anyone but a dealer.” or “Hey, salt causes that, don’t drive in winter.” The problem is that I had the peeling on all the tires to varying degrees, not the only one that had a new tire on it (actually the wheel with the least damage).
After talking to the Service manager and the VW Area rep, and someone at VW HQ, I finally dropped it. It was not worth the high blood pressure and months of phone calls and email to deal with a small issue. But I still think that a manufacturer should stand behind a problem like that that shows up in a significant percentage of their product. As I said to the VW rep. If I treat my customers like that, like they are wrong till they prove that I am, I end up loosing customers. Why would a bigger corporation be any different?
Maserati of Finland is tops. Car has been wonderful but when service is needed they come and take car, leave a better one on loan. When your vehicle returns they bring you a bottle of wine and the petrol is topped off – no small thing at Finnish petrol prices.
Volvo of Finland is opposite, slow surly bastards, no loan car, no wine, complete bad experience.
How I parted ways with GM
I grew up on the GM side of the tracks. My hot rod friends drove Chevys, large and small block V-8s with Munice 4-speeds. My father had a bunch of Cadillacs. My late ’60’s college hippie-days wheels was a 1/2 ton Cheyv Step Van with a straight 6, 3 on the column, a bed/darkroom in the back ( behind the sliding door), that looked like this. Oh, driving with the doors open in the summer and a girl sitting on the engine cover, her legs over the instrument cluster, back up against the far side window. Like driving a greenhouse down the road and so fine when stoned. . Dependable as a hamer, less a few quirks. My first new car was a Vega wagon which did just fine…but then I always paid attention to my wheels.
Fast forward to the late ’80’s, I told my wife to get a Chevy Cavalier wagon. A year and a half on it develops an oil leak bad enough that it’s difficult to find. So I spray the engine with Gunk and hose it down. Found the leak but lunched
an electronic widget that maybe told the EFI where the throttle was. So far, no real complaints. But Then The Trouble Started: you could not get a replacement. The car and the engine were still in production, but no part.
1, 2, 3, 4 months, no part. Plenty of promises, missed time and again, no part. Did everything but sent dynamite. And to start the car, even when warm, it was necessary to take the air cleaner off and use starting ether. Very, very old, plus I had to give my car to my wife in the interim. Bassids. Never again. Buy American? Puleeze, there are limits.
How about a non rant, and an explanation why the next Detroit nameplate vehicle I buy will be a truck, or nothing.
My inherited 2000 Lexus ES 300 had a noise in the right front that sounded like a bearing to me, having had to pay to replace more than one in various Fords and GMs over the years.
This car was about 25,000 miles and 7 years out of warranty. I went to the local Lexus dealer and described the noise. The service rep doubted my diagnosis but put a mechanic in the car with me to drive it. We pulled onto the Spring Road headed to I-285 so he could hear it. He told me he had heard enough before we got to HWY 41.
Summary version, he told me that bearing should last 150-200,000 miles or so, at worst, and he would try to get it repaired courtesy of Lexus.
They put me in a classy upscale Lexus loaner. I returned it the next morning to find out Nalley Lexus had replaced both bearings, assemblies, etc., done their usual great washing and car prep, and I owed them $0.
As I sometimes post, my attitude is often described here by the Detroiters as uninformed, ignorant, out of date, and the like. That may be true. But with various Detroit 2.5 products driven in the last 50 years ( I got my license in Texas at age 14), I was basically told “TS” when I had a problem that seemed like an engineering problem to a customer like me.
Oh, the calamity. I had a warranty claim on an 01 Accord Coupe. It turns out they had two different colours of red that year and I got the wrong red on the windshield jets. Had to drive it back to the dealer to get replaced. Wow. I guess I’ll get another Honda as it’s the only problem so far…but the clock is still running.
Goodness, WHAT will happen next?
My issue is not with my Mazda dealer, but rather with Mazda Canada. My 2006 Mazda5 GT has a very annoying problem: whenever the temperature drops below 0 degrees Celcius, which happens a lot in Toronto, the car begins to moan and groan and squeak loudly over bumps, even small ones. This problem has occurred since 2006. I have had my front and rear bushings replaced 4 times, as well as the rear shocks. The problem goes away for a couple of weeks, but always returns. My dealer tells me that Mazda still has not issued a fix for this problem, even though it is very common. Do a search on google, and you will see many complaints!
Mazda Canada also refused to replace my brakes and rotors under warranty when they were warped at 15,000km! They told me that I must be braking too hard, and that it was wear and tear. However, I don’t believe that 15,000km is an acceptable amount of longevity out of brakes and rotors that are on a brand new car.
Also lastly, I would like to warn anyone that is about to purchase a car with rain sensing wipers. My car’s windshield is cracked, and the Mazda Dealers in my area are all asking $940 for a new windshield because apparently the windshield has a sensor in it. This is absolutely ridiculous! Even the private autoglass repair shops are asking $750+ to replace it. In my opinion, the “convenience” is most certainly not worth it!
One rant and one rave with my 2000 Acura TL.
I babied that car and it got all recommended services at the local dealer.
Bad news: it needed a valve job at 70K. No factory support. Cost me $1900.
Good news: during the 90K service the technician determined that something was bad in the differential of the automatic transaxle. Honda picked that one up. (Their automatics have an attrocious failure rate.)
I didn’t buy another Acura although came close to getting the TSX. Got a Lexus IS instead. No problems in 2 years.
Changsta – Must be different in Canada, but in the US most insurance companies will pay 100% of the cost of your windshield being replaced with no increase in your premium.
Chrysler “REMANUFACTURED” transmissions.
Not rebuilt, not overhauled, not refreshened (whatever that is.), not repaired, BUT GAWD DAMNED REMANUFACTURED!!!
Put it in, JUNK. Chrysler replaced half of it, still junk, so they replaced the WHOLE THING. Still junk. Replaced a few things and it’s still junk (very hard shifting when it gets good and ready to shift, pouring oil all over the garage floor, more).
That’s all we can do for you, sir.
The best I can tell, and it’s only my opinion plus what several have told me, they are getting them out of the junk yard, changing the oil, and calling it “REMANUFACTURED.”
Avoid
In the six years I’ve owned my Acura the ONLY issue that I’ve ever had was a slight rotten-egg smell that started about 6 months in. A service technician at Northwest Acura (in Calgary) told me it was the gas I was using. He told me to go to Esso. I told him I already did go to Esso. So then he said ‘go to Shell’.
So I called Silverhill Acura and without hesitation the Service Receptionist booked me an appointment to replace the catalytic converter for free. I’ve been loyal to Silverhill Acura ever since.
So Northwest Acura can go to Shell (lose the ‘s’).
1993 Grand Caravan transmission – $1000 in rental cars and 12 trips thru the service department before it failed in the way that corporate policy allowed the dealer to fix it.
2001 Toyota Sienna – Engine management computer failed. Service writer said “Gee, that never happens. Here’s the keys to a loaner, yours will be fixed day after tomorrow”.
Draw your own conclusions.
cpu
Rant on Mercedes-Benz:
Bought a 2002 C320 wagon in Canada on a dip discount (my last “overseas” post). ECU replaced at 7k miles.
Return to the US with the car. Within 4 years, ECU replaced 2 more times. Every window lift motor replaced. Seat motors (driver and passenger) replaced. Sunroof motor replaced.
MB Canada said the car was in the States and they weren’t responsible. MB USA said I bought the car in Canada and they weren’t responsible. MB Germany (Hqs) said they weren’t responsible.
They were all irresponsible and I will be g–damned if I ever buy another POS MB again.
A friend’s Audi A6 required $7,500 in repairs a few months after the warranty matured. Though always serviced by the dealer, somehow they were overlooked during the warranty period.
On another note… I have a 2006 TSX and I wanted to get it in that silver-blue color, but I couldn’t find one in stick with the navigation, so I got silver… looks like a dodged a bullet.
I brought my TSX in for a mild shimmy when I brake moderately and they said my rotors were pitted and would not machine them or replace them. This was 2 years and 20,000 miles into my car’s ownership. I have not been back to the dealer for any maintenance since, going instead to a local garage my father has been using and have received much better service and prices.
“…. 2002 C320 wagon ….. Within 4 years, ECU replaced 2 more times. Every window lift motor replaced. Seat motors (driver and passenger) replaced. Sunroof motor replaced.”
You know, people love to make fun of English (Lucas) electrics, but I’ve had more problems with German (Bosch, etc.) electrics than with any others. Several years ago we bought an expensive state of the art Bosch dishwasher. It had its first breakdown at 18 months of age and by the time it reached four years old the thing was literally falling apart. In disgust I pulled the thing out and greatly enjoyed pushing it off the tailgate at the metal recyclers. Replaced it with a middle/high-end KitchenAid and have been dishwasher trouble free for about five years since. It seems to me that many German companies have been trading on the German Engineering/German Quality reputation for so long that they have forgotten to make sure the product lives up to the reputation.
Another story: Recently I fixed the non-operative VDO odometer in our 1993 Volvo by re-soldering connections on the circuit board inside the speedometer/odometer assembly. (Thanks to brickboard.com for the tip!). I’m no fan of German electrics thank you.
Imagine the knowing stories we would be hearing if Lucas had made VW’s infamous bad coils instead of the German firm Bremi.
blue adidas-
That must be standard VW service dept practice. Took my 08 GTI in for the TSB on the bad A/C unit (mine crapped within a couple weeks of having the car). Came back with a big scratch in the door. They fixed that, then it came back with a big ding in the rear panel and white stuff on the leather that they had to have their leather guy come in to get off.
I took it back there for the free first oil change I negotiated. About a month later, I have a very strange dent by the front driver side wheel. I can’t figure how it could possibly be there, and I obviously have no way of knowing how/when/who put that dent there, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did that one too.
I’m not going there for my fuel line rattle. At least that TSB and hopefully an easy fix.
All my previous cars were 10+ years old. Based on my new-car warranty service I’ve received so far, part of me wants to go back to the old days where minor problems were just ignored by me since they weren’t free to fix. :)
I think BMW has changed as well. Parents have not had the best experience with their 3 series….though in the end the issue was solved (under warranty…no special favors, just took some constant prodding to get them to acknowledge there was actually a problem). On the flip side, my grandfather, who has purchased a 5 series and 2 7 series from the same dealership (not the one my parents use) treat him like a king. Maybe you gotta spend a bit more to get the good treatment at the BMW store.
Rave.
My 350Z’s transmission made a very loud and unusual whirr and clatter at idle. I ignored it for a while. Sometimes the clutch pedal acted funny when it was cold, and would judder noticeably. At 12200 miles I took it to Santa Monica Nissan who simply told me I was going to get a new transmission the next day, when I hadn’t heard from them and called to see what was up. They couldn’t tell me what was wrong with it because Nissan NA told them not to take the old transmission apart. Aside from not calling me about it the next day, and some resistance from the courtesy shuttle driver (their range is 8 miles, I needed to go 9 miles) it was hassle free. The new transmission is quiet and the clutch doesn’t act funny anymore.
Rant: VW. I was driving my ’00 GTI through a canyon road (woo!) and hit an undulation in the road when a terrible crashing and crunching sound emanated from below the car (boo).
Pulling over I found several large chunks of German plastic all over Laurel Canyon Blvd. I picked ’em all up, stowed them in the well-appointed cargo area, and boogied on over to VW of Valencia.
The dealer didn’t even get my car on a lift before declaring I must have damaged it and rang up a bill for many hundreds of dollars. They delivered this news to me with the arrogant, pissy attitude common to VW dealers as I would learn over the many, many warranty repairs to come.
Anyway, before I forked over the dough, I asked to see the affected parts again. The dealer claimed that I hit something with such enthusiasm that all of the underbody panels were simultaneously ripped from their mountings. The query as to why such hoonage wouldn’t cause suspension or body damage was met with a blank stare.
So I took a good look at all the plastic shields and found that none of the mounting points had been damaged. In addition, none of them even had any scoring from whatever bolts supposedly held them in place. The dealer then claimed that I must have hit something with such force that the mounting points had stretched past their respective bolts like some sort of rubber band.
The dealer actually got argumentative with me about this, claiming there was no possibility that the car was defective! I had them put Das Auto on a lift (for the first time this service visit) so that I could see for myself these supposed crap-ass bolts that can’t hold plastic bits to the underside of the car for more than 1,000 miles.
Shazam, no bolts were there. The factory never actually secured these bits to the bottom of my car! Took me another hour to actually get the service writer to approve it as a warranty repair. Unbelievable. Stupidly, I still lust after the GTI…
Rave: My ’04 Prius developed a very noisy A/C compressor about 15,000 miles out of warranty. Still worked, but it frightened children and puppies and such. Toyota of Hollywood worked with the corporate mothership to pick up the cost of the part. I didn’t know what a big deal this was until after the fact, when I found out it’s $1,100! The compressor is bundled with the electric motor that powers it and the whole mess had to be swapped. I picked up the cost of labor and silently motored away. Thanks, Toyota!
John Horner:
While slightly OT; Bosch dishwashers have been built in North Carolina since 1997, according to the Bosch Appliance web site. I used to work with a guy who had been a design engineer there so at least some of the engineering is done in the USA (I won’t comment on my perception of the individual’s competence).
At 70k my Trooper transmission started odd-shifting and then just barely was able to propel the car, so I brought it in and Isuzu replaced it for free ($4100) under the 10/120. They were awesome; too bad they closed.
I bought my Saab used with 18k on it. Upon taking it to the dealer to get an ipod jack installed I bitched about how the trunk hinges seemed fragile and hard to open, and the front speakers didn’t handle loud bass very well. They replaced all that (and a gas cap and later xenon headlight) under warranty. They were awesome; too bad they closed.
Within 7k of going out of warranty (60k), our Volvo S70 needed an a/c dryer and compressor, and the ABS computer and all sensors. We took a bath on trade and bought a Toyota.
Rave: Saturn= Bought a very lightly used Ford Windstar from a Saturn dealer. Came with the balance of the factory warranty, which they honored. Quick polite service and no BS. If I still lived in that area I would cheerfully buy a car from that dealership again.
Rant: Nissan= Purchased an ’02 Frontier brand new. Was in the shop constantly with that truck for one reason or another. Got a lot of run around and refusals to fix things. Going to Nissan corporate did not help.
I’d begun lemon law procedings when the truck was (I’m not joking) backed over by a garbage truck. That was an amazingly appropriate end for that little POS.
I still like Nissan, I’d had good luck with a Sentra and a Maxima before this truck, but I won’t ever buy a new one from them again.
An observation here…most of these comments are from people who drive foreign makes. Does that mean the D3 owners have less problems? No, not at all. Even if D3 warranty issues were much less, the horrid service at the typical dealer would be more than enough to make a big showing here. No, the point I am getting at is representation. I have come to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of TTAC posters do not own domestic vehicles, which is fine, but it make me wonder how the B&B can be sooo sure that almost every domestic product sucks when they most likely haven’t owned one in at least a decade, probably more like two decades. I guess there is some merit to the “perception gap” theory, especially if the “gappers” are using their rental Sebring or Impala as their basis. Try renting a Lucern or Malibu, you might be quite surprised if you are man enough to admit it.
Rave: Ford – was traveling in the Montana rockies when the water pump on my old Taurus with about 190,000 miles finally decided to give up. Literally coasted it down a mountain to a dealer. Of course it was a small town that didn’t have the part in stock. They called around and found one in a town about 2 hours drive away. Since it was already mid-afternoon there was no chance of getting it fixed that night. They gave us a loaner (F-350 diesel) while the mechanic took off on a road trip to get the part. Car was ready to go by 9am the next morning. Parts and labor was under $200…no charge for the 4 hour round trip parts run. Small town hospitality at its finest.
@John Horner:
“While slightly OT; Bosch dishwashers have been built in North Carolina since 1997, according to the Bosch Appliance web site. I used to work with a guy who had been a design engineer there so at least some of the engineering is done in the USA (I won’t comment on my perception of the individual’s competence).”
Bought a Bosch dishwasher and range for this very reason(made in N/A) as I refuse to buy any Chinese made producs. And no, I’m not a CAW/UAW man (independent business owner). The diswasher has been stellar! As for the range; we are on our second unit in 2 years. The first one just wouldn’t work properly and the second unit has had 3 service calls so far. Must be the B team making and designing the ranges.
I gotta say it, maybe I am the luckiest person on the planet, but in the last 20 years, my wife and I have owned the following vehicles, all USED:
’90 Plymouth Grand Voyager V-6 (bought used with 21k)
’92 Celica GT (bought used with 43k)
’95 Corolla (bought used with 14k)
’97 Camry (bought used with 26k)
’92 Honda Accord Wagon EX (bought used with 73k)
’00 Mitsubishi Montero Sport ES (still have, bought used with 58k, now have 90k, no issues)
’97 Audi A-6 Quatro Avant (still have, bought used with 78k against gear-head friends advice, now have 110k, never an issue)
My wife and I have had fairly long commutes, so we probably averaged 45k miles per year between us, which means we have put an appoximate total of 900,000 miles on these cars while we owned them. Most were bought certified used, one previous owner and came with warranties.
We have done routine maintenance,oil changes, tranny flushes, radiator flushes, belts and hoses, etc.
NEVER, in 20 years, have we been to a dealer for any warranty work for any of these vehicles.
So, I figure either I bought the cars after the original owners had dealt with any of the “new-car gremlins” and got them sorted out, or I am, as I said, the luckiest SOB on the planet when it comes to cars.
Listening to new car problems cited above make me want to question why I would ever want to buy new, and make me want to continue to trust my judgement, luck, whatever….on buying used vehicles.
Just wondering why so many people seem to have such frequent issues with new cars….
Like to see a “flipside” QOTD where any of the B&B who work at dealers have horror stories about hooners who come in and try to pass off damage from….erm….exuberant driving as warranty damage. There is two sides to every story, methinks.
My rant? 2000 VW GTI GLX purchased new. Within 2000 miles it started to make a noise from the rear suspension when going over bumps. It took 7 service visits and a Lemon Law notification to VW before they fixed the problem by replacing the rear struts and shock top mounts. After another 10,000 miles, the problem returned. VW again replaced the struts and shock top mounts.
When I sold the car at 40,000 miles, the problem had returned yet again.
Rant:
Saab. The 2002 9-3 had an engine management issue that would result in rough running and fouling of the engine’s internals. Spark plugs/ignition cassette, oil pickup, oil screen, everything. Saab will, if you press them, reprogram the engine. They will not replace a thing proactively (oh, did our ECU programming foul your spark plugs? That’s wear and tear, not warranty), nor clean the engine.
They will, however, happily wait for the sludge buildup to kill it and, if you kept your receipts, replace the engine, up to seven years and unlimited mileage. Probably beyond, too, if you have a good lawyer. Thusly, every single B205-equipped Saab is a ticking time bomb.
If they’d make an effort to clean the engine, rather than just crossing their fingers and hoping customers won’t have the receipts to back up the claim, they might have some customers to speak of today, instead of pissed-off owners who’ve defected to, well, anyone else.
Rant: I own a 2000 Altima bought as a certified used car off lease with extended warranty. While driving, I hear a bang and the car becomes very difficult to steer. Drive it slowly to my local mechanic. He pops the hood and sees that the power steering pulley is broken. I check my extended warranty and see all engine pulleys are covered. I call Nissan and ask them to tow the car to the nearest dealership. Once there, I drop off the key because it is after service hours. Th enext day I take a cab to the dealership and ask what is going on. They precede to tell me the pulley is not stock (sorry, it was always under warranty and certified by Nissan), then they tell me it failed due to corrosion (still covered, try again), and finally that the bolt holding it in failed and not the pulley. Since the bolt is not covered I have to pay. After 30 minutes of non-stop arguing and thoughts of simply stealing by car back with the spare key, I pay the $500 for the parts and labor because I need the car. They wanted me to pay for towing since the car wasn’t a warranty repair. More arguing got that removed. A call and complaint to Nissan North America got me nowhere. Will I ever buy a Nissan again? Not likely. Decent car, but some of the worst service anywhere. Too many sketchy dealerships.
I rarely have the luxury of a warranty, as I drive cars to 200K and beyond often (and quickly).
In the 8,000 miles my Subaru was under warranty (powertrain only), they made good on wheel bearings and a gearbox rebuild for a faulty 1st gear synchros.
Full disclosure: the first gear synchros issue was a casualty of a friend’s daft left foot and a subsequently disintegrated clutch. But, since no questions were asked…
So I have no complaints, in fact, I probably owe SoA a bit of patronage.
Too many rants to list, but…
A rave for Saab service (Yeah, I know). We purchased our 9-5 wagon in 2007 under Saab’s excellent certified pre-owned program. The warranty expired 10/31/08, and just like in the movies, we had a bright yellow CEL the next day. The diagnosis was the dreaded direct ignition cassette – think individual coils, but four times the fun. This is approximately a $500 repair, so I decided to ask for a little, you know…love. At the dealer’s suggestion, I called GM directly (yes, there were people answering the phones) and within 48 hours they approved the repair, parts and labor, under their goodwill guidelines. Whoever said GM ruined Saab is just nutty. I kid, I kid…
“While slightly OT; Bosch dishwashers have been built in North Carolina since 1997.”
Mine was purchased in 1996 and was clearly marked Made in Germany. I have friends with newer ones who love theirs, so perhaps the NC built ones are better. German plastics are often horrible. One of the many problems with our dishwasher was that the little plastic wheels the upper rack rode on kept disintegrating … and cost $120 a set to replace!
Back to cars, my ’85 Scirocco went through the plastic clips which held the sunvisors in place and the similar ones which kept the luggage cover attached at an absurd rate.
Rant
I’ve owned two Acura’s back-to-back and have gone to the same dealership for the majority of my servicing. While under warranty, in my 3rd year of ownership, my Acura developed a rust spot on the hood. Took it to the dealer, they said according to the corrosion warranty, they can only fix it if there is “rust perforation”(rusts through the metal and creates a hole). I took up the cause with Acura Canada. They sided with the dealer. This will be my last Acura. I haven’t gone back to that dealer for servicing ever since.
Rave
My Saab dealerhsip experience started off rocky, but has improved ever since they got rid of the initial service advisor I dealt with. Whenever I bring the car with any issue(even near Saab Service closing time), they ensure the vehicle is looked at by a tech, I receive a loaner and they take no chances with repairs. They totally replace any suspect parts(I had an issue with rear power window). The techs even take the time to come out and talk to the customers or to show customers the work they’ve done.
My stories are linked. Coincidentally or not.
I had just gotten and was very happy with a Fiat Siena. Two close friends were in the market at that time, and since their needs were similar to mine, I strongly recommended my car to them. Neither were Fiat fans, but one bit the bullet and the other said, “Fiat never,” and went on and forked over the extra bucks for Ford Escort. (This was 1997).
Well, both friends’ cars’ engines blew up for no reason. The Fiat’s at 5000km and the Ford’s at 3000km. My friend with the Fiat took it to the dealership, they looked at it for half an hour, came back and said that they were very sorry and embarassed, they saw the engine had a problem, would change the whole engine, and please wouldn’t he take a loaner (very rare courtesy in this country). After a few days car ready, and no further problems for the remaining time hept the car. He still drives a Fiat today.
The other friend took his car to Ford, they kept him waiting for an hour, said they didn’t know what was wrong, but they were calling an engineer from the factory to analyse it. The engineer comes a week later, looks at the car for 15 min and says that the engine blew up because of water getting into the exhaust and then the engine and that Ford was not responsible. The only solution was for my friend to pay up for a new engine. My friend can’t believe this (he lived in Brasilia by the way, and this happened in the dry season when Brasilia doesn’t see rain for more than 6 months and gets drier than the Sahara desert), complains, calls the factory, calls Ford USA (who do like Pilatus), calls newspaper, all to no avail. So, he sues them.
Long story short, after 3 and a half year the judge condemns Ford to give him a new car, plus some damages (citing in his sentence how Ford could never prove their claim that my friend damaged the car and by taking other experts opinions called into the case, all saying the car had a manufacturing defect that caused it to blow up).
I once talked to a guy who works for Fiat and studies this type of thing. He told me that about 80% of people who buy a car and the car never gives them problems, repeat the brand (and that this number is going down as less and less people are “loyal” to brands), but that 97% of the people who buy a car and have a problem , but the problem is fixed in a way that satisfies the customer, he’ll repeat his purchase.
Seems like some car makers couldn’t care less.
Rave: Carmax. Yes, I said it.
I bought a 1996 Blazer in 2001, and it was in the shop about 12 times over the course of 2-3 years. I was at school at the time, and CarMax was always great to work with in reimbursing the shop I’d ended up using.
After I moved back home, I took it to the “dealership” for service, and was even more pleased. I never got the impression that they were making things up, and in one case (turn signal flasher can), they fixed something for free, under warranty, after another shop told me it would be a $600 fix.
The service department was always responsive and knowledgeable, and while it sometimes took awhile, I was always given a rental (again, covered). The excellence of the warranty service almost made up for the piece of crap car they sold me. :p
Rant: Scion Definitely an “our products don’t break, so what’s YOUR problem?” mentality. I have yet to actually get in for REPAIRS (I’ve had a dash light out since 2007), since all their online “make an appointment!” features do exactly nothing. Maybe this is just Schaumburg Scion (super high-volume), but their service department radiates such a feeling of “DERRRRR” that I stopped going there for oil changes…when I still had free ones left.
In fact, now that I think about it, I may just take the damn thing to CarMax.
1998 Mazda B2500SE, new: got it home from the dealer, found the spare tire was missing, they gave me a new one without hesitation. Over time, however, it developed horrendous squeaks in the suspension, and they couldn’t fix it.
2000 Sentra GXE, new: just before the powertrain warranty expired, the automatic transmission started to slip. Got a new transmission without hesitation.
2001 Sentra GXE, new: over time, the clutch started grinding like sandpaper. Dealer said it was normal, wouldn’t fix it; through various forums, found it was a common problem with a poorly-lubricated clutch part that most dealers would fix for free under warranty. Mine wouldn’t.
2004 Sentra SE-R Spec V: odd knocking at cruise developed before 8,000 miles, dealer pulled the intake and found the catalytic convertor disintegrating (a problem that was supposed to be solved on the 2004 model) and replaced the engine — and the new engine had the same knocking. Dealer said it must be normal. I speculated that it must be too hot an engine for the space/ventilation under the hood (only happened when hot, the radiator had two fans that were the noisiest I’ve ever had in a car to date) and so sold it.
2005 MPV SE: chronic windshield wiper problem — the blades keep slipping out — but otherwise no problems.
2008 Versa SL: battery started shorting out internally, replaced without complaint, but not at the dealer I wanted — the originating dealer had left on some random dealership alarm thingy and the other dealer wouldn’t touch an electrical problem until the thingy was removed. Took two trips to get it removed, and I just discovered a few days ago that they just tucked it deep inside the dash, still wired up. At least they replaced the battery successfully in one go.
The good:
2006 Mazda3 hatch, came with 4 years/50k miles warranty. So far I have 37k on it.
Under warranty and with no issue from the dealer (SMITH CAIRNS FORD Yonkers), replaced 2 lower control arms in front suspension and one engine mount that the dealer found out that it was leaking, I did not even noticed. All repairs were done quick and with no hassle.
The bad:
The clock is running slow since I got the car new, the display need to be replaced, I’m just lazy to go do it, it’s surprising that such low tech instrument will fail, they do have a TSB on it.
The rear brake pads needed replacement at 30k, the front are still good, very weird, none of my other cars will eat the rear quicker than the front.
The tires, Good Year RS/A (205/50-17) are the worst ever tires on earth! not only worn out at 25k, they never had any grip in snow, ice or rain, all season tire that was good only on dry, the only place this issue was covered is on internet blogs, Good Year fail to admit it’s a bad tire and still put on many cars on the market, I now have Dunlop sp sport signature that cost exactly half of the Good Year and can handle 500% better at any situation, I leave in NYC.
“The rear brake pads needed replacement at 30k, the front are still good, very weird, none of my other cars will eat the rear quicker than the front.”
I’ve seen some modern Hondas do that as well. The rear pads are much smaller and thinner than the fronts, apparently enough so that the rears wear more rapidly than the fronts.