With BMW’s newest Z4 hiking the roadster’s size and weight, Auto Motor und Sport says the Bangle-less Bavarians are planning a downsized Z2 Roadster for 2011 (planned European release). And they waste no time making Mazda Miata comparisons. The Z2 will be built on a downsized Z4 platform, but don’t expect a trademark straight six. It seems that nothing larger than a two liter four-banger will make it into this lightweight roadster. This translates into about 150 hp from a 1.8 liter four cylinder engine at the entry level, and up to 300 hp from a possible turbocharged M version of the two liter four. There’s even talk of a hybrid version. Active steering and suspension and dual-clutch transmissions will be standard, but despite all the techno-frippery the top will be fabric. Interestingly, Auto Motor und Sport lists the price in dollars rather than euros. And they say fewer than 30k of them will make a Z2 yours. Look for an auto show debut sometime in late 2010.
Aren’t all of the Z4 models produced in the US? If so, dollars kinda makes sense… maybe.
Curious to see what the BMW idea of light-weight is.
nathaniel: you said it.
I have two sincere hopes for this car:
1. Now that Chris Bangle has been assigned to the dustbin of automotive history, they will use someone of Henrik Fisker’s design sensibilities to shape a very svelte BMW-recognizable envelope around a BMW chassis which has equivalent aesthetic panache to at least the Honda S2000. The Z4 (in either it’s Bangled original form, or the current “improved” update)remains a high-water mark of tortured “design”, replete with oh-so-clever cutlines which trace a curve from the headlight bucket to the trailing edge of the door, and the abortion of “flame surfacing” which makes virtually all of Bangle’s designs so hard on the eyes.
2. While it will no doubt be very difficult to do in a German engineering studio, I fervently hope they will go out and buy a few MX-5’s to understand how Mazda retained simplicity and lightness as a key part of their last update.
BMW makes some wonderful 4-cylinder engines and no doubt with direct injection they can find power that Mazda is still seeking. They might even tempt me to replace my S2000 if the new model has the class of Fisker’s Aston Martin, Z-8, or even BMW’s own MINI. Flame-surfacing and sophomoric cut lines need not apply.
No BMW should be priced under US$30k. For any reason.
Modern BMW -> Lightweight:128i -> 2002.
They don’t get it. Really.
This will be heavy, underpowered, and mushy.
Meh. Nobody seems to understand that the Miata’s success or lack of has nothing to do with power or lack of it, handling or lack of it, styling or lack of it, and definitely nothing to do with numbers. The Miata is successful based on it’s ability to be the best British roadster that Leyland never made. MGs, Triumphs, Healeys… those cars weren’t about speed, performance, numbers, or measurements. BMW, Honda, GM, and even Porsche have found their own respective niches in the roadster market based on the traits listed above, but they have NEVER touched the MX-5 on the one that defines it: The FEEL of driving a wonderfully balanced classic roadster.
nathaniel :
“Curious to see what the BMW idea of light-weight is.”
If it comes in at under 3300lbs consider it a miracle.
@lzaffuto – I won’t argue with your statement on the FEEL of driving a Miata. Yet even in the heavier and more powerful S2000 lies the heart of a Miata.
And, were I in charge of Mazda, I would not ruffle one hair on the Miata’s fine head of hair. Yet I think they have missed an opportunity (rarely missed by the Germans) to charge premium bucks for more power. Imagine the 263 hp MazdaSpeed 3 engine in the MX-5… and it would still be a paragon of “wonderful balance”
BMW manages to serve the masters of both thrift and performance in their price class, with 3’ers which range from 120 hp to over 400 hp in their native Germany. The cheap ones are still fun to drive! For whatever reason, we’re denied the chance to do so here in the U.S.
@ellomdian – I share your fear that “lighter” will mean that the Z2 comes in at 2900 lbs.
Sounds like they’re making the original Z3. Go figure.
263hp in a small roadster is not “balanced”. It is heavily weighing on power. And to maintain handling balance with that newfound power you need better brakes. Better shocks. Better springs. Bigger and better sways. Heavier duty transmission and rear dif. And most importantly of all, better chassis bracing. Before you know it, you’re weighing in at 3000lbs+, which may be one hell of a performance car in the realm of a Boxster, 350Z, S2000, or Z4, but simply isn’t a Miata at all. Mazda themselves have said the next Miata will be smaller and weigh less than the NC, more like an NA, probably meaning the same or even less power from a smaller engine. It may not make sense to someone that doesn’t understand the car, but in a Miata, less IS more.
My son has the red Z3 pedal car. No, we didn’t go to the dealer for it. Garage sale for $20.
ellomdian :
Modern BMW -> Lightweight:128i -> 2002.
They don’t get it. Really.
I agree, but as a Miata owner I’m glad that Mazda will have some competition to push them to improve.
I had hoped that the presence of the Pontiac Solstice GXP would have goaded Mazda into finding a way to stuff their 2.3L turbo under the hood of the Miata.
I’m sure everyone who ever wanted a Miata that was carved out of granite will be happy at this news.
@lzaffuto –
If you have ever seen a “Monster” Miata, it is actually quite remarkable how much power you can put into this chassis despite the heavy addition of the Ford V8. I’d guess the MS3-powered Miata could be done at a weight addition of 200 pounds or less complete with better brakes and improved suspension. Remember that these are the guys who added a retractable hardtop for a low-low-low weight penalty of 85 lbs. And as to 263 hp in a Miata, I’m not dissing the basic model, but pointing out that the halo effect which BMW gets on their hi-perf models still extends into the modest 4-cylinder cars.
This might prevent people who don’t know any better from calling the MX-5 a “girl’s car.”
The Monster Miata’s are NAs, the newest of which is a 1997 model. They are lightweight because they do not need to meet current safety or emissions standards, and are worlds different from the modern RX-8 derived NC chassis. They are also ridiculously unbalanced in the power to handling department. I will find a quote for you, but the designer of the Miata has said that anything more than about 200hp is about the limit to a Miata in a traditional sense, because the Miata is not about power. If you want more, you don’t want a Miata, and there are plenty of other cars out there that will fit your needs.
I lost my respect for BMW a long time ago, when they decided to stop being an exclusive car company and decided to whore themselves to the lowest common denominator.
Now someone tell me here: has the Z4 been so successful that a Z2 is necessary? Even here in Miami one doesn’t see that many. But that doesn’t stop BMW from briging yet another useless and unwanted crap-mobile like this one to a less than enthused market. Watch it fail.
From what I’ve seen, the Z4 has been a failure. Despite excellent driving dynamics, a nice list of features and a reasonable price (compared to a Boxster), they have not met their sales target. Only six months after the coupe came out, our local BMW store contacted me to offer any one of three current MY coupes for $6k off MSRP, a number I would have loved had they made me the same offer on my ’07 335i.
I can only attribute this to the ugly factor of the Z4 and assume that they feel a lighter and more svelte Z2 would make better use of the South Carolina facility, as well as be more in keeping with the southward-bound economic situation.
@lzaffuto –
I agree with you that the Miata/MX-5 is not about power, but about basic finesse, and that it is an entirely delightful machine even with the 140 hp four cylinder. Just as the “base” Corvette gets a halo from the Z0-6 and ZR-1, or the 328 from the M3, so too would the base MX-5 be given the same marketing glow from a more powerful model. I happen to like the Mazda3 (three-pedal model) just fine as it sits, but the availability of the MazdaSpeed version only serves to make the basic model seem that much more spicy!
It sounds like we probably won’t get it until 2013. In the meantime, we’ll all pine for one, argue about whether it looks good or bad, argue about how it will make or break BMW, etc. When it finally comes out in the US, some will praise it while others will wonder what the hype is about, only to find out nobody buys or leases them because a bigger, better, faster 3-series can be leased for less money. I wonder if they’ll make a fastback like the Z Coupe.
edgett : Adrian van Hooydonk succeeded Mr Bangle. Adrian van Hooydonk was one of the individuals instrumental in the “flame surfacing” thing, so I wouldn’t count on that just yet.
I will look forward to see what comes. The new Z4 will push up in price-point leaving room in the lineup for a lower priced model. Remember that this car won’t need lots of horsepower to make it a successful car and I’m sure BMW figures if people want performance…they will move up to a Z4. A lightweight ‘fun’ roadster does not necessarily require high horsepower IMHO. I would also point out that historically, convertibles are not targeted towards high sales volume. As far as lightweight….we’ll see. I used to own a 2000 M Roadster (based on the Z3). Stock, it was pushing 0-60 in low 5’s and weighed 2900 lbs if I remember right, so they can do it. I had a couple minor mods that pushed it to 300 HP and it times it felt too light for the HP. But it was a blast!
An overpriced Miata. It’s what I’ve always wanted!
On a serious note, I’m excited about this. BMW can (did?) build good performance vehicles, and maybe some of their engineering abilities will shine through in the Z2. Oh, and I hope they don’t botch the styling …
edgett:
The Miata has 166 hp.
The new Z2 is going to be like the 1 series is to the 3 series convertible. I was seriously considering buying one of the them, and decided that the 1 series was the better choice because I could get the twin turbo I6 for less than the NA I6 of the 3 series. Also, I worried about the complex metal top becoming an issue.
So maybe people will decide a nicely optioned Z2 is a better choice than a stripper Z4 with it’s complex mechanical top.
P.S.: I decided not to buy either and leased a Miata instead while keeping my everyday car, for less money.
While the Z3 and first-generation Z4 were built in South Carolina, the current Z4 is built in Germany. With the replacement of the cloth top by a metal one, the current Z4 is both expensive and not a particularly great performer, even with the twin-turbo 3-liter. The prior version M roadster was significantly quicker.
I think the problem is that the current Z4 is an expensive two-seat “touring car” and the market for them is very, very small . . . and already well-occupied by Mercedes.
The original (4cylinder) Z3 was more or less targeted at the Miata. However, it was a little bigger, a little heavier and signficantly more expensive. So, with the 4-cylinder, that didn’t work. The addition of the 2.8 liter and 3 liter six solved the power problem but, as numerous commentators have noted, stuffing increasing amounts of power into the Z chassis (e.g. the M cars) increasingly showed the limitations of that chassis, only partially fixed by such tricks as the staggered wheel sizes.
For my money, the 2.8 liter Z3 (with, IIRC, 180 hp) is the best balanced car of the bunch, even though I own the 225 hp 3.0 liter model. My car does not have that “light on its feet” feel of the Miata; it wants to be “horsed” around the curves.
IIRC, my Z3 roadster comes in at 2700 lbs. Even with a lighter 4-cylinder engine, I wonder if BMW will be able to build something that weighs less but is acceptably rigid and meets current safety standards. Certainly, they will be able to beat the current Z4, which has gotten pretty porky.