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The Freep reports that Ford’s deal with the UAW, which could have signaled a way forward for all the Detroit automakers, has been rejected by two locals. Local 892 of Saline, Michigan, rejected modifications to the union contract with 76 percent opposing. Local 1219 of Lima, Ohio, also rejected the changes by a mere 14 votes. Two Michigan locals are known to have approved the changes, 900 of Wayne and 228 of Sterling Axle Plant.
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Should say ‘In a desperate bid to undermine what little sympathy they have with the public two UAW locals…’
It’s common perception that Ford is in the best position simply because it hasn’t (supposedly) asked for money at the pork trough. Yet.
But I’m not so sure that this patient isn’t on borrowed time. We should get the defibrilator charged and ready; it might be needed on very short notice.
# ZoomZoom :
March 6th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
But I’m not so sure that this patient isn’t on borrowed time. We should get the defibrilator charged and ready; it might be needed on very short notice.
I don’t think “patient” is a good analogy here.
I see it as a tired sports team, whose opponent keeps on injecting steroids during game with the help of referee.
In any game, one hair of an edge is all you need to win. But this is not a fair game any more.
Good job Local 892 and 1219. The parasite is bound and determined to kill the host. What a stupid thing to do! Rather than make some concessions for the greater good, you’re willing to just let the ship go down and risk it all. Just to be sure, you yokels in those 2 Locals do realize that if Ford (and GM, and Chrysler) go down, you don’t get any health care bennies at all, —along with no pay, no pension, no shit— right? Keep it up, the whole industry’s going down in flames, you might not have anything to fight for in a few months.
Has Gettelfinger shaved his porno mustache?
I’m at a loss with this.
Disclosure: I’m a dues paying union member, albeit, a union that has about as much to do with making cars as, well, my union (film editors, and I work in greater Hollywood, not Detroit). I’m not a “union guy,” and I don’t pay much attention to union politics, or organized labor in general.
But in my line of work, where jobs come and go on an annual, or even monthly basis, and where layoffs and hiatuses (hiatii?) are an all-too-common reality (even in the good times), and where given the current economic climate, and how relatively disposable our work is, I and so many of my coworkers–both union and staff–are at this point grateful to be working at all and at our same wages. How on earth can these two locals possibly even begin to consider voting AGAINT continuing to work? It’s truly unfathomable.
Maybe there’s something in the UAW history and culture I don’t get. But this is shocking.
The only conclusion I can draw is that people in these locals are not actually serious about continuing to work. These people are jackasses.
No? Do I miss something?
Hi, WSN:
Hmmm, I don’t get the sports team analogy, unless you’re referring to the Roman gladiators. And maybe GM and Chryco are the lions? Or maybe it’s the unions that are the lions?
I’m not getting it, unless you are trying to say that this is a situation where losing the game will result in death; which is where the gladiator analogy would work, and a football/baseball/basketball analogy would not.
ZoomZoom, I took it as meaning Ford’s competitors keep getting more and more cash from Uncle Sugar.
Why should the union make concessions? Everybody knows the spigots are open. Its now a race to get as much cash as you can before the hyperinflation sets in.
Un-freakin’-believable. The greed and arrogance of modern-day unions knows no bounds.
To quote the coroner on T.V. last night who was being held at gunpoint: I am REALLY going to enjoy weighing your liver.
@Ferrygeist: Could be a little bit of what you suggest, if you know the profiles of the plants, and the history of how some of them were cast-off from Ford and then re-integrated, some may just be due to local mentality …
Saline is a plastics plant (making instrument panels) which was spun-off to Visteon, then semi-reintegrated into Ford via the ACH entity (when Visteon began to wobble a few years ago), plan was to coerce key suppliers to take over the ACH plants from Ford at the earliest possible moment and then to close ACH. Saline was supposed to go to Johnson controls but the deal fell apart (so, it could be that the employees feel that their time clock is running faster than that for the rest of Ford.)
Lima is an Engine plant in a hardcore union town (although a ex-Limaite told me that the unions had driven most of the good jobs out of the town.)
Wayne represents either or both of the Ford plants there, Michigan Truck (home, or former home, I’m not sure if the move happened yet, of the Expedition and Navigator – this was supposed ot be converted to a car plant and the name was to change, or be merged with its sister plant next door, the home of the Focus (and future C-segment cards), called the Wayne Integrated Stamping and Assy Plant (so this is a plant with investment and a future product).
Sterling Axle, was something like Saline, out to Visteon (who had to do post-Ford restructuring), but instead of semi-in via ACH, axles were considered “core” again, and this became a regular Ford plant (so as long as Ford has RWD vehicles, Sterling has something of a future.)
Last numbers I saw had three plants saying no to the deal, but that was only @2400 no votes to over 10,000 yes votes so far.
The old story about the turtle and a scorpion riding on his back across the river….why did you sting me?…can’t help myself…it’s my nature.
There you have it in a nutshell – at the end of the day the UAW just can’t help it. They still think of themselves as exploited innocents, fighting for, well, everything.
No matter what fact or reality is presented, they’ve long since rationalized anything that might conflict with their self image.
Screw the unions and their antiquated beliefs. Greedy bastards.
One only has to watch the Detroit City council in action led by Monica Conyers (Nut job). It was on the national news how they shot down an attempt to fix-up Cobo Hall. Apparently they don’t want to give up any control of the facility to the suburbs, who are being asked to fund it. The auto show is beginning to look like a sad shadow of its past, much like the UAW.
For a limited time, I’m offering a free surgical procedure (lobotomy) to Ron G. of the UAW. It will be good for an immediate pop in his IQ.
Hurry though, my offer expires on any C11 deal with Uncle Sam.
LXbuilder
Thanks for bringing some reality and Truth to this article. Keep updating us.
OK!All in favour of financing your future health care with “Ford shares” say aye.
It will pass but don’t expect it to be a land slide.Before we kill Ron G. lets not lose site of the fact that he has only one vote.
Union hate zone here but for a bit of insight TTACers might consider that the rank and file have been hearing about GM/Ford/Chrysler lack of money since 1937. Every time it’s new contract time suddenly creative accounting at the Big 3 turns out empty corporate pockets.
Lack of trust by the workers of their employers goes right down to the shop floor. If you think about it the reason for a union to begin with is an institutionalised alienation of the workers from the corporate structure. The Big Three, before the coming of the unions, have always treated their hourly workers like an exploitable resource. In the poisoned corporate atmosphere lying is standard operating procedure.
If this were the fifties these guys would be called commie pinko bastards. Today the only name I can think that fits is stupid.
Yes – Let’s all attack those who voted against this. Since there has yet to be ONE MENTION from either TTaC or other posters on *what* they were voting on and might have not liked.
Ya know, maybe it was due to a provision, like forced to work overtime with no pay? Would you take a 50% pay cut and work 4 extra hours a day at your job?
Posts like this, with no info backing them up, are not meaningful in any way, just throwing gas on the already mob mentality people have against the UAW/Detroit.
It’s common perception that Ford is in the best position simply because it hasn’t (supposedly) asked for money at the pork trough. Yet.
But I’m not so sure that this patient isn’t on borrowed time. We should get the defibrilator charged and ready; it might be needed on very short notice.
Ford has asked for money from the government…9 billion that is ready when they need it. So in essence, the defibrillator is on and ready to go.
And don’t forget, Ford bailed themselves out in 2005 by mortgaging everything they own in exchange for 23 billion dollars.
And look at how much better they fared in February than GM did.
Ford is terminally ill just like GM and Chrysler. And silly niche products like the SHO and Raptor are not going to save them.
Bixby brings up a good point.Its next to impossible to explain the in plant culture to an outsider.
superbadd75 :
March 6th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
“Good job Local 892 and 1219. The parasite is bound and determined to kill the host. What a stupid thing to do! Rather than make some concessions for the greater good, you’re willing to just let the ship go down and risk it all. Just to be sure, you yokels in those 2 Locals do realize that if Ford (and GM, and Chrysler) go down, you don’t get any health care bennies at all, —along with no pay, no pension, no shit— right? Keep it up, the whole industry’s going down in flames, you might not have anything to fight for in a few months”
Very well said! They need to come to the realization that the auto makers cannot compete effectively while carrying the UAW ball and chain
around. The unions need to wake up and smell the CH11!
Has a “UAW Suicide Watch” series been started yet? Is it time?
Threatening your employer…How’s that working out for you?
Everyone in this Country has the option to Vote on any contract change, either Yes or No, otherwise you would not live in a Democratic Country, lets not condem what you might not know about it!
Everyone in this Country has the option to Vote on any contract change, either Yes or No, otherwise you would not live in a Democratic Country, lets not condem what you might not know about it!
Common misconception. We don’t live in a democratic country, we live in a Democratic Republic of a country. Do you go an vote on the laws that are being proposed? Not unless you are an elected official. If this was a democracy, there wouldn’t have been a bailout because a majority of the public was against it.
I’m not 100% sure how the UAW works.Can a couple of locals knock down a national agreement?In Canada?No its never happened.The CAW and GM are at the table right now.The constitution will not allow me a retiree to vote.But I can atend the meetings.
A lot of my fellow retirees, and active friends are in total denial.Thier not stupid or completly ignorant,just unimformed.It doesn’t make them bad people.I just wish folks woudn’t judge so harshly.
Before I signed my retirement papers.I put a plan
place.In the event of a 100% collapse of the GM pension,I won’t be living on dog food.A lot of Kraft dinner and some Hamburger Helper but no Alpo.A huge amount of my colleagues are no so fortunate.
Though I know its coming I shudder to think of the consequences.A stagering amount of lower middle class families will take a big step down on the social ladder.Make no mistake the socio economic impact will have devastating effect on the Canadian and US economy for quite some time.
A handfull of no votes,in a couple of small locals,really don’t mean squat in the big picture.
If this were the fifties these guys would be called commie pinko bastards.
I know that I’ve posted a link to this video before, but this discussion of government vs management vs labor is another example of how much we’ve forgotten what the “U” in “U.S” stands for:
This was made in the 1950s, and the message is just as relevant in 2009, although the enemy today isn’t necessarily Communism. It’s greed.
It’s sad, but the days of all working together to revive the ailing patient (in this case, the economy) are gone. Instead, years of mistrust, greed and looking out only for one’s own interests have created a stalemate.
Anyone that defends the UAW and their ignorant ways has their head in the sand. The UAW needs to dissolve immediately. It will not dissolve due to idiots like Gettelfinger and all of his minions across the country. Unions served their purpose. Fifty years ago…
Ferrygeist:
Maybe there’s something in the UAW history and culture I don’t get. But this is shocking.
The only conclusion I can draw is that people in these locals are not actually serious about continuing to work. These people are jackasses.
No? Do I miss something?
Your first sentence says it all. I grew up in and reside in a UAW town – and the sense of entitlement is quite appalling.
But don’t underestimate the UAW. Their economic reasoning may be on the ‘jackass’ level, but they know how to negotiate. The feds have opened their wallets to the automakers – these guys expect a taste.
In a sane world, Ford would simply shut the plants where the workers didn’t like the deal.
BrianCol: “Would you take a 50% pay cut and work 4 extra hours a day at your job?”
Ummm…YES.
I’d be looking for another job while I was doing that, (admittedly difficult right now) but I’d keep my current job going as long as possible.
It’s called “Bird in the hand” or “lengthening your runway” if you suspect the company is toast. I’ve had to do this 4 times since 2002 while I looked for a different, more stable industry.
But you betcha, I don’t call my employer’s bluff and/or make it more difficult for them to keep me on.
PickupMan
“Good job Local 892 and 1219. The parasite is bound and determined to kill the host.”
A parasite sucks hardest just before the host dies…It’s kinda like thermal runnaway in an electrical circuit.
What always amazes me is the self-destructive ideological commitment of so many UAW types.
If these locals climb on board and Ford prospers they win and are in a position to bargain for restoration of lost benefits over time. If Ford goes down as a result of being unable to gain concessions, any bargaining in the future will begin from a lower starting point with a weaker UAW.
esg : Has Gettelfinger shaved his porno mustache?
Let’s hope not. I don’t want to see the stretch marks.
@Briancol –
Since there has yet to be ONE MENTION from either TTaC or other posters on *what* they were voting on and might have not liked.
If you follow the link in the article, you can see what the concessions are (excerpted from the 2/25 article). I wish at my work that we had such ‘concessions’.
So what are the concessions?
Cost of living adjustments (COLA) have been suspended, break time has been limited to 40 minutes per eight hour shift and 50 minutes per 10 hour shift, direct deposit will become standard, performance bonuses will be suspended for entry-level workers and Christmas bonuses will be suspended for all. The Easter Monday vacation day has been suspended for the remainder of the contract.
Also, the Job Security Program (Jobs Bank) has been modified to eliminate “Protected Status” for workers.
@USluxuryman
Well Said
No, it wasn’t well said, which is likely part of the reason it got pulled.
The unions certainly can vote however they like, and we can all certainly give our opinion on their wisdom or lack of it.
Lastly, the fellow was starting from a common misconception – Wall Street was not deserving of government aid, far from it. The reason they were given aid is to keep them from dragging the rest of the country down with them. No one in the process said Wall St. deserved it, so if the auto guys want to draw a parallel they should stick to the (in my opinion vapid) jobs argument.
OK, let’s see.
Bondholders won’t budge.
Management can’t or is incapable of change.
Unions say NO.
Dealers want a spot at the TARP trough.
Only C11 can cut this gordian knot.
You can assume that my post wasn’t well said, and was pulled because it wasn’t factual, if you want! However, consider the fact that LABOR is ONLY 10% of the cost of producing these vehicles! We never said that you felt Wall Street deserves the BILLIONS that they have received, with little or no oversight! Have you looked at the Executives and CEO’s pay at Toyota and Honda compared to the Big Three and Wall Street?? Did the price of your Cars and Trucks go down when the work was out-sourced? We can’t sell our Cars/Trucks in other Countries the way that they do here! Now CHINA has to loan us money, as POOR as China was, because we out-sourced our MANUFACTURING! Wall Street and the Banks stole your 401-K money and the value from your HOMES! Keep buying foreign cars and worrying about the Jobs Bank/Overtime rules/Holiday Pay, while you lose everything the UNIONS fought for you to get without sacrifice! How many more of you have to lose your Homes, Jobs,Cars,Health Care, and Pensions before you wake up and see who stole your MONEY? We will spend 3 TRILLION to let the Wall Street off-the-hook! And you are worried about less than 30 Billion so far, going to GM and Chrysler, as many jobs as we provide WORLD-WIDE? I will fight for my Family and Community, and am willing to lose my BS material things before I allow myself to be raped without a fight! I grew up without a lot of extravagances; I can eat crackers and peanut butter like some Retirees have to do! Can you? I can move back to the Inner-City and be comfortable, can you? When you lose your Home, or can’t retire, there is a place for all of us in the ghettos or shelters! We can ALL GO DOWN TOGETHER! We are half-way there already! Health-Care expenses are the NUMBER ONE cause of Bankruptcy!
The “Labor is only 10%…” statistic is widely used however is typically taken out of context.
Labor is actually the highest single cost in typical manufacturing. It is only at the final assembly stage in which labor makes up approx 10% of the costs.
There is labor costs in manufacturing/processing the raw materials, component manufacture, sub assembly, etc. It adds up.
BTW the reason “We can’t sell our Cars/Trucks in other Countries …” is that instead of exporting, domestic manufacturers opened up separate, wholly owned divisions. Like Ford of Europe, Opal, GM Brazil, SAIC.
Why would they do this? Well for starters there is not much of a demand for purpose built North American style cars in most other countries – Do you really need a Hummer in Japan? Have you seen the streets over there? Most significantly in many foreign markets US union level wage costs cannot be passed on to the consumer. The same thing happened domestically when other competitors entered the North American market the big 3 no longer had exclusive pricing power.
Lastly, we will not all go down together. I, like many others have an education and a skill set – and that’s what pays the bills, not a collective agreement. Yes, my income may get indirectly reduced as the economy contracts, however so will my cost basis as I no longer have to compete with you for goods and services.
You overlook the fact the the economy is not stopping, rather it is the rate of growth that is slowing. 90% of North America still has jobs. Unfortunately, (for you) the demand for semi skilled labor at upper middle class pay rates has in fact, stopped. This, combined with loss of organized labor leverage means that it might be time to sell that second jet ski.
US,
It’s no assumption that your post was poorly written, you would not have gotten past freshmen year at my university writing like that. I am not going to read it again, nor anything past the first couple lines of your new one to argue with you. Your continued over use of the exclamation mark is just too painful (among other things). I am all for being casual and dismissive and trying to understand a writer’s intent. I make my own mistakes, but if there is any boundary, you crossed it.
While I understand your frustration and disappointment, I also understand why you are in the position you are in. I have done plenty of business in Detroit. Let me tell you the most important thing you will hear in this life – It’s your own fault. The good news is you can recover, and life will go on.
Once you realize that you bought a pig in a poke, I hope you decide to take charge of your new life, and not again become dependent on people who do not deserve your trust.