Despite General Motors’ epic slide into Chapter 11, or perhaps because of it, its defenders are busy re-writing history. It’s the Poseidon Adventure redux: a huge, well-run ship overwhelmed by a sudden, terrible force of nature. Except this ship will eventually right itself. In truth, GM really is the Titanic: a badly built vessel helmed by men blinded by short-term greed and long-term hubris headed for Davey Jones’ locker. Make no mistake: GM CEO Rick Wagoner had the chance to return GM to dry dock, repair the company’s flaws, and make it across turbulent seas. But then Wagoner is a GM lifer—his cowardice is both genetic and institutional. What’s the mainstream media’s excuse?
This is the day after GM’s auditors told the world that the automaker may not be a “going concern.” It’s also the day the MSM has finally come to grips with GM’s utter ruination at the hands of its tacitly incompetent management. Or not.
For example, Daniel Howes’ column in the Detroit News is the same as it ever was. Although Howes chastises “the skeptics, the deniers and the deluded” for not facing the truth about GM, and his tone has switched from enthusiastic cheerleader to horrified bystander, he still believes that GM has a future– under Uncle Sam’s taxpayer supported wing.
“[The auditors’ report] also should remind the White House just how perilous a GM failure could be for their friends in labor, voters in the industrial Midwest and a fragile national economy.”
As John McEnroe used to say (before CBS signed his paychecks), you CANNOT be serious. Mr. Howes has been carrying the can/pouring the Kool-Aid/providing aid and succor/kissing the ass of these GM C11 deniers for years. This morning’s minimum opus proves he still doesn’t get it: GM is toast.
It’s bizarre. An MSM industry insider reckons the auditors’ report declaring GM kaput will help his hometown heroes confront the reality of GM’s bottom line—so they can avoid the reality of GM’s bottom line. Get out of denial to jump back in. At the taxpayer’s expense. Without anything remotely resembling a coherent and believable “return to viability” plan.
It may arrive as a piercing glimpse into the obvious, but even after GM’s “we’re NSFWed” SEC filing, the agenda-driven MSM continues to view GM’s death throes through the prism of their pre-existing prejudice.
NPR’s The Takeaway interviewed me this morning about the “automotive bubble.” Host John Hockenberry seemed more concerned with the Obama Administration’s electric car future than the fact that “big bad” GM (as opposed to naughty truck-building Toyota) is going away.
Sad but true: MSM’s failure to “move the needle” in its understanding and presentation of the scope, scale and immutability of GM’s perils has enabled the company’s outrageous call on the public purse. In fact, it’s increasingly clear that both GM and the MSM see down as the new up. The worse the news, the greater the justification for the feds to hang another multi-billion dollar bag on Motown’s IV pole.
Just this morning, GM admitted that its request for an additional $30B federal “loan”—on top of the $13.4B already pissed away—won’t be enough to dig it out of its hole. You heard right. Please sir, may I have some more? (As spoken by Frank L. “Bobo” Marrapese Jr.) There’s no way GM could have gone public with this admission without a mostly complacent MSM. In a world with a properly informed and skeptical media, GM’s begging bowl would have been smashed to pieces.
I repeat: where is the media reporting on this fresh, unsustainable assault on taxpayer largesse? In the Detroit Free Press’ case, they’re chewing the fat with GM’s CFO. The Freep reports that Ray Young claims to be “monitoring the situation closely.” Not to worry; Young had “planned for a weak first quarter.” Huh. Does that mean GM intentionally low-balled their initial suckle request?
CNNMoney isn’t bothered. The simply parrot GM’s PR spinmeister’s Fastlane Blog defense of the company’s long term future. The New York Times also isn’t interested in ripping GM a new one. “The [SEC] announcement does not mean bankruptcy is imminent. But it underscores how difficult it will be for GM to successfully complete the restructuring plan that it filed with the Treasury Department last month.”
Hang on . . . didn’t Young just say GM can’t complete their restructuring plan as written?
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal continues its descent into the journalistic abyss. Once again, they’re basing a story on “a person close the matter.” This time he’s saying GM’s open to a government-sponsored C11. Yeah right.
When GM finally files for C11, the MSM will continue the spin. They won’t even blink when GM asks for tens of billions for debtor-in-possession financing. The tough questions—which should have been asked five years ago—will once again go unasked.
Too big to fail? As far as the media’s concerned, the answer’s yes. Even when it’s no.
The messier GM’s collapse, the better for the media and its political allies. If GM had taken the smarter route to solvency years ago, there wouldn’t have been nearly as much propaganda material for rallying the public behind the “too big to fail” bailout garbage.
Remember: None of this corporate welfare is about saving jobs or the economy, it’s about the rapid spread of government control.
Beyond unbelievable. As a businessman (and taxpayer) I don’t have a rooting interest. I want well run, ethical companies that are good corporate citizens. I think this is the distinction between me and the MSM. Some companies win and some lose. I don’t care how it breaks. THEY have a rooting interest! Stay out of my pocket and let the free market decide. GM IS bankrupt! What is left to discuss besides how best to minimize the damage to the economy?
GM stock down 24% today.
It’s over! Anyone willing to rush in and buy at this low low low price of 1.41? Then try to see if it goes up to 1.60 again to make 34059405904 thousands??
Bye GM. It’s taken 2 decades for karma to get you, but this is what you get for selling my mom 2 clunkers in the 80’s and 90’s.
In all honesty, why would we expect anything different from the MSM when we could be hearing about such hot topics as Octomom and Michelle Obama’s arms?
I was surprised to read that the auditors said that even WITH the rest of the $30B that GM wouldn’t be a going concern without “consumers purchasing our products in substantially higher volumes.” Yet we have all noted that nothing in any of their plans deals with increasing volume or demand, only cutting costs! I guess the market fairy is just going to pop up and make it all OK.
Also curious, compared to December when the “B” word was verboten: “The word “bankruptcy” appears in G.M.’s annual report 126 times. Still, G.M. insisted that it could be viable.”
(Quotes from NY Times article this morning)
I find your comparison unfair. To the Titanic.
danms6
In all honesty, why would we expect anything different from the MSM when we could be hearing about such hot topics as Octomom and Michelle Obama’s arms?
or the damn dog or the swing set for Sasha and the other one
Everyone is being gutless about this.
GM is still in the Dow 30; it isn’t even worth a billion dollars anymore. As of right now the company begging for $30 billion is worth $787 million.
GM shouldn’t be in the Dow 30, it shouldn’t be in the S&P 500, and it should probably be delisted from the NYSE.
If the financial industry isn’t going to be honest and face reality regarding this company then the mainstream media can hardly be expected to.
The Wall Street Journal has at least been vigorously callign for Chapter 11 in its editorials, even if it has made some false, poorly sourced predictions regarding whether it will occur (pot calling the kettle black a little bit?).
CNBC, on the other hand, is complete garbage, but that’s nothing new, it always has been.
Just a trivial little question, who’s the chick in the pic?
It’s not a test, I don’t know, and I seek enlightenment. TIA.
Actually, the Titanic was an extremely well built ship for its time.
It had an innovative design which allowed it to carry enough lifeboats for everyone. However, White Star decided to only fit 16, the minimum allowed by law.
It was an excellent vessel run by men blinded by short-term greed and long-term hubris,just as GM is acompany capable of giving us the new Malibu but whose management conspires to give us the Pontiac G3.
@ Kix,
I think that’s Jennifer Granholm, the ex-Disney employee who is the governor of MI.
She’s a keeper, ain’t she?
Yes,that is Granholm. Who really isn’t that bad. She does the best with the hand dealt her. I was going to say “I wouldn’t want her job.” But, since I have no job, I would take it.
PaulieWalnut
The Titanic was recently proved to have a crap weld right down the middle, which split in two under pressure. Also, many of the bolts were badly fabricated and improperly installed. Oh, and the propeller design was old-fashioned. In fact, if they’d accelerated, they might have missed the berg. Etc.
Maybe it’s too late now for even a government backed DIP C11. I knew GM was in worse shape then Chrysler, but I didn’t know it was this bad. But in retrospect it makes sense. GM’s footprint was to big to sustain with it’s market share. We all knew that. But the Feds may be starting to realize that GM’s footprint is too big for even them to sustain. In other words a never ending black hole for money. Remember what I said about 3 guys in a lifeboat? Limited food and water and one of the three is big (GM) and requires more of that food and water to survive. Somebody may have to go so that the others can live.
Maybe some part of GM will live on. Maybe part of GM will be bought at auction. Maybe Cadillac or the trucks will show up in someone elses portfolio. Maybe the Saturn dealers will find some love (but will they be called “Saturn”?).
jkross22 :
seanx37 :
Do you live in Michigan with Gov. Grandholm ? I do ! And trust me, the SECOND she is out of office, Michigan will improve !
If you think she’s great, offer her a job in your state ! I’ll even help pack up and move !
Polishdon- I’ll pitch in on the U-haul rental!
Who has a pick up and a hand truck?
Bunter
Robert, the Titanic was not welded. Electo-welding was first employed on the German Panzerschiffen aka the pocket battleships. The Titanic was of riveted plate construction. There were no bolts. Hitting the iceberg buckled the plates and caused water to get in. The water tight compartments were anything but, as they did not have a top bulkhead.
GM is dead. It cannot survive. I worked for them and the corporate culture is rotten to the core. What other company in the world would allow a man so obviously incompetent as Red Ink Rick be the CEO as long as he has.
On CBC’s As it Happens last night I heard a GM apologist shilling that “everything has changed. We are introducing small cars.” Yeah, right, where are they? GM has totally missed the boat. Even in USA 35% of the market is small cars, it is more than 50% here in Canuckistancommieland (where not a bank has any problem, I might add). GM completely gave up on that market. It handed it to Toyota and Honda on a Gold Platter.
Even deeper is a problem in American psychology. Really, if America wants to get out of this mess it is going to have to realise that what started with Regan in 1981 and ended with Bush six weeks ago isn’t working. When banks are busting left, right and centre, things aren’t working. When millions can’t afford to see a doctor, things aren’t working. GM’s departure is only symptomatic of a larger problem in America, namely that karma has been run over by political dogma.
Is America ready to make the psychological leap and clean house? I am not so sure it is. But you know, we may not have as many Hummers here in Soviet Canuckistan but we are sure a lot better off that practically any G-20 nation. Is this success accidental? Hardly.
Wake up America, if you don’t you’ll go the way of the Romans. The unraveling of American power is happening right now and it is up to you guys to make the enormous leap away from right wing corporatist nonsense you have been fed, and willingly lapped up for the last 28 years.
Bush’s cabinet was full of car and oil men.
And again, I doubt that America can make the leap to the 21st century. Heck, Bush did all the could do the keep America out of the 20th.
Despite it’s flaws the Titanic went down with a modicum of class. String quartet and all.
Gm refuses to believe there is a even a slight listing.
We are pouring money into a hole in the ocean and nothing will save it.
Bite the bullet let is sink in it’s stink.
What, Canucknucklehead?
But but, I’ve been told it was the Obama recession!
/snark
<em
Too big to fail? As far as the media’s concerned, the answer’s yes. Even when it’s no.
My fear is that GM is too big to rescue and the massive black hole for cash will continue without end. This could drag down the US economy, worsen and lengthen the recession and create so much backlash against GM that sales and market-share will never recover.
My guess is the Obama administration and Congress will continue to bail GM out simply because their failure would only make any attempts at economic recovery that much more difficult. What should be done is to force GM into Ch. 11 which would among other things allow them to shed the excess dealers and brands necessary to give them a crack at survival. Although no one can be blamed for GM’s situation other than themselves the current car market’s weak demand makes it impossible for any manufacturer to be profitable. Until sales return to some semblance of normal it doesn’t matter what GM or any other manufacturer does, they will lose money in N.A.
The union in Canada still doesn’t get it – here’s an article full of mockable content :
Union leaders begin talks with GM of Canada
Ken Lewenza is still in a dream world where all GM needs are more loans, so that things can get back to “normal”. Too many gut-busting quotes in this MSM crapfest to list here, but here is my favorite :
“The CAW has committed itself to staying cost competitive with United Auto Workers plants in the United States, although Lewenza said he doesn’t expect to make any concessions on wages or benefits.”
How the NSFW does he think they will become cost competitive without concessions? Pixie dust and unicorn poop?
WRT the Titanic. Unless I am very much mistaken it recent analysis showed that the steel in the Titanic was not of particularly good quality. It had too much (or too little) of something and as a result was quite brittle.
Interestingly enough, there is another interesting analogy between the Titanic and GM. During it’s construction the workers went on strike, allowing the exposed hull to rust. When they finally returned, they spent a lot of time simply grinding off, the combined weight of which has been estimated to have weighed many TONS.
Well, Cannucknucklehead, all I can say is there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the party of Americans you just trashed with your comments, and the party which had been in control over much (most?) of the 28 years you mentioned, since the real power players in the United States, is the Congress and Senate. Controlled often as not, by Dummycrats.
What you’re essentially saying, if I can read between the lines, is that we Americans can’t manage to run our own country and yet you malign your own country by calling it socialist (which it is), then say we should follow socialism? Am I right?
Lord knows a lot of us have had a stomach full of socialism, do-goodism, elitism, neo-fascism (in the disguise of the two major parties and main stream media colluding with the men behind the curtain pulling the levers) and once SOCIALISM is the ruination of this country, you’ll find out that much of Canada’s well-being was actually tied up with the neighboring country to the south.
In other words, when you are a pretty good sized Elk, but sleep on the wall side of the bed with Rhino, and the Rhino turns over in bed – you’re liable to get squashed.
Here’s what socialism means to most thinking folks:
The little red hen called all of her Obama ‘Stimulus’-supporting neighbors together and said,
“If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?”
“Not I,” said the cow.
“Not I,” said the duck.
“Not I,” said the pig.
“Not I,” said the goose.
“Then I will do it by myself,” said the little red hen, and so she did. The wheat grew very
tall and ripened into golden grain.
“Who will help me reap my wheat?” asked the little red hen.
“Not I,” said the duck.
“Out of my classification,” said the pig.
“I’d lose my seniority,” said the cow.
“I’d lose my unemployment compensation,” said the goose.
“Then I will do it by myself,” said the little red hen, and so she did. At last it came time to bake the bread.
“Who will help me bake the bread?” asked the little red hen.
“That would be overtime for me,” said the cow.
“I’d lose my welfare benefits,” said the duck.
“I’m a dropout and never learned how,” said the pig.
“If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,” said the goose.
“Then I will do it by myself,” said the little red hen.
She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, “No, I shall eat all five loaves.”
“Excess profits!” cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi)
“Capitalist leech!” screamed the duck. (Barbara Boxer)
“I demand equal rights!” yelled the goose. (Jesse Jackson)
The pig just grunted in disdain. (Ted Kennedy)
And they all painted ‘Unfair!’ picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.
Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen, “You must not be so
greedy.”
“But I earned the bread,” said the little red hen.
“Exactly,” said Barack the farmer. “That is what makes our free enterprise system
so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.”
And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, “I
am grateful, for now I truly understand.”
But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the ‘party’ and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. ‘Fairness’ had been established.
Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared…so long as there was free bread that ‘the rich’ were paying for.
EPILOGUE
Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.
Hillary got $8 million for hers.
That’s $20 million for the memories from two people, who for eight years, repeatedly testified, under oath, that they couldn’t remember anything.
IS THIS A GREAT BARNYARD OR WHAT?
IN GOD WE TRUST!!!
PS Granholm is an @ss. I’ve got access to a dolly and I’ve got a trailer, and my pal with the dolly has a trailer.
The sooner she leaves Michigan, the better.
Perhaps just perhaps one day, once the desert area (i.e. Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, west Texas) runs out of water (how much water does it take to make a gallon of ethanol, again?), and people can’t live there any more, folks will start to move back to where water is. As in – Wisconsin. Minnesota. MICHIGAN. Indiana. Ohio.
Of course, you’ll have to get used to driving to work in -11 degrees F (Monday), – 9 degrees F (Tuesday) and so forth. For months on end.
Don’t worry. You’ll toughen up. Maybe.
@Menno: +1
Your parable will annoy all the leftists, because they cannot dispute the immutable logic contained therein….
In some ways the hicks in Canada ARE more enlightened than we Americans. They’ve privatized their air traffic control system, largely privatized their social security system, and they avoided market-distorting Fannie Mae government intrusions in housing. That’s what’s funny, Canadians HAVE done a few things right, but no Canadian I’ve ever seen seems to recognize what those things are.
Sure, Canada is a total nonentity, but we could learn something from their progressively free-market philosophies, what there is of it. Nevertheless, it’s kind of funny in a macabre way how a recession in the U.S. makes the Canadian economy tank even worse, as it is now.
Tha fact is that the MSM is in the same boat. They cannot possibly be frank – they must have GM be given unrestrained handouts – for this is what they themselves will be lining up for. For example, we need a NYT deathwatch, or bailout watch or whatever, for it is coming down the pike.
@ menno:
Granholm is definitely in way, way over her head.
I actually hope the transplants don’t move back to the Great Lakes region. The existing population already places significant strain on the area’s water resources. I’d also argue the Great Lakes states are already plenty crowded. No need to add more bad drivers to the roadways!
menno, did you get so drunk on New Years Eve 1999 that you went into a coma and just woke up? Because you seem to have no knowledge of the past eight years.
Wow, do I have a lot to tell you! You better sit down…
Why are you mad so many people bought the Clinton’s books? I thought you believed in The Free Market™?
rochskier, I didn’t mean the entire population of the western desert US, I meant more along the lines of yet another reversal in population movement.
1930: Oklahoma to California.
1980: Michigan to Texas.
2009: Michigan to anywhere but Michigan and California to anywhere but California.
2020? Some folks back to Michigan?
Michigan has (had?) something like 9 million people compared to 70 million people in Great Britain, which is a similar size. Great Britain is surrounded by salt water. They don’t have any de-salinization water plants, as do the people in arab lands. Yet they manage.
I think if push came to shove, Michigan could easily house 10 or 12 million.
Hell, my buddy has had a house up for sale for 3 years with NOT ONE PERSON LOOKING AT IT IN 3 YEARS. And he’s not alone.
Hi BDB, no I’ve been unfortunately very awake over the past 8 years and watched our civil rights, privileges and Constitution trashed at an ever increasing rate, but while I’m certainly NOT Repugnican, I have to be truthful in things other than autos and say – over the past two years with Dummycrats in effective control, it hasn’t gotten one whit better. Has it, really?
A pox on both of their houses.
With a call sign of “Menno”, did you think I drink?! ;oP
Old-Boy-Network-ism?
Soft-pedaling to ensure the next GMC Sierra ad doesn’t get pulled over CEO-crankiness?
@NickR: Too Much Carbon?
@menno: Hilarious!
+The Titanic also had abnormally bad control surfaces for her size and couldn’t turn worth crap.
-There you go: bad design, cheap shortcuts, can’t corner, crappy build … hmmm
Do Waggoner and the Bolt-Tighteners have family roots back in the UK?
@cwp is right though, GM and the B-Ts make even the welders for the Thresher look like consummate pros.
Michigan will end up as Vermont West, a vacation spot/retirement home for rich yuppies from Chicagoland the same way Vermont is for people from New York City. That is if they play their cards right.
The worst case scenario is Michigan becomes Appalachia North.
Menno:
Before this year Democrats had a bare-bones majority in the House, a one vote majority in the Senate with the highest rate of filibusters by the minority party in American history, and a President of the opposite party who could veto anything they did. That isn’t “effective control”.
BDB: You have to agree, though, that as far as the repugnicans are concerned, W was for all intents and purposes no different than a dummycrat. After all, at the end of the day (and near the end of his miserable administration), he tossed ‘conservatism’ completely over the side along with anything he thought was (as you say) ‘free market’ ideals by using taxpayer monies (and debt thrown onto our children, grand children, great grandchildren and so on) to ‘help out’ the frausters, banksters, politicos, corruptists, corporatists, elitists of both parties and essentially handed a signed blank check to a bunch of people with the self-control of drunken teenagers.
I take a broader picture and regard virtually ALL of the two major parties as seditious, treasonous and evil. Results speak volumes, words are cheap.
As for Michigan, yes, right now it is pretty close to appalachia north. Hopefully it won’t become Vermont west. Instead, perhaps Michigan will find some way to move forward.
Just wish we could convince Ohio to take everthing from about Lansing east and south, and absorb it, though…
My moms side of the family is from Delaware and they got off of being dependent on blue collar manufacturing by bringing in banks and financial institutions.
Of course that isn’t working out so well for them currently, either.
…did you get so drunk on New Years Eve 1999 that you went into a coma and just woke up? Because you seem to have no knowledge of the past eight years.
The right wingers are busy rewriting history. They want everyone to forget that the Repubs took control in 1994 and that George “Hoover” Bush and the rest of his conservatives were more interested in tilting the playing field toward their corporate masters than in creating a level field where real free markets could exist.
Now they are hopping mad that money is being spent to clean up their disaster. Yup, after setting the house on fire they are angry that we have to pay for water to put the fire out. They would rather have the whole house burn down to the ground while they cry crocodile tears about the faux free market that got us into this situation.
@Menno
Sorry but socialism doesn’t work like that.
In the UK we have the National Health Service. A system which is socialism at its purest.
Everyone pays taxes in and everyone gets a basic standard of health care. Yes, you will get people who try to rip the system off, but on the whole it works well.
I wouldn’t swap the NHS for any other health system in the world.
Socialism is about people working together.
Like I say, you’ll always get people trying to rip the system off, but don’t you have people using unethical tactics in capitalism?
Anyway, back to GM.
As hypocritical as it may seem, I oppose the bailouts to GM for one reason and one reason only.
GM have done nothing to warrant help (unlike Ford). They’ve squandered every chance to turn their business around.
Now that the auditors have stated that GM may not be a viable business, there’s nowhere to turn for GM.
The government is at fault here, too. They should have given the bailouts with proper conditions (e.g forced change of management, etc). To make GM REALLY think if they needed the bailout.
Hi Katie, I’ve always enjoyed our conversations…
I’ve lived in the UK (9 years, 7 years on the British economy, 2 as a GI on the US economy).
I honestly can’t say that the NHS is any better than the broken system we have here now; it’s just “different”.
I will go so far as to say that it’s immoral – in my opinion – to have a medical system (which is supposedly to help the health of people) centered around profits first, as in the US.
Gee now I sound like a socialist (NOT). People confuse left and right with right and wrong all the time.
I get trashed by lefties and righties all the time but I give as good as I take, because I think that both left & right are just as crappy as one another.
How about going back to basics and the Constitution? Or in the case of the UK, back to the basic ideals of the Magna Carta and other similar papers?
Anyway, re: GM, I fully agree with you, Katie.
Which brings us back full circle; just exactly why should those of us who are responsible, bail out the incompetent, the layabout lazy, the users, the skimmers (of cream/money off the top), the banking and stock market fraudsters, and the folks who didn’t have the self-control to do due diligence to know just how much mortgage they could really afford?
It’ll all “fix itself” when the whole shebang comes crashing down around our ears.
Or, as your Margaret Thatcher so aptly put it, “Socialism works fine until you run out of other people’s money to use.”
BTW, I loathed Margaret Thatcher because she was nearly my personal ruination. We had the only sort of mortgage available in the UK – a variable rate mortgage. She had an election coming up – her Chancellor of the Exchequer (in control of interest rates, for those not in the know on this scenario) kept dropping interest rates to “heat up the economy” in order to better ensure her re-election. As soon as she was re-elected, just like a massive rubber band, the interest rates skyrocketed. It was VERY tough to dry to pay 300% more money for petrol than I was used to; virtually 200% more for eveything else compared to what I was used to (except milk & bread, oddly); and then to have our house payment go up about 6 times over 2 years nearly broke our backs… We had to take in a lodger to make ends meet. And drive Ladas. Unfortunately, we’d come into the country just as interest rates had been declining and got caught up in the upswing – there was really no way I could have forseen it happening. Nor did my colleagues, who were at Standard Life and sold annuities, etc. so supposedly were “in the know”.
Believe me, when we moved back to the US, NO WAY was I going to take a variable rate mortgage which was offered. Fixed rate, or nothing.
Even the most uninformed among the electorate is waking up to the fact this bailout is more about the union and potential votes than about GM making and selling cars we want to buy.
The US auto industry has become a defacto extension of government.
Oddly enough, Qwerty, for a group of people who claim their opposites are “rewriting history”, your side seems to have a lot of selective memory. Remember, I’m a Constitutionalist; so I’m quite happy to throw appropriate and true statements at BOTH of you lefties as well as righties.
Interestingly and oddly enough (truth being stranger than fiction), it was the democrats which started the process of this fiscal melt-down by ‘demanding’ that ‘everyone’ had access to mortgages ‘fairly’. As in, whether they could pay them off or not. Started slowly under CARTER, accelerated under CLINTON, and was not shut down by the secret Rino BUSHES.
To be fair, a lot of what has happened also stems from removing many oversights and controls over the greed and averice of the bankster/wall street gangs (and I use that term advisedly), by the Republicans.
Plenty of blame to go around.
Perhaps instead of the left & right pointing fingers at each other, it’d be better to sit down, shut up and listen to those of us who’ve been frustrated near to death over 30 years or more, essentially crying in the wilderness “neither of these parties is doing anything good for the PEOPLE. Wake up!”
As for GM, well, it seems like GM is only a microcosm of what is happening to the US.
Epic fail.
But Mr Menno,
Don’t you find it slightly interesting that in the US (the most unabashedly capitalist country in the world) everyone’s a capitalist….until they get into trouble, then, suddenly, everyone sees the light and beauty in socialism…?
It kind of makes the US look ridiculous and undermines the US the next time they preach about the wonders of capitalism.
Well, that’s their look out…not mine.
Remember: None of this corporate welfare is about saving jobs or the economy, it’s about the rapid spread of government control
I don’t think so. I don’t think the government has any control of GM. I wish they did. I wish they’d grow a spine, make specific demands, and actually hold management accountable to those demands.
I think you’d see a “Whole New GM” if there was some penalty (like, say, nationalization and/or a wholesale gutting of management and subsequent independent stewardship). The problem is that no one in American government has anything remotely resembling the guts to do that. Oh, they’ll shovel money at the problem and “arrange” mergers, but direct action terrifies representatives, executives and civil servants because they’d thusly be responsible.
The problem isn’t control. It’s exactly the opposite.
Interestingly and oddly enough (truth being stranger than fiction), it was the democrats which started the process of this fiscal melt-down by ‘demanding’ that ‘everyone’ had access to mortgages ‘fairly’. As in, whether they could pay them off or not.
Oh, the old blame the minorities ploy. It happens in every economic downturn. They used to blame the Irish. Then they blamed the Italians. Then they blamed the Jews, Now it’s generic, scary brown people.
80% of the sub-prime loans that were handed out were given by institutions that were not subject to the CRA. Fact. Brown people or minorities or whatever code words that the conservatives want to employ were not the cause of the sub-prime meltdown. Neither was a concern about fairness. Bad loans were written for one reason and one reason only: Because that’s how the crooks throughout the mortgate industry, from the mortgage brokers at the bottom to the hedge fund managers at the top, made their money. The loans were given out because there were huge short term gains to be made and the money was so good that the long term consequences not only did not matter, they would be born by others. Who was loaned money did not matter; they were just tools used to effect the biggest con in history. It was systemic corruption, and the situation can be directly traced to Ayn Rand worshippers who confuse free markets with markets free of regulation.
Relax, GM can come back by convincing Octomom to name her kids for GM’s brands and equipping them all with OnStar.
Granmole could be the Canadian sales manager for Oldsmobile. Anything to get her out of Michigan – create a job that doesn’t exist. Works for me.
Well, menno, your posts illustrate my points exactly. Get the fiddles.
General Motors is done for, as is Chrysler, probably Ford, Opel, SAAB, Vauxhall et al.
It’s too late. It’s been too late for a decade, ‘cept nobody wanted to admit it. Bill Ford finally saw the light and hired Alan Mullaly, but it’s too late for Ford too, as the economic meltdown will wipe out Ford in it’s wake.
Red Ink Rick has now earned his place in history as the most incompetent CEO ever to helm a Fortune 500 company.
Cerberus has now been exposed as being no more wise than any other fund manager; I guess they’ve been lucky in the past.
Bob Nardelli has been exposed as the clown he really is.
Politicians in virtually every country have done nothing but reinforce the view that the public has of them as bumbling do-nothings.
Why this isn’t a wake-up call to every thinking man and woman is beyond me. We should be rising up in the streets and houses of government demanding an end to the corruption and incompetence of government.
When it comes to whom is to blame, look no further than the mirror. It was ourselves who said and did nothing while the engines of capitalism were allowed to run rampant with no watchdog or regulation. It was ourselves who borrowed every last available dime we could, and then defaulted on the lot.
I have saved my money and not lived beyond my means. I put away a nest-egg for when I retire. I carry no debt other than a small remainder of my mortgage. I did without so my children could further their education. I will probably have to support my elderly parents as their retirement savings vanish in the next few years. I have worked hard my entire life and have never suckled at the public teat. Ever. I have paid my taxes, helped my neighbours and family members when required, I have volunteered at numerous organizations and have donated money and goods to charities and most importantly, I exercised self-control when it came spending mine, and other peoples, money.
Fuck you Lehman Brothers, fuck you AIG, fuck you Citigroup, fuck you GM and fuck everybody else. Would you have bailed me out when I was in over my head? I thought not.
I am the little red hen in the story, with the exception of there will be nothing left for me when I need to be bailed out from bailing out everybody else. Who the fuck is going to bail out the North American economy when we have to pay the piper for all of this?
Well said, Monty. That is the intellectual leap that many in America are unable to make. It is easy to blame and finger point that accept responsibility.
psarhjinian nailed it. The people at GM have no incentive to do the really hard things. If the government did take control, and turn the control over to someone who could exercise it, something could be salvaged from GM.
Unlike Canucknucklehead, as an outsider I don’t
feel it our place to comment on American politics or American politicions.
However let me say this.As far as state leaders go Jennifer is not to hard to look at and Sarah is
smoking.
@ menno:
Thanks for clarifying your meaning. I could live with 10-12 million people in Michigan. I say that as someone who grew up in northern Michigan. I’d move back, but there aren’t many electrical engineering jobs up that way.
I also concur that Michigan is dangerously close to becoming Appalachia north if it’s not there already. I disagree that becoming Vermont west would be an awful fate as long as Michigan were able to attract some level of light industry to complement the tourist trade.
A lot of us who have worked hard all our lives and lived below our means for most of it are in danger right now. How the hell is it my fault?
A lot of those bad loans were given to speculators. I’ve seen it too many times. There are a class of people who made large amounts of money by buying over their heads, holding on as long as possible, and selling at a profit. These people were rewarded by taking a chance in an exponentially growing market. Some made it out with a load of cash, and some got stuck holding the bag. Interest only loans and arms were designed for people who wanted the lowest investment in their speculative homes.
Menno: I thought your “handle” was a reference to Menno Duerksen [sp] who used to be one of Cars & Parts writers and historians for many years.
Katie, you are absolutely correct-o-mundo. “W” being more of a socialist in the end than Chavez in Venezuela (and which Chavez even took the time out to mock W about) makes the ruling elite here look like the fools and knaves that they truly are.
Monty, I’m also the little red hen and yeah, I’m sick to the back teeth of the users, well, using. Using my good nature (and the good nature of others like us). Using up nature irresponsibly. Using fake money instead of gold and silver, which the Constitution actually REQUIRES and which was never rescinded.
It’s very difficult (not impossible) for crooks and politians to wave their little magic wands and steal from the population via inflation, when there is real money in use – why else does everyone suppose that EVERY SINGLE NATION ON EARTH now uses fiat money?
As I’ve said, I’ve been talking about this since 1979 and literally, wasted my breath for 30 years.
Ron Paul keeps saying it and virtually nobody listens.
Well, soon enough, we’ll all have nothing, then we get to hear the whiners saying “why didn’t someone tell us what could happen? Waaaaaa”
Sorry, tough shitty. People like me have been talking about this and extolling folks to wake up and have the scales fall off their eyes for 30 years.
Now it’s soon time to pay the piper, eh?
Except that I have been putting up real money for years now. And no, I’m not going to share it out.
Know what? Here’s an interesting story if you are smart enough to understand it. In 1919 or so, in Germany, a bellhop was given a VERY nice tip by a travelling wealthy Frenchman; a gold angel.
After the hyperinflation (a few German Reichmarks being worth one dollar in 1920 vs. a TRILLION or more being worth one dollar in 1923), this selfsame bellboy bought THE ENTIRE HOTEL with the gold angel. Not even 1/4 ounce of gold.
Get the picture?
Dweezil, my handle is in reference to Menno Simons. While I’m not a member of the reformation church that he helped to found, I highly respect friends who are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menno_Simons
Folks who are the sanest people I know. Anywhere. Hard working. Honest. Don’t have TV wasting away their brains & precious time. The small congregation near me is 70 souls, yet they have sent no children to public schools since 1976 and have K-12. They understand their Christian walk to be as Ambassadors in a foreign land; therefore, they do not vote, nor will they allow themselves to be drafted. They generally believe in peace and take the word of God seriously, therefore won’t lift a weapon to kill fellow humans. They’re careful with money, are good stewards of the earth yet obviously don’t worship it, and take their Christian and interpersonal responsibilities seriously. They’re honest in their business dealings.
In fact, I’m going to step on some toes big-time and say that if folks who “say” they’re Christians would act 1/2 as Christian as these folks who actually act out the Christian life, non-Christians would a) have a lot more respect for us b) we’d live in a far better world (which cannot be perfect until Christ returns) c) we’d have a lot less heart-ache with all of our business dealings and d) our children would all be a lot safer. Among many other things.
menno, that’s a great story about the little red hen. I can identify with that chicken. But on the political stuff in general, I’d prefer you scale back on the hyperbole. (As should some other folks unhappy about Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush(es), etc.) I like this joke: Q: “What did they call ‘the good old days’ back then?” A: “These troubled times.” But yes, I am apprehensive about the economic and social consequences of Obama’s policies.
mikey, thanks for avoiding comment on another nation’s affairs. I’ve known some Canadians who are awfully nice people but they just fly off the handle when talking about the US. A waitress in an UK restaurant gave me (a stranger, and a paying customer) a five-minute tongue-lashing about America’s politics. Wouldn’t it be better for their blood pressure if they just ignored the US? For example, I don’t care what sort of health care scheme Canada, the UK or France choose, why should they criticize America’s?
As to Michigan: for a century Michigan’s high value-added industries pulled in wealth from all over. Its residents long enjoyed above-average incomes. There was lots of capital and talent to adapt to changing times. Now there’s talk it could become a northern Appalachia. Seems like it’s time to try a new game plan.
mikey, thanks for avoiding comment on another nation’s affairs. I’ve known some Canadians who are awfully nice people but they just fly off the handle when talking about the US. A waitress in an UK restaurant gave me (a stranger, and a paying customer) a five-minute tongue-lashing about America’s politics. Wouldn’t it be better for their blood pressure if they just ignored the US? For example, I don’t care what sort of health care scheme Canada, the UK or France choose, why should they criticize America’s?
I’m actually surprised you didn’t simply just walk out. Considering how I would expect someone to just do their damned job instead of attempting political discourse with me, that’s exactly what I would have done.
I’m a Canadian apologist for ill informed condesending people that bash our generous neighbours to the south.
It drives me nuts how they potificate to Americans about how inferior their country and government are and the superiority of Canada.(save for famly I would be back down in the US in a red second , Franklin MI ) I liken it to the country(Canada) having the maturity of a teenager with all the drama and lack of real knowledge.
Cringe
Wouldn’t it be better for their blood pressure if they just ignored the US?
No. Constructive critism is needed the world over at the moment, and the US must be prepared to take it’s lumps. Especially criticism of the corrupt laissez-faire financial system that has near-on destroyed business across the globe.
The USA can learn a lot…..and needs to show some humility.
Menno: thanks for clarifying. Admirable traits all. And the link was helpful.
One more indicator that I am in extremely deep waters on this site. And keep coming back to learn more from the B&B. Maybe one day I’ll make the grade myself.
Nice to hear about people with conviction and innate grit surviving the modern era with all the shamelessness and toxic
narcissistic behavior going on at all levels.
No toe stepping done on these feet.You’re simply correct.
Best,
nutherlogin:
Tha fact is that the MSM is in the same boat. They cannot possibly be frank – they must have GM be given unrestrained handouts – for this is what they themselves will be lining up for.
+1. So-called ‘news’papers especially.
Sure, Google’s employees’ contribute 80/20 in favor of Dems. But I trust their (100 percent union-free) workers to fix the news gathering model more so than today’s so-called journalists.