GM’s Steve Harris is dancing all over the bankruptcy issue at GM’s Fastlane blog. Yesterday Haris was sounding resigned if still-delusional. “So, by now you’ve seen the news reports,” he wrote. “You know that auditors have said that there is substantial doubt about GM’s ability to survive as a ‘going concern’ through the end of the year. It’s certainly led to some scary headlines – some more accurate than others, of course.” But all scary. Yeah, believe it or not, we kind of saw it coming.
“First of all, we’d just remind everyone that an auditor’s job involves objectively determining whether there is substantial doubt about a company’s ability to survive the year.”
To be fair other people at GM are probably supposed to help “objectively determine the company’s ability to survive the year,” but the auditors are the only ones who can be prosecuted if they don’t.
“Given our recurring losses, the weakness of the economy and the auto industry in particular and the fact that we have announced that we will need additional support this year, we agree that our ability to continue as a going concern is a matter of substantial doubt that depends on a number of factors—and we don’t control all of them. We acknowledge the challenges and risks that face us today, but we’re still going forward with our plan, we’re still making the best cars we’ve ever built, and we’re still rebuilding our company for long term viability.”
Oh, right. Dozed off for a second there. Sorry.
“I know, some will say that this sounds like corporate-speak. But what does anyone expect – that we’ll pick up our marbles, say “They’re right,” and go home? Sorry… we’re planning on being around. We understand all too well the challenges we face at this time and in this truly difficult economy. But we’re not giving up, we’re not giving in, and we sure aren’t planning on going away.”
You mean cards, not marbles. When you’re threatening the US government with $100 billion in pension liabilities, you always stay in the hand. Even if your “Vice President, Global Communications” admits that his blog post sounds like “corporate speak.” And as of today, Harris has his poker face back. Go underdogs!
“Sometimes there’s coverage in the media that doesn’t represent the full story of what’s happening at GM. I thought I’d take the opportunity to use FastLane to fill you in on a recent media misstep.”
Please do not read my post from yesterday.
“Despite the story in today’s Wall Street Journal, I am here to tell you that General Motors has not changed our position on bankruptcy. Since this is a major issue, much in the news today, we issued a statement in response to the story – and while I hate to just repost things verbatim, the press statement is dead-on, so I’ll repeat it here:”
You get the idea. And no apologies for “corporate speak” this time either. Meanwhile, GM’s stock has fallen below $1.50.
But, but, Warren Brown says GM won’t go into bankruptcy so it must be true:
A GM bankruptcy would cost us all a lot more than another extension of federal emergency loans. The reason why bankruptcy is being supported so enthusiastically by certain southern lawmakers is quite obvious to me. Their state and regional constituents have given hundreds of millions of dollars in direct incentives and tax breaks to lure non-union foreign auto plants. Bankruptcy would all but kill the UAW, the primary force for highwer wages for union and non-union labor. Bankruptcy would void all kinds of healthcare and other employee legacy costs.
But wait, there’s more:
Let’s forego the traditional remarks about jobs, of which several hundred thousand are attached to GM. Let’s talk history. GM pulled several generations of Americans into the middle class. GM pulled us through several wars and one terrorist attack. GM, Ford, and Chrysler have been asked to do what many of their freign competitors have never been asked to do, compete against foreign rivals heavily subsidized by foreign governments and state and regional governments in the United States.
Yes, GM screwed up mightily in the 1960s through the 1980s. But it long ago began correcting those errors, and has done a pretty darned good job of turning itself around in terms of global organization, product quality and diversity and advanced engineering.
GM’s problem today isn’t products. It isn’t management. GM’s problem is that it’s caught in a vicious consumer strike — the same one that is costing Honda and Toyota billions, the same one forcing Honda and Toyota to cut jobs, delay projects, shutter plants — the same one forcing Honda, Toyota, German and Italian car companies to turn to their governments for aid.
The end game of bankruptcy has less to do with GM, per se, than it has to do with an ongoing war against organized labor.
I gotta agree with him about the war on organized labor although the UAW brought a lot of this crap on themselves as well. That stance won’t win me friends and influence people here though.
Yunno, this is one of those stories where everybody’s a bad guy.
Just more blaming of someone else… reminds me of this lyric from Dire Straits:
“When you point your finger ‘cuz your plan fell through, you got three more fingers pointing back at you..”
I don`t think that there is any less `an ongoing war against organized labor. then an ongoing war by organized labor against the companies that employ them.
That`s exactly what the problem is.
Labor has never abandoned their most confrontational tendencies even while the world has moved on. Call it Globalization, World is Flat – whatever; its a fact and it is here to stay. In the meantime Organized Labor is still trying to relive battles fought long ago.
Yes, GM screwed up mightily in the 1960s through the 1980s
Uh, judging from my wife’s POS 1998 Buick it’s been a little longer than that…..
John
Okay, GM screwed up from the ’60s through the ’80s? The way i see it, GM screwed up from the ’70s through the ’90s. And as far as the comments about what C11 will do to the UAW, is that supposed to make the average American root for GM and against a C11 filing? If a bankruptcy is what it will take to get GM out from under the UAW and all of their so-called “legacy costs”, then it sounds like a damn good idea. GM will not survive on government handouts, it’s time the idiots at the top give up the ghost. File now, dump the dead weight (UAW, Saturn, Saab, Hummer, GMC) and adjust to the market now. Quit trying to do business like you did back in the day.
@jkross 22 “Two men say thier Jesus one of them has gott’a be wrong”…..you gott’a love Dire Straits eh?
GM screwed up through the ’90’s!?!? Can we amend that to read, “GM has screwed up through March 6, 2009 at 3:43 p.m. CST”?
Tex
p.s. Date and time stamp to be amended continually until this shit stops………
That basis of this story is a meaningless event.
If the auditors think there is even the slightest chance of bankruptcy this year, they have to say so to cover their butts.
The smart money is bargain hunting these days and buying up the biggest US corporations for pennies on the dollar.
In 1990 Citibank went down to about $1.25. 9 years later it was above $50.
To TTAC’s credit (though it was a pretty obvious call) you were bearish on GM when it was at 20.
But GM isn’t going to fail. A large if declining number of American consumers are brand loyal, and once GM gets fully bailed out and emerges with lower labor costs and offloads its pension and health care liabilities it will once again be making billions based on both this loyalty and better value.
I suppose it is possible Obama will be dumb enough to let GM fail, but I think he wants to win Ohio and Michigan in 2012. (Quite bit more important than the libertarian nerd vote that has always hated him anyway. Ron Paul! Who is John Galt!).
The risk of buying GM shares is they will go from 1.80 to 0 in bankruptcy. The reward is that it is just as likely to go back to its old range of 20-30.
@gregw “In 1990 Citibank went down to about $1.25. 9 years later it was above $50.”
And 10 years after that, Citibank went down to $1.03 (as of today).
I would absolutely love to see GM pull out this – it means American cars, (some) American jobs and a payback of the tens of billions taxpayers have loaned them, but when they’re losing tens of billions a quarter, don’t plan to be profitable again for two years (based on their latest government bailout filing) and have no more of their own money to pony up, how is it possible?
22% was erased off GM share price today. It will soon join citibank below a dollar and then run the risk of delisting. After C11, new stock will be issued eventually that would be a good bet provided GM emerges with a new labor deal, different management, less product lines, and some sense of what kind of cars to sell.
I doubt that all of that is possible.
NYSE amended the $1 delisting rule, they will not be delisted.
NEW YORK — The New York Stock Exchange will temporarily suspend a rule that would force companies to be delisted when their share price falls below $1, and also said it would keep its relaxed market-capitalization requirement for listed companies until June 2009.
“It will soon join citibank below a dollar and then run the risk of delisting.”
C and GM will most likely have something straightened out in the 90 day warning period (C11, more bailout money, or improved economic prospects). In the unlikely event that nothing changes during that period and the stock is still down, a 1-for-100 reverse split would bring the nominal price above the $1 threshold. Then the delisting worry hinges on the market capthreshold level, which means they have a way to go.
Companies deny things right up until the point when they admit them more often than not. Strongly worded denials mean nothing.
A few random thoughts:
I swear some of you guys write as if our current economic climate (industry-wide car sales down to 1981 levels) is just a normal cycle that only the most foolish corporate heads should have any trouble dealing with.
GM? Flush em’ down the toilet. Retirees (read legacy costs)? Hang em’ out to dry.
An acquaintance of mine works for an electrical contractor who did a lot of work for the ill-fated Getrag Transmission Plant in Tipton IN. Getrag owed his company millions, subsequently filed a glorious bankruptcy, and is now putting my friend’s company out of business. I guess the dumbass should have known better than to go to work for a company that might, at some point in the future, let itself get stiffed by our bankruptcy laws.
I guess I have to assume that none of you who trumpet the beauty of C11 have ever had anyone owe you money.
Oh, and while GM was doing so much so wrong in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. it might pay to remember that they were making boatloads of money. Is that really the bottom line, or is there some other standard you would prefer?
And one more thing. Someday you will all be on Social Security and Medicare, and guess what? Your perspective on “legacy costs” may change.
jkross22 :
Just more blaming of someone else… reminds me of this lyric from Dire Straits:
“When you point your finger ‘cuz your plan fell through, you got three more fingers pointing back at you..”
Not auto related, but that’s also (or was) a Disney thing, too. Disney “Cast Members” who work in retail are (or were, some time ago) taught to never merely point to an item when asked by the “Guest” “where can I find x and y?”; instead, the Cast Member must WALK WITH the guest to the item.
That onefinger/three thing is cited…
TexN :
GM screwed up through the ’90’s!?!? Can we amend that to read, “GM has screwed up through March 6, 2009 at 3:43 p.m. CST”?
Tex
p.s. Date and time stamp to be amended continually until this shit stops………
We can just use the clock in my home office; it’s in the same time zone as GM HQ, is already adjusted for Daylight Savings Time and it has a (reasonably) fresh battery.
br549,
To answer your question:
“GM? Flush em’ down the toilet. Retirees (read legacy costs)? Hang em’ out to dry.”
The answer is YES…flush that stinking turd down the toilet…and please, spray some of that deodorizer in the air as the place stinks to high hell.
“Oh, and while GM was doing so much so wrong in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. it might pay to remember that they were making boatloads of money. Is that really the bottom line, or is there some other standard you would prefer?”
Back to your “hang them out to dry” comment…you see, the profit$ GM made in the 70s, 80s, and 90’s were NOT a mutual win/win situation with respect to their customers…oh, NOO…that boatload of money they made came at their customer’s expen$e. So, like any money-grubbing corporation…there DOES come an end. People are not stupid, least of all loyal customers who pay dearly for the “blessing” of owning one of their (GM’s) P’s-O-S’s.
You see, GM is the very company who “hung their CUSTOMERS” out to dry.
The company has been morally and ethically Bankrupt for the past 30 years….only now the financial part is catching up with them. To which I say, “Amen”.
SunnyvaleCA :
C and GM will most likely have something straightened out in the 90 day warning period (C11, more bailout money, or improved economic prospects). In the unlikely event that nothing changes during that period and the stock is still down, a 1-for-100 reverse split would bring the nominal price above the $1 threshold. Then the delisting worry hinges on the market capthreshold level, which means they have a way to go.
This little trick was tried many times in the market correction that began in April, 2000. The market KNOWS that reverse splits are last-ditch attempts to stave off delisting. 9 of 10 reverse splits STILL end up below $1 within a year, and STILL end up being delisted from the national markets. And 9 of 10 of those NEVER return to the national markets.
Reverse splits really never work, because they don’t address the underlying problem! It’s like losing an arm, a leg, an eye, and half your teeth in a horrible accident. You’re bleeding out from multiple wounds right there on the street, and you’re just asking for an aspirin.
At this point, the patient is mortally wounded, but due to the shock, he has no idea just how dire the situation really is!
This is where the EMTs would (hopefully) arrive with a crash cart (Chapter 11). Bankruptcy reorganization is not death; it is a chance at life!
@mikey
“you gott’a love Dire Straits eh?”
Giddy up. Knopfler is still writing great music.
@br549:
“I guess I have to assume that none of you who trumpet the beauty of C11 have ever had anyone owe you money.”
Actually, I have. A client last year went belly up taking thousands of dollars they owed me to pay their lawyer.
I’d rather see GM die and reborn than see more of our money thrown at them for a zero chance of turning it around and maintaining an unsustainable business model. That just perpetuates the foolishness.
It is probably too late for chapter 11. Its medicine works best when taken early. GM’s stock has cratered. Its insolvency has reached fever pitch. GM’s disease may be terminal now. Not even massive cash infusions can save it.
I cannot speak for others, but GM’s troubles give me no joy. Like the crash and burn of Enron, WorldCom, Lehman Brothers, and similar companies, it’s heartbreaking to see employees and especially retirees lose so much. But what can we do? We cannot afford to bail everyone out. We all sink if we try.
@Rastus & jkross22 :
The points I’m trying to make are thus:
This is not a mere cyclical downturn in the automotive industry–indeed it’s nothing less than a manufacturing Armegeddon–so I think it would be helpful to frame the discussion in those terms.
In the modern history of the U.S. we have never seen anything comparable to what a G.M. bankruptcy would look like. Please don’t pretend it would be another Circuit City or even Pan-Am, or Bethlehem Steel. A G.M. bankruptcy, now and under current circumstances, might make free-market purists smile broadly, but believe me, they’ll be the only ones smiling.
Social costs associated with economic upheaval are very real, and have historically lead to “solutions” that I’m sure the B&B would not care for at all. Like an old professor told me: conservatives should be thankful for FDR. Without him, we would most likely would have had European-style socialism following the Depression.
OK, so we were blessed with Socialism “after” the Great Depression. Is that what the wise old professor was getting at?
Most educators have a liberal / socialist bent to them…after all, their income is highly dependent upon them spreading the gospel of big government…what with all their “grants”, etc.
I had to take a class in college entitled “The Good Society”..and it was nothing BUT socialism…being preached from on high…and if you spoke out against it, you, like me, get a “D”. :)
And I still speak out against it. I REFUSE to be BLACKMAILED…so will you please stop with all the “social” costs? I already pay 50% of my income in taxes…it is taken from me before it even reaches my pocket.
Any “healthy” company can…and ARE (as we speak) …weathering this storm. So Toyota experienced its first operating loss…so what. That’s the benefit of being a strong company. 30+ years of strength easily yields weathering a storm once every so often. But a company hell-bent on destruction IS going to DESTROY themselves! Don’t ask the people of American to stop them from their diabolical and dastardly deeds…LET THEM DESTROY THEMSELVES…if that’s what they want. But don’t come and perform the “Oliver Twist” begging for more. People are tired of this…in more ways than one.
What is wrong with socialism? I am a Finn, we are socialists, it works well.
Yes my taxes are high, 65% or so but every Finn has health care, all children have a college education if wanted, subsidized day care, comfortable retirement.
What’s wrong with it? It depends upon who you ask:
If you ask the productive members of society…then EVERYTHING is wrong with it.
If you ask those unproductive members who are “handed” a living…then of course everything is pure bliss.
It’s Utopian bullshit is what it is. Granted, Finland has Nokia and also makes some lovely wood products…and I’m happy you are happy with it…but Finland is not the U.S. The United States was founded upon initiative.
Nothing saps the life out of initiative more than government. The United States was founded upon the idea that government is subservient to the people, not the other way around …such as you experience daily in your Utopian Finland.
“What’s wrong with it? It depends upon who you ask:
If you ask the productive members of society…then EVERYTHING is wrong with it.”
I likely would be considered productive in most countries. I have the good fortune to be well educated, I enjoy my work and have found it both engaging and profitable. I am proud of my country and its government. I own a Maserati. I wish sometimes it was warmer here.
Well, shoveling billions of dollars of tax payers money to inept corporation smacks of socialism, too, except only the board of directors benefits from it. It would be a lot better to give that money to people who cannot stay in their homes, a bottom up “bailout” rather than a top down golden parachute.
But let them eat cake. The good news is caviar is cheaper now.
All the data I’ve seen says Chrysler is in far far worse shape the GM. They have also been uncharacteristically quiet these last few days.
Would you trade your Maserati for freedom?
Since you’ve been steeped in your way of life, perhaps you cannot answer that question…as you probably don’t know what it means to be free.
Go you youtube and perform a search “From my cold dead hands”….that my friend is what freedom means to Americans (most, anyway). Most people in America would not only give up a Maserati, they’d walk barefoot before subjecting themselves to big government.
“they’d walk barefoot before subjecting themselves to big government.”
I lived for some years in the US and did not find your government less intrusive than my own other than the fact that Finland has obligatory military service.
You are claiming the US has small government?
How are you more free than I?
per :
March 6th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
What is wrong with socialism? I am a Finn, we are socialists, it works well.
Yes my taxes are high, 65% or so but every Finn has health care, all children have a college education if wanted, subsidized day care, comfortable retirement.
Just imagine what Finland could produce if its producers knew that the fruits of their labors wouldn’t be confiscated by the government. Somehow, the loss of economic dynamism seems like too much to pay for the right to go through life in a narcotized stupor, entirely dependent on the beneficence of politicians.
Well, we have freedom on the press and the internet for one thing (thank God). Unlike TTAC’s correspondent in Red China, we do not have blocked websites.
Being “obligated” to pick up a gun and “serve” is considered involuntary servitude…ie, a type of slavery.
We still are able to home-school our kids if we so desire…and not subject them to gov’t brainwashing.
And yes, we still have a modicum of Democracy…unlike the European “Union”. But hey, if you enjoy Slovaks and other EU members belittling and minimizing your self-determination (ie, your sovereignty)…of course, for the “common good”, great.
Enjoy…by all means.
Cicero:
I think the rate of taxation here is a fair trade for what the Finnish populace receives in return. In my own case I am taxed out of proportion to the large majority of the population but this has not yet reduced me to a stupor.
I apparently unwittingly touched a nerve with my comment, that was not my intention nor was my intention to apparently inadvertently insult insult the government of the United States.
Wagoner gets the ax and it’s suddenly a $10 stock.
As long as you are happy being subservient…then everyone is happy :) There is no need to apologize.
War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Freedom is Slavery….but you know that already.
Have a nice evening.
“Being “obligated” to pick up a gun and “serve” is considered involuntary servitude…ie, a type of slavery.”
Here it is considered a patriotic duty.
“We still are able to home-school our kids if we so desire…and not subject them to gov’t brainwashing.”
Same here.
And yes, we still have a modicum of Democracy…unlike the European “Union”. But hey, if you enjoy Slovaks and other EU members belittling and minimizing your self-determination (ie, your sovereignty)…of course, for the “common good”, great.
That is frankly just silly.
@per “nor was my intention to apparently inadvertently insult insult the government of the United States”
As an American citizen, you didn’t insult me, and my government has been doing a simply wonderful job – all by its lonesome – of being insulting. No worries. America is far more socialist than some Americans would like to admit.
@br549 – What you said may indeed be true, but that still doesn’t mean that shoveling billions more into the company will do anything to save it, see my points above.
this discussion is getting way off topic as it is
however i would disagree that America is some kind of bastian of capitalist and free society with a benevolent and libertarian government
you probably want someone like Ron Paul at the helm but how did that go? not too well
America has some of the most overbearing and top heavy governments of any western nation
sure there is a veneer of ‘freedom’ in respect to free speech and gun rights etc. but many people would say even these are being encroached upon
America is an restricted as many European countries, just in different areas.
I can’t see Obama and Biden doing any good as far as this goes. Hope and change indeed.
BR 549 Do you have any idea how much money it would take for the gov. to save GM? This would not be an effeicent way to solve the problem.
@br549:
“we have never seen anything comparable to what a G.M. bankruptcy would look like”
This is a poor argument for not allowing GM to follow the natural cycle of a failed business.. sounds awfully similar to ‘too big to fail’ which is utter nonsense. Allowing GM to continue through taxpayer subsidies is morally wrong.
The Republic will survive the death and ultimate rebirth of a failed company following a failed business strategy. But if you’d like, you are more than welcome to break out the violin.
Yes, there will be social costs, environmental costs, etc, etc, but from the ashes of GM should arise a much smaller, leaner, more competitive company lacking the legacy costs and toxic culture that have dug GM the grave it currently is spinning in.
Well, Finland did one thing right. It produced a citizen who could defend his argument without resorting to ad hominem tactics, such as calling his opponent a dupe lacking the intelligence to realize he’s being sucked in by Big Brother.
“GM is the very company who “hung their CUSTOMERS” out to dry.”
Oh so true.
Bought Chevy in 2004, a Silverado made at the Ft. Wayne Indiana plant.
Opted for Chevy vs. Toyota with a large part of my purchasing decision based upon “assisting the home team.”
Multiple dealers spat upon me regarding warranty work (actually ‘non-work’).
Pleaded for assistance from corporate GM but was merely told to go back to the dealers… “click.”
For pert’ near four years I have spread my tale far and wide, warning other consumers of the fate that could befall them if they buy a GM product.
On-line, in real life, I have warned as many folks as possible of the horrid treatment I received from GM.
While doing so I was surprised how many others had the same or similar tale of their own similar/same experience or of someone they knew telling them a same/similar story as I conveyed.
That horrible treatment of customers has to have a cumulative effect only exacerbated by the current economy-wide problems.
And… I continue to spread the word albeit I do not use this venue to warn others; here I merely add my 4-cents to express a possibility for one of many reasons to assist in explaining what may be the downfall of GM.
Just as taxpayer money assisted Imelda Marcos buy her herd of shoes and for her dictator hubby to bilk billions from the USA and his own country (Philippines) I fear OUR money will be used to line the pockets of corporate elites (and union elites… same species, different label) with the common folks paying the ultimate price since it is the masses of end consumers who pay the final tally.
Excuse me while I go compete for housing, jobs and health care as a working-poor citizen in competition with millions of illegal aliens, folks the elites and those higher up the socio-economic pyramid are not forced to compete against.
@obbop
GM’s business model towards the end was non-sustainable if the goal of a business is to create loyal customers.
Their margins were cut so tight that they had to resist after-sale expenditures as much as possible. This is what happens when you’re selling 9 million cars/year, and at a loss.
Even if only 10% of your cars are duds requiring fixes under warranty, that’s 900.000 cars. With GM workers being starved on the line, with parts suppliers being starved on bids – GM was ensuring a very high failure rate.
The entire business model of GM is self-defeating. Good brands work along a continuum, trying to build value over time.
Ruined brands such as GM’s work solely in the now, and cannot think of the future. Can’t afford to.
Sticking you with that car, and those repair costs, right now, became crucial to GM, because it was cash strapped and dysfunctional, but tried to pretend it was neither.
GM is over.
@ jkross22:
“Allowing GM to continue through taxpayer subsidies is morally wrong.”
If I truly felt this way, that subsidies were indeed an issue of morality then I wouldn’t waste my energies over this little issue. If you’re really concerned about subsidies I would suggest you do a little research into other sectors of the economy (where absolutely no pretense is made concering “loans,” just direct deposits of cash) and then check out what our business competitors in other nations are receiving.
Again, if you wish to take this to the level of morals, and then look at the big picture in our country and consider the way it’s governed, perhaps you should consider securing some one-way tickets to New Zealand.
GM, to me is like the bully that terrorized the schoolyard for years. Then one day he became a parapalegic and nobody wants to push his wheelchair. Meanwhile, the bully is still threatening to cause havack.
The loan/bailout even if it works to keep GM alive, won’t win any friends for the former no.1 automaker. Maybe some more enemies such as p***ed off taxpayers.
People shilling the nonsense that GM in bankruptcy is uncharted waters are either uninformed or lying.
International Harvester went through much the same thing GM and Chrysler are going through today. They finally filed for bankruptcy, shed obligations that were proving fatal to them, and came back stronger.
More info what the U.S. went through in ’82 can be found here:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,949605-1,00.html
1982 to 1983, rented a garage to live in. Tough times. 30 percent unemployment in California’s southern Central Valley region.
Yet, the politicos and powers-that-be still refused to halt the flow of illegal entrants or oust those present.
Takes money to move/relocate and starting anew elsewhere as a stranger with no ties in that area is difficult.
Thus, let GM fall and let the New Great Depression hit the USA HARD, very hard, so that those so-far distanced from what too many working-poor American citizens have confronted for far-too-long can can experience first-hand for themselves.
Class envy?
Nah’.
Just wanting to share with others what the underclass has to offer!!!!!
Hope y’all revel in it!!!
Dumpster diving ain’t all that bad.
Just imagine what Finland could produce if its producers knew that the fruits of their labors wouldn’t be confiscated by the government.
Yeah, you have a point. They have Nokia, a profitable company and global brand that is going to go the distance, while we have Motorola, whose business performance is about as stable as a yo-yo in a hurricane. Maybe we need to hire a few Finns and take notes.
(Americans need to stop pounding on their drums, and start listening to the music playing around them. As is GM, the country spends far too much time beating on its chest, and not nearly enough learning what we can from everyone else’s mistakes…and their successes. Obviously, there is a lot that we aren’t getting right, and it isn’t just in Detroit.)
Every country has it’s problems. The problem with the internet is that someone can get online and state how wonderful things are in their homeland…and yes, there will even be some gullible people who say “we need to really be a little more introspective and perhaps we really SHOULD look to Finland as an example”.
Your self-doubt is getting the best of you. You don’t need to look towards Socialism to fix your problems. In fact, that is the very same mentality Socialism breeds and thrives on- people without a backbone…people who give up and say “government will fix it”. That type of sycophant, self-defeating attitude is a killer.
It’s called conditioning. You have been so conditioned to where you can’t think logically. And yes, you are even willing to give up your freedoms so you don’t have to deal with any problems.
Well guess what? Life is all about problems. It’s how you deal with them which either marks you as a “man” or a “mouse”.
That’s right…government will fix GM. And government will fix all your personal problems too…you go back to sleep, everything will be all right.
Every country has it’s problems. The problem with the internet is that someone can get online and state how wonderful things are in their homeland…and yes, there will even be some gullible people who say “we need to really be a little more introspective and perhaps we really SHOULD look to Finland as an example”.
You should apply for a job at GM. You have quite a bit in common:
-A not-invented-here attitude (if isn’t American, then it can’t possibly be any good.)
-Quick to denounce business practices abroad, even when they get better results
-A fierce defender of the home team, with no willingness to recognize or correct mistakes, or to learn from the competition.
You would fit right in with the GM culture, given that you approach the outside world in exactly the same way. And we all know how well that has worked out for them.
I am NO “defender” of a so-called “home team”. If you’ve read ANY of my posts re. GM, you’d know this already.
And by the way, Pch101, …being as we’re all auto fans on this site, …please tell me how well Finland’s home-engineered, home-designed, and home-built automobile industry is doing. I’m not talking about Porsche’s “kit car” Boxter they assemble over there either…I’m talking about a true “Finnish” automobile”.
Please let me and the entire world know…I’m so very anxious for you to speak up.
You Socialists out there, either in heart or in sympathy, please…I hope you really enjoy your Trabants, Skodas, Volgas, etc. They are the new thing.
All you have to do, Pch101, is to cruise down the Golden State Freeway in your Trabbie…belching black smoke every inch of the way….knowing deep within your heart you are supporting “The Good Society”.
Do you, in your brilliant wisdom, see any difference between….oh, …South Korean and North Korea?? Or is the difference between the two just another “shade of gray”….there’s no right or wrong, now is there?
Mediocrity is what Socialism breeds…and if GM is to make it, then they need to make it on their own.
Period.
(Sorry to burst your Utopian bubble).
“Better results”?? That’s some dreamworld you are living in buddy. I can’t say you’re crazy, else I’d be called a flamer and my post would be deleted…
I am NO “defender” of a so-called “home team”. If you’ve read ANY of my posts re. GM, you’d know this already.
Ah, but you are just like GM when it comes to your approach to politics, which is what makes this all the more ironic.
You have the exact same blinders when it comes to political matters that GM has had when it comes to business. All pride and hubris, unable to appreciate constructive criticism, vehemently opposed to learning from others, believing that it would be an indication of weakness to acknowledge that the home team makes mistakes. Replace “the US” and “Finland” with “GM” and “Toyota” in your posts, and you’d fit right in with the Detroit Defender crowd.
Now you can see why GM is such a slow learner. The company not only refuses to learn from its errors, but is violently opposed to any suggestions that they have erred in the first place. It’s what happens when we worry about our fragile egos, instead of focusing on getting results.
You’re a flamer sure enough, Rastus. You’re just subtle enough and “TTAC-correct” enough to get by with it.
I’ve got a question for you though: Were the all-American boys Ken Lay and Bernie Madoff men or mice? Our very non-Socialist, and non-interventionist red, white, and blue regulatory system let these gents “thrive” for years. Add sub-prime to the mix and we, indeed, have something to teach the rest of the world. I hope Finland is taking notes.
Listen, I’ve been to Berlin before it was re-unified. The wall was still standing.
Here’s a little hint for you and your kind: People from the East were the ones risking life and limb (literally) to sneak over to the West.
So you say I have not, nor am I willing, to “learn” anything?
I’ve learned plenty to know what I’m talking about.
I’ve NEVER once heard of anyone trying to emigrate or sneak across the border into a Communist country from the West.
Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.
It pains me to know many people in this nation of ours have given up. It’s truly pathetic.
Bernie? Throw his ass in prison where he belongs. Instead of enforcing the laws of the land, you wish to toss everything out and “welcome” Socialism.
You truly need to hop on a plane and go visit other countries.
And, like GM, if there is anything wrong with America…then American’s need to fix it. Why is that so hard to understand?
I know…I know…you’re struggle (Mein Kampf)…I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time of it.
If China, did you know, you can’t even MOVE from one city to the other without government permission…and that permission can take months, or it can be “denied” outright. It’s all based upon the “master plan”…ie, the “government’s needs”. Did you know that? You have to go to the “authorities”…and if you are caught as a “squatter” in a city where you don’t belong, there is hell to pay.
Please stop blaming others and look to yourself for strength and guidance. Stop making excuses, much like the GM you keep bringing up.
I mean that most sincerely. Making excuses is yet another sign of weakness.
Mein Kampf? You, my friend, are over-the-top and out-of-control.
If you’ll take a moment, wipe the foam off of your screen and read my posts, you will realize that I never claimed to be a socialist. And what Berlin(?) and Chinese travel restrictions have to do with any of this is a mystery that only the inner workings of your mind can explain.
If you cannot discern between someone advocating a little gov’t regulation, and perhaps assistance, in times of extreme economic stress and the policies of Joseph Stalin than you really need to stay away from forums and find a more constructive hobby.
And talking of weakness, one sure sign of a weak argument is the inclusion of ridiculous analogies, red herrings, and name-calling.
Sheesh.
I’ve NEVER once heard of anyone trying to emigrate or sneak across the border into a Communist country from the West.
That’s great. But I think that the Finns would be surprised to hear themselves described as Communists, particularly given that they fought two wars against the Soviets.
You truly need to hop on a plane and go visit other countries.
There is no plane that will take me to Communist Finland, because such a place doesn’t exist.
If China, did you know, you can’t even MOVE from one city to the other without government permission
I know that this will surprise you, but China and Finland are two different countries with different governments, cultures, languages and business practices.
Honestly, you’re in the deep end of the pool with this one. If you have to violate Godwin’s Law to make a point, then you haven’t made much of a point.
Would you wish to be reminded of a more “tame”, a more “kindler, gentler”, example…one which won’t grate your delicate nerves?
Try British Leyland on for size.
How did that work out for you? Was it all the fault of the government…not tossing enough money at the problem?
It’s all the Queen’s fault, right? …it has absolutely nothing do do with the fact they built junk which even those in their home market refused to buy, now does it?
Let me guess, you drive a 1978 yellow MG Midget, don’t you?