I hate trash. Unfortunately we live in a society that is waist deep in it, thanks to “planned obsolescence” and the unfathomable cost cuttings of the day. Case in point? Well, a ten-year-old Ford Taurus [pictured here] recently went through a Carmax auction. I bought it for $200 and, yes, it actually runs quite well despite the elephant man front end. The engine has been given regular changes over it’s 109k miles. The transmission shifts smoothly enough (for now) thanks to its recent replacement. And the interior isn’t in bad shape at all. So why did the owner decide to get rid of it and later sell at auction for so little? Read on.
First off, most Tauruses were absolutely terrible cars for their time as it applies to durability. I mean really REALLY bad. So bad that when most dealers see a 1990s Taurus or Sable go through the auction, they automatically assume that something’s very wrong with the powertrain and keep looking elsewhere. The transmissions? AX4Ss and AXODs were notorious for their self-destructive nature. The AX4N in this one is far better but not by all that much. Engines? The 3.8L V6 engines were an absolute dream for mechanics seeking work. The Vulcan 3.0s were far better but largely underpowered. This one has the highly preferred 3.0L Duratec which has greater horsepower but far trickier maintenance.
The overall powertrain for this particular Taurus is more blah than outright money pit. It definitely beats the Dodge Intrepid (worst engines of the modern era) and most Mazda 626s (worst trannies, period). Since it has 109k miles and the tranny has already been replaced in the recent past, this one is likely to last for a few years before the ghost of Nasser catches up with it.
As far as looks, this Taurus looked like it got into a fight . . . and lost. It looks like something that would obviously be hidden amongst the sagebrush in its current incarnation. However the damage was entirely cosmetic and centered around the very front left bumper area. A hood, front bumper, quarter panel, headlight and fog light were all found on Craigslist for the princely sum of $100. An hour’s worth of dismantling and re-mantling made the car almost as good as new. One $200 paint job later (the public equivalent is $500) and the Taurus was ready to go—to have a tune-up, oil change, and emissions done.
So what do we have now? In essence, we have a car with 109,000 miles that will sell for $2000 cash retail and about $3500 as a finance deal ($500 down, $50 a week for 60 weeks). One of my employees has driven it through the 200 mile “test drive” to make sure everything remains as it should be. So far, so good. But not really. If Ford hadn’t been penny pinching back in the day, you wouldn’t see them being sold like stinking fish at the auctions.
If Ford hadn’t been penny pinching back in the day, you wouldn’t see them being sold like stinking fish at the auctions.
And Ford would be in better financial shape now.
Up Nawth, the first warm day you find dead Taurii littering the roadsides due to overheats.
It definitely beats the Dodge Intrepid (worst engines of the modern era)
So you’d purchase a 3.0L Duratec Taurus over an Intrepid with the 3.5L EGG?
I don’t care how unreliable the car is; you got a h**l of a deal. Steven I see you pick up a lot of low end autos, do you own a buy here pay here dealer?
My dad had a ’92 Taurus wagon, which he gave to a family friend upon “upgrading” to a ’96 Taurus wagon. The ’92 was (or seemed) a lot better built. I don’t know what lay under the hood of the ’96, but it moaned like a harpooned whale! when prodded.
“a car with 109k miles that will sell for $2000 cash retail and about $3500 as a finance deal ($500 down, $50 a week for 60 weeks).”
Did I read that right — the buyer pays $1500 of interest if the balance of $1500 (cash price $2,000 minus $500 down) is financed over fourteen months? That seems like a rather steep interest rate.
50merc : Did I read that right — the buyer pays $1500 of interest if the balance of $1500 (cash price $2,000 minus $500 down) is financed over fourteen months? That seems like a rather steep interest rate.
After talking to a few people at local car gatherings, there is a market for that kind of math. People like it. I just kept my mouth shut.
Nice catch, Mr. Lang. You are definitely “bullish” in this market.
Has Ford gotten their autobox problems sorted on their current crop of vehicles? Those Taurii/Windstar tranny problems went on for at least 15 years.
Did I read that right — the buyer pays $1500 of interest if the balance of $1500 (cash price $2,000 minus $500 down) is financed over fourteen months? That seems like a rather steep interest rate.
137% per year according to my math. An offer you can’t refuse?
The AX4N in this one is far better. But not by all that much.
Really great story. But not that good.
I don’t want to kill the comments (again) by responding to everyone. But thankfully I have some free time at the moment.
Gardiner: Yep. Ford under-engineered the Taurus and lost a lot of loyal buyers in the process. However I do like most of the products they sell today and consider them to be as good as their Toyonda counterparts reliability wise.
Andy: Funny you mention that. I’ll be traveling to Jersey tomorrow right after I do an impound lot auction.
ajla: I’ll be doing the trip in a 2004 Dodge Intrepid Police Interceptor.
TEW: Until October of this year I only sold vehicles for cash. Period. It was a nice side business related to my auctioneering work and it didn’t take much to do given the opportunities that literally surround me.
James2: For A to B transportation they’re not bad cars. Like most Ford family products of that time, you have to maintain them in an extremely vigilant manner and work around their weaknesses. Tranny cooler… tranny cooler…
50merc / Sajeev: You read that right. Cash or repeat customers do get a very substantial discount because I don’t risk losing my investment if they buy it outright.
On the flip side, if folks pay off the vehicle within 60 days they get it for the same discounted cash price. The ones who finance are generally looking at the down payment ($500 to $700) and the weekly payment ($40 to $60). If it fits their budget, they buy it and I assume the risk of them not paying or blowing the car up. If it makes you feel any better, I don’t add any fees or interest. I just tell them the down payment, weekly payment and number of payments.
John Horner:
Yes, absolutely. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if the trannies in the Taurus/Sable are now better than those in the Avalon.
The Taurus in the picture is a 1999 SHO.
I think the Third-generation SHO can be used as the poster child of the underengineering of Ford products in the late 90s. The Third-generation SHO had a catastrophic problem with the cams failing, destroying the entire engine around 70,000 miles, unless you had the cams welded. It is a well documented problem that it is said that Nasser knew about, and did nothing about it.
“The 3.8L V6 engines were an absolute dream for mechanics seeking work.”
Been there, seen it, done it. ’95 Sable wagon – three head gaskets (two replacements done under Ford “secret” warranty). Well done Ford.
This car (as pictured) has teenage son/daughter written all over it….. I’m liking it.
Other then Taurus, what’s available and feasible for the kids these days.
Caveat: I don’t love them as much as I used to since they hit adolescence.
Hmm…
CarMax Auctions are DEALER ONLY auctions.
So what you’re saying is, people in the biz can get better deals than common folk? Someone, call the local TV station! Film at 11!
I’m sorry, but that car looks horrible. Those concave door panels make it look like it has rolls.
segfault… that’s not it. About half the vehicles I purchase are from public sales.
The best deals in any business are usually earned by those who have the strongest relationships and by those who exercise the greatest influence in their profession.
The vehicles I purchase are at dealer and public auctions. In every one of those places I do have influence and relationships. But there are other fish who have been swimming in those seas for much longer periods of time. I have a microphone or a car hauler. They have a big rig ten car hauler or a crusher that furnishes China with financial bullets aimed at our country’s disappearing net worth.
Newbies who don’t put in that social equity at an auction (DEALER OR PUBLIC) are simply at an extreme disadvantage. Just like any real world auction you have to study the consignors products, the auctioneers relationships and powers of persuasion, the ebb and flow of dealer and public traffic, and… you have to get an ‘education’.
In the auction business, ‘educations’ are never cheap. Mine came from working every job I could get ten years ago and now… I get the reward of money, fame, and noxious fumes.
Hell, it still beats having a job.
My best friend has worked McDonald’s for 15 years, the last 12 of those qualifying for a company car. Sadly, the default vehicle was either a Ford Taurus or Mercury Sable.
He had the following-
’97 Mercury Sable (3.0L, tranny replaced at 47k)
’01 Mercury Sable (3.0L, tranny replaced at 35k)
’03 Ford Taurus (3.0L, tranny slipping at 52k when he turned it in)
Thankfully, he got promoted to an executive-level position and gets slightly better vehicles now.
The last two were an ’07 Explorer Eddie Bauer and now an ’09 Fusion SEL V6. But the bad taste left by the earlier cars still makes both of us cringe at the sight of one!
Among his co-workers, the Mercury Sable is still known as the “DiSable”! =)
As far as looks, this Taurus looked like it got into a fight . . . and lost. It looks like something that would obviously be hidden…
I actually LIKE (a lot) the looks of this car. The almost grille-less front is very pleasant for a functionalist like me.
Here in Europe we do not have Taurii in the streets (no one imported this car here), but I think fondly about the Taurus every time I spot some Kias that copycated the Taurus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:00-01_Kia_Spectra_GS.jpg
Esthetic preferences reveal deep mental structures. It is very interesting for me to read/hear people expressing distaste about cars with LOOKS I LOVE, like the Taurus, the Renault Vel Satis or the Ford Sierra (Merkur in the USA).
I am the quintessential anti bling personality. I dislike pimped up chromed grilles like “classic” Mercedes-Benz grilles (W124 for instance). I actually masked with black tape the preciously little ABS plastic “chrome” in the dashboard of my Toyota. I do not want to be glared by reflective materials. In WW2 the natural metal finished Flying Fortresses had painted in drab colours every aluminium panel in the line of sight of the pilots…
http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/decals/super/ss48922a.jpg
Reflective materials in the line of sight of a car driver are simply offensive to me. Actually I have been glared by ABS “chrome” junk in other people cars while driving in a sunny day. Drab matte black is the only rational colour for a dashboard.
Steven, Great story, again. I really admire you for carving out this niche for yourself, and the professional manner you go about it.
I have a story to share. I knew a guy in Michigan who did something similar to you. “Gray” was not a dealer, he was just an individual who would buy cheap cars, fix them, update the maintenance, and then sell them cash for a tidy profit. An after work, at home type business. He favored vehicles which he was familiar with, and knew their weaknesses. And then years ago, Michigan had a crackdown on these pseudo dealers. Even though he paid sales tax on all (160+) of them, I think he had to stop, or slowed it to a crawl.
I had a 96 LX with the duratec… Bought in 2000 for 3k. Had 110,000 miles and sold it in 2003 with 247000, miles with out a problem. Bought a 99 wagon that was good until the blend door for the climate control went. That would have cost me $1000 to repair, traded it in on my 06 Fusion SEL.Generally, I have had very good luck with my Fords.
Good for you steven. I hope you continue to prosper. But from my perspective, being involved with a new car franchise, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Here’s why, often we sell new 40-K vehicles for $300.00 margin off net cost or less. Why? Because every other dealer on the street will do the same. There’s just too many of us out here. Here you take a $1-K investment and make a 50% profit quickly. You also do this quickly without excessive floor plan cost or large facility investment. It makes me want to go out and buy all the pig iron I can get my hands on at times. Many new car dealers actually do have secondary lots to help prop up their franchise stores. I will be exploring the idea vey soon.
Deepsouth, the dealers are going through the boomerang effect. Eventually what I’m doing will be going through the exact same peaks and valleys due to the declining fortunes of this country.
The under $3500 vehicle has pretty much becomes the new ‘finance fodder’ of the modern day. It’s not only that these specific vehicles are rare these days.
It’s really due to the staggering number of people who are throwing back their pricey financed merchandise and then trying to find a cheap runabout… which is what they should have bought in the first place.
I don’t believe the traditional new car dealership structure will work in this economy. There’s simply too much infrastructure and people are gradually realizing that an ‘investment’ in anything passive or ego-centered is anything but.
By the end of their run the Taurus and Sable cars were fairly reliable thanks to different powertrains and other redesigns. But the damage was done to the name.
Head Gaskets, Brakes, suspension parts, AC, cooling fans, blower motors, even the turn signal stalks were so prone to failure the dealer kept lots of stock of these.
And of course the owner gets to pay for replacing defective parts out of his pocket. When my father finally gave up on this platform (he owned three in a row) he was conditioned to repairing a vehicle every 3 months. He kept looking for troubles in his Santa Fe and was almost disappointed when he did not find any.
What really grinds people’s gears are the head gasket and transmission failures that by now even Ford admits were a design flaw. How many people laid out 3 grand for another transmission or 2 grand for head gasket replacement out of pocket? Granted Ford would have gone bankrupt covering these repairs since it easily exceeded any profit made on the car new but that would be the point. Companies that pull this shit should go away. Cry-sler and GM did exactly the same thing with transmissions and head gaskets too.
Maybe today we are seeing the revenge of the owners of these cars.
I had a 2003 Taurus as a company car and drove the wheels off of it for a year and a half. In that time, I put 31,000 miles on it bringing the total to 70,000. I took it off road many times and drove over a lot of railroad tracks with it; generally I abused it.
Other than oil changes, two tires and a minor tune-up, I never put anything in it or had a problem with it. The standard 3.0 litre engine was definitely under powered but it was a perfectly reliable car. It’s certainly not one that I would have chosen but no complaints!
I love the resale values of those used old but relatively reliable American cars because I am usually on the buy side!
Example: 3 years ago I picked up a 1999 Ford Taurus (Duratec engine, AX4N) from the original owner with only 37,000 miles on it, for $5,000. A comparable Honda Accord would cost me twice as much. To this day, this Ford works fine. There was no maintenance cost other than changing fluid and tires. I have gone on cross country trips in it, deserts, ski resorts, etc. It’s 10 years old, but feels like it will serve for another 10 years mostly trouble free.
(Yeah, I heard the transmission might go bad eventually, but so far it’s good..)
Can’t agree, folks. I still have a ’92 Sable that is used daily for commutation purposes. It only has 114K miles, but the dreaded trans is still original. Go to the Taurus owners website (TCCA) and see the high mileage bulletin board. Loaded with examples with serious mileage. Yeah it is a “fanboy’ site, but they call it as they see it and there is plenty of criticism as the posters see fit. If I had to make a blanket comment, it would be that Ford was not very consistent in those days. Many of the posters have very good experience, but some have had serious troubles – primarily the early transmissions and 3.8 V6 head gaskets. These cars, because of severe depreciation and abundance, make them ideal “appliance” vehicles. And because of the SHO, any Gen 1 thru Gen 4 can be made to handle really well – enough to embarrass many a high priced car.
Speaking of the SHO, the engine was made by Yamaha, so it was Yammie cams that failed. Ford failed by not owning up to the design defect and paying for the repairs. So now they continue to pay for them in lost sales and bitter ex customers.
OK, so we’ve got “dealers” who’ve gone through hundreds of these vehicles, vs. a couple of “anecdoters” who say they are entirely reliable.
Sorry, I’ll stick with the “dealers\'” experiences.
In the end, we heard stories from friends, family members, co-workers, and others about these “transmission failures before the car was paid off” and other miseries. Which were backed up by vast seas of black dots in the Consumer Reports reliability statistics.
It just boils down to the same thing — THIS is why people keep on buying Toyota and Honda, and still won’t touch a “domestic” with the proverbial ten-foot pole. And then they come in here and get labeled as “hating cars.” But that’s not the case at all — they just hate slipshod-quality, unreliable junk that can’t even begin to make it to 100,000 miles without major catastrophies.
Two caveats here…
1) Vehicles then were far different than today. I have no trouble recommending domestic models to folks, and especially Fords.
2) Toyota and Honda are no longer the gold standard. The big differentiation for today’s models isn’t quality so much as it is features and material quality.
I have also seen Tauruses and Sables last for a long time. In fact, I sold a 1989 Mercury Sable last year that was truly a pleasure to drive. Far better than the low mileage Camry and Accord of that same exact year.
Once you get past the five year mark, it’s mostly the prior owner that determines a vehicle’s quality. As we say in horse country, “It’s not the horse. It’s the rider.” Of course there are exceptions. But the Taurus/Sable of the last seven years are definitely strong values in the marketplace.
It is just a little hard to believe that dismantling and re-mantling a hood, front bumper, quarter panel, headlight and fog light were all done in an hour. And that doesn’t include the myriad of plastics, skirts, air dams, grills, bezels that all have to be removed and replaced.
I mean, I know I have seen them do that in an hour on that “OVERHAULED” TV show which runs for an hour, but cmon now.
Reminds me a lot like the whole real estate “FLIP THIS HOUSE” craze.
In fact, I personally know a couple of ex-mortgage broker-real estate-FIRE type flunkies who do the whole auction, Faux Craigslist post “By Owner” car flipping. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.
And I will take exception to the “They have a big rig ten car hauler or a crusher that furnishes China with financial bullets aimed at our country’s disappearing net worth.” I’d also include those mortgage brokers foisting the subprime adjustable rate time bombs on the less sophisticated buying public. And oh yeah, and the BH / PH guys doing the 137% interest on those same folks. But as I said, the more things change…
Those ARE some awesome prices for ALL those body parts.
After reading the post, I was simply amazed at how cheaply those parts must have become in the last 4 weeks. So, I looked at the Atlanta Craigslist, but oddly, I was not able to come even close to $100 bucks for a “unbent” hood, “straight” front fender, “unscraped” front bumper, let alone fimd any fog lights. Fact is, prices were well over $100 just for a fender, or a hood which is more or less what I usually pay.
I’m assuming the $200 paint job doesn’t include any sheet metal dent repair or bumper resurfacing.
And didn’t you forget to include the auction fee in the “purchase price”? My experience or minimal knowledge is that is generally in the area of $200 bucks or so.
So, me not being an MBA, by my 5th grade math, what you really have here is a 10-11 year old used car, in the form of a 1999 FORD TAURUS, maroon in color, with over 100K miles on the odometer, realistically costing you somewhere well north of $1000 bucks.
If you sell the “thing” for cash, you’re hardly grossing that much, once you include:
The “hour” for the disassembly, (same hour for re-assembly), fooling around with Craigslist (usually priceless), retrieving needed parts, retreiving more needed parts, getting car to paint, getting car back from paint, tuning said car up, getting car to GA emissions inspection (big iffy assumption if a $200 dollar – 11 year old Taurus passes on 1st or any test), and last nut not least, overhead for “the business”.
So if the point of the post is “how to” run a BH-PH, I’m not overwhelmed with the profit margins, considering the time and effort expended.
If it is to illustrate that you can buy an 11 year old (roughly) used car for $200 (actually $400), put another #300 (actually more like $700-$1000) into them and have a 11 year old used Taurus with over 100K miles, for a little less than the other 20 ten year old used Tauruses selling for $2000 bucks on CL, well…sorry..I’m still underwhelmed.
NOTE TO SELF:
Refrain from being “McDonut’s” teenage son or daughter.
Poor kids will forever have a complex from being forced to having to drive grampa’s 1999 Ford Taurus to the football game on a Friday night.
Most of us old folks got to have our Mustangs, Camaros, GTO’s, etc, but for some reason we’re gonna force our kids into a 1999 Taurus with 100K miles on it.
For me, I’d rather have my 16 year old kid drive my Lexus and be cacooned in the far superior safety and reliability features, and possibly suffer the occasional indignity of a scrathed bumper than risk his or her life or well being in this “monster”.
Great article Steve!
You are a breath of fresh air on this forum.
Please continue to enlighten us consumers on the REAL WORLD OF USED CARS!!!
Fascinating!
I am,well will be after the ‘refund check’ mark-up mania be looking for a reasonably priced used car and your insight is thoughtful and entertaining.
As far as a used Taurus goes…
We are a one car family driving a 1989 Taurus SHO DAILY!!!
Yea,I spend about $1000-1500 per year to keep it up but it has NEVER let us down!!!
Unfortunatly the biggest expense is keeping the interior fresh.Upholstery shops are NOT cheap!
Sorry to hear that Ford dropped the ball on later versions but,with so many out there replacement with rebuilt components should still make them a pretty good bet as a daily driver..
Keep them coming Mr. Lang.It’s nice to hear from a professional in the field. Far from being an arm chair expert you actually get out and do the dirty work.
From the time well before I could drive Mike Lamm’s “Used Cars” column in Motor Trend was my favorite. Finally: 40 years later a worthy successor !
You seem practical and wise about money as well as taking the time and energy to make sure you are offering good value for the money to your customers.
More and more people are discovering that buying a new car and scrapping the old one is a tremendous waste.That Taurus will be a respectable ride for someone. And they’ll be proud of it too.
And you are correct: Our biggest export to China is our junk and recyclables.
You are also correct about handing it off to the teenage driver. My nephews are the two worst drivers in the world. The Tauruses they had to run around in suffered all the indignities of an inexperienced driver and beyond, especially doing double duty being daily drivers for my brother and his wife who are equally clueless with maintenance, driving, tire pressure, oil level etc. But they were safe in them. Giving them anything nicer or faster would have been financial stupidity and in the case of having more horsepower available, manslaughter.
BTW: The Taurii proved themselves bullet proof: somehow where ever the kids took it, probably a party near the college, it literally came back with a bullet hole in it.
They have had several Tauruses and currently have
two now IIRC correctly. My sister in law goes to the state auctions and picks them up cheap. One of them had to have the engine and then the trans replaced before it was destroyed in an accident. The rest have kept running in spite of their treatment.
Dweezil… consider me a longtime Frank Zappa fan as well. Thanks very much for the kind words.
oldyak, really these types of cars are best for non-enthusiasts that have a good source for periodic repairs. We have a program that charges folks $50 book time (we use ALLDATA) and cost for parts.
Many of the folks I deal with have little experience with repairs. By offering this and making sure we check their vehicles periodically for any potential minor issues, we avert a lot of high expenses. So far only 10% of our vehicles have required repairs in the last six months, and we haven’t had to do a single repo since August. I don’t purchase a single vehicle without a Carfax and a healthy amount of free time inspecting the vehicle beforehand.
As for parts cars… you often can get one at an impound lot auction for $100 these days (depending on what it is). I’m fortunate in that I work these auctions during the week as an auctioneer and can easily get what I need from the larger buyers in terms of parts.
It’s junk. Treated like a POS by it’s owners and you complain of the AX4N and Duratec 3.0? Get real.
Mazda 626s (worst trannies, period).
Ahh… words that make my heart flutter! A fellow true-believer!
I loved my 626 to death. Literally. And I loved the 626-based Protege I replaced it with.
But would I wish a 626 upon somebody I love? No way. No way in hell.
I bought a ’99 Taurus new. Not one item has broken in 10 years. Not even a light bulb or a fuse. Has 150k miles and still runs great and looks very nice. I take care of my vehicles and I would propose that most cars bought for a low price are not as well maintained.
I know several people with similar Tauruses that did have transmissions go out, but they were all over 150k miles and upon questioning they had NEVER had the transmission oil changed!
This car is well known by many people to be a bargain. Not a lot of money for a solid, safe, reliable, appropriately powered vehicle.
It does not make any aspirations to be a sports car. It is good transportation!
Just as an aside, a Taurus of this vintage and miles will typically have an ‘asking’ price of around $2995.
Cash customers tend to be very focused on the absolute bottom line and will negotiate accordingly.
Finance customers are typically concerned about the down payment, the interest rate, the monthly payment… and whether the particular vehicle fits their budget.
Overall the interest rate will typically work out to anywhere between 10% and 15% given the person’s credit history. In Georgia the maximum interest you can charge is 17%. But typically most dealers will add various fees to inflate their overall return. In fact, Carmax now charges $149 for the processing of their paperwork even though the transaction cost of processing the title is $18 and the cost of a temporary tag is approximately $2.