TTAC reader JG writes:
Sajeev, do I have a question for you! Knowing the roads (and potholes) of Houston (like I know you do) here goes. I own a 2001 Ford Explorer 4-door. My pregnant wife curses the ride every time she’s in the car (whether it’s moving, or not). I have recently replaced the tires, which helped a little and ball joints up front. I’d love to get out of this car into something safer, but it’s not an option for a few more years. Is there anything I can do to improve the ride quality? I know I’m dealing with limited options with the solid rear axle, but there has to be something, right?
Sajeev writes:
I see two quick fixes: put several bags of mulch in the cargo area, or hack the muffler and run a straight pipe. (You can get away with it in Texas.) The mulch takes the bite off the leaf springs, and a large amount of ride quality comes from the rear suspension, fuel economy penalty be damned. But the straight pipe ensures your wife will never complain about the Explorer’s terrible ride. Ever.
But seriously: check/replace your shocks, especially the rears. Explorers with air shocks do ride nicer than the regular model, which shows you can fix this oxcart rear suspension. If they are original, consider replacing them no matter what: the fluid (whatever is left) inside the shocks is more like maple syrup by now
TTAC’s own Stein X Leikanger writes:
I really like the original Jeep Cherokee and am comfortable with the 1993-1996 version, except for the fact that most don’t have an airbag, and if they do, it’s only for the driver. Which is kind of selfish.
The car share I’m using doesn’t like my hunting dog(s), and I’m going to need a Jeep (I say that as if it’s a bad thing.) So here’s my question: apart from the other upgrades I’ll do to the car (suspension, engine tweaks, up country reinforcement and raising, etc) – can I retrofit the 1997 passenger airbag into a 1996 model year Cherokee Limited, 4.0L HO? It will already have the driver airbag installed.
And would that be legal? Will it be approved?
Sajeev writes:
Now that you mention it, the amendment to the “Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 208” in the 1980s is quite self-centered. Or aimed at the perpetually lonely.
Back to your question: the 1997-newer models had a redesigned dashboard and steering wheel. That is, the driver’s side airbag might have changed too, in accordance to the “de-powered” regulations that brought USA systems more in-line with Euro regulations. So you’d need another wheel, dash, and probably a new dashboard wiring harness. And who knows: maybe a rewiring of the dash-to-chassis wiring harness too. Which may cause brightly colored warning lights a plenty. Ouch.
I’d recommend you get a stateside 1997 Cherokee and have the seller put an older front fascia in the cargo hole before it enters the shipping container. Or forget about your personal feelings for your passengers.
But I have a line on a 2001 Ford Explorer with dual airbags and a wikkid straight pipe exhaust in my hometown. For cheap: just wait about two months for the seller’s wife to contact me. I’ll even drive it to the Port of Houston for immediate shipping to Europe.
[Email your automotive queries to sajeev.mehta@thetruthaboutcars.com]
@JG
I have a 2000 Ranger, which I think is the same platform as the Explorer. Unlike the S10, I think Ford thought that people would actually use it as a truck, so the rear is tightly sprung. It rides most comfortably with a 260 lb motorcycle in the back. Obviously you can’t do that with the Explorer, but you might want to put some serious weight in the back, maybe gravel or sand. Make sure the weight is centered and won’t shift though.
If you want to improve the ride, let some air out of the tires. Expect some deterioration in handling, though. also, make sure the front sway bar links are still functional. About 25% of the Explorers have broken these links, and that is a major cause of uinstability and rollovers.
Changing air bags is not a job for amateurs. Best to do at least 4 extra vehicles for crash testing.
Bob
About putting weight in the back, make sure you tie it down securely. Otherwise, in a front collision, it’s going fly forward and hit you in the back of the head.
JG: I would not recommend lowering the tire pressure, especially since you live in a southern state.
Low tire pressure was a contributing factor in the Firestone tire failures which led to all the rollover fatalities. If I were driving a vehicle as prone to rollover as your Explorer, I would leave the tire pressures at the highest recommend value, ride be damned.
Again, on the safety standpoint, carrying a couple hundred pounds of stuff around is all fine and dandy, until you get in a crash and all this stuff comes flying forward toward the passengers at high speed. That kind of weight flying forward in a high-speed crash would quickly crush the rear seatbacks.
I’m sorry to say, but the 2001 Explorer is a truck, and therefore rides and handles like one. I don’t know how many people missed this when buying them. Even though you say it is not an option, I would strongly consider getting another vehicle.
The weight will help. I also have a ranger, and the ride sucks until you fill up the bed with something. You are going to pay a fuel penalty for carrying around the extra weight. You might want to change your shocks. Shocks for something like an Explorer are not expensive, easy to change, (Just two bolts) and are available in many different comfort levels. You can get some of the softer shocks and your ride will improve. (I assume you don’t use the Explorer to tow, or haul heavy objects on a regular basis.)
The air bag idea is way more complicated than its worth. The 97 or newer Jeep will be cheaper, than buying all the parts for the older one. Air bags and the related parts are expensive. They are the reason many insurance companies total cars. It would not be worth the trouble. Even if you did put the whole thing together, how would you know it would work correctly. Air bag systems can be strange.
The airbag system has front collision sensors, probably mounted to the front frame, and a siring harness up there. The steering column is different to accommodate the airbag and its harness.
It’s a lot of trouble. The price difference between a 96 and 97 Cherokee is much smaller than what you will pay in parts for this aribag retrofit plan. It’s not worth it.
if you bought the right tires, then you probably bought the wrong tires.
I never looked at what fits an explorer but,
I would have gone +20mm and also gotten most expensive grand touring tire that fits.
Go poke around tirerack database for best riding and regular-driving-handling tire that looks like it will work.
This way the tire adds nicely to the suspension, wihtout running it 5-10 psi below safety level.
Many tire shops wont cooperate, only will sell you exact size that their computer says came on the car. These shops are staffed by people who do not seem be car people, they are more like mall people or outlet people.
A couple of points:
The Explorer will ride better with weight in it but it helps to place some in the backseat area as well – it’s better distributed that way. I know this is true with my ’91 Cherokee which rides like a cross between a buckboard and a bleedin’ dogcart unless it has weight in it; which leads me to another point…….
Airbag circuitry is integral to the ECM and vehicle’s wiring harness, not to mention as a previous poster did, the issue of the centrifugal sensors that have to be placed, correctly, up front; I’d fugetaboutit. Considering all the cars that I have owned that didn’t have airbags I honestly never felt the need to have one (or both) in my Jeep; personal choice I guess.
@SXL
Why not simply put a racing style seat belt on the psasenger’s side (and maybe on the driver’s side too). That might well provide just as much protection as the airbag, and more reliably and less expensively.
Worn springs and dampers make any car ride terribly.
If you are replacing the dampers, put a new set of springs in there as well. Most people think that springs last forever, but as my materials science professor told me: nothing lasts forever – you’ll learn that in your thermodynamics class.
Metal fatigue will cause springs to lose their “springiness”. This combined with worn dampers will reduce the amount of rebound control when you drive over bumps and potholes. This amplifies the perceived effect of the bumps and potholes.
My pregnant wife prefers driving around in my GTI over our Grand Cherokee – the reason is the ride is stiffer, but more controlled.
-ted
JG, if your wife has to spend a significant amount of time riding in or driving the Explorer, you’re sunk.
I own a vehicle my wife doesn’t like, as far as I can tell because the seat folding mechanisms are too touchy for her or my daughter to operate, and no change to the vehicle will change her dislike. Fortunately:
1. I’m old enough (and married long enough) to put up with the fussing.
2. I drive so much that I’ll only have it as a daily driver for a couple of more years anyway.
Set a $5K budget and find the best, mechanic-checked mid to full-size sedan you can. Consider a minivan, but it will require several thousand more dollars for a given vehicle condition.
Once the baby is born, you’ll hear about how she can’t possibly lift the baby into the Explorer.
Concur on new shocks and springs for the Explorer. It’s a bit of an expense, but worth it, both for comfort and control. My Ranger’s got Bilsteins/Deavers in back, and some fairly gnarly semi-custom stuff in front, but although the ride is firm, my wife doesn’t mind it. However, when she was pregnant, EVERYTHING was evil. Hot hatches, sports cars, trucks, SUVs…there was no winning.
Cheapest solution: have the baby (and have fun!).
Too, if ride height is like our 2001 Jeep GC with UpCountry suspension, ride height is not really a problem for lugging baby around. My wife loves it to pieces, and since we do off road it, and have modified it appropriately, it really is an awesome compromise between family vehicle and off road vehicle.
Stein: as long as you keep the mods sensible (i.e., nothing above 2.5-3 inches of lift), the Jeep will remain quite useable and comfortable around town, but still excel off road.
I’ve found this out from experience: If your wife doesn’t like the car, peddle it. I had a truck that I loved but my wife hated. Every time I wanted to spend a dime on it I felt the hate stare again. And it really should have had even more dimes spent on it than it ever did while I had it.
You know already, I presume, that a car you detest will cost every bit as much to own and operate as one you really like. This also applies if the wife hates it. So have her come along when you go car shopping, or at the very least make sure she’s had input on the decision to buy.
You mentioned shocks/springs, what about new bushings? I upgraded the subframe bushings on my car (after doing shocks/springs) and it made the hard crashy ride smooth as butter. It made a much bigger difference than replacing the shocks and springs even.
JG…..
In all seriousness….find a 2002 Explorer/Mountaineer, maybe with a few more miles than yours…and trade yours in. The 2002-current chassis has an independent rear suspension with coil springs….night and day difference between that one and yours.
That’s the only real answer to your problem…and the price difference shouldn’t be that much, if you find a motivated dealer.
@
# David Holzman :
March 6th, 2009 at 9:51 am
@SXL
Why not simply put a racing style seat belt on the psasenger’s side (and maybe on the driver’s side too). That might well provide just as much protection as the airbag, and more reliably and less expensively.
Hmmm – that’s a nice idea, worth thinking about, and maybe do for real. The route Sajeev sees as required would mean I’d end up with a hybrid 96/97 XJ. (But it really is selfish to have a driver only airbag … maybe I’ll have to go with a 97 version.)
@Ferrygeist
Yes – sensible real world and not cosmetic mods. Replacing the rear and front suspension is usually enough. The up country package added an inch, and had reinforcements in vulnerable areas underneath. Had that on my previous Jeep, and there are rocks on mountain tracks that bear marks from those skidplates.
I really dislike the Grand Cherokees that haven’t been fitted with stiffer suspension underneath – swimming around hanging on to the wheel is not for me.
(This package consists of skidplates for front suspension, transfer case, and fuel tank, revised front and rear springs with 1-inch higher ride height, two front and one left rear tow hooks, 15x7in. tyres with P225/75R15 radial tires, and gas-pressurized shock absorbers. In recent years a 16x7in. wheel option with matching tyres has become available.)
Stein,
That UC equipment is exactly what our GC has–skids, springs and all. However, I replaced the original shocks with MX-6s, which have adjustable compression/rebound (one dial), and which are wonderful. We also upgraded the steering stabilizer (Old Man Emu), tie rod, shock mounts, rear anti-roll bar with poly mounts, added front disconnects to the ARB, tow hitch shackle mount, installed rock sliders, and I invested in a Powertank system (greatest thing ever!); and, of course, really good tires for our uses plus full recovery gear. The whole thing still looks almost completely stock, but is quite capable off road, and supremely comfortable inside.
Major note about safety: I’m only applying what is pretty commonly known as an issue with race/track cars, so maybe my concern is WAY off base for a Jeep, but since you will take it off road, and there’s always a higher chance of rollovers off road, I would strongly recommend NOT to install racing style harnesses. In the fairly remote chance of a roll, a harness that’s been correctly installed and used correctly will keep your body upright, and if the roof is crushed in, it can break your neck, or just flat out kill you. This is why in race/track cars you should never run a harness without a good roll bar in the least, and preferably a cage. In fact, many race sanctioning bodies expressly forbid it in their rules, even if the cars are only for time trialing or lapping.
I knew the B&B would give amazing insight into these technical questions. Thank you all.
One thing about extra cargo in the Exploder: bags of mulch can be safely (probably???) held in the cabin because there are 4 tie down hooks in the floor, so a few bags of mulch + thick plastic sheeting + two towing straps would hold it all down pretty safely.
And if the bags (and sheeting) break in a major accident, the amount of mulch spewing out will be minimized…and whatever comes out will still be soft mulch. Not to mention once you don’t need the vehicle, you can use the mulch in your garden. This town goes thru mulch like NYC consumes Crown Vics.
Ferrygeist : I would strongly recommend NOT to install racing style harnesses. In the fairly remote chance of a roll, a harness that’s been correctly installed and used correctly will keep your body upright, and if the roof is crushed in, it can break your neck, or just flat out kill you. This is why in race/track cars you should never run a harness without a good roll bar in the least, and preferably a cage.
Absolutely. You cannot understate that.
And you can’t overstate it either. ;-)
@ David Holzman and Stein X:
If by “racing-style seat belt” you mean a four-or-five-point harness… Please do NOT EVER PUT ONE OF THOSE INTO A CAR WITHOUT A ROLLCAGE.
Four-and-five-point harnesses hold the passenger’s body upright during impact. When a car rolls, as Explorers and Cherokees can occasionally do, the roof will crush. If your head is held up, you will break your neck and quad-up right there in the car. If you’re lucky, your body won’t release its cargo of feces to spill over your inverted, slack-mouthed dying face.
The inertia-reel single-shoulder-belt system allows enough forward body movement to escape a partially crushed roof. This is really, really important.
A very wise man looked into the passenger compartment of one of my cars once and told me,
“There’s a racing safety system, which consists of belts, helmet, and rollcage, and there’s a street safety system. Don’t ever mix the two.”
One last thing – if you are going to use weights for traction or ride balance, I would use a water filled bladder, like ShurTrax instead of mulch or solid objects.
If you get in an accident with a bladder, the worse that could happen is the bladder breaking open and getting you wet (as opposed to getting decapitated by a flying cinder block).
I suppose you could use mulch, as suggested earlier, but even mulch chunks can be dangerous flying at you at 60mph. Plus, who wants that stinking up your car.
On the weight-in-back issue: this seems like a fairly awkward kludge. Good for a very short term solution–I’ve done it in the Ranger, up in the Owens valley, offroad in snow, etc; rocks and spare tires and whatever else got chucked back there. But as a long term solution? Shock/springs/tires, etc. You may even consider buying smaller wheels, like 15″ steels (cheap, and repairable should you bend them) so you can run a higher profile tire and still maintain safe and correct air pressure (I’m not a fan of airing down on pavement as a comfort solution).
If you must go the route of dead weight, do it the race car ballast way: buy some lead ingots and bolt them to the floor. They won’t become projectiles in the case of an accident and they’ll take up a minimal amount of space.
Good points about the need for a roll bar/cage if you have that kind of harness. You never know when you will roll – though I have had three jeeps previously, and never had it happen, in spite of some tricky trails.
The 97-version, with dual front airbags seems the way to go – though my heart’s in the original Cherokee exterior. It’s in the details, and also in the eye of the beholder.
As to Ferrygeist’s other suggestions – you can turn a GC into a vehicle that handles nicely with such modifications, and it’s not expensive, compared to the feeling of control you’ll gain behind the wheel.
I’ll keep you posted. Even considering dual LPG and gasoline …
What tire pressure does JG use?
Airbags are overrated, unless you’re opposed to seatbelts. Wear the seatbelt and you’ll be fine. You should have seen the head-on highway collision I survived with no airbag in my ’87 Grand Am. Had the driver compartment not completely crumpled and crushed my leg, I wouldn’t have even been seriously hurt. An airbag might even have killed me, as there wasn’t room for one between the steering wheel and my body after the crash. I’m certainly not saying an airbag on a modern car would do the same, as they have passenger compartments that are designed to maintain their shape to protect occupants, but if airbags were an option I’d probably only pay money for the side ones. Well, maybe the driver one too if it’s cheap enough and only activates on serious collisions where it’s not going to cause more damage than it prevents (as one did to my friend on an extremely minor impact). At least a driver’s side airbag might prevent your head from hitting the steering wheel. There’s no way a seatbelt should allow enough movement for the passenger to hit the dash in a collision.
I just checked out NHTSA (the website finally worked!) and the frontal impact scores for the Jeep Cherokee are:
Year/Driver/Passenger
1993-94/3/3
1995-96/4/4
1997-2001/3/3
So the ratings for driver and passenger are the same regardless of airbags, and the 1995 and 1996 models were rated as the safest. 3 stars would be acceptable to me in an inexpensive used vehicle, though I’d prefer to drive something with at least 4 stars. If you truly consider safety a top priority you should probably be looking at something newer, with 4 or 5 star ratings both front and side.
In most cases where there is a driver airbag but no passenger airbag, the ratings are the same. But I did notice that the 1997 Tacoma has a 1 or 2 star driver rating with an airbag, depending on cab configuration, while the airbag-less passenger receives a 3 star rating. There’s a lot more to safety than airbags!
“buy some lead ingots and bolt them to the floor. They won’t become projectiles in the case of an accident and they’ll take up a minimal amount of space.”
Won’t the structure of the vehicle then have to disipate that much more energy in the event of a collision?
A 100kg lead weight traveling at 55mph (24.5 m/s) has a kinetic energy of 30,000 joules. In an impact that extra 30,000 joules of energy will have to be absorbed by the cars structure.
To think of it another way – imagine shooting a 220lb lead slug at an object at 55mph. That’s the kind of force we are dealing with.
jmo: Yikes…physics. Okay, I’m way in the deep end here, but assuming the ballast is secured to the chassis, then the accelerated mass of that ballast would be diffused (is there a better physics term for this?) through the entire multi-thousand pound structure…wouldn’t it? And given that that structure surrounds the occupants, then that energy would be absorbed around the occupants, rather than having that full 30k joules directed into the driver/passenger in a concentrated mass…like a large bullet. In a crash, I know I’d rather add 100 more pounds to the ~3,000 + lbs vehicle I’m travelling in, than have that 100 lbs mass turned in to a projectile accelerating into the back of my head while that same car decelerates rapidly. That’s the reason ballast is bolted in in race cars. Bolted very securely (also, it’s usually at foot level, on the floor, on what would have been the passenger side).
In this case? I’m not sure. I’m hardly an expert.
About Explorer: I had a Ford Ranger, and with it an obligatory bag of cement I used to tie down in the bed! The only real solution though came a couple of years later as i ditched the truck and bought a real car ;)!!
About wifes: I have a deal. She chooses brands on refrigirators and that kind of thing, can paint the wall pink for all I care, but I choose the cars!! Afterall, I’m the one who’ll be maintaining, washing, and driving her car (as she usually gets to drive the newer or bigger car) on trips. So I can listen, but in the end, I decide.
@Ferrygeist
Okay, I’m way in the deep end here, but assuming the ballast is secured to the chassis, then the accelerated mass of that ballast would be diffused (is there a better physics term for this?) through the entire multi-thousand pound structure…wouldn’t it?
You have to consider center of gravity and direction of travel.
When placing ballast in a single-driver race car, you compensate relative to the longitudinal axis, and probably achieve better handling.
Weight bolted far from the CG, and not balanced out by a counterweight, will affect handling when movement occurs across the longitudinal axis. (Weight in the back will give greater throw in a skid, for instance, while not seriously affecting handling when you drive straight ahead, but it will affect braking distance and acceleration.)
Ferrygeist : Yikes…physics. Okay, I’m way in the deep end here, but assuming the ballast is secured to the chassis, then the accelerated mass of that ballast would be diffused (is there a better physics term for this?) through the entire multi-thousand pound structure…wouldn’t it?
And also in that case, wouldn’t a loaded vehicle fare better in a collision with another vehicle…because more inertia is transferred to the other vehicle and now (with the ballast) there is more of it?
Mehta: And also in that case, wouldn’t a loaded vehicle fare better in a collision with another vehicle…because more inertia is transferred to the other vehicle and now (with the ballast) there is more of it?
The more heavily loaded vehicle would slow less and impart more energy on the other vehicle, so the reduced deceleration may be helpful to the loaded vehicles occupants. But the loaded vehicle will also have to absorb more energy in the impact, which could result in more structural deformation. If the deformation is low enough that it does not contribute to injury by causing passenger compartment intrusion, then more weight will help the passengers of the loaded vehicle while causing more harm to the other vehicle. If the collision is severe enough that the passenger compartment deforms, then the weight will increase the degree of deformation. In my collision, an extra few hundred pounds in the trunk or back seat may have been enough to finish me off.