Ryan writes:
I own a 2000 Mazda MPV, 165,000 miles, and it has been a wonderful vehicle up until this winter. Mechanically it is very sound, the motor, tranny and suspension are all very good. While it has been too cold to do anything about it, I have accrued the following list of problems though:
1. Radio went kaput (not a fuse, etc.); needs replacement.
2. Drivers door window gearing broke a tooth: will stick every 4″ when rolling up; needs replacement.
3. Passenger side door lock motor gearing stripped; needs replacement
4. Tires are now 75% gone.
5. Large crinkle in the front left fender (does not interfere with anything).My wife is insisting that we replace the vehicle, so my options seems to be:
1. Fix everything with bone yard parts and sell (I was a mechanic in a past life, would do these repairs myself).
2. Fix nothing and try to sell.
3. Try to get it traded in for our next vehicle.
4. Donate and try to scarf a tax deduction.Your thoughts would be appreciated!
Sajeev replies:
I like options #1 and #4. The cosmetic and interior problems make #2 and #3 a financially poor proposition for a skilled mechanic like you. The MPV sounds like it needs a few minor fixes to be a respectable vehicle. That’s good for you, your buyer, or the person in your community who’d love a reliable vehicle owned by a mechanic. But that begs the question:
Would your wife reconsider if you recondition the MPV, using the money for its replacement on something else? The house always needs help, and college for the kids (minivan, right?) ain’t cheap. Crunch the numbers. I reckon there’s a good reason why TTAC is all gloom and doom on new car sales: even a faithful Mazda minivan is worth keeping these days.
No matter what, fix it and reap the benefits.
Problem #1 is no biggie, a brand name CD player is $100 or less most anywhere, thanks to Wal-Mart, Crutchfield and entrepreneurial stereo shops. The installation kits (dashboard and plug/play wiring adapter) are available from Scosche (or others) for another $30-40. Installation takes 1-2 hours, or less.
Problem #2 is either in the motor or regulator, and some motors have replaceable gears that cost about $10. Check out the “HELP!” aisle at your local parts store, or search the on-line catalog from the Dorman website. I wouldn’t touch Problem #3 unless the buyer wants it, I doubt it adds value if you merely donate. I will let the more experienced readers decide if #4 is worth addressing, as everyone is comfortable with replacing tires, its not gonna turn someone away from the MPV if its priced right.
#5 obviously has to be fixed. I assume the only place to find one (at a reasonable price) is a computerized warehouse/junkyard, as the MPV is new and rare enough to not die at your local Pick ‘N Pull. With any luck, you can find a fender nearby in the same color, so call around until you find it. Remember that paying extra for shipping an exact match is better than painting to match. Unless you know a body guy who will make you a deal, of course.
Once its installed, compound/wax the paint, shampoo the interior fabrics and clean everything. Even the engine. You’ll be ready to flip the MPV for much, much more if you do the elbow grease that car dealers normally do to their hoopties bought at auction.
[Send your automotive conundrums to sajeev.mehta@thetruthaboutcars.com]
This is a tough one. I’m not convinced there’s much of a market for an off-brand van with 150K+ miles on it, regardless of shape.
The financially smart alternative, if the wife agrees, would be to fix the Mazda up and keep it. Instead of a lousy radio, you could get a nice one with iPod interface and upgraded speakers. Add a remote starter, replace the seat fabric, add a cheap DVD player for the kids.
Spending $1000-$1500 on the vehicle now, if it buys you a few more years of life, is definietly worthwhile vs. buying another van. But the owner should keep in mind that even if the drivetrain holds up, he’ll continue to have these niggling issues pop up.
We have a 10 year old van ourselves, which we love because we don’t worry about it getting messy or beat up. With three young kids who think the best dining is done at 30 mph, I would be tearing my hair out of we had a new R350 or Sienna XLE that I constantly had to clean.
Other than the body crinkle, it appears that most items could be fixed (relatively) easily and on the cheap if done by yourself. I’d invest the weekend or two to get as much done as possible without spending a bleeding fortune, then attempt to sell. Trade in will get you bubkis…
If you were a mechanic in a past life, fix the damn thing. None of the parts are expensive, especially if they are from a boneyard. And the bodywork is a couple of hundred bucks. Get some store brand tires (Motomaster SEs from Canadian Tire are a great choice). Then keep it…‘Mechanically it is very sound, the motor, tranny and suspension are all very good.’ are magic words.
While readying my older Protege for sale, I gave it a good once-over with a clay bar and polish. Despite the suspension creaks, I’ve decided to keep it. As others have said, it can be hard to sell a Mazda, and the thing is worth a hell of a lot more to me than I could get for it.
Price a new equivalent purchase, plus tax license fees insurance.
Get estimates of cost to fix what is wrong with your van.
Compare.
Show #s to wife.
Your bank account will love you and your wife will think you are a genius. Then take her out to a nice dinner or a 2nd honeymoon with the money you saved. [Of course then she’ll think you’re having an affair, but… think of the money you’ll save!!!!
]
They changed the rules on the donations. I believe now they allow to deduct only the trade-in price, not the fair market price. For a 10-year old van with 163K and fair to average condition it is, probably, $600-$800. If you assume 25% tax bracket, it leaves you $150-$200.
So it doesn’t make much financial sense. On the other hand, if you know a good charity that would use that van rather than flip it through a (very) used car lot, it might be worth considering for good carma.
If your wife is yearning for that new car smell and feel, after you fix it up, take it to a professional detailer and have him give it a complete detail inside and out. Now I said a professional detailer, not a “shoe shine” boy who operates out of the back of his trunk. Someone who has been in business for a while and has his own truck or shop, who pays his taxes and has insurance. Someone who has the right equipment like a heated extractor and steam cleaner, and professional rotary polishers. If you tell me the general area you live I can look up some for you (yes I am involved in this industry).
After the car is done she may change her mind. If not you get to sell the car for a lot more, expecially if you have the engine detailed.
The sales tax alone on a new vehicle will cost more than your proposed fluff-and-buff.
But on the other hand, there is no price on marital bliss. We don’t know what else is on your spouse’s list of wants and needs. Maybe she wants a new dining room table. So you have to also make sure she understands the alternative cost.
“Yes, we could get a new minivan, but we’d have to wait on the new appliances.”
Alternatively, “Yes, we could get a new minivan, but we’d have to hock your engagement ring.”
Windswords I’d love to know a good detailer in Toronto. I knew a great one, but he moved and is now too far away to be practical.
I dig the donation idea. If you’re doing OK financially, it’s a nice thing to do & takes a lot of complication out of the deal. I donated a crappy old motorcycle I had to the local high school, it was cool, I claimed like a $750 donation (I couldn’t have sold that thing for more than $500), got some tax money back, and supported the community. Sweet.
The best thing is if you set it up right, you just drop off the vehicle, sign it over & walk away. No chasing around, advertising to sell or paying for repairs. Easy-peasy & karma to boot.
If you’ve appreciated the van and it’s still in good mechanical shape, why not throw down a couple grand and keep it? When you think about it, what are you going to get for the $1,500 or so that it would take to make the MPV a nice driver again? On top of that, everyone looking for used cars these days is looking for a steal, and you’re probably not going to get what you’d like to for it. Fix the window, put a decent aftermarket stereo in the dash (I used to buy Kenwood CD decks on eBay for about $85 – new in box!), slap on a set of tires, and drive it until pukes the engine or you just can’t stand it.
I have the same problem, all be it the tranny needs fixing. I am hoping there is some sort of package from the government to scrap old cars (97 honda accord wagon) to stimlate new car sales. In your case, it appears the vehicle is drivable and safe. Who cares about a radio or even a door lock. You have no worries about it getting stolen or having door dings or minor body damage. That’s a huge relief. I would leave it as is, fixing only drivablity and safety issues, and continue to drive it until it will go no further. The money saved and the peace pf mind will be great.
windsward: any suggestions in the Cleveland/Akron area? I’m wanting to get my wife’s car cleaned up since that where our 3 yr old son usually hangs out & makes messes. thanks!!!
Yes! Cleveland/Akron area, please.
Wisest words ever spoken…”The cheapest car to operate is the car you own”. Keep it. I went through the same thing recently with my Miata. Would have cost 2K+- to fix the body work (I drive salty winters), when my sister in law offered me her 100,000km minivan for $1,000. Sold the Miata. Any costs you incur to fix most of those problems won’t be more $ than 1 month’s payment on a new car, so you’d be silly to sell it (respectfully). If you’re really aching for a new car, explain car prices will drop with the glut, and wait it out. Your S/O will forget about it after a while. Dweezil’s suggestion has merit too.
They changed the rules on the donations. I believe now they allow to deduct only the trade-in price, not the fair market price. For a 10-year old van with 163K and fair to average condition it is, probably, $600-$800. If you assume 25% tax bracket, it leaves you $150-$200.
Actually, I thought I read they changed it to only deducting what the charity actually sells it for. Makes the proposition more unpredictable.
I’d fix it and run it a few more years.
John
Sir, there is actually a market for used Japanese cars with approximately 150k miles.
I’ve sold a few Hondas with similar mileage but odler vintage to folks that were heavy commuters. These folks bought 150k mile cars that were in decent running shape, and then ran them for another 100k miles while doing the bare minimum in maintenance.
They bought the cars cheap, so their costs for that 100k miles travelled were very low.
So yes, someone will pay good money for your van.
Do the repairs and sell it would be my choice assuming you have the resources to buy a much better replacement vehicle for cash. If fixing to sell, I wouldn’t put new tires on it if they really still have 25% of their life left.
If, however, the option is to take on a car loan for the new ride … don’t go there.
Fix what you need to or want to and keep it around as a beater. Everyone needs a beater, and old vans make great beaters.
Renew the love affair.
Most responders favor putting in a bit of sweat equity and reaping the benefits. I’d concur if it does not come at the expense of that rare and precious commodity: quality family time.
I’m doing that very thing on a 19 year old you’d swear is just a few years off the showroom floor. Easy things like horn relay, fogged headlight lens, hatch rattle, windshield leak get fixed when I have an hour or two.
Not mentioned is that we have some safety regulations kicking in for the 2010 vehicles that, in my view, are worth passing over the 2007-2009’s for.
Crash ‘n’ Derby!!!
Get your friend to buy another beater and find an empty parking lot. Strap on some helmets and crash into each other repeatedly. Great fun and a good tension diffuser in these difficult times…
My wife is insisting that we replace the vehicle
Let her buy a new car. With her money.
Since the poster is a mechanic, I’d suggest fixing it and keeping it. It wouldn’t make sense to pay retail for those repairs, but that stuff isn’t anything that a good mechanic can’t handle on the cheap.
Selling it isn’t a great option, you won’t get much for it and the needed repairs would scare off a lot of people. If you do sell it, I’d repair the mechanicals and body work, and invest a bit of effort in a good cleanup, but leave the tires and radio for your buyer to deal with.
MickR,
The only detailers I know of in Ontario are Canada Cruisers in Milton. They only do motorcycles. Maybe they can recommend someone who does cars. There number is 905-208-7433.
The Piston Slap feature is quickly becoming my favorite piece on TTAC. Keep up the good work!
And I second Dean’s idea for using it as a demo derby car. Years ago my mother rolled a Toyota Previa (or the egg mobile, as we liked to call it) and she walked away without a scratch, so I’m thinking the Mazda may hold some promise too ;-)
I think that those of you that are singing the praises of “fix ‘er and keep ‘er” are forgetting about the fact that, at some point in the not too distant future, he is still going to be faced with the prospect of having to replace the van or, at least, having to make major repairs (engine, tranny rebuild. Interior will wear out/fall apart as time goes on. Part of the equasion should be: can I actually still get some money out of this now? and Is this a good time to buy, both from what you can get for your dollar AND am I better off now spending now for a new rig or, if I wait 2 more years I will have loan A and loan B paid off.
And Sajeev: did you say clean the engine? You mean with a hose? Might you want to consider a more detailed line on how to go about that these days?
Before making ANY decision, I’d wait to see if this cash-for-clunkers thing happens or not.
windswords :
Know any good detailers in the Boston area?
NickR,
Sorry I forgot one. Scotty’s Shine Shop in London. Scott Perkins is a good guy.
SammyB and ttacfan,
I don’t know any detailers I could reccomend in the Cleveland/Akron area.
I’m with Ralph for the most part.
The fact that the major components are currently running well is not a reason to throw away good money on window cranks and radios. It is a reason to SELL the damn thing while you can still get real money for it, and let someone else take their chances with the engine, transmission, suspension, gas tank, steering rack, etc.
The best you can hope to do by keeping the van at this point is to squeeze a few more miles out of it – and your marriage – without incurring any major expenses. If you decide to go this route, my suggestion is not to fix anything that costs more than $50. Think of it as “character”.
Used mini-vans do not retain a lot of value. Here is what Edmunds has to say:
National Base Price:
Trade-In $2,432, Private Party $3,416, Dealer Retail $4,441,
Mileage Adjustment 165,000 miles: all -$1,216
Condition Adjustment Rough: T-I -$844, PP -$1,170, DR $-1,529.
In my experience Edmunds is optimistic.
You will get the cheapest miles by repairing it and driving it. If the wife wants a new car, I suggest making her watch CNBC for a few hours.
Happy wife, happy life.
Ralph, around my parts that van is only worth between $2000-3000 private party sale, and Ryan’s van would be at the lower end of that scale even if he fixed everything but the fender. If it ever throws and engine or trans it’s going to the scrapper. Hence the suggestion to keep it as a beater.
If Ryan’s going to hang on to it as a spare/beater car then really none of the problems he listed need to be fixed unless they prevent the van from passing inspection. Old minivans are great beaters. They get good enough fuel mileage that you can use them to commute when the commuter is in the shop. Remove or fold down the seats and you can haul all kinds of stuff, and if any of that stuff messes up the interior who cares? It’s a beater. With a max payload of around 1400 lbs it can haul as much as a compact pickup. If Ryan can do most or all of the maintenance and necessary repairs himself, and it his insurance costs are reasonable, it won’t cost much to hang on to.
I would skip options 3 or 4 unless you are left with no other options like a tranny that is slowly crapping out or a soft frame under the vehicle. The dealer will give you next to nothing for this trade. They might show you $1000-2000 but in reality are giving you almost nothing. You could go in on the same vehicle without a trade and buy said car for the same or even less without the trade to negotiate. A clean deal is always the best way to buy from a dealer. The mechanics of the vehicle are by your description are all still sound so you may just want to prioritize what is most important to fix.
The krinkle in the front fender would be last on my fix list. The tires are very important. When down that far in lost tread you are more suseptable to picking up nails or getting a flat or overheating a tire going at highway speeds. next would be the window regulator. You can pick up one of those in the bone yard or price it out at your local parts store and do the job yourself. The radio would come next if you like to be entertained or need it to identify upcoming bad weather and such. This is a real easy fix. Check Ebay for a radio if you want OEM equipment. Tons of kids swap out factory radios for aftermarket units and the OEM versions are sometimes very cheap to buy. The lock actuator really isn’t a big deal, it just means you have to lock the door manually. Again the bone yard should have these cheap and it is easy to install.
You can get a better radio than was in the car for cheap new, just like Sajeev said. For the other parts, check out car-part.com, It is a computerized index of used parts you can find from different junk yards. It even sorts them by price.
thetopdog,
Hopefully this is not too far from you:
Jim Goguen
Jim’s Auto Installations & Detailing Center
978-356-7372
5 Washington St, Ipswich MA 01938
Dump it. You obviously are tired of the vehicle and want to move on and you’re looking for an excuse. None of the problems are hard or expensive to fix and I would consider them minor tweaks common to older vehicles. Pick option 4 and get a new vehicle. If you haven’t fixed the minor problems as they occurred you’re not motivated to do them now.
windswords:
Thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate it
Definitely keep it. A new radio, good detailing, the mechanical issues fixed and perhaps—if you want to splurge—reupholstering will cost less and go a long way to renewing the love.
Leather, a navigation system and a a thorough shampooing work wonders.
If you were having significant problems, like a pending engine or transmission failure, then maybe not, but this is small stuff.
One or both of you working for Dad so you are convinced you will never get laid off? Dad may be closer to locking the doors than you think.
If selling it then matching the money you got for it gets you equal to or less than what you have now, you’ve thrown away a bunch of money.
Again, renew the love affair and start saving up that monthly payment you are not having to make. In a year or so you will get about the same out of it and also have a much better down payment which means smaller payments and shorter loan period.
I agree with Lenny that a newer vehicle is in Ryan’s pretty near future.
My view would be to detail the car, fix problems 1, 2, and 3 and drive it until winter. If nothing major breaks before it gets cold, and you aren’t too sick of the car yet, fix problem 4.
I don’t see the payback in fixing problem 5.
I don’t see the payback in fixing problem 5.
The need for body work is probably the main psychological motivation for dumping the car. Since it looks nasty, there’s a desire to get rid of it.
The fact that the major components are currently running well is not a reason to throw away good money on window cranks and radios. It is a reason to SELL the damn thing while you can still get real money for it
It’s the opposite situation. The car isn’t worth anything, as it is already almost fully depreciated.
The math is this: You either pay for the costs of repairing the car for a cost of X and get life of N months/years out of it, or else you buy a new car, pay the taxes and higher insurance and registration costs of the newer vehicle, and buy the depreciation that goes with having it.
The first year’s depreciation of the new car probably exceeds the repair costs of the old one. That probably makes fixing the old one a better financial choice, assuming that the rest of it is in decent shape.
A mechanically sound vehicle can be worth keeping. Personally, I’d reduce the insurance coverage on it to liability only, in order to save money; carrying comprehensive on a vehicle like this is a waste of money.
Any leads on a good detailer in the Norfolk/Virginia beach area. I have a 1998 Windstar that is similar to the OPs and could use a great detail.
Pch101 : The need for body work is probably the main psychological motivation for dumping the car. Since it looks nasty, there’s a desire to get rid of it.
And by the same token, nobody’s gonna pay more than scrap value for this ride if the fender looks like crap.
Retail buyers are picky. Hence why they purchase from car dealers and pay (often stupid insane) rates for both new and used cars.
As Chris Rock says, you gotta turn that Old P*ssy into New P*ssy. Fix it up and keep it.
@pch101
As a native of NYC of a certain age, I have a certain cynicism about body repairs.
Growing up in a place where any car with over 75K miles had at least one mismatched body panel will do that.
As has been written before Dude, fix up the brat mobile and keep it. But if were me, I’d make sure to splurge for the “ManVan” vanity plates…they’ll help to offset those “turtle family” stickers your woman put on the back hatch.
PS: If, after several minutes of repairs, you can not go forward with your retrofit, I suggest you look into a 2-3 year old Chrysler product. I see Grand Caravans in the newspaper (yeah, real ink and everything) for like $9K. And, since you are handy and stuff, you could graft a “VW” onto the grill and you’d instantly get German handling. Awesome deal, especially if you have the windows tinted so that other people can’t see you driving it.
Peace, Out, Yo!
Samuel Hagar
maxnharry,
Squeeky Clean Mobile Car Wash & Detailing
Virgina Beach
757-343-4030