As the Motown meltdown rushes towards its not-so-final denouement, a clear meme is emerging: blame the bankers. Last week, Detroit News columnist Daniel Howes suggested that Americans will finger Wall Street suits for Chrysler’s collapse. It was an odd not-to-say-jarring proposition—given that Chrysler’s management has done just about everything it could do destroy the automaker’s rep save impregnating car seats with swine flu. Ditto GM. And there’s a darker side to this idea, which I’ve previously resisted mentioning. I believe this line of thinking raises the specter of ye olde “international Jewish banking conspiracy.” I know, I know. Call me a paranoid fantasist (I’ve been called worse). But try reading this Automotive News “analysis” from an anti-Semite’s perspective: “The debate over the U.S. government’s bid to reshape the American auto industry through bankruptcy comes down to this: the spreadsheets of a handful of former investment bankers pitted against the street sense of thousands of U.S. auto dealers fighting to survive.”
Here’s something from this article I find a little disquieting:
The autos task force led by former investment bankers Steve Rattner and Ron Bloom has driven GM and Chrysler to slash costs and cut debt—through bankruptcy if needed.
As you may or may not know, Rattner and Bloom are Jewish. Well, if you didn’t know it, or care one way or another, some people do. Here’s a comment posted on the neo-Nazi stormfront.org re: Rick Wagoner’s forced resignation: “Rat-faced Jew Steven Rattner is Obama’s ‘chief auto industry adviser’, so yes, he probably did make the call for Wagoner to resign.”
I’m not accusing Automotive News of anti-Semitism. But scribe David Bailey should have realized there ARE anti-Semites out there, and that his article could serve as ammunition for these people. Not so very long ago, “blame the bankers” was a pass-code for anti-semitic vitriol.
And since Chrysler’s dissolution and GM’s implosion aren’t the bankers fault, and as the two gentlemen named seem to be bending over backwards to bailout the unbailoutable, why go there?
Anyway, Bailey’s main point: bankruptcy, whether impending or actual, hurts GM sales. For this I paid a subscription?
[NOTE: I’m turning off TTAC’s anti-flaming policy—towards the site–for this blog post. If you’d like to comment about my editorial choices in running this piece, please feel free.]
Even Hollywood got in on the act with “The International”.
:-(
Let’s not go there. Farago, I think you were right the first time about Howes’ assertion: the general public will NOT blame the bankers but rather Chrysler and GM management. This, of course, will be increasingly true as one moves further away from the Detroit epicenter of job destruction. In reality, the cry of anti-semitism (or communism or terrorism) is used more often as a useful political tool than as a true clarion call of danger.
This seems a bit of a reach. I highly doubt there’s much to fear of an anti-Semetic pogrom in the US.
Wake me when Father Coughlin starts broadcasing again.
” “The debate over the U.S. government’s bid to reshape the American auto industry through bankruptcy comes down to this: the spreadsheets of a handful of former investment bankers pitted against the street sense of thousands of U.S. auto dealers fighting to survive.””
1) This is 2009… not 1909.
2) Race is a myth. Not a reality.
3) I doubt they’re playing the race card. The former investment bankers are simply looking at the numbers that the dealers have been largely able to ignore for the last four years.
Finally, the only bankers that will have a real long-term impact on this country’s well-being are the Chinese ones… and that’s because they’re the only ones inheriting our debt… for now.
Wall Street’s on a substantial decline, London’s on a steep decline, and as of yet I have seen little evidence that Israel’s stock exchange is ready to take over the world. I will say that they’re far more successful than the enlightened souls of Stormfront.
Meanwhile there are going to be thousands of tiny little parachutes for folks who have truly not earned their keep. Most of them are…. Americans… who are all too willing to screw the taxpayer and our kids for their own well-being.
As long as politicians have the ‘trillion dollar debt’ card to payoff their constituents, the snowfall on top of the leaky old house is just going to get bigger.
Even if anti-semites do use this as part of their ranting, should we really let that affect how we produce and report the news? I doubt any article could be made immune from the ideology of groups like this.
As for people blaming bankers and not Chrysler, I think the market has spoken. Even with a VW logo, people don’t like Chryco products. Its not like they canceled Star Trek, Chysler is going under while offering (in the best small car market in the U.S. in decades, see mini) the Caliber. Good ridence.
“International Jewish Banking Conspiracy” ? I mean, you get phrases like “man they jewed me on that last deal” for a reason (Madoff, Bronfman, Herb & Marion Sandler, George Soros, etc.) , but I think that’s as much resonance as you’re going to get.
@Steven Lang: It’s not a race so much as it is a culture.
Sorry RF, this is a reach. Your proof that people are blaming the Jews is a Neo-Nazi forum? These are the same people that blame the Jews for their lost car keys.
Fact is, there are always going to be people who blame another group for their shortfalls.
I mean, is it really inconceivable that a bailout-fueled backlash against bankers could spread hatred against Jews?
For the vast majority of Americans, yes. Most Americans realize the reason GM and Chrysler failed lies entirely within their organizations. There will always a small, but vocal minority that will blame something else, whether it be the Jews, unpatriotic Americans, aliens, etc. But that doesn’t mean their viewpoint holds water and it doesn’t mean anyone but the small group who subscribes to those theories will believe it.
Happy_Endings
I hear you. But it’s not a “reach” in the sense that I’m looking for a problem. As I mentioned in this post, I refrained from injecting the possibility of anti-semitism into TTAC’s coverage. But there comes a point where you have to yell “theater” in a crowded firehouse (hat tip to Woody Allen).
As for your faith in Americans’ fair-mindedness, I’m inclined to agree. But a good journalist believes that trust must be accompanied by verification. Actually, a good journalist trusts no one and nothing. But you know what I mean.
Wall Street bankers deserve zero sympathy, be them Jewish, Gentile, or Muslim.
We’ve seen how well things work when they are not kept on a short leash. After receiving trillions and trillions in bailouts from the Treasury, Federal Reserve, etc., it makes you wonder who really runs the country. Wall St. and Washington has an incestuous relationship, which is why the founding fathers wanted limited government to avoid political influence by the wealthy.
While I’m not saying I support Detroit bailouts, what Detroit has received is pocket lint compared to the blank checks and currency manipulation done for Wall Street, and your children and grandchildren will be working for the Chinese and Arabs to pay all of that off.
There are people that still believe in trilateral commission and black helicopters. There will always be racist people in society, we’re not going to fix that. I wouldn’t worry about a very small minority.
Robert,
I appreciate your concern regarding the possibility of blame being laid at the feet of Jews, but I don’t see it happening. The lunatic fringe will ALWAYS be with us, but let those outliers hang themselves with their ignorance and let them keep talking. No better disinfectant than sunlight.
Look what happened after 9/11 – the vast majority of Americans didn’t look at their Muslim neighbors thinking they were terrorists. I recall hearing about a few incidences on planes (out of thousands of flights/day). Again, there are, as PCH101 and others pointed out, ideologically pure people, but their ideas don’t stand up to scrutiny.
So, the site that posts a gratuitous pic of Hitler to have a good laugh about VW’s quest to become the world’s no. 1 automaker is now suddenly sensitive to Jewish concerns? Hand-wringing about anti-Semitism?
Or, alternatively, is a site that becomes orgasmic at the thought of American automotive bankruptcies attempting to paint those who hold a contrary view as anti-Semites, or at least latent anti-Semites?
I think the latter holds far more truth than the former.
The truth about the bailout and Chrysler is this: Chrysler’s main creditor body were the recipients of no-strings billions upon billions from the Feds — necessary because they totally mismanaged themselves — yet these same welfare queens are now sticking the shiv in Chrysler and being all free-markety about it.
So, yeah, I can see the guys on the line who are gonna take it in the neck being a little peeved. I don’t know if it’ll be peaceful demonstration peeved or roll-out the National Guard peeved, but I doubt anyone will just shrug their shoulders and say “oh, that’s too bad.”
But, you know as well as I do, no one will spray paint “JUDEN” on the JPMorgan Chase building in downtown Detroit. And your implication that anti-Semitism might have anything at all to do with the Detroit News or Automotive News articles is repugnant — and very transparent.
Or you’re reading way too much into it.
Everyone knows there is a sub-text to the word “Banker”, as there is to the term “Hollywood.” There is no escaping that many people will be looking to place blame. Some will blame the undocumented Mexicans, some will blame Unions, some will blame the Jews.
The reasons for the decline in the domestic auto industry are unstable energy supplies and prices; raising health care costs for the domestic auto makers; poor product planning and execution; outdated labor and pension contracts with unions.
Of these, energy speculation and raising health care costs can be partially attributed to Wall Street. The rest of the problems lay with the auto makers and unions and dealerships.
Most of all, the reason for the collapse is the global economic crisis. People realize that cars have too great a dependency on petroleum. And working people are wondering if future cars will be designed and made here or in China.
Ultimately, can the fate of domestic car makers be compared to the fate of the spotted owl? Is this an indicator for the fate of the U.S. economy as the owl is an indicator for the health of the forests?
This goes beyond the pale I’m afraid. Can we now say the decimation of GM and Chryco are because the UAW is xx% african-american and they would rather sit around and eat chicken and watermelon all day. Sheesh, this is the strangest turn I’ve seen the Bail Out Watch take.
Not all investment bankers are Jewish, contrary to popular belief. Hell, there are probably more Lutherans on Wall Street than Jews. Jews have always been the whipping boy for the Europeans…second class citizens who weren’t allowed to own land….or much of anything for that matter.
Detroit (not just the industry) has a history of anti-Semitism, most notably by Henry Ford. I have studied this well….probably more than anyone on here. A lot of it had to do with lack of communication and education combined with strict religious (read: batshit crazy) moral codes. However, this wasn’t just a Detroit thing….it was an east coast WASP thing. Even when the smallest things happened…Jews were blamed.
Of course, we all know about crazy Henry and his anti-Semite views…..yet he sent Rabbi Leo Franklin a new car almost every year and utilized Albert Kahn’s architectural skills. Hell, many even accuse of GM and Alfred P. Sloan of working with Hitler prior to the outbreak of WW2….might be true actually. However, if GM had such an anti Jewish view at the time, it wouldn’t have has Meyer Prentis as their top money man for decades.
taxman100 said: “After receiving trillions and trillions in bailouts from the Treasury, Federal Reserve, etc., it makes you wonder who really runs the country. Wall St. and Washington has an incestuous relationship…”
funny, as I think of the above, I realize that Ike warned of the wrong thing, the “Military-Industrial-Complex”, when he should have warned of the “Political-Financial-Complex”…
firedoglake.com will be over this meme, fo sho.
BTW, did anyone watch the end of the Talladega race today? Oh. My. Gawd…
The simple reason for the world market problems is due to white collar crime.
Banks OVER LEVERAGED and they attempted to use mortgage backed securities to get more money from investment.
AIG for example conspired with European banks to get them to declare more capital than they really had.
So naturally when things blew up the super rich planted the idea in our heads that:
#1 it was all America’s fault
#2 it was minorities using subprime loans fault
#3 it was a zionist conspiracy to bring about a new world order and single world currency.
As far as I’m concernced, any one who gets their answers from cable news networks has NO IDEA what they are talking about when they mention “their ideas” as to why America and the world is in financial crisis.
Let me make it simpler than that.
#1 America and Europe used credit to purchase junk from China that they couldn’t afford on their own dime.
#2 America and Europe defaulted on their credit while simultaneously, elswhere, the credit lenders were using their excessive credit spending to get rich, and the governments were using their credit spending to make it appear that their economy was growing when that growth was actually fake credit growth that would never be repaid. This especially came in handy if you wanted to make it appear you were doing a good job when you weren’t (George W Bush)
#3 Fears of bank Nationalization have caused stockholders to pull their money out of the bank forcing them into collapse. Apparently if the government nationalizes a bank, the shareholders are zeroed out.
Blame the Jews?
NO…blame the people who set up a system where imaginary money (credit) which has absolutely nothing backing it, can be repaid by a FIAT currency (cash that has absolutely nothing backing it – since the Gold standard was ousted) which has to be earned by people who are accepting increasingly shitty jobs and increasingly shitty wages because the corporations have outsourced to vertiable slaves to do their work at 1/10th the price.
You can disagree with me – that’s fine, but I’ve made a fortune as a mortgage broker (I don’t even have to work ever again if I want to quit now) – and I think I know what I’m talking about.
Robert Farago
I just want to thank you again for featuring me with my HELOC loan advice and secondly:
There is always a reason for these people to be anti simitic. After all, they are still blaming Jews for 9/11.
Stormfront is just as bad as FOX news and most other conservative media. They do their best to shut out people who speak up against their views and they spout absolute bullshit that some people are desperate and foolish enough to take seriously.
GM, Ford and Chrysler are failing because they produced crappy cars and dumped on customers for decades. Consumers rejected them en masse. Nimble competitors produce desirable, high quality, good performing cars and look after their customers. Nobody sane will buy a Detroit car at a profitable price.
The unintended consequence of labeling everything “anti-Semitic” is the devaluation of its meaning. If everything is anti-Semitic, nothing is anti-Semitic. Redefinition does not alter reality.
RF
This time I think and hope your intuition is wrong. I am not Jewish and cannot claim many friends that are, but it does not take a scholar to notice they are often the best scapegoats around. Not this time, unless their is a secret cabal from Yeshiva that was designing the Neon and handling GM warranty issues. When I get an Email about that, I will let you know.
However, I do know some folks who are quick to blame certain groups for everything they do not like, from the weather, their digestion to taxes. Those folks are so busy with Obamamania in reverse, they do not have time to blame the usual suspects for the demise of Chrysler and GM. Besides that, the three I could sign up for a one way trip to Paraguay drive Mercedes and Nissans .
“I’m not accusing Automotive News of anti-semitism. But scribe David Bailey should have realized there ARE anti-semites out there, and that his article could serve as ammunition for these people.”
Robert,
I’m a big fan of this site, but this entry is entirely hypocritical. How can you say that AN’s article might incite anti-semitism when you go out of your way to connect the dots for anti semites by stating the creed of these bankers. Stating that you are just reporting the news by linking to an uknown racist blog is not good journalism. You’re simply (perhaps unknowingly) giving legs to a story that has none.
However, I appreciate your relaxing the anti-flame policy for this blog entry and it indicates your appreciation of the sensitivity of this blog entry. I remain a fan of TTAC, it’s editors (including RF, of course) and its best and brightest.
John
Flashpoint :
April 26th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Stormfront is just as bad as FOX news and most other conservative media. They do their best to shut out people who speak up against their views and they spout absolute bullshit that some people are desperate and foolish enough to take seriously.
So Conservatives are no better than Neo-Nazi Skinheads?
What a despicable comment.
I’m embarrassed to admit it, but, I’d put my dad – not in Semite group – but a firm member of the Jewish banking conspiracy club.
Dad’s got an Ivy League PhD, BTW. Physics. No redneck here. Just perfect.
Ever since the bank bailouts started he’s been making the comments ‘see they’re just taking care of themselves – at our expense…’
As far as the auto bailouts go, he does not see a difference between car companies and bankers – It’s all ‘big business’ and ‘country clubs’. Bottom line: there is no convincing these kinds of believers otherwise.
He knows not to discuss these kind of topics with me, but last year he could not resist “So, how can you not say this is all a Jewish setup from the gitgo?’ My response “When Warren Buffet starts complaining, then I’ll believe it, until then, I think you’re full of shit.”
Robert, there is an undercurrent of anti-semitism among the conspiracy-theory set and the far left&right wingiest of wings, so no, you’re not wrong to be sensitive to this. Sad, but true. We should all be ready to push back on it whenever see it.
There are jews that need a kick in the ass…and there are bloggers that need a kick in the ass for their tactics to increase readership… Hail Farago.
“So Conservatives are no better than Neo-Nazi Skinheads?
You have it backwards. Flashpoint is saying that Neo-Nazis are almost as bad as conservatives.
Hey, let’s give credits to the right car company, or at least the right man: Henry Ford. The infamous Anti-Semitic screed, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion , was first published in the United States in its original antisemitic form was in 1920 in “The Dearborn Independent”, a newspaper owned and controlled by Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company….
Henry Ford sponsored the printing of 500,000 copies, and, from 1920 to 1922, published a series of antisemitic articles entitled “The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem,” in The Dearborn Independent, a newspaper he owned. In 1921, Ford cited evidence of a Jewish threat: “The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are 16 years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time.”[42] In 1927, however, the courts ordered Ford to retract his publication and apologize; he complied, claiming his assistants had duped him. Later in life, however, he expressed his admiration for Nazi Germany.[43]
Oh well….
If it WAS the Jews that destroyed GM, it was a pretty subtle and sophisticated plot…
Hmmmm let me look at the nose on those Azteks again…...
ravenchris
In terms of “sensationalism for sensationalism’s sake” (i.e. pandering), I stand by my record as a publisher. Every editorial decision I make is informed by my desire to satisfy the brand promise inherent in the site’s name.
In other words, this blog is not a stunt.
John Horner:
I don’t think ANYONE would accuse TTAC of taking it easy on Rattner. My main beef here is the conflation of which you speak. I think anyone who hints at a banking conspiracy against “Main Street”—especially one that doesn’t exist—should be aware that there’s more than a little history here. As Mr. Dean has pointed out.
There is a strong current of anti-banker sentiment in society right now, but let us not confuse that with antisemitism.
There is a long historic conflation of bankers and Jews, but I don’t think that has much, if anything, to do with what is going on here and now.
BTW, few people realize that the reason so many Jews throughout history have been bankers is that for many centuries the Christian church prohibited the charging of interest on loans. Also, Jews were marginalized by law into only the most “unclean” professions, including being a money lender. Thus banking in Europe was long primarily in the hands of Jews who were not prohibited from making loans w/interest to Christians. The word usury today is taken to mean the charging of excessive interest, but the old meaning of the word was charging any interest at all. Wikipedia has a pretty good overview of the topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loans_and_interest_in_Judaism
The nut job neo-Nazis are of course out there, but I don’t think anyone should be shy about criticizing Rattner, et. al. simply because doing so gives fuel to the nut jobs.
Basically, everyone is looking for someone else to blame for the mess we are in. No one wants to accept responsibility for their fruckups. Let’s blame those lazy commie UAW workers, or those Jew bankers, or those greedy assholes living in Michigan.
Well you can’t blame the people that voted for lots of government spending and easy credit. Nobody wants to look in the mirror and see the cause.
So you need a scapegoat and it ain’t gonna be Barney Frank.
Wall Street bankers deserve zero sympathy, be them Jewish, Gentile, or Muslim.
Technically speaking, aren’t Muslims gentiles?
paris-dakar :
April 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Flashpoint :
April 26th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Stormfront is just as bad as FOX news and most other conservative media. They do their best to shut out people who speak up against their views and they spout absolute bullshit that some people are desperate and foolish enough to take seriously.
So Conservatives are no better than Neo-Nazi Skinheads?
Conservatives and Republicans are apelike, brainless buffoons out to give AmeriKKKa a huge blowjob for killing Muslims and wolves like myself. I am a lupine-American and I can say with absolute certainty that Republicans are a pox upon my race. In Wyoming they fight to make it legal to shoot me on site. In Alaska they shove oil derricks up my ass. In Texas they also shove oil derricks up my ass and then scream in my ear with obnoxious Texan accents. In Florida they are Floridians.
To hell with Republicans and all like them. Now excuse me whilst I go watch some Bill Maher.
There are jews that need a kick in the ass…and there are bloggers that need a kick in the ass for their tactics to increase readership… Hail Farago.
More like heil Farago, amirite? GODWIN FTW
IMO, the rabbit hole we find ourselves in comes back to the banks. How, you ask? Quite simple – giving GM and Chrysler an extended lease on life (if only a few months) was done to protect Wall Street’s considerable investment in those companies. Viewed in this context, it’s quite logical why TARP funds were deployed in this manner.
I don’t see any racism implied by those who express dismay at the flagrant corporatism evident in the banking bailout. People react in different ways to shattered worldviews.
Considering the article Farago quotes is “Automotive News” it’s hardly an objective piece about the state of the auto industry. I don’t know what the writer’s (David Bailey) track record is regarding racism, etc. Perhaps the editors at Automotive News have sunk to new journalistic lows for publishing such drivel.
The AN article by Mr. Bailey might as well have also said that the entire Presidential Task force is Black, Jewish, gay, Muslim, disabled, or whatever. It’s a pointless exercise, and only makes the writer and AN’s editors look foolish and fanatical, not credible.
I used to read the print edition of AN but always resisted paying a subscription for their online content. I’m not likely to ever subscribe now.
clive
To be fair, the piece is clearly labeled “analysis.” And Automotive News is still the best source for automotive news. (Bloomberg, WSJ, DetN are all close seconds).
The Luigiian: “Conservatives and Republicans are apelike, brainless buffoons out to give AmeriKKKa a huge blowjob for killing Muslims and wolves like myself. I am a lupine-American and I can say with absolute certainty that Republicans are a pox upon my race. In Wyoming they fight to make it legal to shoot me on site. In Alaska they shove oil derricks up my ass. In Texas they also shove oil derricks up my ass and then scream in my ear with obnoxious Texan accents. In Florida they are Floridians.
To hell with Republicans and all like them. Now excuse me whilst I go watch some Bill Maher.”
What?
Dude, no. It comes off as LinkBait and just really being too naïve about the eternal genetic crapshoot output of x% nutcases out of all ppl.
There were plenty of gentiles involved in securities fraud, bad decisions and bad management along with everyone else.
-Here’s a great article by Michael Lewis at Portfolio.com: http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom
-And one on how bad many brokers are by Blaine Lourd: http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2007/11/19/Blaine-Lourd-Profile
@taxman100: (+ re: Blaine Lourd piece) I concur. Many finance people, including the all-WASP-student classes I was in, deserve little sympathy.
++@RF, watch out!: Jon Stewart might just be an Anti-Semite for mentioning that Robert Rubin (jew) is a guy who helped the repeal of CDS/CDO rules of Glass-Steagal under Clinton.
@Jimal:
I’m messing with you guys.
The Luigiian :
April 27th, 2009 at 12:09 am
@Jimal:
I’m messing with you guys.
I figured you were. The first moonbat seemed dead serious though.
RF said: “I think anyone who hints at a banking conspiracy against “Main Street”—especially one that doesn’t exist … ”
Hmmm, you don’t think Wall Street’s tycoons take a screw the little guy if you can get away with it attitude? You don’t think they look for every possible personal advantage without regard for how it might negatively impact “main street”? A conspiracy need not be formal to be effective.
I think RF that this is an irrelevant reply to an irrelevant article.
Analyzing the fix that has gotten a hold of the auto industry is like trying to find a solution to the Israeli/Palestinian peace process.
and in anycase, blaming the bankers is futile, it’s both Chrysler and GM’s fault to start with….
however i always curse the bankers (whatever their allegiance god or money mostly the latter) anyway, if that makes a difference…. because this economic mess in the general term did start with a few greedy ones of that species….
Maddoff proved point in fact that the ‘they take care of one another’ theory is not always fact. He did for Jewish finance what Bin Ladin did for Airlines.
If Jews were subliminally in covert ops w/in Motown, let’s talk about some of the clues.
“Hmmmm let me look at the nose on those Azteks again……” So the Aztec, and I do find it suspicious that so many Aztecs were donned in Heib flavored austentatious yellow.
The Tahoe/Sub took on some Jewish lines over last seasons model chane (so keep that in notebook)
Chrysler made a perfect car for the Jewish American Princess (convertible seabring) affordable, classy/trashy, WITH dual vanity mirrors.
Dodge mega cab lariat with full bells (and rebates), is still cheaper than a ford FAR SUPEROR fuel economy. There are strong rumors in the jewish community that the diesel mega cab is slated for stardom with this man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvXQzL4uBBM&feature=related in Mel Brooks latest works “Jewish Cowboy”
RF, you are off your rocker on this one, but did give me some good material. I want someone to write a 30 second car ad for a car marketed only to jewish american princesses. Winner gets whatever Farago wants to give them.
Farago, this is obviously a hot topic for you. I googled your name and Jewish and came up with this article Robert Farago on Ralph Lauren: He’s A Jew.
http://carpundit.typepad.com/carpundit/2005/04/robert_farago_o.html
If it’s any consolation I’m a big Howard Stern fan and he’s half jew, and I made love to a jewish gal once back in high school (she had great tits, and her dad was rich)
All jokes aside, you are one of THE BEST writers not just in auto, but on the web. You remind me of Colin Cowherd (ESPN sportscaster) but on cars. It’s easy for me to say that you should laugh off some of these sterotypes and not taking it to heart. But, If this fuels the pain/tragedy that inspires your writing, then by all means!
Your biggest fan, and I mean that. I tell people about your site daily
I love how people are angry at the fact I compared Fox News with Stormfront.
Here’s an idea.
Lets find out who uses Stormfront and who watches Fox News/conservative media and lets cross the name list to find out who’s on both lists
HAHAHAHAH
Cause you know they are the exact same people (at least the Americans are).
Not many liberals on a neo-nazi White nationalist website.
Before WWII, the US had a real Nazi party(not the neo variety), it was known as the German-American Bund. At its zenith in the 1930’s, the Bund had thousands of members. They even had a large campground in Andover, NJ called Camp Nordland. With American entry into WWII in 1941, most the Bundists were placed in interment camps(concentration camps without the gas chambers) or sent to prisons.
There is no viable neo-Nazi movement in the US and there never was. The closest thing to a viable neo-Nazi organization was a group put together by one George Lincoln Rockwell. Rockwell’s group never had more than a few dozen members, and it fell apart after Rockwell was assassinated by one of his own adherents. I’ve run into quite a few “neo-Nazis” at gun shows. The majority of these people have some very obvious physical, and or, mental defects. Most of them would have been rejected for service by the Wehrmacht during WWII.
I wouldn’t worry about people ranting on Stormfront, or other similar boards Most of these people have zero influence in society. Besides, I really don’t think it is possible to rabble rouse in the US in that manner. The average American no longer has any meaningful tribal affiliations. That, combined with decades of mind destroying TV and cheap beer, have created a people have no choice but to maintain the status quo.
Finally, the logic of the Stormfront crowd falls apart when confronted with one key fact. Israel is entirely dependent for it’s existence on US support. Without the US standing in its corner, Israel wouldn’t last 5 minutes. If “Jew bankers” really were plotting to destroy the US, they’re plotting the genocide of millions of their coreligionists in Israel as well.
Technically speaking, aren’t Muslims gentiles?
Technically speaking (University of Michgan, Studies in Religion) gentiles are heathens. While the term has come to mean non-Jew, it originally meant heathen or pagan.
I once inadvertently offended a Jamaican coworker when I called her a “gentile”. She got incredibly indignant and said, “I’m am not a gentile. I’m a good churchgoing Christian woman.” A bit flummoxed I went to the site library (it was a r&d lab) and sure enough the unabridged dictionary showed me that she was right.
I love how people are angry at the fact I compared Fox News with Stormfront.
That’s because you’re an ass, and a deliberately ignorant one at that.
You’re also an ignoramus.
Not many liberals on a neo-nazi White nationalist website.
Hmmm. When Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant were forced to submit to the Canadian Human Rights Council’s star chamber like proceedings, it was revealed that HRC staffers routinely posted racist and anti-semitic postings on neo-Nazi sites. It’s not clear if the HRC staffers are actually bigots (since they try to prosecute Jews and Christians but never Muslims) or they were just being “Mobys”, but it’s a documented fact.
“But try reading this Automotive News ‘analysis’ from an anti-Semite’s perspective. . . I’m not accusing Automotive News of anti-Semitism. But scribe David Bailey should have realized there ARE anti-Semites out there, and that his article could serve as ammunition for these people. Not so very long ago, “blame the bankers” was a pass-code for anti-semitic vitriol.”
So now newspapers have to edit / manipulate what they print so that people with extreme preconceived prejudices don’t misinterpret it?
That’s a lot of hand wringing political correctness from a website fighting for the truth.
If anyone is worried about a Jewish conspiracy: Henry Paulson, the corrupt scum bag who engineered TARP and scared the crap out of Congress to pass it without thinking. Who helped out his old firm, Goldman Sachs, at your expense by letting it convert to an FDIC insured bank holding company, giving it billions in TARP money, and, worse, by bailing out AIG so AIG could pay off the tens of billions in credit default swaps that Goldman speculated on with AIG.
Not a Jew, a Christian Scientist.
Howes isn’t doing anything wrong. Any excuse will serve a Jew hater. They blame us simultaneously for being communists and capitalists, insular and infiltrating.
I say that as a fairly intensively Jewishly involved Jew who has worked professionally for a Jewish advocacy non-profit.
Just because Jew haters knee jerk to the word “banker” you don’t have to, Robert.
In fact, some of the biggest problem banks, BoA, Wells Fargo, WaMu, and investment firms like Merril Lynch, don’t seem to have Jewish CEOs and they certainly weren’t started by Jews like Lehman or Lazard.
Much of the financial meltdown involves insurance companies, which have traditionally not hired Jews for anything other than sales or accounting.
John Horner,
The irony of Christian Europe’s economic restrictions on Jews (could not own land, could not join trade guilds, couldn’t live in certain areas) is that it may have contributed to the industrial revolution.
It may also explain the technological and economic stagnation of the Muslim world for the past few centuries. While church laws prohibited charging interest, Christians could pay interest to non-Christians. Islamic shariah law prohibits the paying of interest (hence “Islamic mortgages” that calculate the total value of the loan including interest, call it all principal, and then treat it like a simple no-interest loan), so venture capital was essentially not possible in the Muslim world.
While Christians could not lend money to each other for interest because of Church prohibitions on usury, they could borrow money from Jews. Venture capital is a vital part of any economy.
About 2100 years ago, a rabbi named Hillel (though some say his solution is in fact biblically sourced) came up with what is known as a “prozbol” to get around the biblical prohibition of interest (loaning money to those who need it is a positive commandment in the Torah but you can’t charge interest – hence the many Hebrew Free Loan associations in the US). Instead of calling it a loan and calculating interest, lenders and borrowers start a business partnership and the dissolution terms take care of profitability for the “lender”.
BTW, Jewish involvement in the gem and precious metals businesses is also partly attributable to anti-semitism. When you know there is a real possibility that your family might get thrown out of your native country (Jews have been expelled from virtually every country in Europe – When Shakespeare wrote Merchant Of Venice there were no Jews in England – they didn’t return to England until Cromwell’s time), you tend to keep your assets concentrated. Jewels are easy to carry, easy to hide, and have a large value/size ratio.
Ronnie, Horner, et al
Actually, the strictly observant Muslim also hold the usury stricture against changing interest and also have bizarre lending institutions to deal with it. Say what you will, both the Judaic and Muslim adherence to structures against usury looks pretty impressive when compared to credit card interest rape.
Must say this has been a remarkably sane, thoughtful and informative discussion. Usually the very allusion to the subject calls out an instantaneous firestorm. This was not. Kudos to the TTAC readers (and commentors),
Flashpoint :
April 27th, 2009 at 6:42 am
I love how people are angry at the fact I compared Fox News with Stormfront.
Here’s an idea.
Lets find out who uses Stormfront and who watches Fox News/conservative media and lets cross the name list to find out who’s on both lists
You really are an ignorant troll. Fox News is more pro Israel than any other media outlet America. Most of their Middle East coverage reads like out and out Likudnik propaganda.
Fox is the LAST thing a Neo Nazi would believe in. Look at their commentators – Kristol, Krauthammer, Kondracke. Fox has a strong Jewish/NeoCon bent.
The Conservative = Nazi meme is just TIRED.
It’s not the Jews. It’s the Templars!
Likudnik propaganda
I think that’s another word that can be retired, Likudnik. Likud is a center right political party and not at all extreme by Israeli standards. Most of the people who whine about “Likudniks” in the US conservative movement don’t have a clue about Israeli politics.
Of course when CNN describes the Israeli Labor party (an official member of the Socialist Internationale) as “moderate” instead of left wing, I guess they have to make anyone to the right of Shimon Peres or David Ben Gurion into a raving right winger.