At the New York Auto Show, Susan Docherty, GM’s North America vice president for Buick-Pontiac-GMC, attempted to defend GM’s portfolio (she should have a word with Sisyphus on that task). The Detroit Free Press reports that Docherty put GM’s brand strategy (or lack thereof) into perspective during the intro for the hideous GMC Terrain (which, absent bankruptcy, would bring GM’s five-passenger SUV total to . . . in all this excitement, I’ve kinda lost track). She said Chevy and Cadillac are global brands; and there are US buyers who want something in between mass market and high end. “There are customers out there who are not interested in a volume brand but also don’t want to pay for a luxury product,” she said. Yes way. “In its marketing-speak, the Equinox ‘blends function and style into a very sporty, yet upscale compact crossover,’ while the Terrain is ‘an appealing choice for existing traditional SUV customers.'” Both of them?
What century did this broad wake up in today?
Is there a Paxil or Zoloft booth at the NY Auto Show? Free samples, anyone?
“There are customers out there who are not interested in a volume brand but also don’t want to pay for a luxury product,”
doesn’t this describe Subaru-ites? lol.
as TTAC keeps saying and to which no one at GM listens……badge engineering is pointless if you’re cannibalizing your own sales.
Let me guess: when gas hits $4/gallon again this summer, GM in whatever form it exists then will cry “no one could have predicted that demand for SUVs would fall when gas prices rise!”
I’ve always maintained that GM needed to get back to two versions of many vehicles – the standard – and the deluxe. I won’t get into what “brands” they should be but there should be just two of them. And the options should be limited to keep the two versions distinguishable from each other and to keep build costs down.
I have seen the pictures of the interior of the Terrain. It seems overwrought. I don’t like silver painted (cheap?) plastic around the instruments – it glares in my eyes – isn’t clear vision of the instruments the idea? And one of the dinosaur car mags said it well: How much extra does good quality plastic cost? $50? Fine, charge me for it and deliver.
She said Chevy and Cadillac are global brands
This remark struck me as delusional… in exactly what other countries is Cadillac a good seller?
Their European importer just went bankrupt, for example.
Anybody know what she’s raving about, or is this just one of the side-effects of the Kool-aid?
EDIT: In 2004 Caddy was selling 5K units per year outside the U.S. and hoping for 20K units by 2010, with European sales to comprise 10K of that 20. Well, we know THAT didn’t happen.
So – Do 7-8 K sales per year make “an international brand”?????
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f15/gm-s-cadillac-aims-grow-international-sales-4130/
”There are customers out there who are not interested in a volume brand but also don’t want to pay for a luxury product”
And these customers buy used luxury marques. There is no “near-luxury” segment anymore.
Let’s see – name the vehicles to keep the celestial timeline going – Equinox, Solstice…
This one should be called “The Nadir”.
How can people at GM still be so out of touch with the reality of the world? GM stands zero chance of ever being successful so long as these marketing droids are calling the shots.
Cadillac and Chevy should be the only two badges GM cars wear. Drop the dumbass “GM” logos on the cars too. Kill Pontiac, GMC, Buick, and Saturn. Then focus on making good cars and trucks for Cadillac and Chevy. It really is that simple.
MrDot : And these customers buy used luxury marques. There is no “near-luxury” segment anymore.
And the demise of these near luxury cars/CUVs can’t come soon enough.
This is just stupid and unnecessary. I can’t think of anything else to say. GM’s poor management and absolute lack of direction has just worn me down.
marman: Cadillac and Chevy should be the only two badges GM cars wear…It really is that simple.
Agreed. Sure, GMC and Buick might be profitable now (or were before the economy tanked) but for how much longer? Buick has been losing sales for years in the US and is now in the middle of new product launches. Which means the fully amortized G-body and W-body profit fiesta is exiting stage left. The truck-as-grocery-getter and the SUV bonanza are also dead. So GMC will continue to shrink as well. A better long-term strategy is to sell Buick to SAIC, let them decide what they want to do with it in the US and then reorganize the medium truck business that GM is trying to sell as GMC only. Ditch the Pontiac performance fantasy and you’re left with Chevy and the US deluxe brand Cadillac.
It’s so bad the “True Believers” don’t even try to defend this stuff anymore.
Well, outside of the Fastlane hive.
“Nadir”-I like that. ;^D
Bunter
Lokki:
So – Do 7-8 K sales per year make “an international brand”?????
Well, strictly speaking, an “international” brand would be one that’s sold in more than one country, regardless of the volume sold. That would make every car brand in the US an “international” brand as they’re also sold in Canada and Mexico.
But she uses the term “global.” She’s probably using that term instead of “international” because the marketing dept demands it. If Cadillac and Chevy are their “global” brands I wonder how she categorizes Buick, which is GM’s biggest selling brand in China.
”There are customers out there who are not interested in a volume brand but also don’t want to pay for a luxury product.” She admits that Buick, Pontiac and GMC are now just niche brands in the U.S. Doesn’t bode well for the future of either brand, does it?
If Cadillac is an “international brand” with as few sales outside the US as it has, then Lincoln and Mercury must quality also. Check Ford’s international sites to see the dozens of countries Lincoln and Mercury are sold in. Everything you see in a US showroom at Ford Lincoln and Mercury can be found in many, many showrooms worldwide. can Chevy or Caddy say the same? (I don’t know, I haven’t looked)
Ok, I checked. Other than the HHR in Europe and a couple outdated Blazers in South America, Chevy’s international lineup is almost exclusively GM-DAT with an odd Chevy Lumina (G8) thrown in.
It must work for them.
The 4 Lambdas together are the best selling large CUVs by far. They wouldn’t sell that many if it were just the Traverse.
Plus these 4 cars look so different that they can hardly be considered rebadges.
What are the 4 brands anyway Chevy,Cadillac, Buick, GMC?
My idea (and others) now; Saturn gets sold to Mitsubishi. Saturn gets cars to sell, Mitsubishi gets decent dealers.
@ shaker
Another vote for you. ‘Nadir’! Brilliant.
Things are not looking good for Martha Stewart.
Susan Docherty, who writes this doublespeak for you?
Then again, you are a transplant form the Left Coast.
Statements like this make you look far less knowlegeable than Lynn Meyers; another one of the “whiz kids” who could do nothing to re-org or redefine Pontiac (or GMC or Buick).
Hmmm
Alright.. let me get this straight…
GM produces and then CANNS the T/B and all of its copies.. (including the XUV AND EXT that 7 pass abomination..)
GM produces the Equinox / Torrent as well as the VUE for Saturn / Opel.
Equinox is moving onto the larger frame, with Torrent dying an dbeing replaced in the same banner by this POS.
Vue is still around, but now on the same frame as the Opel Antara shared with the Caddy copy and the Saab copy.
SO..
They have the Burban and ITS COPIES..
The Tahoe and ITS copies..
But thats not enough.. and the LAMBDA LAMBDA LAMBDAS come in.. 4 in total (one for BUICK, CHEVY, SATURN and GMC)
Now..
Where does this.. POS fit in, in size against the new Traverse copy from Chevy? This is larger than the TB and a skoash (yes I said SKOASH) smaller than the TAHOE / Burban.
SO..
Whats the point of this..
And I thought we / THEY were CONDENSING vehicles, frames and sizes.
Best part..
They still dont have a hatch.
They still dont have a vehicle in sedan form with a hatch and SMALLER THAN THE TB COPY FOR GMC.
So.. why is this needed again?
And isnt this the same situation they were in when they debuted the T/B and soon all of its copies?
Isn’t Buick more “international” than Chevy and Caddy? Just look at how many were sold in China.
If someone cannot afford a Cadillac and still wants to have better than Chevy, that person is likely to buy a Honda.
I don’t get it…badge engineering at its best.
They’re doing the same to the Equinox what they did to the Acadia.
The Saturn Relay was not needed…..neither was the Traverse to some extent. Is GM still trying to work the next Escalade on to a stretched Lambda platform?
Before you know it, Buick will have their own TerrequinoRX.
For all those who are criticizing the language of the introduction of the “terrain”: how do you think that person got to be a VP?
It’s exactly the kind of attitude and language that works in bureaucratic institutions led by MBAs (and I’m an MBA…)
“(which, absent bankruptcy, would bring GM’s five-passenger SUV total to. . . in all this excitement, I’ve kinda lost track)”
Very true words. They all look the same to me, too. I don’t know how a buyer/seller can make any differentiation between them.
Their obsession with badge engineering just dilutes their offering via product cannibalization.
There are customers out there who are not interested in a volume brand but also don’t want to pay for a luxury product
Yep, there are. And they buy Subarus, Volkswagens and Mazdas. There were two GM brands that these erstwhile buyers might have considered: Saab and Saturn.
Perhaps you see the problem here?
Accords- How did the Terrain/Equinox become larger than the TB? looks like it’s the same dimensions outside with probably more room inside due to better packaging. It’s smaller than the Pilot and about the same size as the Santa Fe
The Tahoe and Suburban are different markets.
If these were Hondas would they still be POSs?
The Saturn VUE will become the Buick model when Saturn disappears.
Chevy has a “hatch”, 2 in fact, Aveo and HHR
This doesn’t surprise me. When the first bailout was being proposed, Ron Middlefinger was on Today discussing the bailout. When asked about GM’s overlapping brands, with Buick and Cadillac given as examples, Middlefinger pointed out that while Cadillacs are sharp and edgy, Buicks are smooth and organic, as well as giving off little technicalities. That can be used to sum up GM’s branding problem, they give the brands the excuse to live by the little technialities that differentiate them from each other. Stuff that the average Joe six-pack won’t notice or give a shit about.
They just don’t get it.
What maybe gets me about this whole thing the most is the “appeal to the traditional SUV buyer”. I would consider myself that “traditional buyer”, being that I bought my truck because it’s a body on frame truck with decent towing capacity and RWD. The crossovers that are so popular with automakers these days do not appeal to me. If I wanted a car, I’d buy a car. Crossovers are just tall wagons to me, and being that they don’t offer much benefit over a wagon, why bother? Once they kill the GMT360s, all GM will have left for anyone wanting a true, truck based SUV is the gutless lame duck H3, or the massive overkill Tahoe.
This attitude just says to me that GM’s problem of not knowing what their customers want still exists and is highly evident, and I’m starting to wonder if they’re ever going to get it. They’re getting bailout bucks to survive, and when the smoke clears, are they going to be any better off? People are already turning their backs to GM for taking billions of dollars out of the pockets of taxpayers, how do they think they’re going to win those people over by just offering the products they want you to buy?
I’ve been trying to see the good in GM for a while, and products like the Malibu, the CTS, and the G8 make me think maybe they’re moving in the right direction. Then they go and show some piece of shit like this GMC Terrain, and I realize that they’re really just operating as they have for 30 years. Spreading platforms as thinly as possible and offering a version through every dealer channel is not going to get them back to profitability. President Obama had RiR fired, maybe he can get Buick, Pontiac, and GMC fired too.
Word-weaseling and vice Presidencies – yeah.
Back during the last recession our company had to lay some people off…. We used the phrase “down-sizing”.
One guy at thedecision meeting with me said that down-sizing made the company sound mean… we should say “right-sizing. So we “right-sized” 100 managers. It made all those employees feel much better, I’m sure. !#$@%~!@%
I was offended; he was promoted.
I hate to ‘pile on’…but I will. GM needs another SUV, CUV what the ***k in its line up like I need to gain 20 pounds. ANY effort devoted to this should have been spent on a car…any car. This will bring the total number to close to twenty. TWENTY. How many freakin’ niches are there in the SUV/CUV segment? Unbelievable.
(In Canada it’s worse still, because in addition to the SUV/CUVs they still sell the Uplander and the Montana).
Just to make things more confusing, in the Middle East there’s a GMC Terrain that’s a badge engineered Saturn Vue.
What she fails to grasp is that “existing traditional SUV customers” aren’t shopping for a unibody 4-cylinder cute ute with an Ugly Jeep image complex.
But, in the GM “bubble” you can make believe whatever market segment you want.
@ jgh: Exactly, how well are the Compass and Patriot doing these days? More GM not bothering to find out what people want to buy, just throwing some poorly executed “me too” product on dealer lots and losing billions in the process.
davey49 “My idea (and others) now; Saturn gets sold to Mitsubishi. Saturn gets cars to sell, Mitsubishi gets decent dealers”. That’s one of the best ideas I have heard on this site in a long time. To me if just sharing a platform and engine is badge engineering and we aren’t looking at how the car drives and looks and also dealer service and quality of craftsmanship then everyone from Acura down is guilty of this.
Runfromcheney:
they give the brands the excuse to live by the little technialities that differentiate them from each other. Stuff that the average Joe six-pack won’t notice or give a shit about.
Have you noticed that the current generation of Chevy and GMC pickups have different hoods, front fenders, and outer rear box sides (or fenders, if you prefer). And neither set of hoods or front fenders is on the Suburban/Yukon XL. I have not seen enough current generation Suburban and Yukon XL to tell if at least they are sharing sheetmetal. I’ll wager that not 1 in 100 have noticed it. What benefit can GM possibly get from this expenditure?
Chevy and Cadillac are global brands? Neither is on offer in my country.
Ok, let me see if I’ve got this right. If Honda or Toyota build a car then use that same platform with different sheet metal and different interior and call it an Acura or Lexus that is platform sharing which is ok. But if GM builds an Equinox and then use the same platform with different sheet metal and different interior that is badge engineering which is bad.
Welcome to TTAC, Mark.
I hate to bust ya bubble MARK45, but Toyota has committed ENOUGH SINS on the CAMRY frame that its starting to make me sick.
Ya got the
CAMRY
Sienna
ES
RX
Avalon
Highlander
VENZA
And with each and every vehicle.. the bloat gets worse.. and the design and appeal for it, and the company.. GOES INTO THE SHITTER.
As for as Honda goes..
I love the company for its views and how it HAS handled the suppliers.. (not as of late).
But to put the majority of what they produce.. down to 2-3 frames.. is pretty balsy, like Toyota.
However..
Their latest WTFs
MDX
RDX
Pliot redo
TL sharing same motor with bloated TSX
and now the ZDX (who’s purpose is only to steal share from BMW’s X6…)
I fault Honda for having no taste or design in their vehicles. Platform sharing.. for THEM BOTH is completely buried. They make designing a dozen cars on one frame.. AN ART FORM.
But as I have stated before..
To have a TB canned (and all of its copies), the Equinox spawned into the Torrent (they literally removed the front clip.. and went on with the rebadge.. is pathetic.)
Look at the Opel Antara.. and TELL ME IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE THE VUE.
And that same design.. is going to SAAB and to Caddy. SO in otherwords..
They can one design, and replace it with something equally as pathetic.
This POS.. does what for the company?
What does this do that the Lambdas havent?
What does this do that the current gen Equinox doesnt?
What does this do that the TB doesnt.. (besides still be produced / or go into production)
WHat does this do.. that the Burban )and its copies dont)
What does this do.. that the Tahoe (AND ITS COPIES dont?)
GMs bigggest fault and most visible archilles heel…
They dont keeo vehicles past a generation..
AND THEY ARENT CONSISTANT!
Their biggest competition isnt just THE COMPETITION.. but its their own brands.. INSIDE OF GM, and inside of each “BRAND” itself.
Worst part…
After all of this SUV/ CUV musical chairs..
They wont have a compact vehicle the size of the current Equinox in Chevy dealers.
And they wont have a 3box hatch… in dealerships.
And dont give me the excuse of the HHR / Aveo.
HHR is a lame duck.. that I wouldnt be buried in.
And Aveo is as KOREAN / Chinese as the food I just PASSED.
Best / Worst part..
No other company besides Chevy has a entry compact / hatch.. in the market, besides the Opel Astra. And that isnt exactly burning up the sales.
This is just another.. nail in the head.
Accords : I hate to bust ya bubble MARK45, but Toyota has committed ENOUGH SINS on the CAMRY frame that its starting to make me sick.
I think you misunderstood, I meant that as sarcasm.
What does this do that the Lambdas havent?
It is a smaller vehicle gets 30mpg hwy.
What does this do that the current gen Equinox doesnt?
It looks different. Not everyone has the same taste when it comes to how a vehicle looks. In my opinion Nissan has the worst looking vehicles, but others do not seem to think the same way because they are buying them.
WHat does this do.. that the Burban )and its copies dont)
What does this do.. that the Tahoe (AND ITS COPIES dont?)
The Terrain does not in any way compete against them.
Why do mfg’s use platform sharing? It makes economical sense. I admit GM has done their share of badge engineering, and I think they have heard the complaints and are trying to do something about it. By using all new sheet metal they are making it more of a different vehicle which I consider platform sharing. All I here is what their doing wrong, what about what they are doing right. I don’t see Honda or Toyota with direct injection engines in their vehicles. The Cobalt beats Civic and Corolla in hwy mileage. The Malibu beats Camry and Accord in hwy mileage. The new Equinox beats Rav4 and CRV in hwy mileage.
Bob Lutz could have said the same in six words instead of her twenty-three, and it would have been easier to quote, though just as easy to mock.
–chuck
This got me wondering just who Susan is. I found this peppy interview from 2007:
http://askpatty.typepad.com/ask_patty_/2007/08/getting-to-know.html
“Susan has spent more than 22 years with General Motors, and currently leads the sales, service, marketing, and distribution efforts for 16 Western states, including Hawaii and Alaska.”
Great, she presided over GM’s decline in the US’ largest automotive market, California.
“Among her proudest achievements was launching the Saturn brand in Canada in 1991, where (because of the country’s French/English bilingual polarity), they had to create a whole new way to explain that ‘different’ really did mean ‘better.’ “ Wow, stunning, she had a hand in brand proliferating Saturn into Canada, a market 1/10th the size of the US which certainly didn’t need yet another GM brand.
“She also used that understanding in her four-year tenure as Director of Marketing for Chevrolet and Cadillac in Europe. There, she led a turnaround campaign for both Cadillac and Chevrolet, and also implemented brand management programs across Europe. “One of the things we had to do to make Chevrolet and Cadillac more relevant in Europe was to go back to the history of who this person ‘Cadillac’ was, and who this person ‘Chevrolet’ was, because both of those individuals were Europeans who came to America. The moment the European consumer began to understand that those two brands had owners who had heritage that was European-based, it began to click.”” Pow, right in the middle of the stupid move of trying to take Chevy and Cadillac into Europe!
“In 2004, Susan was appointed the General Manager of Hummer, where she was responsible for marketing, sales, distribution, dealer development, and management of the Hummer brand worldwide.” Gadzooks, in the middle of the Hummer fiasco as well!
This looks like the resume of the classically dysfunctional GM executive, doing all the wrong things; then getting moved along to the next pet project.
…Cadillac are global brands…
Really? All the years in lived in Australia I never saw any Caddies. Saw a lot of BMW’s, Japanese, and Korean cars. I didn’t see any Chevys either, unless you consider Holden to be the Aussie Chevy (I don’t).
Oh lookie its got a big, shiny, vulgar grill. GM designers know what they’re doing – even from a long way off people can tell at a glance this thing is “All American”.
Susan Docherty, GM’s North America vice president for Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Isn’t that like being the second-in-command of the Titanic?
Mark45:
I admit GM has done their share of badge engineering, and I think they have heard the complaints and are trying to do something about it. By using all new sheet metal they are making it more of a different vehicle which I consider platform sharing. All I here is what their doing wrong, what about what they are doing right. I don’t see Honda or Toyota with direct injection engines in their vehicles. The Cobalt beats Civic and Corolla in hwy mileage. The Malibu beats Camry and Accord in hwy mileage. The new Equinox beats Rav4 and CRV in hwy mileage.
Regarding the above statement, I think AKM has the most effective rebuttal:
AKM :
It’s exactly the kind of attitude and language that works in bureaucratic institutions led by MBAs (and I’m an MBA…)
“Oh lookie its got a big, shiny, vulgar grill. GM designers know what they’re doing – even from a long way off people can tell at a glance this thing is “All American”.”
What else is new? Right after WWII some people were referring to the toothy Cadillac and Chrysler grilles as “dollar grins.”
MARK45:
As you may have guessed..
The current introduction of direct-injected vehicles into the motor lineup at GM.. doesnt tell me they are the forefront of anything.
It only says… after 25-or-so years of building gutless motors being stuck in vehicles not worth a shit after 5yrs… maybe better fuel economy might improve sales..
But I hate to tell ya.. no matter how much makeup ya stick on a pig..
Its still a pig.
Now with that said..
The Tahoe / Yukon / Escalade has plenty of compeition against the Lambdas and the coming Equinox-come-Terrain.
The same buyer.. could choose either one.
Like going to Mcds and getting LARGE, KING size or DOUBLE ROLLS.
Each could seat 5, and if optioned of added on to as the TB was.. could have an ext version…
SO.. they are in direct competition.
Accords :
The current introduction of direct-injected vehicles into the motor lineup at GM.. doesnt tell me they are the forefront of anything.
Everybody has put GM down because they are still using pushrod engines saying they need to use more advanced technology, even though they have great torque and get good mileage. Now GM uses more advanced technology than Honda and Toyota and they say ho-hum.
Now with that said..
The Tahoe / Yukon / Escalade has plenty of compeition against the Lambdas and the coming Equinox-come-Terrain.
The same buyer.. could choose either one.
Like going to Mcds and getting LARGE, KING size or DOUBLE ROLLS.
Each could seat 5, and if optioned of added on to as the TB was.. could have an ext version…
SO.. they are in direct competition.
Using that logic the Toyota Yaris is in direct competition with the Venza, they both are hatchbacks that can seat 5. The buyer could choose either one.