dperaza writes:
I need your opinion and that of the B&B. I need to change my current vehicle (1997 Honda Civic 2dr) for a car with room for 2 car seats because starting in August I will be taking the twins to daycare in the mornings before heading to work. We have a minivan as the “main vehicle” for long trips, going out with family, grocery shopping, etc. So I do not need or want another minivan nor an SUV. Taking into consideration all variables (price, fuel efficiency, resale value, reliability, maintenance, safety and performance) a 2009 Civic Si Sedan seems like a good all around car for what I need but somehow I keep thinking it comes up short in the performance dept. Second choice is the Mazdaspeed 3 but I am afraid of its long term reliability, resale value, integrity and maintenance costs. Third choice is the 2009 WRX but they seem to be having problems with rod bearings and quality seems down.
What other cars around this price would you consider that can offer similar attributes to these three? What about pricier cars, around $28K?
Sajeev answers:
Looks like you are in for several fun filled weekends of test driving! I agree that the Civic Si leaves much to be desired now that everyone else re-ignited their love for low-end torque via forced induction. Hence the Speed3 and WRX are the hot tickets for cheap performance. My offerings include the lesser-known Chevy Cobalt SS sedan and Dodge Caliber SRT-4. The performance is there and they’ll be a great deal post CH11. Then again, either car’s nasty interior fits the bill if you need corrective lenses to legally drive . . . and you choose not to.
But you mentioned fuel efficiency and a host of financially motivated variables. Which gives me pause. Because all the cars mentioned need premium gas, and none (especially the Subie) are miserly with it. And check the insurance rates before you sign on the dotted line. The total cost of ownership might deem these cars a waste of your money. Maybe I’ll leave it at that . . .
And recommend a Civic EX sedan instead. There are other sedans, but you are considering the Si, so I reckon you do like the basic goodness of the Civic. With the EX, the family gets what it needs with money spared for more important things (like your children’s college fund) and you’ll have enough sport and speed if you go with a stick. From any perspective, this choice is made of “win.”
[Send your car questions to sajeev.mehta@thetruthaboutcars.com]
I have read this article about 3 times and the same question keeps occurring (and, subsquently, reoccurring) to me:
What is the need for a car as big as the Civic?
From what I can see, the main parameter is having enough space for 2 children’s car seats in the back. Well, if there is only one person in the car driving, then I’d recommend a Toyota Yaris.
It’d be spacious enough to hold 2 car seats in the back and the driver, plus someone for the passenger seat, if needs must.
Because it’s a small car, as a runaround, it’ll be extremely fuel efficient.
I can’t speak for the US version, but the Euro-version of the Yaris has an NCAP 5 star rating. In other words, it’s a very safe car.
The parts and maintainence will be very cheap.
As for reliablity, well, firstly, it’s a Toyota, so no worries there and, secondly, the US version of the Yaris is built in Japan, whereas the Euro-version is built in France.
Resale value should be pretty good, too.
You might even want to have a look at the Honda Jazz, too.
But as “KingHeathen” might say “don’t take my word for it, think for yourself”. :O)
When deciding what vehicle to put my children in, I consider small to be a disadvantage.
Save the cash, let the other partner (p.c. enough?) drive the Civic, and take the kids in the minivan.
I (personally) wouldn’t put my kids in anything smaller than the average size (ie. mid-size) car.
Of course the writer didn’t identify a location, so a Civic MAY BE an average size, where he/she lives.
I’m going to take some risk here, but I think some of these posters have never put a child in a car seat, let alone two, every morning. My guess is you will be driving the Minivan soon. So I don’t know the situation but guessing the other half is driving the other car. Then get what a good second small car would be regardless, and drive the van.
Been there, done that.
2008 Cadillac CTS
I’d say go for a used MINI S. It will hold your kids and stuff when you aren’t driving them and can be sold for near what you bought it for when you need a larger vehicle. And you can savor at least a few more years of fun driving before you have to buy another minivan.
@KatiePuckrik: From what I can see, the main parameter is having enough space for 2 children’s car seats in the back. Well, if there is only one person in the car driving, then I’d recommend a Toyota Yaris.
If the child seats are forward-facing, sure. If either/both are rear-facing, you’re hosed with anything small.
@Juniper: I’m going to take some risk here, but I think some of these posters have never put a child in a car seat, let alone two, every morning. My guess is you will be driving the Minivan soon. So I don’t know the situation but guessing the other half is driving the other car. Then get what a good second small car would be regardless, and drive the van.
Preach it, bro.
For the sake of your spine and your sanity, at least get something with big doors and a high hip point. It doesn’t have to be a van or crossover, and it could be reasonably amusing. Consider the Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, Mazda 5 or Honda Element SC. All are reasonably amusing.
Car seats are HUGE. My neighbor’s baby Acura 4-door can accomdate two car seats in the back, and the two pint-sized passengers. There’s barely room for a diaper bag, and it’s kind of a pain.
My suggestion is that after you get all hot-and-bothered from your web searches, go look at the cars you like and take your car seats with you. Install ’em, and try putting one of your kids in there.
Now imagine doing that 500 times per year.
Now the next question …. Does your wife LOVE, and I mean truly deeply love her minivan? And I’m talking LOVE like GM loves Bailout Bucks. If so, fine. But if not, check her purse and see which car salesmen she’s been visiting. Look in the places where you used to hide all your lad mags before the kids showed up, and I’ll bet there’s a bunch of car brochures there …. and they’re not for you, either, big guy.
Good luck. Report back with your findings.
P.S. I got through this stage in life by driving cars that were not particularly exciting. There are more options now. You might want to just stay put with what you have, and parlay the money into a project you enjoy, with two or four wheels. That’s what I did, and everybody was happy.
How tall is the poster?
Are the kids’ seats front or rear-facing at this point? I think you can make them front-facing at 1 year and 20 lbs., but double check with your pediatrician.
I’m 6 feet tall, and with a rear facing seat behind me, I have to sacrifice leg room even in my 04 Outback, and with front facing, I have to deal with the occasional toddler kick in the (seat) back.
The previous generation WRX/Impreza was undriveable with a rear facing seat behind me, don’t know about the current one.
If the twins are still little, I’d just drive the minivan until you can flop the seats around and have a lot more possibilities for your car.
OK, have to go play “jump cars” with two year old, good luck!
It sounds like you want something small but big enough, and frugal, but fast/fun. Maybe, along the same vein as the WRX, a Mitsubishi Ralliart Sportback?
I agree with most of the posters above, except the first one, no to the Yaris, it’s got many shortages when it comes to carrying two kids. i’ve done so in a honda fit, and it was a very tight fit. not to mention safety concerns are always omnipresent.
however sticking to the Van and letting the other half take the Honda is the most practical and sensible thing to do without increasing the budget. now when the Cash for clunkers program gears up… then you can consider trading your car for something nicer… if it has to be American(ized), a ford Focus could do (with the biggest engine available), if import is not an issue i would go for a Mazda 3, or a 6, but truly a kids mobile would either be a van/CUV, or hatchback.
you got the Volvo V50 T5 that should be some fun,but then you’ll have to damn residuals….
It’s imperative that you test drive with the car seats you intend to use installed and the kids’ legs sticking out of them. This goes double if any of the adults are tall enough to slide the seat way back or set the rake very reclined.
A neighbor bought a Volvo S60 before realizing that regular car seats don’t fit properly (it’s also a car with a deceptively small back seat area). They had to buy Volvo’s car seats ($$) just for that car. I imagine many other cars that size are less car-seat-friendly than they look.
Get a car with 4 doors. We have a MINI Cooper S; believe me, you will destroy your back getting kids in and out of car seats back there.
We have three rear-facing car seats among all of those who pick up my child. The cars they are in are:
2005 Scion xB
2003 Accord
2009 CRV
The best one for the car seat, and the most fun to drive is by far the 05 xB. I love that zippy car. Too bad that my wife hates the Accord, and I get stuck driving it most days.
I agree with the posters here who recommend some thing larger and taller. I did the kid thing in a Golf, you need to be a contortionist. Getting the seats in is bad enough, then u need to place squealing squirming children in them, geeze.
As much as I love small cars, I would get a bigger one, like a smallish suv (sorry), just cause the seats are more upright and they are higher. Like a VW Tiguan or something like that. Maybe even bigger.
I tend to agree mostly with Ronman. On the days you need to take the kids, swap cars. That way you can leave the carseats in place, and you can buy any car you want for the other one.
VW GLi-two children fit in the back nicely (2 car seats in mine), great mileage,VERY fun to drive, the reliability of my ’06 has been stellar (80K miles with no issues)
My kids are 8 and 9, and they seem to do quite well in the back of my Rabbit. For many small American cars the back seat seems to be an afterthought in the design, and designers assumed (rightly) that it would hardly ever be used. In the Rabbit however, the back seat is actually meant to be used. Also, it has just the perfect angle for car seat. So.. get a GTI!
You know, keeping with the frugal Civic tradition, you could buy an ’01-04 Civic sedan. It will be a generation newer than yours, and is cheap to buy. It’s bigger than the 97 Civic also, and it’s a reliable ride that’s stil fun to drive.
If you must have new, I think that the Civic Si is a great ride. The car is relatively simple and will last you a decade without any issues. You can’t say the same for the turbo cars on the list.
I also like the Mini, which you can get into at Civic Si prices.
To add to the GLI and Gabbit/Rolf suggestion… If you want economy and decent performance, look into a Jetta TDI. They start below 28000 nicely equipped. No one is sure about the long term reliability of the new 2.0 litre TDI, but it should be large enough for your kids and economical too. Especially when fuel prices shoot back up.
Gently used Mazda 6 or Ford Fusion. If you are lucky you can get a 5 speed, and if you are REALLY lucky you might be able to find a 6 with a V6 + stick.
Trust me, you do NOT want a car as small as a Civic or Mazda 3 with TWO car seats in it. Especially after a year when they move to the gargantuan “convertible” seats. Those things are huge and take up more space than my Pathfinder can barely accommodate. You need at least a mid size car and even then that is a tight squeeze.
The convertible car seats take up so much space that with two, you will have to scoot your front seats up more than comfortable (unless you and your wife are of petite stature) and even then they are still a tough fit. Also, make sure the cars you look at have the LATCH systems (much easier to use than seat belt anchoring) for your own sanity. You will also need the bigger front seat room of a mid size (did I recommend full size yet) for diaper changing since you won’t have any room in the back seats to do the deed.
If you can’t or won’t drive the minivan, please heed this advice!
I regularly take two kids from daycare in the front facing child seats in Pontiac Vibe. I’m 6’3″, so my seat is pushed all the way back.
Parents usually send kids to daycare at 3mo. At 12mo. you can put them in a front-facing seat. At the most, you need a temporary solution for 9 months. On the other hand, if you need an excuse to dump an unloved Civic…
Friends I have that use to have two Civics, when they had two kids they each upgraded to Accords for as they said the CIvics were just two small for two car seats. They were much happier afterwards.
And secondly IMHO, say no to daycare. Save the children!
Focus !
We have this exact situation, and we love our 2001 Focus ZTS. 5 speed with the twink motor, the kids call it “The Zippy Car”. The seat bottom folds forwards so you can vacuum out the 5 pounds of cracker crumbs and the trunk holds soccer balls and collapsible chairs. Great car for small kids.
The Windstar’s a dog, but that’s another story.
If you’re not rolling in dough, I’d try to keep it cheaper – especially with the two kids.
As others have mentioned:
Civic EX / Si, GTI, jetta tdi, etc…
It looks like you keep cars a while given your Civic is 12yrs old. Remember your kids wont stay in those huge car seats forever. They will move on to boosters etc in a few years which are much smaller.
I would suggest you drive the van if possible depending on your commute length (mpg concerns?). Most vans have good safety ratings.
Otherwise you would probably be happy with a new 4 door Civic.
Dang, yo, I’m going to second Sajeev’s suggestion of the Cobalt SS. That thing is a total Q-ship and it’s got all kinds of stank. Every review I’ve read has declared it a fantastic machine an almost all regards except for design/interior niceness. If you got twin kids, they’re gonna barf & sneeze & spill stuff all over the interior of your car, so there’s no real reason to get anything too fancy. Also, the Cobalt has solid fuel economy for it’s remarkable performance – 22/30 if I remember right.
Cobalt wins on bang-for-buck; it’s a better proposition in many ways than even the vaunted MS3. I’m a big fat Subaru fanboy, so the 09 WRX would be my 2nd suggestion (especially if you live where the snow falls). They mostly fixed the issues with the ’08. But yeah, all your suggestions drink premium gas, which isn’t great when you’re talking value. What a great segment to be shopping in, though!
Otherwise, if you really want to save money and have fun, a manual tranny Mazda 3 (not Mazdaspeed) or, as kericf suggested a manual tranny Mazda 6.
At the end of the day, I would suggest driving all your options (don’t forget the Cobalt SS!) and maybe bring a carseat or two along to the dealership to get an idea of how well they load in and fit in the cars.
My Dad’s 3 series fits my girls’ Britax car seats better than my ’07 Forester does. Rear leg room is the key statistic you want to look for. If your kids’ seats are forward facing, you’ll get more leeway when it comes space.
I’d also recommend looking up the rear side impact ratings on http://www.iihs.org. This was a determining factor for my purchase.
Have fun shopping!
I drive a Ford Fusion because that is the smallest car I could find that fit 3 car seats. As it is, I am seriously considering saying to-hell-with-mileage-and-fun and upgrading to a bigger car or SUV because even the Fusion is annoyingly small when packed with kids and their stuff.
Also, kids don’t care if you have a cool, fast car. They just want to be comfortable, have a good view outside, and take along their friends and toys. So minivans rule.
When toting kids regularly I’d put reliability, safety and ability to drive in any kind of weather safely. Therefore, I’d opt for a Civic sedan as it has enough room for two child seats has high safety ratings for a compact car (the Civic was the first sub compact ever to get 5 stars crash safety across the board back in 2001), is very reliable and with FWD and all season tires standard it can handle most weather without having to swap over to snow tires.
When my family goes on longer vacations where we drive to the destination we rent a minivan or SUV instead of owning one outright (why should a seldom need for size dictate you buy something bigger than you need 98% of the time). It is a compromise but when gas climbs back up you’ll be thankful you do not have it as your main transportation for single occupants (such a waste of gas seeing Escalades being driven by one person).
You should consider a lightly used Ford Fusion with a 5-speed. Cheap, reliable, spacious, fun to drive and it runs on regular gas.
I’d agree with kencf about the LATCH system it makes life so much easier. It takes moments to clip in. if the car doesn’t have the LATCH then get the ratchet under the name of mighty-tite.
Pontiac G8 (GT preferably)
I’d check out a Mazda6. For 28K you can get the grand touring S version. It’s spacious, nice interior, big trunk for the stroller/diaper bag and decent driving. Believe me, you’ll appreciate the space as the kiddies get older and start kicking the seat in front.
Get the Civic Si. Under-rated horsepower, fun to drive, limited-slip diff. Cheap to insure, solid build quality inside and out, roomy, excellent safety ratings. Inexpensive (available from anywhere right at $20k) and will hold it’s value better than most other things.
The ’09 WRX is solid and will hold it’s value well, and is a close second… but the interior is meh and it may be more difficult to get a good price, and insurance will wack you. Main advantage is AWD and an available hatchback.
Ooh yeah, HEATHROI’s on to something with the G8. You should be able to get a newer one for around $28k if I had to guess. That’s a good sized car with great performance and style. IMO, overpowered RWD isn’t much fun in the snow, but the other 95% of the time it’ll put a smile on your face.
Also, you’ve listed a number of compacts as options – what are your thoughts on the Fit? It’s super-versatile, should accomodate car seats well (though I don’t know if they have LATCH hookups) and should provide big fun for small $.
Are the kids’ seats front or rear-facing at this point? I think you can make them front-facing at 1 year and 20 lbs., but double check with your pediatrician.
The criteria for front-facing is:
One year old
Twenty pounds
Walking steadily
The problem is neck strength and stability, or the lack thereof, in a small child. Whiplash injuries are much, much harder on them. The rule of thumb is “if your child can be seated rear-facing, keep them that way as long as you possible.
The problem with that is that a rear-facing child seat must be angled in such a way that the child is reasonably reclined (your seat will have hash-marks for this; use a level and have some pool noodles handy to recline it further). That angle will result in the childseat being very close to the front seat’s back. It must not touch, and in fact there should be a good deal of room to allow the seat to travel forward and down in a collision with your child in it. That allows crash forces to be mitigated and saves your child’s neck.
Many people budge the front seats right into the childseat—sometimes to the point where it will have the child positioned upright—and I cannot stress how bad that is for the seat’s safety.
For a small car with a lot of space and versatility, I would go with the Honda Fit. My girlfriend has one and it has plenty of room in the back (granted, we’ve never had car seats in it before). In the summer, she has gotten up to 44MPG with her MT Fit. You can haul a lot of things with the rear seats folded flat, it’s almost like having a two seater SUV.
I drive a Mazda 3 and even without car seats, there is not much room in the back. I really wouldn’t suggest the Mazda 3 for people who take long trips with passengers in the back seats.
I love my Mazda 3 but if I were to get a new vehicle, I would go buy a Honda Fit. I think it beats the Mazda 3 in resale value, MPG, and versatility.
My vote is for the GTI. Much more practical and useful than a Civic sedan, plus your impressionable kids won’t be exposed to that hideous dash…I can’t believe anyone would drive that thing. Especially sad because the exterior is very sharp.
Oh, and don’t be all “ooh that’s not reliable”. C’mon, you sound like you want a fun car. Usually, that comes with a trade off. Plus, we’re not talking about leave-you-stranded with kids kind of stuff here.
To avoid the morning switch, both family cars have two car seats. Totally expensive, but worth saving the insane hassle.
If the seats have to be rear facing, then forget any of the small cars. We had a hell of time getting one of ours rear facing in our Subaru. Even with the passenger seat practically all the way up, the car seat barely fit.
Re: What other cars around this price would you consider that can offer similar attributes to these three? What about pricier cars, around $28K?
’06 – ’07 Audi A6.
No, really. With the 3.2, it’s the same price as a new Civic Si, and with the 4.2 V8 it’ll still be under $28k.
More spacious, more powerful, already depreciated, and with a MUCH nicer interior. Plus, with 2 small kids, it’s one of the safest cars on the road.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-AUDI-A6-4-2-QUATTRO-FACT-W-Y-BLUETOOTH-NAVY-CLEAN_W0QQitemZ160328656363QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item160328656363&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-2|39%3A1|240%3A1308
Not from nothing, but my first consideration is crash results. Although small is certainly more economical and fun to drive, imagine the Suburban following you, driver yaking on the phone, missing the emergency stop up ahead.
Just a thought.
Hello: Thanks Sajeev and everyone who responded. Seems I should have included more information about myself. I live in FL. I am 6’1 tall, my wife will be picking the twins in the afternoons from daycare in the minivan, the twins are in forward facing carseats and I plan to keep this car for as long as I can. Reliability is extremely important for me as I am use to it by now. My ’97 Civic has been absolutely problem free in these 12 years requiring only maintenance and minor repairs.
I have test-drove the Si, the MS3 and the EVO. I liked the feeling of the EVO but I could not stand the interior. The MS3 was super nice but again reliability, depreciation and long term integrity and mainteance have me worried. Next I will be testing the WRX.
I can also vouch for the 2005 Scion xB… I have installed infant seats, convertibles (front and rear facing) and boosters with no issues. It’s also fun to drive and gets 32 MPG with a stick shift. It’s rock solid reliable – I have had no issues and others have had similar experiences (see TrueDelta or CR).
I also recommend another set of car seats (or bases for infant seats) rather than moving the seats around all the time.
Hyundai Sonata I4 with manual transmission.
It has a double wishbone front suspension (like your old Civic, not like the current one which cheaped out with struts).
It’s super safe (it has a 61 on this guys list: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com:8080/2009/04/risk-index-scores-for-2009-vehicles.pdf ).
It has a 2.4 for a bit more power and torque than the Civic 1.8.
It’s priced like a Civic or lower.
The EPA classifies it as a large car; it has a lot of room.
It’s made in the US, so you might qualify for clunker culling with your used Civic.
Having something tall helps, but IMHO isn’t essential, but you do need 4/5 doors, we occasionally used to put our little one in the back of our Cooper S, it was back breaking. Also it was only possible with the convertible seat in the fwd facing position. Rear facing just did not fit, nor did the rear facing infant seat.
By the way, paediatricians recommend that you keep the little ones rear facing for as long as possible (little necks carrying oversized heads don’t do well in an accident if facing forwards).
A number of folks suggested the Mazdaspeed 3, I ditched the Cooper S for one and the child seat fits fine, forward facing, I have not tried it rear facing, it will be tight. Our other vehicle, an 07 Rav4, is even a squeeze if the seat is fitted facing rearwards, requiring the front passenger to give up some legroom. Incidentally, US RAV4s are about 5 inches longer than their Euro counterparts.
28K buys you some options, but do make sure that you test out any prospective choices with your carseats, we did just that when we were shopping for our RAV, even strapping a big teddy bear in as a surrogate baby, you should have seen the looks !
We looked at the CRV, Outlander, RAV4 and Santa Fe. A decent sized sedan (Legacy sized and up) should also work.
I’d agree with kencf about the LATCH system it makes life so much easier. It takes moments to clip in. if the car doesn’t have the LATCH then get the ratchet under the name of mighty-tite.
LATCH only works really well in minivans, where the anchors are well-exposed and the doors big. Otherwise, cinching the seat in tightly is just as much a pain in the ass with LATCH as it is with belts.
That’s another mistake people make: LATCH requires the seat to be very, very tight—much more so than they think. It’s not easy for a lot of people to manage that, and the terrible straps on most seats don’t help
Fit. Really, huge inside.
Man I must be getting old. I remember frequently riding in the “slot” behind the backseat in my grandmother’s ’68 VW bug.
I don’t have any kids… but can’t they crawl in to seats themselves? Why do you have to lift, insert, remove, etc.?
the twins are in forward facing carseats
You should be ok with just about anything, then. Do have them try it out, though, as some kids don’t like the sensation of the seatback in front of them. My three-year-old hates it, and kicks the bejeezus out of the seat if it’s too close.
Get yourself a second pair of carseats. Not only will it spare you the aggravation of installing them, but it’s safer because you’ll get them installed once and properly, rather than getting it wrong in a hurry.
It also gives you a chance to get good child seats. Points to remember:
* LATCH/ISOFIX is usually only good to 40lbs. Check with the manufacturer as to the maximum weight their anchors will support.
* Seats with five-point harnesses are also only good to about the same. Try to keep your kids in five-point seats as long as possible, because it’s easy for a small child to slip under the bottom belt even with a booster.
…I plan to keep this car for as long as I can. Reliability is extremely important for me as I am use to it by now. My ‘97 Civic has been absolutely problem free in these 12 years requiring only maintenance and minor repairs.
You really can’t go wrong with a Civic, but that low roof is a real piss-off, especially when the kids get ornery. Again, look into something with a tall hip point.
If you like Hondas, the Element SC has been shown to out-slalom an Si, has big door openings, the same excellent shifter as the Civic, and is quite reliable. You could also try for the Fit, Mazda5 (handles well, if a bit slow, and those sliding doors are a godsend), or Corolla/Matrix.
I don’t have any kids… but can’t they crawl in to seats themselves? Why do you have to lift, insert, remove, etc.?
Yes, you don’t have kids. :)
I’d say that, oh, about half to two-thirds of the time they’ll crawl into the seats. The other times are memorable for the ways in which they avoid doing so.
My son’s favourite trick is to climb in, then immediate jump out, go to the front seat, lock the doors, and play race-car.
What about a Subaru Legacy GT? That starts at around 28k. Honestly, the Civic’s back seat is a joke- fine for a little kid but when they get older I don’t think it’s worth it. Plus smaller cars aren’t nearly as safe.
By the way, paediatricians recommend that you keep the little ones rear facing for as long as possible (little necks carrying oversized heads don’t do well in an accident if facing forwards).
@allythom: I see that Volvo and Britax-Roemer will have rear-facing car seats available later this year for kids up to age 4, but not in the US.
Rigid LATCH connectors such as those found on the Baby Trend Latch Loc help ensure a better fit, but unfortunately most US car seats don’t offer those.
I really think you should seriously consider the G8 if you want to look at something larger than a compact.
The savings on it couldn’t be better now, and its a damn good car, even in v6 trim. Used deals could be found for sub 20k.
Gently used Accord. Large enough to haul around kids and their crap. Gets decent MPG’s. Rock solid reliability and resale. Not as boring to drive as other mid-sized sedans like the Camry.
2008 G8 GT. Huge back seat, fun to drive, big trunk and the V8 is easier on gas than one might expect due to cylinder deactivation on the highway.
Pick one up used with a few thousand miles on it, and you’re good to go for well under $28k.
Other option is a lightly optioned Honda Accord. Big back seat, good size trunk, better fuel economy and you can get a stick if you want one! You could even buy a new one and still be under the $28k price point.
I’ve got one kid in an infant seat and 1 in a regular car seat. Even with an e39 5 series, it’s still a tight fit.
MAKE SURE YOU BRING THE CAR SEAT WITH YOU AND PUT IT IN THE CARS YOU TEST DRIVE!!
I would highly recommend AGAINST the Cobalt. We had one as a rental and the rear seat room was poor (worse than my GTI) and the truck opening was small making luggage loading very difficult. It was much too small and cramped for a family with 2 children of any age. I’d also recommend against a Legacy as the gas mileage is horrid and the space in the rear seats is only equal to my GTI (plus, they’ve killed the wagon). If you were willing to go w/ a 2005-06 Legacy wagon or Outback wagon, that would be a solid choice for much less than $28k.
My vote, as far as new vehicles, is for a 4cyl, FWD or AWD Toyota Venza. Not quite SUV, amazing middle seat room, wagon cargo area, and gets 28mpg highway (in AWD guise). It certainly won’t be as fun to drive as a Civic, SS, GTI, or MS3, but as a nice, reliable, daily driven mommy(or daddy)-mobile, it is hard to beat.
As way of background I’m 6’4 and have 3 kids. Given your needs/wants and list of cars you have already looked at you should check out the VW GTI 4 door. Very sporty and fun but also practical with pretty good gas mileage. Should be plenty of room for two car seats plus other stuff. Residuals on this car are supposed to be very good. On the other had reliability is an issue. I have one and love it. So far no major issues.
Other options include Subaru Legacy GT or Mazda 6 which are both very sporty and fun to drive. However you could also check out the Mazda CX-7. A high beltline makes it much easier to get the kids in and out of car seats. Traditional sedans can be a back breaker.
If you’re looking for fun and safe, why not a manual Ford Fusion? Based on info from informedforlife.com (which I learned of here), it’s quite safe. From the reviews, the stick is pretty fun and you’ve got three engine choices to balance your power vs mpg needs.
I drive a 2-door GTI and my wife, pregnant with our first child, drives a Mazda3 5-door. I was considering a MS3, but didn’t want us to both have the same car, and it would make 3 Mazda3s on our block.
Both of our cars have been virtually problem-free, and I prefer the Mazda’s styling over that of the GTI (by a tiny margin). The only thing about the Mazda3 is that the wear items seem to go really quickly. We needed a new set of rear brake pads at about 22K miles and the tires had to be replaced at 30K. We didn’t go OEM for the replacements, so we’ll see how long that lasts. Other than that, we’re adamant about the service schedule and the car has been fine.
I’m not sure why depreciation is a factor in your purchase, considering you’re going to keep it for a long while. If you keep the car for as long as your Civic, you’d probably get just as much for it as for any other small sporty car when you’re ready to sell.
My pick is the MS3 for you. It’s not too big, it’s got great power and handling for its size, decent if not great fuel economy, great active and passive safety, and 4 DOORS.
Camaro V6, 300 ponies and a usable backseat all for 22K (unless the dealer is a market mark upper).
Camaro V6, 300 ponies and a usable backseat
that scene could be amusing to watch.
I own a Civic SI
It is our baby mobile
It kicks major ass – get one. You can get them for $20,000, unlike the boosted brethren that are being offered by other manufacturers – not to mention it gets 30+ mpg on the highway.
Just don’t be a douchebag and drive around with the VTAK stickers – get rid of them ASAP.
My car with a 1″ drop and new shoes.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/cretinx/DSC02985.jpg
You are paying cash for this correct?
I mean, you would not be risking your family’s financial future, wasting money on interest charges, adding to the stress of your household (which includes twins already) and all the other bad stuff that comes with a car loan just so that you don’t have to swap cars or instead trade for a different used one?
Okay, so assuming you have CASH –
Take your budget, and look at CPO’s of any of the above suggestions that you find acceptable. Look for the deal that is also fun to drive. Don’t get stuck looking for the right GTI or other car, cruise the net and lots looking for what’s in your budget for purchase, maintenance, insurance, and depreciation that is also fun to drive and makes you happy.
If you don’t have cash –
Swap cars until you do. Trust me, you will gain much, much, much more happiness in the long run. Driving the minivan will not be that bad. If you think it will waste gas, think again. Do the actual math and you will find it’s nearly impossible to justify more interest and depreciation using gas savings. Also, do the math and you will find that by avoiding interest and depreciation until the kids are out of those seats, you will likely be able to save up money for a really nice, fun to drive car that is currently outside your own idea of what’s even possible.
So swap cars within the family, or swap for something you can pay cash for.
Don’t get the Caliber. You could be arrested for littering. I don’ tcare how cheap it is, it’s one fugly car.
@Landcrusher:
“So swap cars within the family, or swap for something you can pay cash for.”
I can’t swap cars. I take them in the A.M. and head to work and the wife picks them up in the P.M. heading home.
@cretinx:
“It kicks major ass – get one. You can get them for $20,000, unlike the boosted brethren that are being offered by other manufacturers – not to mention it gets 30+ mpg on the highway.”
That is why I am considering the Si. I have a dealer quote of $20,536 + tax, title which is less than the other choices I’ve seen. Gives very good fuel economy, high safety rating, excellent resale value and should be very reliable. At the dealer I placed the front seat all the way back and jumped on the back seat and still had room for my 6 foot tall frame so I guess the carseats should fit fine BUT after the EVO and MS3 test-drives the Si is just plain slow.
Decisions, decisions….
I’ll be in a similar situation in a few years when we may have to replace our 2000 Maxima with another vehicle (to complement our 2006 Odyssey).
I’m looking at a 28K budget too…and honestly, I’m looking at a CPO 2006 Lexus LS430. Sure, it’s not so fun to drive, but it’s safe, reliable, and probably gets better gas mileage than my Maxima.
Well, the Maxima handles like a shoe anyway.
How long is your commute?
I’d look at the safety ratings of all the cars you’re considering and check for rear-seat safety.
The safety you sacrifice by getting a small car compared to a midsize car may not offset the extra MPGs.
I won’t comment on the exact car, but will give you (and others in a similar situation) another angle for thought; figure out if your car seats are correct for your vehicle! I’ve had a number of neighbors switch vehicles because their second/third car seats didn’t fit well; frankly buying a 20k+ vehicle to suit a $200-$300 car seat seems a little silly. If the car seats fitting are an issue, take a look at something like a Sunshine Kids Radeon Premier (I think that’s the name/spelling) car seat – significantly narrower then a normal car seat (3 abreast in a Prius!) but made with a steel frame, so much stronger as well.
BTW, I’ve been slinging my daughter in and out of a BMW 3 series Coupe for the last two years, and dropping a “bucket” in for the year prior – frankly it doesn’t bother me in the least. My wife couldn’t muscle the the bucket very well, but she’s fine with my daughter in her Mini Cooper, now that shes in a forward facing seat. Frankly, it can be done – if you really want to drive a particular car.
(For the record, we do have a Land Rover as well, but it’s parked unless we’re hauling extra family/friends/kids around, so this might affect our outlook about putting up with the extra effort for our Coupes).
Don’t get a honda with a manual 6 speed. They have problems with 3rd gear. 2009’s may be okay though.
I’m hauling my twins to and from daycare in a Versa, and while the performance isn’t there, it’s otherwise a very comfortable and pleasant car for the task. Very safe, too, and cheap to insure.
dp-r : I am 6′1 tall, my wife will be picking the twins in the afternoons from daycare in the minivan, the twins are in forward facing carseats and I plan to keep this car for as long as I can. Reliability is extremely important for me as I am use to it by now. My ‘97 Civic has been absolutely problem free in these 12 years requiring only maintenance and minor repairs.
The more I hear, the more I think a Civic or last-generation Accord is what you need. Mostly because Brand loyalty is something you cannot discount no matter how hard you try.
————————–
cretinx : Just don’t be a douchebag and drive around with the VTAK stickers – get rid of them ASAP.
That was epic. If I could give a prize for the best comment in this thread, there’s the winner.
The Si is slow because…?
If it’s slow because it won’t hit 60 mph in under 6 seconds, well, that’s a valid complaint.
If it’s slow because it won’t hit 60 mph in under 7 seconds without making a hell of a racket, then it’s just right… you’ll drive slowly with your family in the car, and only let loose when you’re alone. perfect.
I may be a bit late with this, but a Yaris is a terrible sacrifice in comfort and utility compared to a Civic for a few extra MPGs. A Fit I can understand… a Fit is actually fun to drive and own, and, in some cases, is more practical than a Civic… but a Yaris is just cheap, plasticky and small. Great headroom, but bugger-all space in the back for groceries.
Sorry… but everyone here is absolutely wrong. Really.
If performance and safety are that important to him, the car of choice would be a 2007 Volvo V70R. You can get one with a CPO warranty good for six years and 100,000 miles… but I would simply buy from a private owner instead. The seats are wonderful. The safety is unparalleled, and the depreciation hit has already come in spades.
I’m an enthusiastic father with two young kids… and I approve of this message.
dp-r,
Okay, that was an either or, so the other half would apply, swap for what you can pay cash for.
Mr. Lang has a good suggestion, but it’s not exactly zippy, which sounds like what you want. OTOH, if you can borrow something like a Landcruiser for a week, THEN drive the V70R, you will think it’s got awesome zip.
:)
# cretinx :
April 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I own a Civic SI
It is our baby mobile
It kicks major ass – get one. You can get them for $20,000, unlike the boosted brethren that are being offered by other manufacturers – not to mention it gets 30+ mpg on the highway.
Just don’t be a douchebag and drive around with the VTAK stickers – get rid of them ASAP.
My car with a 1″ drop and new shoes.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/cretinx/DSC02985.jpg
Yes to cretinx’s comment. I was in this situation in January 2008. I was having to get out of my ’93 Prelude SR-V in order to drop my 4 year old and 2 year old off to day care, and have my wife pick them up at the end of the day in our minivan.
I am 6’2″, drive about 90 miles a day on my commute, needed good gas mileage, and had gotten very used to the reliability and fun that my Prelude and before that Integra had given me.
I ended up having a hard look at the MS3 and GTI, but ultimately passed for the reasons that you have mentioned. Fun cars, but no time in my life for reliability drama over the years of ownership that I was looking at.
I ended up picking up a 2006 Acura RSX Type S off lease in order to get the K20 drivetrain w/ 6 speed manual and haven’t looked back. Civic Si coupe was too small and inflexible, but the Si sedan would have been my close 2nd choice and if I had to do it today, may have been my first given the deals out there.
LATCH anchors and access have been no problem and our boys fit into the back without drama or concern. My buddy has a current gen Civic sedan and the added access to the back seat can only be a good thing.
Regarding performance – as you probably know, there is great aftermarket support for the K20/RSX/Si and a few bolt on mods have yielded some fun results. Cold air intake, new wheels and rubber, and a factory A Spec suspension have been fun and affordable mods. Over the next few years I look forward to a high flow cat/header and reflashed Hondata ECU. These mods have been done a la carte when I’ve had funds. Note that I am a 30 something dad and my boy racer days are behind me, but I have found these to be affordable modifications as I am also saving for my kid’s college fund.
Whatever you decide, enjoy the process.
Reliability dramas? Like what? Broken engine mounts… MAF-incompatibility with Mazdaspeed-branded air-intakes… aversion to heat-soak… c’mon, that’s sissy stuff!
That said, I would love a Mazdaspeed3, or a Focus RS… unfortunately, the back-seat of that platform just isn’t child-seat friendly.
Sedans are totally useless at hauling kids. Period. Forget them. You have to go hatchback, mini-van, CUV, or SUV.
Try a Honda Fit. It’s a bit bigger inside than your 12 year old Civic. Okay, a lot bigger, and the trunk will dwarf what you can carry today. The rear seats are way better laid out, and you’ll get two capsules or two front facing baby seats in easily without them touching the front seats.
We have a Sunshine Kids baby seat, which is 17″ wide, and is airline seat compatible. You can fit three of these abreast in pretty much any hatchbook, mini van or SUV. Sedans, I don’t know about as they are totally useless at hauling one kid, let alone two.
The Honda Fit (Jazz) is the better choice for baby seats and getting kids in and out than any Civic as the doors open nearly 90 degrees in the rear. The seat squab is taller, so you don’t have to bend in as much – it’s very nearly at the same height we had in the 09 Town & Country we hired just before leaving the USA.
The back seat has real clearance between the back of the front seats and where your kids feet will be, thus avoiding any issues with feet imprints until they’re into booster seats.
You can cut off the electric windows easily, and the child door lock is easy to work out, and the internal knob far enough away until they’re easily a huge heffer like our baby girl (15 months).
The trunk of the Fit *may* fit the twin’s double stroller – depends on how much it collapses. If it fits in your sedan, it’ll fit in the Fit easily with room to spare. The Fit / Jazz fits in our huge stroller with no issues and has room to spare for groceries, change bag, toys and other essential baby stuff. This may not be an issue if you’re just doing the drop off run, but I bet sometimes it will be.
thanks,
Andrew