What the hell is a “random visit to Tesla”? Is Project Better Place’s Shai Agassi an adherent to the philosophy and practice found in George Cockcroft’s “The Dice Man”? If so, that’s not exactly a better way to run a car company (unless you’re GM). Or perhaps Agassi’s a fan of Andrew “Dice” Clay. If so, Shai should ditch the mermaid joke for something with a bit more punch. Elon Musk sat on a wall. Fuck you! This stuff writes itself. Anyway, Shai’s epiphany: a machine could automatically swap out EV batteries. Kinda like you do with, I dunno, a flashlight. Except the resulting eMiles follow Moore’s law, apparently. Which means EV drivers will be racking-up zero-carbon (a.k.a. “clean electron”) electric miles at two cents a mile by 2020. Did I miss something there? Agassi says this is “fascinating to most people.” Define “most.” [Skip to to 8:36 and you’ll actually hear a non-fictional sentient being say he’s going to save the world.]
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And all the governments of the world will pass legislation mandating standardized battery packs for all cars.
Right.
“When I was at Davos, I thought ‘How could we eliminate the need for oil?’ and I’ve thought about it ever since”. Good to see that the rich and powerful are as trendy-mongering and stupid as the average Starbucks loitering faux-hippie.
Oh wait, that’s not so good to see.
Stein & Paris – is it fun living as irredeemable cynics? My guess is it would be more fun to be constructive.
But just for the record: You do not need a standard battery pack. You just need mass deployment. Renault and Nissan are making multi-billion dollar investments to build these cars. Guess they must be stupid too. Guess it’s you who has the real solution. What was it again?
-Stein passing legislation mandating standard sized battery packs makes good sense. Owners shouldn’t be held hostage to the pricing of unique parts for their particular model.
At the very least, traction batteries should have the same voltage even if their ampacities should vary.
We need to avoid the situation, existing in the smaller scale, that we have with the multiplicity of voltages with electric hand tools. It often turns out to be more propitious to buy a whole new drill when battery replacement time comes. There’s no doubt that standardisation would encourage some manufacturers, regarding the profitability factor, to supply these batteries at commodity pricing levels if the usage population was higher.
Although even standardized voltage may not go far enough. Witness the case of the small format proprietory 12 volt Pb-Acid battery used by the Prius causing owners some alarm at the cost of its replacement.
T2
mikejg2 :
April 14th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Stein & Paris – is it fun living as irredeemable cynics? My guess is it would be more fun to be constructive.
But just for the record: You do not need a standard battery pack. You just need mass deployment. Renault and Nissan are making multi-billion dollar investments to build these cars. Guess they must be stupid too. Guess it’s you who has the real solution. What was it again?
So it’s ‘irredeemably cynical’ to point out the utter stupidity of ‘eliminating the need for oil’ – which is absolutely unfeasible with an economy the size of the US.
And as far as a ‘real solution’, how about this – build Fischer Tropsch refineries in areas with large coal deposits (South Ill and Penn would be ideal for this), build nuclear reactors to power them and produce gasoline and diesel without burning fossil fuels.
Oh wait, coal and nuclear aren’t acceptable to the trend-mongering beautiful people.
Mr. Farago,
Déjà vu! Thanks.
Saad.
I read an article in Wired about this last year http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-09/ff_agassi?currentPage=1 – very ambitious, to say the least. Of course, it’s all about the infrastructure. And the problem of supplying it from a questionable grid as it is. Still, you have to respect the guy when he attracts the believers that he does. Prove that it will work on a smaller scale as he is doing and it may gain traction.
What an enormous scope and mission for a startup (fifth largest in less than a year, I believe). I don’t have high hopes that the cars will be anywhere near fun to drive, but that may not matter to commuters who might be comparing it to sitting on a hard plastic subway seat – if they have a subway.
Back to the infrastructure… The key, of course, is getting backing at the highest governmental levels in order to push this quickly forward. I wouldn’t mind seeing some of that money that went to the AIGs and Wall Street losers go instead to something this ambitious that we taxpayers could actually benefit from directly. Remind you of our highway system?
noreserve,
I don’t have to respect the man for his following, I just have to respect his talent for attracting a following. Seemed to me the TED audience even liked him less than he likes himself.
Anyone done the math on acres needed for his scheme to actually work in the US? I notice that wind farms aren’t serviced by electric trucks and that solar plants don’t all use solar power to run the factories. In fact, the windfarms are all built with components being transported by some pretty big ships and trucks. Not that they don’t have a good payback, but that’s the sort of thing that “believers” often leave out of their equations.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/does-better-place-have-a-better-plan
Hawaii seems to have bought in, along with Israel and Denmark.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10112095-54.html
What the hell is a “random visit to Tesla”?
When you’re both in Palo Alto it’s easy to drop in.
But more convenient than an ICE car? I don’t think so.
Did all the governments of the world mandate a standard milk bottle size? No, they didn’t need to.
Did all the governments of the world mandate a standard tire size? No, they didn’t need to.
As we say in Australia, first in, best dressed. If a company sets up an effective retail distribution network for a given replaceable battery module size then it will become a defacto standard.
Whatever happened to driving for the thrill of it? I’m driving through Texas right now in an EV and am bored out of my head. Wide-open spaces and no way to get there…
We’re talking about a need for mega amounts of “clean electrons” to light any enthusiast’s fire. What are we talking about? Five minutes to the next battery swap shop? I still think we have to get wind to generate hydrogen.
I quote “Shai Agassi wants to put you behind the wheel of an electric car — but he doesn’t want you to sacrifice convenience (or cash) to do it.” What about the sacrifice of the driving experience?
carculture,
Shai Agassi has a dream, and like most H. sapiens, he’s willing to kid himself on some of the details. I mean, having to look for a swapout station when you are almost out of juice? Even in Israel, they will be few and far between, so that any day trips beyond range will require planning. So much for the convenience of ICE. On the other hand, it might be OK for your second car.
Our paradigm of individual passenger cars as primarily luxuries is flawed. They serve a greater functional purpose now than they do a pleasurable purpose.
Here’s a futuristic fantasy picture:
Automobiles would be considered modular items. The drive train would be scalable as would the energy source and passenger areas. For varying distances the energy source would be scalable. A more heavy duty drive train would be available to accommodate heavier payloads. Personal operator modules would be detachable and passenger compartments would be easily swappable. When using the vehicle for daily single person business travel a single or double person passenger compartment could be used. An individual would need to own no more than an operator module which could plug into ANY passenger compartment. His operator module is personalized and where possible automatically adjusts the passenger compartment, drive train and energy consumption to his personal settings as well as records his travel information and energy usage. He might own or rent multiple passenger compartments, drive trains or energy sources, depending on the need at the time. For primarily functional uses, like daily commutes, he would pull up to a mass transit source in his modular single person vehicle, detach his operator module from the passenger compartment get on to a mass transit system and ride it to the metro center for the short walk to the office. If a vehicle is needed during the day a rental vehicle is fitted with his operator module for that brief use. His drive train and energy source which were left at the originating station are re-charged awaiting his return. If desired, more luxurious passenger modules, better drive trains, energy sources, etc could also be available for rent or purchase.
We shouldn’t be buying the farm when all we want or need is a horse and wagon.