The mayor of Duncanville, Texas had a member of the city council arrested last Tuesday for speaking out against the use of red light cameras during an official meeting. The incident took place during the discussion of whether the city should spend $59,000 to make street repairs. Mayor David Green recognized Councilman Paul Ford to speak on the contract item. “Thank you,” Ford said. “I want to let you know that earlier this evening during briefing, Mayor Green threatened me that if he told me to stop talking and I didn’t, he’d have me arrested, and I want to let you know what I told Mayor Green.” Green became outraged and shouted, “Mr Ford, you are out of order. You are not recognized Mr Ford. You need to cease right now.” While Green yelled, Ford continued his brief statement without stopping. . .
“Unlike those thousands of people who are getting red light camera tickets, I will have the opportunity for a jury trial. It will be a jury of my peers and I will confidently put my fate in their hands. And now I’m going to discuss agenda item number three. I will vote against it, and here’s why.”
Before he had a chance to explain that the city could find the money for those necessary street repairs by cutting the city manager’s salary from $179,000 to $160,000 and reducing payments to local chambers of commerce by $40,000, Police Chief Robert Brown grabbed Ford. Ford repeated several times the statement: “Chief Brown, I will not leave voluntarily, but if you believe I am violating the law by discussing this agenda item, I will submit to arrest.”
Brown did not respond. Mayor Green had the audio of the city council video tape turned off as Brown dragged the councilman out of the chamber. Ford ended up hospitalized from injuries sustained during the arrest.
Ford’s comments referenced an earlier, private briefing of city council members where the mayor complained that Ford had attempted to “take control” of past meetings. To stop this, Green announced that he would instruct the city manager to remove any council member who disrupted a meeting. Over the past few council sessions, Ford raised the mayor’s ire by insisting that the city code be amended to allow motorists the option of a jury trial when contesting red light camera citations and by his pointing out that only five percent of the 43,955 red light camera tickets issued in the city went to motorists accused of the straight-through violations most consider to be “red light running.”
“I’m not the one who brought the red light camera scandal to Duncanville,” Ford responded at the private meeting. “I’m the one who brought it to light, but I’m not the one who imposed it on us . . . I recognize that there probably is no city employee in this room who will stand up to you guys . . . Unlike those people who are getting red light camera citations, I will have an opportunity for a jury trial when you arrest me for whatever it is that you’ve discussed, whether it’s disrupting a public meeting or disorderly conduct. I will have a jury trial, and it will be a jury of my peers, not yours. In other words, people who are not getting money from this city. And I will with conscience place my fate in their hands.”
Mayor Green’s expulsion of an elected member of the city council violated standard rules of procedure. Under “Robert’s Rules of Order,” the binding code of conduct for most municipal organizations, Green would not have any authority to have Ford removed for making off-topic comments that lasted less than thirty seconds. The use of force to remove a member is considered an extreme measure and a last resort.
“Although the chair has no authority to impose a penalty or to order an offending member removed from the hall, the assembly has that power,” the Rules state.
Under this set of procedures, a mayor would first have issued a warning to an unruly member and, if ignored, put the question of what to do about it to the entire city council. A majority vote would be required to have a sitting member removed from the chambers after that member is given an opportunity to speak in his own defense. Under Duncanville’s city charter (2.15), only the full council can change the rules of procedure, not the mayor acting alone.
Ford has been released from the hospital but the mayor had a warrant issued for his arrest. Ford announced yesterday his intention to turn himself in. Since March, Ford has attempted to gather 1300 signatures to create a referendum on the red light program in Duncanville.
Patently outrageous. Shame on this “Mayor Green”.
Paul,
Thank you for your courage, your honesty and your willingness to stand up for what is right. You know this is a racket…ie, legally-sanctioned theft and corruption.
I support you most sincerely. Thank you.
Nothing that happens in Texas surprises me anymore. It’s a state that one should avoid for many reasons besides red light cameras. Texas officials are so arrogant they don’t care what the rest of the country or the world thinks of them. Bush II typified the attitude.
On the one hand…if you don’t like red-light cameras…don’t run red lights. It really is, that simple.
On the other hand…with the economy the way it is, I do not deem it fiscally responsible to be spending all that money on the cameras. And that “mayor” is a joke and should step down.
According to that guy’s petition, 85% of that city’s red light tickets are for right-on-red turns. He claims they’ve drawn a white line quite far back from the actual intersection and that’s where the camera gets you.
We have red light cameras at a few intersections where I live, but there are few complaints. The yellows are long and right-on-red is only a ticket if you’re going more than 15 mph. The situation sounds worse in Duncanville.
The mayor and police chief could be looking at a nice lawsuit on this one. They violated their own rules on having him removed.
Ah, the land of the free. Freedom of speech enshrined in the Constitution. Good grief, where are we living?
We need more people willing to stand up like this. Paul Ford is a true public servant.
@97escort:
I recall Bush II being rather magnamimous when the Iraqi reporter threw his shoes at him; Bush II supports freedom of speech (but not assult with shoes).
However, if you are referring to Texas’ reputation of being tough on crime, that sounds like another forum for another time. If you are not, then my apologies for the assumption.
It would be difficult to characterize Texas, Arkansas, California, or Illinois by looking only at Bush, Clinton, Reagan, or Obama, who are all rather irrelevant to this discussion.
But Mayor Green doesn’t understand the First Amendment, and apparently not even basic meeting rules. Mr. Ford didn’t even have a chance to state his case. This story won’t end here.
Incidentally, red light cameras have been shown to increase accidents due to drivers slamming on their brakes to avoid a ticket. So much for Big Brother’s help.
@ 97escort: You are so terribly wrong, you just have no idea. Many city leaders in Texas truly care about their cities, and the people that live in them, and it shows in the way they run their respective municipalities. Any city in any state has the opportunity to have a nut in the Mayor’s office, that’s not something exclusive to Texas. Maybe Texas is a little too conservative for you, and maybe that’s why you think they’re arrogant. Whatever the reason, that’s awfully narrow minded of you to make a blanket statement about every Texas official when you clearly don’t live here, and have no idea what you’re talking about. I happen to like the mayor of my city and think he’s done a damn good job. I can’t imagine anywhere I’d rather live, and a large part of it is because of the way my city is run. Arrogance isn’t usually tolerated in Texas, regardless of what you think.
I don’t have an issue with red light cameras.
What I do have an issue with is setting the time interval to increase revenue and worse, installing cameras and then making an intersection more dangerous resulting in more deaths and injuries.
@ 97escort: You are so terribly wrong, you just have no idea. Many city leaders in Texas truly care about their cities, and the people that live in them, and it shows in the way they run their respective municipalities. Any city in any state has the opportunity to have a nut in the Mayor’s office, that’s not something exclusive to Texas. Maybe Texas is a little too conservative for you, and maybe that’s why you think they’re arrogant. Whatever the reason, that’s awfully narrow minded of you to make a blanket statement about every Texas official when you clearly don’t live here, and have no idea what you’re talking about. I happen to like the mayor of my city and think he’s done a damn good job. I can’t imagine anywhere I’d rather live, and a large part of it is because of the way my city is run. Arrogance isn’t usually tolerated in Texas, regardless of what you think.
What is this, a some kind of “public service announcement” propaganda? Isn’t this the state that has executed more people than any other? Your own statement reeks of the sort of “we are what we are and we don’t give a damn what you think” arrogance the OP was speaking of. Excuse me if not everyone wants to live in a state like that.
kosnofskia
If you don’t like Texas, we have 56 other states you can choose from……
Speaking out of order is not a criminal offense.
Flat out abuse of power our elected officials believe is their God given right. In our small town in MI, our current elected officials do so many illegal things it’s ridiculous. The residents are leaving at an incredible rate, more so then the state’s mass exodus.
That’s a pretty nasty thing to say, chuckR.
So many people are of the opinion that “If you don’t like it, get the hell out”.
…instead of standing up for what’s right…like the Councilman.
That’s it…if you don’t like what’s going on at the “national” level…you too, my friends, can GET THE HELL OUT.
Such a disgusting attitude if I may say so.
@escort
“Nothing that happens in Texas surprises me anymore. It’s a state that one should avoid for many reasons besides red light cameras. Texas officials are so arrogant they don’t care what the rest of the country or the world thinks of them. Bush II typified the attitude.”
Just replace Texas with California and Bush with any governor we IQ challenged folk elect and your statement would then be more right than you could ever imagine.
Not to flame anyone or any state, I wish I could get a good job in Hill country around Austin, but if I get in the mood to read about homicides and shootings and worse, cops killing innocent teenagers and families in their driveways, I know to click on the Houston Chronicle. Its the most reliable source for that sort of thing. Sometimes they even get the right guy and put him away. I don’t see that much about crooked Texas officials in the news, except the cops with the violence. Based on the colorful article, I rank this mayor guy ramming through his revenue cameras and not tolerating dissent as out of bounds and he should answer in court. I will say I’m glad I don’t have to live with a gadfly, myself.
Up here in New England you see some shootings, not so many, you get more about officials actually stealing for personal gain either within the letter of law as they themselves wrote it, or outside it. If you want to read about some guy who is friends with the governor or senate and gets a special bill passed to give him an otherwise illegal pension PLUS a no-show job, click on Boston Globe.
Click on Newsday (LI NY) for cool if scary pictures of recent car accidents, and endless stories of town and school officials getting caught stealing from the till.
In NH and Maine they seem to be honest, if somewhat – well- maybe not stupid but not real smart either.
I’ll take a slow politician over a crooked one or a crooked slow one, any day.
I don’t see what the big deal is with the arrest. It seemed professional and reasonable.
Councilman Ford was arrested in a classic case of civil disobedience. The mayor probably expected some stunt and had the cops ready. I doubt the mayor expected Ford to follow thru. +1 for him having the stones to do so.
The hospitalization reference is vague. ‘The Newspaper’ should have followed up. I’ll throw a bone to the CopHaters out there: Sure, maybe they tuned him up off camera. More likely: the cops were being overly cautious in a CYA move. Although, I hope Ford isn’t taking away from the solid case against cameras by fantasizing about police ‘abuse’.
Ford’ll get his day in court and probably win.
Regional bias is just another form of bigotry, a bit more in fashion, but just as ugly.
This is about the action of one mayor, not an entire state folks, get a grip.
(NYer here, and we’ve got officials like this clown, too)
97escort,
You should check out congressman Ron Paul of Texas. He will change your preseption of Texan law officials. And quite frankly, I think I live in the most crooked state of them all: Illinois
And as for Mayor Green, well he just lost his next election for violating the first amendment.
I’ll reserve judgment. Ford is in his first term (so maybe the voters picked an unknown quantity) but the mayor has been re-elected twice. Maybe the citizens know more about this than we do?
Channel 11 had this report:
Witnesses say an argument between Duncanville City Councilman Paul Ford and Mayor David Green has been brewing for some time. Ford is known to constantly criticize and snipe at the mayor and his staff. Mayor Green is usually bent on keeping council discussions on topic.
From his hospital bed, Ford insists the fall he took as police forcibly escorted him from council chambers was the fault of officers. “I started to fall, and they pushed me down,” he said.
The incident began when Ford left the agenda topic. As promised, Mayor Green ordered police to remove Ford. It was captured both on closed circuit-television and a special police camera.
“I’m holding all of the council to the same rules of procedure,” said Mayor Green. He added that a confrontation had been building because Ford constantly disrupts meetings.
“You’ll find I’ve had to recess meetings, sometimes more than once to try to get him under control so that we can go ahead and conduct the peoples’ business,” Mayor Green said.
He also calls Ford a “mystery man,” full of conspiracy theories.
“The city manager and police chief have met and because of that they have assigned a police officer to Ford any time he comes into the city hall,” said Mayor Green.
Police plan to issue Ford an arrest warrant for disrupting a public meeting.
Ford said he can hardly wait to argue that. “This is so absurd,” Ford said. “The jury is going to see through this thing.”
Maybe Ford is his own worst enemy.
The title of this post is obviously incorrect. The councilmember wasn’t arrested for opposing red-light cameras, he was arrested for disrupting the council meeting. The agenda topic was spending $59K on street repairs, a topic the council member chose not to talk about.
Whether the council member should have been arrested for such a thing or not is a separate question…it seems undemocratic, but I don’t know anything about the prior disruptions mentioned in the post. But the cause plainly wasn’t opposition to red light cameras.
kowsnofskia: “What is this, a some kind of “public service announcement” propaganda? Isn’t this the state that has executed more people than any other?”
Gee, you say that as if it’s a bad thing. Down here in this part of the country, we think executing vicious slimeballs is a public service. But let us know your address, and we’ll see the next mad dog homicidal maniac is moved in next door to you.
ttilley, what’s obvious is the mayor wants the program and the councilman is a thorn in his side.
“The councilmember wasn’t arrested for opposing red-light cameras.”
Technically, yes he was arrested at a meeting on street repairs, but you can’t tell me that the mayor isn’t pissed the councilman’s not going along with his plan.
Mayor David Green – (972) 780-0348
“The councilmember wasn’t arrested for opposing red-light cameras.”
Technically, yes he was arrested at a meeting on street repairs, but you can’t tell me that the mayor isn’t pissed the councilman’s not going along with his plan.
If the agenda topic was street repairs then there isn’t any point, other than making noise, to be going on about red light cameras.
If he’s blocked from getting topics of concern to his constituents on the agenda, including red-light cameras, then that would be what I called “undemocratic”. From this I don’t know whether he even tried or not…he may have, he may not have.
But in any case my point remains that the title of the post is incorrect. He was not arrested for opposing red light cameras.
I looked up the demographics of Duncanville
Population = 38,251
30% below driving age
If all others licensed then lets assume 26,775 drivers (this of course would not be the case).
Article says 43,955 red-light tickets issued.
That’s a whole lotta enforcement action down there.
As government at all levels gets more desperate for money I guess the only response is to drive less, spend less, do more things yourself and in other ways minimize what you feed the beast.
This seems like a clear case for FBI jurisdiction. First, they need to investigate any financial relationship between the Mayor and the company that provides the cameras.
Second, as stated in the article, it should be up to the governing body to discipline their own. If they vote to remove the councilman, he could then be fined for not leaving the meeting.
The police should also be held accountable to know when and where someone can be arrested.
All in all, this is a very ugly story and I can guarantee it will show up internationally. This on top of Texas’ reputation for railroading people into prison and even death, is just sad.
All I want to know is, since when do cities have both a Mayor and a Manager?
I thought cities either had the Mayor-Council system, where the Mayor is the executive and the Council is the legislature, or the Council-Manager system, where the Council is the legislature and they appoint a Manager to act as an executive on their behalf.
Well now, this kind of puts a fun freedom of speech spin on the whole oppressive government topic!
Just remember, folks: The founding fathers wrote the second amendment in case government tries to take away the first amendment. I see it’s already beginning, and that’s not so much fun. Methinks people are gonna get hurt; but then they always do during revolutions.
Which reminds me, is anybody here planning to go to one of the hundreds of “Tea Parties” across the nation on April 15th?
rastus
I’m sorry you misinterpreted my remark
I do hope that mayor goes down in flames, or in a recall at least.
But I don’t know what kosnofskia’s reference to the Texas death penalty has to do with petty local politics, though.
And FWIW, I prefer that those inmates get, say, Angola Penitentiary instead, for the rest of their natural lives, with no parole.
Duncanville’s red light program IS absolute bollocks. I’ve been ticketed three times at different intersections, none of them for straight through, but for right on reds. The first two came right after another. Even if no cop would have stopped me, I had broken the literal letter of the law, so I just paid the fines and told myself I’d be more careful. Then the third one showed up and after I saw the video, I thought, BS.
Tried to go to the hearing, but they wouldn’t see me because the car wasn’t registered under my name. I bought the car and registered it to my mother because I spend 10-11 months of the year overseas. Just so happens, my mother is not even in the US, but overseas herself. So here’s a situation where neither the alleged perpetrator of the crime (me) nor the owner of the vehicle in question who could not possibly committed the violation because she’s on the other side of the planet have ANY recourse.
I talked to my mother about this and she’s been ticketed a few times and so has my father, every instance for right on red. So has more or less everyone I know who lives in that area.
I just returned here and it’s gotten bad enough to the point where people simply won’t make right turns on red at known intersections.
I really couldn’t give two shakes of a rat’s tail about the local politics but I applaud Mr. Ford for making an issue of something that every citizen knows in his gut is just plain wrong.
Every time I come back to the states, things get a little but more off kilter. I split my time in the US between MD and TX and having just read about the MD speed cameras, I wonder more and more if this is the country I want to raise my kids.
shave the mustache hitler
This sounds like the Politburo in the good old USSR when the moment anybody spoke out in opposition, they were arrested and later imprisoned or executed. This mayor seems like he is on a major power trip.
Maybe this is another way of telling us taxpayers to “grab our ankles”…
BOHICA!!!!
Hey, the red light cameras won’t be a problem for long, I suspect. That’s Texas, after all, with a rifle in every rack in every pickup truck. “Be vewy, vewy quiet. I’m hunting camewas…”
Jaywalker :
Hey, the red light cameras won’t be a problem for long, I suspect. That’s Texas, after all, with a rifle in every rack in every pickup truck. “Be vewy, vewy quiet. I’m hunting camewas…”
Or – as my friend from Arizona says:
“In Arizona, irate drivers blast away at traffic cameras with pistols and shotguns…”
Local politics is just so much fun to watch.
Seriously, people complain about corruption and abuse of power at the Federal level, and fret about big government and it’s impinging on freedom. Yet you will never find a more wretched hive of scum an villainy** than at in local politics.
** Had to get the Obi-wan quote in there
Look, folks, it’s “right on red after stop.” And “stop” means the wheels aren’t turning, if only for a millisecond. The Type A’s or half-engaged drivers are bad about slowing only enough to keep the tires on the wheels.
When I’m in the Dallas area (usually it’s on the north side, where there are more Type A personalities) I know to leave plenty of time for traffic to clear an intersection before entering it. A yellow light ahead seems to be only an order to mash the throttle, on the assumption that if you enter an intersection at 40+ it doesn’t matter that the light has already turned red.
But everything considered, I’d still rather drive in Dallas than in Boston.
Nothing that happens in Texas surprises me anymore. It’s a state that one should avoid… Texas officials are so arrogant they don’t care what the rest of the country or the world thinks of them.
Isn’t this the state that has executed more people than any other? Your own statement reeks of the sort of “we are what we are and we don’t give a damn what you think” arrogance the OP was speaking of. Excuse me if not everyone wants to live in a state like that.
This on top of Texas’ reputation for railroading people into prison and even death, is just sad.
My, my, my, the depth and breadth of ignorance about Texas/Texans is truly stunning to behold – as are the vibes of hate and bigotry.
Overall, I find Texas politics to be the least corrupt of any state that I have lived in except Utah (I’ve resided in California [three times], Maryland [twice], Virginia, Utah, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Hawaii). By the way, Hawaii is by far the most corrupt.
When Texas has corruption problems they are typically in the big population islands of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio (I’ve spent years living in each of these cities) where, incidentally, the politicians are largely left of center.
In the rest of the state, incidents like what occurred in Duncanville are anomalies. In this case the mayor will likely (and rightly) lose his job.
PS – I have no fear that I might be railroaded into prison or, shudder, death row.
When Texas has corruption problems they are typically in the big population islands of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio (I’ve spent years living in each of these cities) where, incidentally, the politicians are largely left of center
Correction: they’re left of centre for Texas.
Signed,
An Actual Leftist
Correction: they’re left of centre for Texas.
No, I’m not talking about conservative southern Democrats. I’m talking full on bona fide big government leftist liberals. We actually do have some of them down here too.
Apparently the Mayor and Police Chief have set aside large parts of their budgets to fight the ensuing lawsuits from this incident…
I’m talking full on bona fide big government leftist liberals. We actually do have some of them down here too.
Really? Last time I was down there I found a few in Austin, but that was it.
Admittedly, I didn’t look very hard.
Here in Michigan, virtually nobody stops at stop signs any more unless they can’t pull out in front of you without some chance you’d be able to stop in time before slamming into them.
Plus the law (‘the law is an ass’) states that if you hit someone in the rear of the car, you are at fault and will be ticketed.
I have installed air horns on my cars. Nice and loud.
I have traded off all of my prior vehicles for cars with side air bags, curtain air bags, ABS and the robotic assist brakes which ‘realize’ when you are doing a panic stop to enable full braking.
I’ve sold off my classic 1962 Corvair since the only collapsible steering column is called ‘the human sternum’.
As for politicians like this Mayor who thinks he can simply constantly have his way and to hell with the rule of law, look no further than the white house in the current, prior, and prior administrations to understand where that idea might have filtered down from.
Nuff said.
Anyone wanting to come to Texas is welcome, and anyone not wanting to is welcome not to. We have plenty of people coming as it is, and while I don’t want to say they are not welcome, it wouldn’t bother most of us natives if the rush were to ease off a bit.
The big states make the news much more than the smaller ones. In this case, it’s because we have more than our fair share of mayors (and therefore nutbag mayors). I can’t even tell you how many cities and towns we have, but its a lot more than most states.
I suspect the mayor will lose his seat at or before the next election, and that will be the correct outcome. It will be the only outcome that helps prevent a reoccurrence because for some reason folks who run for mayor are more afraid of losing their office than going to jail.
Yet you will never find a more wretched hive of scum an villainy** than at in local politics.
The local level represents one the breeding grounds for the eventual federal scum and villainy…
Gotta start somewhere…
Thanks to all those who posted their expressions of support. The article is the most accurate I have seen so far, with one exception. In the briefing session, I did not say, “And I will with conscience place my fate in their hands.” I said, “And I will with confidence place my fate in their hands.”
For more information, and for a reprint of a two-part series of columns on Red Light Cameras I wrote for the Today Newspaper,go to PaulFordReports.com.
Paul